Global Warming
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Visited by: 189 users
Original post
Posted by Konrad, 23.08.2006 - 20:52
Rising sea level and changes in precipitation have been directly affected by global warming. These changes MAY increase the frequency and intensity of various extreme weather events namely, floods, droughts, heat waves, hurricanes, tornados, glacier retreat, species extinctions and an increase in disease vectors. Although the above listed events have been occuring, it is difficult to scientifically connect them with global warming. However, only a small minority of climate scientists discount the role that humanity's actions have played in recent warming.
This issue has been a growing political debate, as well as how to deal with the predicted consequences. Please assess these various scientific facts before posting your opinion on the matter:
Fact 1. 2005 was the warmest year since reliable instrumental mesurements became available in the late 1800's.
Fact 2. Increase in greenhouse gases and carbon dioxide are due to both natural or internal processes (solar activity, volcanic emissions) and external processes (humans).
Fact 3. Increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere directly leads to the melting of ice near the north and south poles. As the ice melts, land or open water take it's place.
Fact 4. Land and water are less reflective than ice, thus absorbing more solar radiation. This causes more warming in that specific area, which in turn causes more melting.
Fact 5. Higher temperatures, lessened snow cover, rising sea levels effect ecosystems, and forced various species out of their habitats. Other species however, may flourish. Lowering of ocean pH (which is a direct result of increased carbon dioxide) and changing water temperature will have a direct impact on coral reefs.
The possibility that the Earth's temperatures will continue to significantly increase has led people to take various actions in order to retard the process, which are:
1. Energy conservation
2. Alternative energy sources
3. Carbon capture and storage
4. Development of wind power, nuclear power, solar power, hybrid automobiles etc.
Here are some various models I found on wikipedia in direct corrolation to this topic:
1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png
2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
3. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr-2.png
4. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Glacier_Mass_Balance.png
Please mention your stance on the matter and consider the following questions:
Do you believe that global warming proposes a serious problem to us in our lifetime? Do you feel that this issue should be pushed, or are you sick of hearing about it? If you think this a serious issue, what can we do to help? Do you think anything can be done to completely stop global warming, or is it too late?
| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA  |
you Know.... a few things come to mind with the current global warming conversation. Keep in mind that as a population, you only know what you here from major media. we were told in the 70s that there was global cooling, not true we were told in the eighteies that aids was an epidemic for hetrosexual men, not true We were told int the eighties in college that there would be global overpopulation, not true we were told that the earth could not feed itself, not true how many leftist scares must the world go through before the world gets it. for damn sure the globe is warming, DUH, Its been warming for 10 thousand years. Why all the sudden is the earth being manipulated by human, animal behavior? Ive a question for all the global warming religionist, What is the "optimal" global temperature ? Is it the current temps, is it the temps of 10 thousand yrs ago or is it temps of the future ? You see, you, they, anyone, has NO I repeat No basis for current temps as a quote global norm. Also remember that these institutions that promote this have an agenda. that is they need funding. I I am a researcher and I tell you that all is well, What type of funding do you see me getting, lol not a #$%@$%& thing!
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| Harmonic Account deleted |
Harmonic
Account deleted Written by Anthem on 11.03.2008 at 05:58 First off, I can easily refute all of your points. But another, more pressing question comes to mind: do you really believe global warming is a hoax, or are you just bitter for lack of funding? (And why is a fan of Ayn Rand moaning about not getting funded? Haven't you read The Fountainhead? Did you not understand!?) 
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| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA |
I have never denied that the globe is warming. Most rational people do not either. We have been warming since the last ice age 10,000 yrs ago. I question what is mans impact. Science tells us that over 90% of the carbon polutants are driven by other means than man, ie..... plankton, volcanic activity, or methane from animal farming. What I would like to ask, and this is a serious question. Even if man made climate change is real, "What is then optimal global temperature". please those of you who think that this is a rhetorical question, it is not. What should the global temperature be maintaned if such a thing was possible???? remember that thew globe has warmed, cooled, warmed, cooled etc many times over the past few millenia! Lastly I live in the northeast of the U.S. and I hate cold so global warming is fine with me 
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| Clintagräm Shrinebuilder Posts: 5772 From: USA  |
Michael Crichton - ALIENS CAUSE GLOBAL WARNING http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html I'm all for protecting the environment, limiting pollution, alternate fuel sources, but you've got to remember we'll never truly know as individuals unless we do the work ourselves, which 99.99% of us will never do, so we have to feed off of what we're told and taught. I just find it very interesting the many correlations he brings up between the past and present regarding consensus science. It's unfortunate we need a reason (GLOBAL WARMING) to protect our world.
---- The force will be with you, always.
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| Clintagräm Shrinebuilder Posts: 5772 From: USA |
Written by Guest on 14.03.2008 at 19:13 Indeed, it wasn't a scientific speech, but he makes it evident to us "non-scientists" you can't believe everything you hear in this day and age. Know and learn from the past.
---- The force will be with you, always.
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| Pinusar Account deleted |
Pinusar
Account deleted Written by Anthem on 11.03.2008 at 05:58 You are right, the scientific institutions usually have an agenda and can be influenced by the sponsors, in my opinion this is especially the case with the institutions that claim global warming NOT to be man made. Think, who would benefit if such an opinion was widespread? The answer is institutions, which' profit relies on use of fossil fuels, etc. For example oil importers and so on. So I can't see how supporters of human made global warming are more biased than the others, it might even be the other way round? By the way, about what you said that we were thaught some false things before etc. I can't exactly see how it is an argument against current predominant global warming theories. Of course we should be critical of everything mainstream channels propagate and try to make up our own mind as objectively as possible(although it is hard if you are not a scientist), but that doesn't mean you should disbelieve everything.  
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| Aei Ontos Account deleted |
Aei Ontos
Account deleted
It doesn't really matter who's guilty of the global warming right? If the earth drowns because all the ice melts we all die anyway  ;D
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| belisarius Posts: 222 From: Belgium |
Written by Guest on 14.04.2008 at 12:48 not the entire world would drown, but surely a big part (f.e. flanders, where i live, wouldn't exist anymore)
---- I am a God in the deepest corner of my mind
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| Nighthowls Paratrooper Posts: 315 From: USA  |
Written by belisarius on 14.04.2008 at 22:05 Nevertheless we would all die cause the Oceans would become stagnant
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| Harmonic Account deleted |
Harmonic
Account deleted Written by Guest on 26.08.2008 at 12:21 Ah, yes... I'm being quoted partly out of context again... why does that happen so frequently here? Where is the part about "...although the planet will pull through in the end"? : Allow me to elaborate. The global warming debate seems to revolve around the assumption of the "eco-warriors" that we are slowly killing planet Earth - a perspective that is ridiculous to the point of absurd. My point is this: our planet will survive (it has endured much worse), but the human species may be at risk due to the twin threats of massive coastal flooding and rampant food shortages. Let's quit fussing about the Earth, which can take care of itself, and start worrying about our own well-being. Future suggestion: read my entire post before quoting me, not just the first half of the first sentence. This happens so often here that I'm getting sick of visiting this site. 
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| Kasper Posts: 372 From: Denmark  |
I once saw a documentary, it pretty much explained global warming.. But what really surprised me was when they showed two graphs. One with the increasing sun activity, and the increasing temperature of the earth. They both followed eachother perfectly. While the other graf showed the amount of CO2 and the increasing temperature of the earth. The CO2 line went downhill, while the temperature increased. Therefore they could conclude that CO2 did not effect the temperature of the earth, while sun activity do. And now I remember that they also showed two other graphs. Decreasing sun activity, and decreasing temperature of the earth, matched perfectly. And then the other, showing increasing CO2, and decreasing temperature. They did not follow eachother. Can't remember the name of the documentary, but it was really interesting.
---- "An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded"
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| Valentin B Iconoclast Posts: 10084 From: Czech Republic  |
Written by Kasper on 26.08.2008 at 18:32 i don't get this, all this doesn't make sense: Venus has a huge concentration of greenhouse gases. it's only 2/3 of the distance the earth is from the sun, so in theory, if it had an atmosphere like ours, Venus would be an inhabitable planet. but it's pretty much the hottest planet in the whole solar system(surpassing Mercury), about 450 degrees. why? it wouldn't make sense to be that hot only because of the sun being too powerful. it's all in the greenhouse effect, which is pretty much the best logical explanation for what's happening in the world today with the extreme weather and shit. it's also an extremely simple concept : heat enters the earth's atmosphere but CO2 won't let it escape.
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| -DC-002- Mastercommander Posts: 1703 From: USA  |
Global Warming is not a hoax. Humans effect on Global Warming however is. It's a way for the people who are the fronting the idea to make a ridiculous amount of money. It also makes it so Africans can't expand on all the natural resources that Africa holds. when the people say that the African people can't make factories because of CO2 its making the situation there MUCH worse. They are a reason so many people are dying there by treatable diseases and in poverty. There's a few facts that are very solid that makes it clear that Human Beings and their actions have no effect on global warming. First of, the amount of CO2 put out just by volcanoes is 10 MEGATONS more then humans put out a year (that's a lot BTW). and its about the same ratio when you compare humans output to just the CO2 that comes from rotting vegetation. People talk all the time about the melting Icecaps. Its one of the main points they use to strengthen their logic. In reality though the icecaps have ALWAYS been breaking apart and letting ice go. Its just what happens with time and more ice can be made. Another Point is. At the time of the last warm period the world was very Fertile and supplied us with a plethora of flora and fauna. It was an extremely prosperous time for life on earth. there's no reason to fear warmth. The last and most important points is that CO2 DOESN'T EVEN EFFECT THE TEMPERATURE. The part of the graph in,"An Inconvenient Truth" (I'm only referencing because its been the main catalyst for the Global Warming issue) that shows CO2 fallowing Temperature is only a tiny part of the graph that came from the scientists that held it. Sure, that part of the graph does look like CO2 fallow Temperature but its actually the exact opposite. The other part of the graph shows that CO2 fallows temperature by a lag of 800 years. 800 years sounds like a pretty big difference to me doesn't it. that means that the CO2 levels today are just regulating with the temperatures of the Midevil Era. The real cause for Global warming comes from the Sun. The sun constantly fires of explosions called, "Sunspots" that vary in size and are sent at the earth and warm it. The sun goes through fluctuation of how big these Sunspots are and when we line up the suns fluctuations with the Earths temperature changes they line up pretty much perfectly. So there you have it. The information I told IS true. If you don't think so just ask and I'll see if I can get you the video from which I got the it from. If you can totally disprove my opinions then by all means do so. I'd be happy to see other information pertaining to this subject.
---- Coldgrits
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| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA |
There is so much new to say on this topic. First let me say that we should all do our part to care for mother earth ie, not waste, plant trees, recycle, and all things that are reasonable for sustaining our planet. My first question is an obvious one. How do we known what we know? Is the issue a media driven one, do scientists have an agenda or are they sincere? Is there a monetary gain to be made by one side or the other? That said notice the slight of hand that the science community has done with language. It is no longer global warming but "Climate change" this had to be done because we are not seeing a rise in global temperature changes but a fall in them. There is now global cooling. In the 150 years after the little ice age the median temperature rose 1 degree. since 1998 it has risen 1/3 of a degree. that means what took 150 years to heat up has now cooled in a measly 10 years. You see alarmists likes to take the period right after the little ice age or about 1850 as their reference point. Doing this evades the larger graph which shows the earth cooling for centuries before warming. Also in any graph that is superimposed carbon dioxide lags temps by 400 to 1400 years. Also those pictures of poor polar bears holding onto ice are also propaganda. The arctic may be warming but the antarctic is cooling. hmm no one ever mentions that. random data: Other aspects of the data are just as stunning. * Only 4 of the top 10 warmest years occurred in the past 10 years (1998, 1999, 2006) * Out of the top 10 warmest years half occurred before 1940 * The years 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2004 were cooler than the year 1900 * 1996, just two years before what Al Gore called the hottest year in the history of the planet, was actually cooler than average. * 1921 was the third warmest year in recorded history (behind 1934 and 1998). The most recent revelation of Henson a NASA guy who watches gloabal temperatures had some recent problems. After claiming the HOTTEST october(2008) ever on record we find that a few lazy russians just transcribbed septembers data to october and hence we have a really warm october LOL. Now non of this evidence will bother those of you whom follow the religion of global warming because you wish it to be so. But facts are stubborn things. well enough said Excelsior !!!
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| LeChron James Helvetesfossen Posts: 3561 From: USA  |
I dont understand why global warming is such a huge issue. nobody now is going to be around long enough to see any real consequences, that kinda stuff takes hundreds and hundreds of years to occur.
---- Kick Ass, Die Young Less is More Stay Pure Stay Poor Music was my life, music brought me to life and music is how I will be remembered long after I leave this life. When I die there will be a final waltz in my head that only I can hear.
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| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA |
I take the silence of people in this post on recent observations and scientific data that the myth of global warming is at the least put on hold and maybe even dispelled.
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA |
Taka, you have not addressed the issue that I have raised. For the last 9 or so years the globe has been cooling. Please entertain me once again and tell me why it took 150 years to warm 1 degree and only 10 years to cool 3 tenths of a degree? this question is not a right wing conspiracy it is a mere question. Oh, and secondly, why did your side go from the language of "Global Warming" to Climate Change" ? Is this an admission that the globe itself is not warming?
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA |
Taka with all due respect, Ill agree I do not spend the time posting you do but I am as sure of my ideals as you are. With respect to global warming it all relates to the time frame of the graph one uses. You used the pro warming graph. Why is that relevant, because the little ice age ended about 1860 and globe has been warming since. No brainer duh.let me put up several graphs for discussion. Notice that the temperature changes are relevant to the time graph. Not only that but co2 follows temperature changes not the other way around. As an antidote here in the U.S. they are debating drilling for oil in Anwar alaska. the laugh is that the fact there is oil under ice is that the globe was once a warm place where foilage degraded. Now you can find all the scientists you like and they can have a patty cake party of global warming conspiracy charges. The fact remains the globe cools, warms, cools warms, cools, warms etc.... Volcanoes, ocean plankton, methane etc do more damage than ALL HUMAN activity period. We account for at most 5 % of the gases. I will in time check out your website references, im sure, but can you not even agree that the earth has warmed and cooled many times during its cycles? And can we be sure that we are the Sole cause to this particular warming trend? Good day!!
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| Anthem Posts: 674 From: USA |
[img]  [/img][img]  [/img][img]  [/img]here are the pics from my last post Notice how the whole argument hangs on the reference time frame !
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| eximius Posts: 139 From: Romania  |
I would like to revive a bit this thread by introducing the term "global dimming" as no one brought it so far . Some may know what it is , some may find it useful and I hope not many will find it just another conspiracy Global dimming refers to the process in which sunlight is reflected back into space by water vapors in the clouds acting like a mirror. It seems that in order to form water "droplets" in the sky you need tiny particles called particulate matter or fine particles around which they gather. By burning fossil fuel man contributed somewhere around 10% of the total amount of such particles and therefor to the process of making water vapors. So what's the big deal? The big deal is that as more sunlight is reflected back into space less energy reaches the surface of the earth. And less energy reaching the surface of the earth means less energy for the greenhouse gasses to hold back. That sounds fair, and it is fair if you think about it. Less global dimming would significantly increase global temperature. For all of you who live in Europe you probably noticed that nowadays cars are classified in terms of Euro 3, Euro 4 ,Euro 5. If you think about it a car that uses 10 litters of gas to power itself on a distance of 100 km actually burns that fuel, it's all transformed through that chemical power giving reactions in the same way (thus giving c02 away) . doesn't matter if the car is noneuro or euro 5, the only difference is that cars classified as euro 5 collect more particles. but you see, if they collect more particles there will eventually be less global dimming. And it's not only the cars, everything tries to "pollute" as less as possible. I'm not trying to say we should all go back to driving farting cars but we should take on account what's happening out there. My solution would be running everything on electricity or other alternative sources of energy who will then produce electricity like geothermal energy, wind ,sun , waves, tides etc... but of course it's so easy to say that. Many petrol selling companies would find that revolting and would probably want to turn me into wave power plant here is a list of useful url-s : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm4QdNXhAd0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/dimming.html http://www.roperld.com/science/GlobalWarming_Dimming.htm i hope you'll find them interesting
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| Italics Posts: 294 From: USA |
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| Italics Posts: 294 From: USA |
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| Italics Posts: 294 From: USA |
"55 million years ago, ocean pH levels dropped drastically and global temperatures rose fast by 5 degrees. The rapid change caused a mass extinction event that took millions of years to recover from." What?? You complain about people not posting up "sources" and then you talk about a mass extinction that supposedly happened 55 million years ago? People like you are quite interesting... you talk about how there is no proof of an existance of God and how people base their belief off of things that are impossible to know... and yet you automatically take an unproven scientific theory and spew it out (as if it were your own thoughts and you didn't just copy and paste it from a website) as if it were truth and expect those who may be naive enough to believe it. Wow. Perhaps I should discuss this in a forum of adults and not young teenagers who know everything  Here, I'll say it for you: "But Italics, I'm 27 and yu're 21." Sorry... I meant to say adults who ACT like young teenagers.
---- But I Justify My Desire to No One
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| Italics Posts: 294 From: USA |
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| Italics Posts: 294 From: USA |
Half of your response isn't worth responding to... because all you did is take my own argument and try to turn it around at me. Glad to see you can think for yourself? And gee, ever since i used the word "half" you sure have taken a liking to it The quote that you made does not prove your point at all. Way to post up something that you probably don't even understand yourself. You prove your own arrogance by accusing me of "not understanding science." I guess that makes me just like a scientist! And way to continue to ignore the points that i've brought up and instead focus on my usage of the word "predict." Anyway, as much as I'd love to be educated by you I am currently participating in much more informative threads on different forums throughout the internet dealing with this issue. This is the weakest one I've stumbled upon. Leave it to pimply faced, angsty teen metal heads to pretend to know about subjects that they have no knowledge on beyond what they've read on their favorite internet site. Anyway, if you care to produce an opinion of your own that hasn't been copied and pasted... go ahead and pm it to me. I might read it one day. Until then, I'm through with this amateur attempt of a debate that you've tried to strike up I'm sure there are plenty of 14 year olds here who have been educated by their science teacher on this subject who can meet you on your own intelligence level Adieu! Edit: I wouldn't bother responding to this, because this is probably the last time I'll ever click on this topic
---- But I Justify My Desire to No One
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| Konrad Mormon Storm Posts: 707 From: USA  |
Http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=The+Great+Warming+Swindle&emb=0&aq=f# Very interesting documentary...good facts presented. I believe that global warming exists and also that we should do our best to conserve energy...you all know this...but it's being used as a huge political motive and I think a lot of these "green" politicians are nothing more than modern-day wolves in sheeps clothing. If you sat through "An Inconvenient Truth", you should be able to handle this. Here is a rebuttal to the documentary: http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.php
---- Brujerizmo!
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