Lateralus is a hell of a lot better than 10,000 Days...it's a lot more consistant and doesn't go into all these weird trance-like timbres...

For me compairing 10000 days to Lateralus they are about equal, for me it works this way, the good songs on 10000 days are amazing, but the not so good songs absolutely boring, whereas Lateralus is a steady "Just OK" throughout the entire album.

Written by Doc G. on 27.03.2007 at 08:54

For me compairing 10000 days to Lateralus they are about equal, for me it works this way, the good songs on 10000 days are amazing, but the not so good songs absolutely boring, whereas Lateralus is a steady "Just OK" throughout the entire album.

Yes I agree in that both albums are very similar. However, for me both albums are great. No bad songs. Maybe "not so good" songs, but not bad songs.

Take Lateralus. The most boring song for me in that album is "Faaip Dejoaid" And it's not liek a song song, it's one of those odd interludes they do. In 10.000 Days teh most boring song is "Viginti Tres". Once again the closing "song". 5 minutes of static.

They're both great albums. Not that it really matters, but they won a Grammy for a Lateralus song (Schism). Both with great musikc and lyrics, 10.000 Days artwork is art (I bought it on sunday, with the lenses for 3D view) and so is Lateralus. Both made by Alex Grey. Of course, that's my oppinion. They're Tool's best albums, IMO.

Anyone here going to see them May 29 in Tampa, Florida? I've got my ticket; cost me $64.00 since I ordered it online but I'm sure it will be well worth it. This will be my first time seeing them in concert so I'm pretty excited.

Written by [user id=1230] on 05.04.2007 at 17:53

Anyone here going to see them May 29 in Tampa, Florida? I've got my ticket; cost me $64.00 since I ordered it online but I'm sure it will be well worth it. This will be my first time seeing them in concert so I'm pretty excited.

ooohhhh I hate you!!! haha, no I just envy you a lot dude. I hope you have fun, and have a great time.

Written by +{Jonas}+ on 05.04.2007 at 02:11

Written by Doc G. on 27.03.2007 at 08:54

For me compairing 10000 days to Lateralus they are about equal, for me it works this way, the good songs on 10000 days are amazing, but the not so good songs absolutely boring, whereas Lateralus is a steady "Just OK" throughout the entire album.

Yes I agree in that both albums are very similar. However, for me both albums are great. No bad songs. Maybe "not so good" songs, but not bad songs.

Take Lateralus. The most boring song for me in that album is "Faaip Dejoaid" And it's not liek a song song, it's one of those odd interludes they do. In 10.000 Days teh most boring song is "Viginti Tres". Once again the closing "song". 5 minutes of static.

They're both great albums. Not that it really matters, but they won a Grammy for a Lateralus song (Schism). Both with great musikc and lyrics, 10.000 Days artwork is art (I bought it on sunday, with the lenses for 3D view) and so is Lateralus. Both made by Alex Grey. Of course, that's my oppinion. They're Tool's best albums, IMO.

I don't think you can really even say Tool albums sound very much alike. Opiate is a really hard rocking album with a lot of edge to it. Aenima is a huge progression in creating sonic soundscapes, Undertow is definately inbetween both of those in terms of musicality.

All in all, I think Tool does a very good job of shifting from album to album, because even though each album definately sounds like Tool, they sound like themselves in very different ways. Checkout how the albums are driven. Early albums have a lot of guitar driving the band, then on Aenima there is without a doubt a complete focus on drums, and then when you get to Lateralus, there is just so much bass making up so many of the songs' main melodies.

Written by +{Jonas}+ on 05.04.2007 at 02:11

Not that it really matters, but they won a Grammy for a Lateralus song (Schism).

I didn't know that, but they deserved the Grammy.

BTW I see what both of you guys are talking about, and well, for me Tool has had a very good progression in their career, I don't know why some people say that all of their albums seem like one very long song. The best for me is "Lateralus", the one album that got me into them and because "Parabol/Parabola" are my favorite Tool songs.

Written by AtLossForWords on 09.04.2007 at 06:19

Written by +{Jonas}+ on 05.04.2007 at 02:11

Written by Doc G. on 27.03.2007 at 08:54

For me compairing 10000 days to Lateralus they are about equal, for me it works this way, the good songs on 10000 days are amazing, but the not so good songs absolutely boring, whereas Lateralus is a steady "Just OK" throughout the entire album.

Yes I agree in that both albums are very similar. However, for me both albums are great. No bad songs. Maybe "not so good" songs, but not bad songs.

Take Lateralus. The most boring song for me in that album is "Faaip Dejoaid" And it's not liek a song song, it's one of those odd interludes they do. In 10.000 Days teh most boring song is "Viginti Tres". Once again the closing "song". 5 minutes of static.

They're both great albums. Not that it really matters, but they won a Grammy for a Lateralus song (Schism). Both with great musikc and lyrics, 10.000 Days artwork is art (I bought it on sunday, with the lenses for 3D view) and so is Lateralus. Both made by Alex Grey. Of course, that's my oppinion. They're Tool's best albums, IMO.

I don't think you can really even say Tool albums sound very much alike. Opiate is a really hard rocking album with a lot of edge to it. Aenima is a huge progression in creating sonic soundscapes, Undertow is definately inbetween both of those in terms of musicality.

All in all, I think Tool does a very good job of shifting from album to album, because even though each album definately sounds like Tool, they sound like themselves in very different ways. Checkout how the albums are driven. Early albums have a lot of guitar driving the band, then on Aenima there is without a doubt a complete focus on drums, and then when you get to Lateralus, there is just so much bass making up so many of the songs' main melodies.

I agree with you in all you said my friend, i agree completely in your apreciation of thir first albums, and like you said "Tool does a very good job of shifting from album to album", but that doesn't remove the fact that Lateralus and 10.000 days are similar.

i think lataralus is one of the most original albums in the 21st century with out a doubt

For me, the best album by them is definitely "Aenima", maybe even the best album of the 90s. There's something about the sound in "Lateralus" that makes it inferior to "Aenima", "Lateralus" sounds a bit sterile maybe.
I also enjoy "10000 days" enormously, especially "Jambi" and "Rosetta Stoned". Some say the latter is a load of wankery and I even can't argue against that but it sounds simply so good, especially the vocal climax in the end.

It's rather hard to justify, but for me, I have never experienced someone as arrogant as a Tool fan. Tool fans will walk onto progarchives and simply say nothing but "Lateralus is the best album ever". You wonder why someone would arrogantly walk in and say that. People find their lyrics so astonishing. That really makes me wonder if those certain people have even really heard a real progressive rock band. The Fibonacci sequence is something so simple, it is nothing but a sequence where the previous two numbers add up to the following one. That is just absolutely... unamazing. Also @Metal Blade, how can you think an album is amazing if you don't like all the songs? Sorry but that makes no sense.

It isn't really amazing that they use the fibonacci sequence. I prefer to call it original. But the thing is that people start calling it amazing that they've used it, but to me it's just the song that came out as a result that I really like. So if they used the fibonacci sequence for it or not, it is just a great song.
And I don't mind if you don't like them, MaidenVarius, really, and I understand your point. But understand that there are a lot of people who do appreciate Tool a lot and don't dig as deep as the Tool fanboys you're talking about.
And yes, Lateralus is there best album, but not the best album ever. For me there is no best album ever.

By the way, Tool really had done some nice innovative things. Like passing the job for a melody to another band member each song, same goes for the rhythmn. It may sound quite simple, but I haven't heard that kind of stuff in a lot of progmetal bands.

Written by [user id=823] on 27.04.2007 at 04:02

It's rather hard to justify, but for me, I have never experienced someone as arrogant as a Tool fan. Tool fans will walk onto progarchives and simply say nothing but "Lateralus is the best album ever". You wonder why someone would arrogantly walk in and say that. People find their lyrics so astonishing. That really makes me wonder if those certain people have even really heard a real progressive rock band. The Fibonacci sequence is something so simple, it is nothing but a sequence where the previous two numbers add up to the following one. That is just absolutely... unamazing. Also @Metal Blade, how can you think an album is amazing if you don't like all the songs? Sorry but that makes no sense.

First of all, pretty much all Prog fans I find arrogant and pretentious. Secondly an album can be amazing based on the good songs that are on it, just because he desnt like every single song on the album doesnt mean its not amazing.

Aenima is easily my favorite album by Tool, and one of my five favorite all-time albums. Undertow and Opiate are also great, although Lateralus didn't do much for me. Haven't heard 10000 days, since it apparently sounds like Lateralus.
And I can't stand Perfect Circle.

There is more to the usage of the Fibonacci sequence than lyrics or lyrical cadence. The sequence can be used to completely re-order the tracks on the album and discover that this new sequence of songs flows seamlessly. That's pretty freaking cool as far as I'm concerned.

Maiden, we get it. You don't like Tool fans. But please tell me how you just entering this forum and arrogantly making sweeping generalizations regarding the arrogance of Tool fans makes you any better?

Pot, meet kettle.

Sorry to be the token idiot here, but what is all this talk about Fibonacci? I studied that in college with technical analysis for financial instruments, although I have no idea that concept could be used in music (although a music student would probably be baffled that the concept could be used in trading stocks).

Written by theflyingmachine on 17.05.2007 at 23:24

Sorry to be the token idiot here, but what is all this talk about Fibonacci? I studied that in college with technical analysis for financial instruments, although I have no idea that concept could be used in music (although a music student would probably be baffled that the concept could be used in trading stocks).

Might have to break this into two posts for you.

From: http://www.bofe.org/overthinking.htm

To me, Tool's Lateralus is the most amazing piece of music ever composed. I think Tool deliberately wanted to give their fans something truly amazing, but wanted them to find it on their own. "Recognize this as a holy gift..." At first, I thought that the song Lateralus was about tripping acid - discovering true color by seperating the body from the mind. At first listen, I imagined the bending envelope as an intense visual. After becoming more familiar with the track, however, I had reformed my interpretation to something broader: think deeper. Lateralus, perhaps because it is the album's "title track", serves as the central clue for a puzzle that a friend of mine had read about somewhere on the internet. "All I know is that there is a different order for the songs - something about two spirals. Oh yeah, and thirteen is in the middle." After scavenging through endless google search results, I gave up on finding more about this 'alternate order'.

Intent to figure the album out, and very curious about the spirals - I put on the proverbial 'thinking cap'. I understood how the spirals could have a lot of significance, in that the album's title track offers the inspiring, "swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human..........And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been. We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been."

In my internet scavenging, I had read one review, written by a drummer, who mentioned that Danny Carey's drum beat formed a fibonacci sequence during the song Lateralus. A drummer myself, I decided to get out the graph paper and follow Danny. I can't play like he can, but at least I can hear everything he's doing, and thus was able to construct the drum tabulature. Sure enough, Danny repeats a Fibonacci sequence through the number 13: 1,1,2,3,5,8,13. After 13, he starts again with 1. Bringing in my Algebra 2 knowledge of the Fibonacci sequence, when the equation for the Fibonacci sequence (which I don't actually know) is graphed, it forms a sprial whose vertex depends on the number at which the sequence begins.

Coincidence?

I began to think not.

I had already known of Danny's obsession with sacred geometry and am familiar with Bob Frissell's book, Nothing in This Book Is True, But It's Exactly How Things Are , so the significance of what I had stumbled upon had actually begun to settle in. This is where I just had to play with Lateralus. I had doodled a few spirals in the corners of my graph paper, and in doing so made the first important connection to Lateralus. I knew that if the tracks were in fact intended to be heard in a different order, "Parabol" and "Parabola" would have to go together. In drawing my spirals, I had begun with a vertex and 'spiraled' outwards. After writing the numbers 1 through 13 linearly, I could immediately see that Parabol and Parabola would have to be the middle of my spiral (in that 13 / 2 = 6.5). I drew a simple arrow between 6 and 7 and then pondered the next pair. At first, I actually drew a spiral connecting pairs of numbers whose sum equaled 13 (the number of songs on the album).

This, however, left the last track in the same position and without anything to connect to. At this time, I had used my copy of Lateralus and Cool Edit Pro to take out the silences between tracks and put the songs in the following order: 6,7,5,8,4,9,3,10,2,11,1,12,13.

The transition from Parabola into Schism blew my mind, as the plucks, probably dismissed by listeners as a drawn out rant of an ending, perfectly transition into the beginning of Schism. When you count out beats as the strings are plucked, Schism resumes with the same time signature and tempo - mirroring the progression of notes.

The transition from Schism into Ticks & Leeches is equally intriguing. Schism ends with strong double-kick bass and tom smacks, and Ticks & Leeches begins with what many would call a 'tribal' drum beat. The beat at the very start of Ticks & Leeches is slightly different every subsequent time it is repeated - the measures are two beats longer. Yup - you guessed it - those two beats are ACTUALLY the last two beats of Schism.

I can honestly say that I never understood the album's fourth track, Mantra until reordering the album's songs. What I had originally heard as whale calls now had begun to resemble the worst imaginable dry heaves - or a stylized choking. Fitting, seeing as how the last line in Ticks & Leeches is "I hope you choke." After this transition, none of those following it really seemed to make much sense.

I certainly didn't like that Disposition and Reflection had been separated - as they sound quite good when played sequentially on the album. This was the only real roadblock in my disciphering of the Holy Gift.

Then I had remembered what my friend had told me - 13 was in the middle.

At the time, probably just wanting to believe that there was more to this cd, I had equated this to the positioning of the song "Intermission" on the previous release, Ænema. For the song to be in the 'middle' of the album it would have to be the seventh track in sequence, here having six tracks on either side of it.

So I inserted Faaip de Oiad after Lateralus, and almost peed my pants when I discovered that (ever-so-faintly) the fading tone of the last note of Lateralus could be heard in beginning of Faaip de Oiad, and how the distortion of the guitars at the tail end of Lateralus resembled, and later transitioned seamlessly into, the static at the beginning of Faaip de Oiad.

The lyrics of Lateralus justify this break in the spiral, almost instructing: "spiral out, keep going, spiral out, keep going."

I went back to Lateralus to find the next clue. In Danny Carey's amazingly competent Fibonacci sequence, he had stopped at 13 and gone back to 1.

This is what I chose to do to finish the sequence. A second spiral was now constucted, and the order for the Holy Gift now became 6,7,5,8,4,9,13,1,12,2,11,3,10.

Already many of you are probably fascinated at what I have revealed to you, but I can not even begin to tell you what this new order has opened up for me. The beauty of Lateralus is very, very fragile and has to be viewed with a very open mind. It can also be different when looked at from different points of view.

Aside from the fact that the new order of the songs places them in an order where they flow together nicely - often ending and resuming on the same notes or within the same progression, and some times - in the case of Lateralus into Faaip de Oiad and The Grudge into Triad - even overlapping (though admittedly sound much better when actually electronically overlapped, this is kind of cheating. Consider this a hint, however, if you plan on doing this yourself), the two spirals help to tell a story that every Tool fan should hear.

In the interest of not boring the only casually intrigued, I will try to keep this very brief. I would also recommend familiarizing yourselves with Frissell's book (yeah - the one I mentioned earlier). I consider Parabol and Parabola to be quite expository. Maynard wants us to know that no matter what happens, we must all know that this is not our only existance. Our very minds and the contents of our subconscious are intended to be immortal, and if we accept this into our lives (be it because of personal or religious reasons), it will be so. As such, pain is an illusion.

At first, I called it "The Lateralus Prophecy" (for reasons you will soon understand), but I have since decided to call the 'reordered' version of Lateralus "The Holy Gift". As Maynard says, "Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing," I take the word "this" to mean much more than just his simple cautioning. Since Parabola is the second track of the Holy Gift, it can be considered at the beginning (esp. considering the context of it's duality with Parabol), and as such, I interpret Maynard's words as more than just clever lyrics in a song. They are a plead for his listeners to listen to everything he has to say and truly celebrate the chance of immortality offered throughout. I would be lying if I said that each song has a specific translation.

On the contrary, Tool's music is designed to make you think, not say something specific. It must be treated like great literature - much is hidden contextually. I will elude to Geometric-Drumming's previous post, where he explains the time signatures of Schism: "It represents the title...it's arranged in 12/8 time which is SPLIT into 5/8 and 7/8 - which only really FITS as you PUT THE PIECES BACK TOGETHER."

Where Geometric-Drumming claims Schism as his favorite Tool song, I have heard some fans say that it was a retched pick for the album's only single - but I think it was brilliant. Not to downplay the interpretations of those who have posted before me (in fact, I agree with much of what %BlueSoulRobot% has to say), but I think that to the casual listener who knows nothing of Tool, it can be a powerful invitation.

Think about it - a lot of dingbats with MTV and a radio would walk around with the words "I know the pieces fit" in their heads. I wonder how many of them took the time to put the pieces back together to (re)discover what is trying to be communicated.

I welcome any feedback. I would love to share interpretations of the songs via email - just too lengthy to post here.

I would like to offer the following advice: DO NOT use MP3s to digitally reorder Lateralus. A lot of VERY IMPORTANT information is encoded on the actual cd. Ever notice how everyone who has lost or broken that cd has IMMEDIATELY gone out and bought a new copy? I know I have. It's because there are things encoded on the factory pressing of the cd that are lost in the mp3 compression process and any direct copy onto a cd-r. If you want to do it, do it right - I can't stress how important this is. Use the cda tracks as you put it together and maintain all audio fidelity using professional mixing software.

There's a Fibonacci in Maynard's lyrics, specifically the syllables:

black [1]

then [1]

white are [2]

all I see [3]

in my infancy [5]

red and yellow then came to be [8]

reaching out to me [5]

lets me see [3]

there is [2]

so [1]

much [1]

more and [2]

beckons me [3]

to look through to these [5]

infinite possibilities [8]

as below so above and beyond I imagine [13]

drawn outside the lines of reason [8]

push the envelope [5]

watch it bend [3]

I suppose it's not actually a true Fibonacci, since it does reverse itself.

the Fibonacci Sequence. It's basically a string of numbers that when you add a number to the number before it, you get the next number. Starting with the numbers 0 and 1. 0+1=1, so the set now looks like this; 0 1 1. You take the 1 and add the previous number (1) and you get 2. The sequence looks like this; 0 1 1 2. Now you take the 2 and add the previous number and get 3. Now you have 0 1 1 2 3. When you add the 3 and the 2 you get 5. 0 1 2 3 5. 5+3=8. 0 1 1 2 3 5 8. The process continues.

That's freak!! But well, everyone knows that Maynard James is a very intelligent dude.

very impressive post. I had to read it a couple of times to fully absorb it. Lateralus never got the respect from my stereo that the previous three albums got, but I am going to check it out again and listen for the influences that you mentioned.

not my observations - i copied it from the site listed at the beginning of that long first post.

You shouldn't have said that. I was already going to hail you as a hero, since you found this out. Oh well.

Never even took the time to check out Tool. But this surely made me interested.

Lol. Weird that this kind of theories made you interested.
I'm not saying it isn't interesting, but it's just that only a second thing for me.
I mean I really like Lateralus, but I put all the songs in that different order (with the silences removed) and it didn't really appeal to me.
I don't know what makes it so special, but I just don't hear the magic, if that's supposed to happen.
Maybe I'm just used to the ordening of the original CD.

Well, this band is pretty much 'out of my league'. For from what I usually listen to. (Though that is expanding more and more with non-metal).

So it needs something 'special' for a band like this to grab my attention.

Yeah, okay. No offense intended.

Of course not, I didn't take it as offensive.

Lateralus is one of my favorite albums of all time. Amazing band. They are great live too.

I went to the Tool concert on May 29th, it was in the Sundome which is this large sports stadium on my college campus (University of South Florida, in Tampa) where the big sports games are usually held, like football and such. Tool was really awesome; their support band was Melt-Banana (a Japanese noise rock band) was not so awesome. Sorry I have no photos; there were strict rules about no flash photography or cameras (everyone had to be searched before entering the building) and if you got caught they wouldn't return your camera after they confiscated it!

Here is Tool's setlist:

Jambi
Stinkfist
Forty-six & 2
The Pot
Schism(ext)
Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned
Right in Two
Intension (intro) for Wings for Marie Pt.1
Wings for Marie Pt. 2 (10,000 days)
Lateralus (ext)
Vicarious

It was really great. I hear this is typical for Maynard, but the only things he said to the audience was, "Hello, Florida!" in the beginning and "Thanks very much" at the end. Of course, he stayed towards the back of the stage near the drums the whole time and for the most part he was dressed like a cowboy, except for when he had his hat off, then you could see his Mohawk.

Also typical of their concerts from what I hear, they had a spectacular laser light show. As you all have previously mentioned they're really into the sacred geometry thing, so all the patterns that were projected on the stage and the walls were all these really cool geometric designs (I even caught a few occult glyphs in there too).

I wound up with stadium seats and unfortunately I was stuck way up high on the left side, but luckily I was near the balcony so I could still see what was going on. The row behind me was full of drunken rednecks, and one of them wound up toppling over and falling down two rows!!!

Overall it was a fun show, and if anyone else here likes Tool and you haven't seen them live yet I really suggest you do. It's worth the money to get in and trust me, you're in for a treat.

Written by Doc G. on 05.05.2007 at 04:56

Written by [user id=823] on 27.04.2007 at 04:02

It's rather hard to justify, but for me, I have never experienced someone as arrogant as a Tool fan. Tool fans will walk onto progarchives and simply say nothing but "Lateralus is the best album ever". You wonder why someone would arrogantly walk in and say that. People find their lyrics so astonishing. That really makes me wonder if those certain people have even really heard a real progressive rock band. The Fibonacci sequence is something so simple, it is nothing but a sequence where the previous two numbers add up to the following one. That is just absolutely... unamazing. Also @Metal Blade, how can you think an album is amazing if you don't like all the songs? Sorry but that makes no sense.

First of all, pretty much all Prog fans I find arrogant and pretentious. Secondly an album can be amazing based on the good songs that are on it, just because he desnt like every single song on the album doesnt mean its not amazing.

People call their albums masterpieces then go and bash certain songs. By definition a masterpiece is something that is perfect in everyway, so how does that make sense. It also sorta boggles my mind how you can think an album is amazing if you dont like select songs, that really makes no sense to me. I suppose I should of used the word masterpiece instead of amazing though, so it is my fault there.

Written by [user id=1230] on 05.06.2007 at 00:52

I went to the Tool concert on May 29th, it was in the Sundome which is this large sports stadium on my college campus (University of South Florida, in Tampa) where the big sports games are usually held, like football and such. Tool was really awesome; their support band was Melt-Banana (a Japanese noise rock band) was not so awesome. Sorry I have no photos; there were strict rules about no flash photography or cameras (everyone had to be searched before entering the building) and if you got caught they wouldn't return your camera after they confiscated it!

Here is Tool's setlist:

Jambi
Stinkfist
Forty-six & 2
The Pot
Schism(ext)
Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned
Right in Two
Intension (intro) for Wings for Marie Pt.1
Wings for Marie Pt. 2 (10,000 days)
Lateralus (ext)
Vicarious

It was really great. I hear this is typical for Maynard, but the only things he said to the audience was, "Hello, Florida!" in the beginning and "Thanks very much" at the end. Of course, he stayed towards the back of the stage near the drums the whole time and for the most part he was dressed like a cowboy, except for when he had his hat off, then you could see his Mohawk.

Also typical of their concerts from what I hear, they had a spectacular laser light show. As you all have previously mentioned they're really into the sacred geometry thing, so all the patterns that were projected on the stage and the walls were all these really cool geometric designs (I even caught a few occult glyphs in there too).

I wound up with stadium seats and unfortunately I was stuck way up high on the left side, but luckily I was near the balcony so I could still see what was going on. The row behind me was full of drunken rednecks, and one of them wound up toppling over and falling down two rows!!!

Overall it was a fun show, and if anyone else here likes Tool and you haven't seen them live yet I really suggest you do. It's worth the money to get in and trust me, you're in for a treat.

Damn, that set list is slightly disappointing. You would think they would have the Parabol/Parabola song on there...

Sounds like it was still a good show though.