Since the communist party has dissolved after the 90ies then I assume that Emiglia-Romagna isn't socialist as it used to be.....but I assume if they still support left-wing parties there.....
I wasn't speaking of comparing communism and capitalism here....I was just trying to prove that communism doesn't equal "evil"....

Plus I'd say that for instance if to compare the Estonian society which was communist earlier and is now supposedly capitalist society...I'd say that the situation we have here at the moment isn't especially lovely....our so called capitalist system of "glorious freedom" is completely forgetting bout these now elderly people who retained our nationality and traditions during the terror waves of the USSR....these peoples survived the oppressions of Stalin(who wasn't a communist but a mere Georgian arsehole who wished to fulfill his own selfish goals)...they established their lives and built up the towns and society after the war....they survived all bad things and managed to get a LIFE worth living....with our now "capitalist" regime these people are called "filthy poor people" and the attitude is "Vote for us, we'll give you money" and since half of the society is so gullible they vote and the result is that the government are willing to rob us of all the money...just to impose more taxes and to make retirement sums smaller...

Written by Ernis on 01.02.2008 at 23:46

Since the communist party has dissolved after the 90ies then I assume that Emiglia-Romagna isn't socialist as it used to be.....but I assume if they still support left-wing parties there.....
I wasn't speaking of comparing communism and capitalism here....I was just trying to prove that communism doesn't equal "evil"....

Plus I'd say that for instance if to compare the Estonian society which was communist earlier and is now supposedly capitalist society...I'd say that the situation we have here at the moment isn't especially lovely....our so called capitalist system of "glorious freedom" is completely forgetting bout these now elderly people who retained our nationality and traditions during the terror waves of the USSR....these peoples survived the oppressions of Stalin(who wasn't a communist but a mere Georgian arsehole who wished to fulfill his own selfish goals)...they established their lives and built up the towns and society after the war....they survived all bad things and managed to get a LIFE worth living....with our now "capitalist" regime these people are called "filthy poor people" and the attitude is "Vote for us, we'll give you money" and since half of the society is so gullible they vote and the result is that the government are willing to rob us of all the money...just to impose more taxes and to make retirement sums smaller...

Yeah, I understand what you mean. But you have to remember, just like you said, "Communism doesn't equal evil." The exact same can be said of Capitalism used in a Republic. We have to remember that few things are inherently evil, it's man that corrupts and misuses the ideas that would naturally work under a morally healthy society. (Let's not even get started on morals, or you can just shoot me.)

Hobbot - Emiglia-Romagna you talk about Italy?
well Atalante Bergamo ultras Wild Kaos Atalanta are comunist and whan there go Lazio ultras game be so violant that Batle about Berlin

i read some things about karl marx and i have to admit he's right in some points. only the point that his political system was perfect and wouldn't need to change anymore was incorrect as history showed. but it's true that capitalism sucks our earth dry and that a totally free market enlarges the gap between the pour and the rich

Personally I believe if communism is governed without corruption and correctly "which no one has succeeded as far I know, but correct me if I'm wrong" can be a great system. I think everyone should be treated equally eliminating social status and class is step one to a better world and a lot less ignorance. I do have one question though what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Well i think that a socialist system can and will be acheived successfully, here in america exist lots of guerrillas who fight for it, but no one talks about it, i think that Cuba and Venesuela are the first sparks that will ignite a big revolution, because we (the working people) are very poor and the bourgeois are very rich, its just a matter of time, and we will fight for it.

I think that we all communists or not should read the The Communist Manifesto and then discuss it, i would like to know the point of view of the ones that oppose after reading it.

We should organize and fight for the revolution.

@belisarius:
Karl Marx never said that his political system was perfect and when the history showed that?? because the fall of the USSR?? its one mistake yes, it was on revolution, it was socialist and they fail but that doesnt mean that the communism is historically bad, because no country ever has been communist. And here in america Cuba and Venezuela are on the way and they are good (and dont believe in what the news says, Cuba and Venezuela are very strong countries with great things for their people, but bad things for the bourgeois interests so, you will always hear bad things abut them and never good ones, but if you do little research you can find that good things are everywhere, i recommend a documental movie about the revolution in Venezuela and the truth about Hugo Chavez, called "the revolution will not be televised "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_(documentary))

Written by Nighthowls on 06.05.2008 at 03:54

Personally I believe if communism is governed without corruption and correctly "which no one has succeeded as far I know, but correct me if I'm wrong" can be a great system. I think everyone should be treated equally eliminating social status and class is step one to a better world and a lot less ignorance. I do have one question though what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Cuba and Venezuela

Well, I think that communism sounds quite good in theory, of course a society in which everyone has the same opportunities and in which there's no social status sounds good.

But I think that communism can be considered as an utopy and it can be seen from different points of view and even based on some political theories and texts.

Some time ago I made an essay about the difference between the theory and the practice of communism (although communism has never existed in any country, so let's call it socialism)
In the essay, I examined socialism's theory from Marx and its interpretation of Hegel's dialectic, which differs from the original idea, as hegelian dialectic is based on pure reason and the proccess of evolution parts from a thesis, which after some time becomes false and then an antithesis cames out to confront the thesis, giving as a result a synthesis.
Capitalism's antithesis was socialism, but did socialist theory ever accept its antithesis?

The proletariat dictatorship was planned to be a necessary step to the socialism, but no one said how much would it last and how it would be. As a result the societies who called themselves communist ended up as dictatorships, for example North Korea or Cuba. Also the Soviet Union.

Imo, communism could exist, but not right now, in the world as we know it. There are too much interests (economic, political...). On the other hand, the existence of communism would requiere a change of mind on people, as everyone must be aware and care about other persons. If we see it from the text "The Leviathan" and the state of nature, we can see that people is still selfish and pursue their own interests.
On the other hand, it is possible that the proletariat made a revolution as a revenge of their oppresion, if that would it be correct, if they did it, that would be to continue that opression in certain way.
So, communism as I see it, has little opportunities to be applied in these times.

Ok, that's only my point of view.

imo mankind will never be ready to become communistic. like you said it's an utopy, but utopies can never be achieved. There's even a chance that in a 100 years or more the marxistic "state" won't even be a utopy anymore, just like saint-augustines city of god or platos republic.

Communism punishes the best, materially, and so encourages the breeding of lesser people on an equal scale with the more powerful. That's retarded.

Russia has an average IQ of 96, which is two points above Mexico and seven points above the African-American average. This may be a partial product of communism, but also illustrates why Russia is doomed to failure no matter what it does.

Written by Conservationist on 13.07.2008 at 23:15

Communism punishes the best, materially, and so encourages the breeding of lesser people on an equal scale with the more powerful. That's retarded.

isn't one of the main ideas in (at least not authoritarian)left-wing ideologies is that no person is better than the rest?

Written by Conservationist on 13.07.2008 at 23:15

Communism punishes the best, materially, and so encourages the breeding of lesser people on an equal scale with the more powerful. That's retarded.

Russia has an average IQ of 96, which is two points above Mexico and seven points above the African-American average. This may be a partial product of communism, but also illustrates why Russia is doomed to failure no matter what it does.

Beg your pardon....those who graduate from the universities of United Kingdom would never ever be accepted in Estonian (and Russian) universities because our education system is at a very high level (heritage of the oh so bad Soviet Union where everyone who wished could attend high level education free of charge)...I know it very well for I know some Estonians who have studied both according to the curriculums of the UK and Eastern European Russian style education (where students learn all "unnecessary stuff" throughly) and since they've now studied for some years according to the British way (which means that students study whatever they wish and pick at a relatively shallow level) and as we know, the only education system weaker than the one of UK is the one of the US.....these Estonians said they'd like to return to Estonia for university but since they've already adapted to the easier and "let go" way of the education there, it'd be very difficult for them to pass the exams here....

Numerous students from Estonia and also Russia get accepted into western universities without any obstacles since we obviously come from a system where we had to study more which gives us more thorough knowledge and subsequently it won't be that difficult for us in your institutions of higher education....

And you come to tell that the Eastern Block IQ levels are small and that Russia would be doomed....

Strange that some of you think that US and British universities are so weak when the new list of the best universities in the world (consisting of 2000 universities) which was published today has harvard at nr.1 in the World and Oxford and Cambridge very very high on the list as well.

I wasn't speaking of the universities.....it was all about the education which precedes university....sorry but if a Briton hasn't heard for instance heard who Jane Austen was just because he didn't pick the subject of literature at high school then this shows a weak tendency....

Fucktehwhat....I had to learn at school bout Selkup and Khanty languages and give a test upon knowledge bout world languages....in Britain you'll hardly find a person who knows that these languages and peoples exist at all....no, I wasn't in a linguistics/ethnics special class....it's our school curriculum and the majority study according to it....

Written by Ernis on 18.08.2008 at 20:09

I wasn't speaking of the universities.....it was all about the education which precedes university....sorry but if a Briton hasn't heard for instance heard who Jane Austen was just because he didn't pick the subject of literature at high school then this shows a weak tendency....

Fucktehwhat....I had to learn at school bout Selkup and Khanty languages and give a test upon knowledge bout world languages....in Britain you'll hardly find a person who knows that these languages and peoples exist at all....no, I wasn't in a linguistics/ethnics special class....it's our school curriculum and the majority study according to it....

i think in western europe it depends a bit more on the school. i'm in quite a good school and we also have to learn things like that (wood exploitation in tasmania f.e.), but a few blocks away there's another school that's really easy.

Written by Conservationist on 13.07.2008 at 23:15

Communism punishes the best, materially, and so encourages the breeding of lesser people on an equal scale with the more powerful. That's retarded.

Russia has an average IQ of 96, which is two points above Mexico and seven points above the African-American average. This may be a partial product of communism, but also illustrates why Russia is doomed to failure no matter what it does.

I guess your right-wing propaganda comes from Lynn-Varhanen's IQ and the Wealth of Nations, but you are deliberately omitting that the People's Republic of China (which has a nominally Communist regime), Hungary (probably the closest regime to dialectical Marxism until the Soviets crushed their revolution), and other former Soviet-backed regimes are quite high on that unbelievable, swayed, biased list. Besides, whom do you consider the 'best' who are punished by Marxist ideals? Football players, wealthy businessmen, Maffia attorneys, or people who produce more manufactured products than others? The motto is 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need', or rather, in Lenin's words, an equal amount of products for an equal amount of labor. This is what dialectical Marxism pursues - obviously, society shall not accept this kind of situation immediately after overthrowing the bourgeoisie, according to Trotsky. The main problem about Marx's idea of a transition to the second phase is that he wrote his Manifesto 160 years ago, before the tertiary and quaternary sectors became important, which only happened in the middle 20th century. According to Marx, who lived in a mainly agricultural and industrial society, the Revolution would take place first in Britain, who pioneered industrialization (and thus capitalism, thanks to Britishman Adam Smith) and where Marx lived at the moment, obviously it would not occur in a Medieval nation of starving farmers like Russia! Marx predicted that one worker could wake up some day in his Communist society and decide to work anywhere in the textile industry, railroads or somewhere else. This was possible 160 years ago. BUT, in the 21st century, we know that someone does not simply wake up and go to Mordor become an air traffic controller or a dentist. This is why I support Chávez's idea about creating a "Socialism for the 21st century" although I am lately not as convinced of his actions as I used to.

In addition, Socialism does not only NOT make you less wise, it also brought hope for alphabetization in a record time in countries such as the Soviet Union (98% illiteracy in 1917, full literacy in 30 years), Cuba (probably the only modern full literate country together with Japan), Nicaragua (reduction of illiteracy by 71% in nine months under the Sandinista regime)... It is capitalism which makes profit when most people live in misery. Look at the bourgeois USA army invading some countries 'in order to overthrow their dictators' or threatening to attack them (Irak, Afghanistan, North Korea...) but leaving most brutal regimes alone as long as they fold to Western free market (Equatorial Guinea, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Chad, Pakistan, etc).

Written by Taktsekte on 05.09.2008 at 13:16

In addition, Socialism does not only NOT make you less wise, it also brought hope for alphabetization in a record time in countries such as the Soviet Union (98% illiteracy in 1917, full literacy in 30 years), Cuba (probably the only modern full literate country together with Japan), Nicaragua (reduction of illiteracy by 71% in nine months under the Sandinista regime)... It is capitalism which makes profit when most people live in misery. Look at the bourgeois USA army invading some countries 'in order to overthrow their dictators' or threatening to attack them (Irak, Afghanistan, North Korea...) but leaving most brutal regimes alone as long as they fold to Western free market (Equatorial Guinea, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Chad, Pakistan, etc).

You're whole post is a veritable apple pie : )
You are right in every point. Cuba has a very very high education level. Also the USSR was one of the leading countries who lost the illiteracy...Secondary education was mandatory (nowadays it's not...) and high level education was offered free of charge at a very good quality...most students went on to obtain a degree either in a university or in a vocational college....for instance nowadays the vocational education system has collapsed...we don't have any more high level institutions of that kind...since the quality is low, people often forbid their children attend these because the students who are gathered to vocational schools tend to be fundamental school drop-outs who don't themselves know what they wish to study and if a 20 year old student wishes to obtain a vocational degree, it's very difficult if the school's infested with 14 year old nolifers....

It's every society's duty of taking care of the citizens...a welfare state can only be a socialist state which takes care of it's people such as Scandinavian countries with very strong left-side orientations....the only beggars I met in Finland were ESTONIANS and RUSSIANS (read: "refugees from the former eastern block who developed robbery-capitalism")...
It's wrong to say that "communism punishes the best"...who are the best? Do people really believe that most people who have a lot of money have obtained it by being HONEST and WORKING hard for years? Money is a matter of luck and more rarely of hard work....if a system announces "If a person is poor then it's his own problem!" then I think this system is evil....
A teacher of my bro died some months ago...she was about 27 years old...they discovered cancer and she didn't have the money for the urgent operation...those who don't have money, must wait in long queues for medical help which is made very expensive....the young woman went even to news agency, wept there that "People, help me, donate some money, I don't want to die so young!"...she's dead now....
There are numerous cases....of a mother who lost her young daughter who was a student at school but had heart disease...
Doctors/teachers/etc are paid almost nothing and most of them move away to Scandinavia because there they get paid normally...

Ok...Communism punishes the best....who does capitalism punish? The worst? Are simple people the worst? In some people's eyes may be yes....

In theory, Communsim is the best form of government. In theory...

Written by [user id=36088] on 26.11.2008 at 07:31

In theory, Communsim is the best form of government. In theory...

In thet case you know nothing about it ''form of gourement'' ''communism'' sorry read more bocks about theory

Written by [user id=36088] on 26.11.2008 at 07:31

In theory, Communsim is the best form of government. In theory...

Yeah it was meant to be, Karl Marx was a genious

But sadly his doctrine was perversed, and what was SUPPOSED to be something beautiful has proven that it's not possible, it still doesn't ultimately illiminate GREED (the ultimate capitalist trait).

To all of those who think that communism it's impossible, i'd recommend to you that read some texts from Marx and Engels.

Communism, isn't something that will be achieved in one night, nor in a year, nor in a lifetime, it's something really long, not hard, but long, since we have to remove all of are capitalistic ways. This was explain with the born of the "new mankind".

Comunism i far away, but not impossible, socialism is the way to communism and is not good only in theory but also in praxis, its hard to broke the mental chains of the capitalism, but with education it can and will be achieved. I wanna know when it was proved to be something impossible? I know its hard to understand, but the fact that no country has ever been communist doesn't mean that it is impossible, Cuba and Venezuela besides they have errors, they are the first step to understand that. How many years took for the Bourgeoisies to vanquish the royalty?

So why not instead of saying 'its impossible' lets educate the working class (us included)? Marx the theory, Lenin the praxis. So less people say things like Conservationist who lacks totally of education and information.

I would like to say more but my english is not that good

I've been asking myself a very interesting thing: if communism failed because of lack of religion and capitalism prevailed because of prescence of religion...

But I clarify: I don't mean that communism is impossible to achieve, like you posted above, it's hard to achieve, but it's possible. On the other hand, I think that communism, in the way it was experessed, has some mistakes that make it quite different from what it was thought to be.

Written by The Alchemist on 27.12.2008 at 05:42

I've been asking myself a very interesting thing: if communism failed because of lack of religion and capitalism prevailed because of prescence of religion...

On the other hand, I think that communism, in the way it was experessed, has some mistakes that make it quite different from what I was thought to be.

First communism never failed, since there hasn't been a single communist country in the whole history. Second, religion it's only a tool of the state to subjugate the population, just like the police and the army. Communism doesn't have mistakes, just misconceptions, that's cuz communism, it's just a tool, like the mathematics; when something it's wrong, it's fault of the interpreter, not of the tool.

Written by Fhuesc on 28.12.2008 at 00:00

Written by The Alchemist on 27.12.2008 at 05:42

I've been asking myself a very interesting thing: if communism failed because of lack of religion and capitalism prevailed because of prescence of religion...

On the other hand, I think that communism, in the way it was experessed, has some mistakes that make it quite different from what I was thought to be.

First communism never failed, since there hasn't been a single communist country in the whole history. Second, religion it's only a tool of the state to subjugate the population, just like the police and the army. Communism doesn't have mistakes, just misconceptions, that's cuz communism, it's just a tool, like the mathematics; when something it's wrong, it's fault of the interpreter, not of the tool.

Ok, then I meant "communism" since that's the way people call soviet, eastern european, cuban, vietnamese and north korean regimes.
I agree with all the things you said except that "religion it's only a tool of the state to subjugate the population" because religion is not part of politics after all, although it might be used in politics, religion is something natural in the human being, in the sense that human being believes in something

Written by The Alchemist on 02.01.2009 at 02:16

Written by Fhuesc on 28.12.2008 at 00:00

Written by The Alchemist on 27.12.2008 at 05:42

I've been asking myself a very interesting thing: if communism failed because of lack of religion and capitalism prevailed because of prescence of religion...

On the other hand, I think that communism, in the way it was experessed, has some mistakes that make it quite different from what I was thought to be.

First communism never failed, since there hasn't been a single communist country in the whole history. Second, religion it's only a tool of the state to subjugate the population, just like the police and the army. Communism doesn't have mistakes, just misconceptions, that's cuz communism, it's just a tool, like the mathematics; when something it's wrong, it's fault of the interpreter, not of the tool.

Ok, then I meant "communism" since that's the way people call soviet, eastern european, cuban, vietnamese and north korean regimes.
I agree with all the things you said except that "religion it's only a tool of the state to subjugate the population" because religion is not part of politics after all, although it might be used in politics, religion is something natural in the human being, in the sense that human being believes in something

When i talk about religion been a State's tool of control, i don't mean specifically at the Capitalism State, it was also a tool of control since the creation of first State, and has been a tool of control for any kind of State (Feudalism, Monarchy, Prehispanic, Greek, etc.), being the exception the Socialist State. And since the State has existed around 6000 years, it's a normal and wrong conclusion to think that religion it's part of the human nature. The Socialist state base its control only in the use of force.

Specifically, in the case of the URSS and eastern Europe, the counterrevolution was successful due to a series of events and circumstances, that had nothing to do with the communist theory. Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, Laos and other Socialist countries, are on their way to become true Socialist countries, so later they can advance to communism.

Written by Fhuesc on 02.01.2009 at 08:28

North Korea, Laos and other Socialist countries, are on their way to become true Socialist countries, so later they can advance to communism.

To be honest, North Korea is a state that is "socialist" but what's really happening there is far from it.....this is an awful totalitarian regime where most people (the bold and the beautiful with Kim) are living as they wish and the rest of the people are starving and the "enemies" are in concentration camps....like Nazi Germany but screw the bolt in twice as hard.....

I'd point out China, btw....altho this is theoretically a socialist country and stuff....here are also things which are far from socialism....for instance the education which is very expensive and never state-funded (socialist welfare states usually tend to offer free education)....also...the contrasts....the huge office buildings, the fancy shopping malls, the pretty babes and cool guys on the streets hanging around and stuff, huge amount of people doing everything they can to own a car etc....at the same time there are poor people who are really distanced from all of the glamour ....people who are forced to move out from their houses because the state and the businessmen wish to erect more skyscrapers with more office space and luxury apartments....that's these are the dark sides of capitalism and they occur in China which is supposed to be a socialist country....
It is....there's some socialist traits here but during the economic growth the capitalist side has become more dominant....ever and ever....
I do hope and believe that China is able to get rid of these negative sides and develop towards the "Scandinavian style socialism"...we'll see what the years will bring....

@Hobbit: i didn't mention China, cuz they left socialism around 10 years. You live there, so, have you noticed that the "new" coins and bills, doesn't have the emblem of People's Republic of China anymore?, that's cuz they aren't socialist, if you ask me why the ruling party it's the communist party, i don't have idea, my guess is that they are right now like the URSS during the late 70's and 80's, where the communist party wasn't really communist.

This so called "Scandinavian style socialism" it's only possible if in another part of the world, people live in misery, that's just another capital's illusion.

In the case of North Korea i'll have to admit that i don't have enough info about what's happening there.

Communism was the good idea in the begining.......
The wrong people that conducted it was the one that made it inhuman....

Is it that hard to understand that what you believe is/was a communist country, in reality is/was not communist?. Besides assuming that they are/were communist, if they failed, why that makes communist impossible, inhuman, absurd, etc?, haven't you thought that the creation of a new system, it's something hard, like learn to ride bicycle, you'll end up falling the first times.

Another thing, most of the people who talks about communism, always says "in theory bla bla bla..." and from the nonsence it made in most cases, it's clear to me, that people haven't even read the communism manifesto, it's more they haven't even read what Comrade Frosty (the first post) wrote.