Written by Valentin B on 04.01.2011 at 21:01

Well, no-one would like that other people get benefit from your own hard work in your band, so imo this is justified. Rammstein are a bit anal though about their name appearing in places, for example the people at setlist.fm instantly retract any rammstein setlist they have, because the management always threatens to sue.

If I had a succesful band, and another band can make money from it, then I would be glad. Rammstein didn't lose any money with this. And I guess Linderman and Apocalyptica are friends of some sorts if they performed together. So they don't hate each other or anything, there's no point of sueing them. That's just beign a douche.

Written by [user id=98889] on 05.01.2011 at 02:07

So don't turn this posting into an attack on either Rammstein's or Apocalyptica's music - it's irrelevant.

ABsolutely true. Cause in fact I like Apocalyptica's music and hate Rammstein's but in this case Rammstein are right and Apocalyptica are totally wrong.

It isn't about Rammstein against Apocalyptice... it's all about the money and that shit happens when good bands, as Apocalyptica and Rammstein both are, go into the sell out MAINSTREAM!!!

Written by SlaytanicGonzo on 05.01.2011 at 02:16

Written by Valentin B on 04.01.2011 at 21:01

Well, no-one would like that other people get benefit from your own hard work in your band, so imo this is justified. Rammstein are a bit anal though about their name appearing in places, for example the people at setlist.fm instantly retract any rammstein setlist they have, because the management always threatens to sue.

If I had a succesful band, and another band can make money from it, then I would be glad. Rammstein didn't lose any money with this. And I guess Linderman and Apocalyptica are friends of some sorts if they performed together. So they don't hate each other or anything, there's no point of sueing them. That's just beign a douche.

this is simply not how the industry (and logic) works. now individually i guess none of the guys at Rammstein would have given a fuck, but then again their management can also act on behalf of the band, and so it seems that Till Lindemann personally brought the guys from Apocalyptica to court and pointed the finger at them, when probably none of the band members involved:

1.actually went into the courtroom

2.gives a fuck

3.will get/lose any notable amount of money(if it's anyone's fault, it's the guy's who did the promotion)

plus, look at it this way: on the Apocalyptica promotion poster/whatever they say they have a song featuring Rammstein, but it only had one of the 6 members on it. that is selling a lie and i would be kinda pissed if i were to buy the album expecting some kind of jam between R+ and Apocalyptica but only a cello metal song with Till's voice on it.

now on the other hand Amon Amarth's song "Live For the Kill" features the 3 cello-playing founding members of Apocalyptica playing a cello part for something like 2 minutes and on the album it says "featuring Apocalyptica" so that is true, you're not selling any lie.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.01.2011 at 18:25

It didn't feature Rammstein, it only featured two of its members. So, imo, Rammstein are right in sueing, also because Apocalyptica only used the featuring Rammstein slogan for commercial gain.

Indeed. It was false advertisement and inappropriate use of a copyrighted trademark.
In fact, it didn't feature Ramstein.

Written by RavenKing on 05.01.2011 at 04:12

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.01.2011 at 18:25

It didn't feature Rammstein, it only featured two of its members. So, imo, Rammstein are right in sueing, also because Apocalyptica only used the featuring Rammstein slogan for commercial gain.

Indeed. It was false advertisement and inappropriate use of a copyrighted trademark.
In fact, it didn't feature Ramstein.

Rammstein feature it didn't. False advertisement and inappropriate use of a copyrighted trademark it was.

Written by Legendary on 04.01.2011 at 22:24

I'm sad for you, you live in a fucked up world of money, greed, pessimism and egoism!

Welcome to the real world, where capitalism and materialism reign over everything and money is the only true god.

Sorry but that's how this world is: full of greed and egoism. The world is corrupted to the core and will always be because the human nature is corrupted. The promise of a better future is a lie.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.01.2011 at 18:25

It didn't feature Rammstein, it only featured two of its members. So, imo, Rammstein are right in sueing, also because Apocalyptica only used the featuring Rammstein slogan for commercial gain.

This resumes the entire thread, so I can't understand why everyone is bitching about this, business are business, nuff said.

I'm pretty sure this lawsuit was not commenced by Rammstein members...it's their money eating management...if you don't know, managers of such bands get the bigger part of money earned by the bands them selves...

Holy crap there's a lot of stupid comments here. Can only agree with what have been said by Marcel and the likes; nothing wrong with suing someone for using a trademark without permission.

Glad there are some people around here with some sense. I was going to post almost exactly what GT posted. I didn't, though, because I don't need to be sued.

Also of note, no matter how much you think Rammstein sucks, they have rights (and Apocalyptica sucks more).

A chance to get money, I don't think anyone would pass up such an opportunity, not in this greedy world at least. Whether they had to take legal action is irrelevant, the fact is they did and won compensation. Hopefully for Apocalyptica their profits were much more substantial than what they lost in the lawsuit.

Written by TheWiseNoob on 04.01.2011 at 22:42

Written by Legendary on 04.01.2011 at 22:24

Written by Winterthrone on 04.01.2011 at 20:31

Written by Legendary on 04.01.2011 at 20:00

No people where hurt so no reason to sue.
It seems like a misunderstanding and just because you know you can win the case doesn't give you a reason to rob other people of their money. Especially if you collaborated with them. I think if anything, a simple public apology/rectification would have serviced.

I'm glad for you, you live in an enchanted world with wizards, faeries and unicorns! Welcome to the real world buddy!

I'm sad for you, you live in a fucked up world of money, greed, pessimism and egoism! You perceive every hint of honesty and integrity as a threat to your cruel "reality"! I just wanted to share with people the way things could also be handled. I know the world (and especially the music industry) doesn't usually work that way. But if we keep dismissing any more honest and fair solutions we're only contributing to this fact.
But I guess the fact that your "I hate" list is almost twice as long as your "I love" list says it all.
peace

Legendary, you need a blow job for composing such perfect, ass-owning prose.

Yeah right I've been owned lol! This is reality I'm not defending it I'm just stating the facts. You can do like Ostriches and put your head in the sand if you want, but it is the cruel reality of the music business. And 'ass-owning prose' is not gonna change anything to that reality. Also, I'm not the one dismissing solutions other than suing people... I just stated the fact that the music business was full of stories like that and Rammstein wasn't worse than any other band in the music business
in suing Apocalyptica for a clear case of Trademark violation.

Written by [user id=35732] on 04.01.2011 at 17:38

I hope they can now include more dildos in their special releases.

I think Array said it best, lmao. Perhaps more dildos indeed and maybe a sex swing, who knows, it is Rammstein after all

Czech singer Daniel Landa has a verse "if i weren't rough i wouldn't like Rammstein" in one of his song...and he definitely made some serious money from selling CDs with this songs...

if they only know...

Written by Ellrohir on 08.01.2011 at 00:23

Czech singer Daniel Landa has a verse "if i weren't rough i wouldn't like Rammstein" in one of his song...and he definitely made some serious money from selling CDs with this songs...

if they only know...

There is no legal issue with this. It's only mentioning a name, like comedians do. It is not considered as using a trademark to sell your own stuff. You can find tons of things like that and there is no lawsuit.
You can have a laugh at others and there is no lawsuit.
The problem here is Apocalyptica falsely pretended that the band Ramsteinn was involved. It is false advertisement.

Written by TheWiseNoob on 04.01.2011 at 22:42

Written by Legendary on 04.01.2011 at 22:24


I'm sad for you, you live in a fucked up world of money, greed, pessimism and egoism! You perceive every hint of honesty and integrity as a threat to your cruel "reality"! I just wanted to share with people the way things could also be handled. I know the world (and especially the music industry) doesn't usually work that way. But if we keep dismissing any more honest and fair solutions we're only contributing to this fact.
But I guess the fact that your "I hate" list is almost twice as long as your "I love" list says it all.
peace

Legendary, you need a blow job for composing such perfect, ass-owning prose.

Right on.

Wtf are you all against Rammstein??
Apocalyptica are dumbasses with their attitude "two members equals the whole band to feature".
This Cello-core is already starting to get on my nerves anyway -.-

Are people actually that thick? When people guest on albums there are clear permissions on what you can do. Anything outside of this is a breach. Also the fact that if the name rammstein us no longer treated as a trademark they would lose all right to use it as such in the future. Making a more serious infringement impossible to deal with.

I's not about rammstein or butthurt. Its about protection of earnings. It its also unknown at this point if the action was brought by the band members or pilgrim management, so don't be so quick to concern.

If you were in business you would want to protect your earnings the same

Guys buy my new album featuring guest appearances by IRON MAIDEN, OPETH, and METALLICA w/ Cliff Burton!*








*look-alikes

Written by Mikyz on 05.01.2011 at 17:52

Hopefully for Apocalyptica their profits were much more substantial than what they lost in the lawsuit.

and the using of Rammstein's name and logo wasn't a cash grab? how can anyone side with Apocalyptica's promotion people on this issue is beyond me. they misused a recognized trademark of another band, they were selling a goddamned lie FFS. it's obvious they were just trying to lure more people to buy the album and hope that Rammstein's management wouldn't notice.. well, they did, and they completely rightfully sued someone who misused the Rammstein name in order to sneakily get more money.


LAWYERED.

Written by Valentin B on 10.01.2011 at 21:23

Written by Mikyz on 05.01.2011 at 17:52

Hopefully for Apocalyptica their profits were much more substantial than what they lost in the lawsuit.

and the using of Rammstein's name and logo wasn't a cash grab? how can anyone side with Apocalyptica's promotion people on this issue is beyond me. they misused a recognized trademark of another band, they were selling a goddamned lie FFS. it's obvious they were just trying to lure more people to buy the album and hope that Rammstein's management wouldn't notice.. well, they did, and they completely rightfully sued someone who misused the Rammstein name in order to sneakily get more money.


LAWYERED.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Rammstein suing Apocalyptica. What you said is exactly what I meant by that comment because in the end we live in a dog-eat-dog world where cash as the main catalyst. Nothing can provoke unethical behavior as much as money.

Written by [user id=6449] on 04.01.2011 at 18:22

"Sure you can feature us on your album, but don't tell it features us or we'll sue."

What the fuck?

This. So much WTF it's not even funny.

Written by DrunkenFuck on 04.01.2011 at 21:23

Written by Axe Argonian on 04.01.2011 at 21:17

A good compromise would have been to instead market the album under the slogan, "Featuring singer Till Lindemann and guitarist Richard Z from the band Rammstein!". Unfortunately, Apocalyptica didn't do that, leaving the lawsuit rightly justified.

Still, I see this as nothing more than an easy way for Rammstein to make quick cash, reinforcing my great distaste for them.

Lawyers are expensive. And lawsuits are always slow to process. This was about a album released in 2007. I doubt Rammstein or their management will see a significant amount of that money.

This is one of the reasons I will never sign with a record label. They're useless and greedy, and this is just one more example of a label/artist splitting hairs to wrest some cash out of someone else.

Speaking as both a musician and a businessperson, if Apocalyptica had used my band name because one or more members were being featured on the album, I wouldn't have objected - more attention for the band, more press, more promotion, more money. Exactly how was Rammstein hurt by Apocalyptica's promotion of them when more than one band member was featured on their album? I am not seeing any actual harm here.

In legal technicalities, yes, Apo could be sued, but before filing a lawsuit against someone, one should be certain that actual harm has been done. There are far too many petty lawsuits, and this is just one more example of petty greed.

Written by Valentin B on 10.01.2011 at 21:23

Written by Mikyz on 05.01.2011 at 17:52

Hopefully for Apocalyptica their profits were much more substantial than what they lost in the lawsuit.

and the using of Rammstein's name and logo wasn't a cash grab? how can anyone side with Apocalyptica's promotion people on this issue is beyond me. they misused a recognized trademark of another band, they were selling a goddamned lie FFS. it's obvious they were just trying to lure more people to buy the album and hope that Rammstein's management wouldn't notice.. well, they did, and they completely rightfully sued someone who misused the Rammstein name in order to sneakily get more money.


LAWYERED.

There's this thing called royalties, which Rammstein undoubtedly received for featuring on the album - the more copies of the album that sell, the more money the band/artists make.

Man, I feel like the last guy on this planet not suing anyone...