Written by Milena on 04.02.2012 at 18:41

You're not the only person who suggested it though *spoils boost*

Written by Garth Vader on 04.02.2012 at 05:00
I know everyone here pretty much hates Nu-metal... but no category? No Retro-Metal category? No NWOAHM? I really don't care all that much. It is fun voting, and checking out bands that I've not heard here, but you are going to have a hard time convincing us that Metalgaze and Post Metal are not related to Doom in any way.
Cheers!

Nu-metal albums go to Alternative
Retro-Metal?... If you are talking about bands in the vein of Black sabbath and bluesy stuff, they will probably end up in a hardrock or heavy metalc category... It's a very little niche to make a category for it.
NWOAHM? I don't know that achronym so i can't comment on it.

I don't even know where to start with your comment on the metalgaze and post metal thing because I'm sorry but you clearly don't have a clue of what the styles represent. It seems to me you are the kind of person who blends stuff like sludge, stoner in the same niche as doom, which is wrong in many levels.... To not even speak about Shoegaze which is an extention of pop.

So I while I can understand what you are comming from wih the post-metal comment because a lot of people make the same mistake but if you actually care to listen to the bands in that category you'll see they have nothing to do with doom. But I can't imagine where you draw the line between shoegaze and doom.

Written by Milena on 04.02.2012 at 12:14
]The fact nu-metal doesn't have one means it's a dying genre... if you think otherwise, please provide me with 10 nomination-worthy releases of nu-metal this year.

even if there were a handful of them, they would go to alternative metal.

I understand that people get sort of confused with the categories but I sincerely find it INSULTING when people say that we are one-sided.
They clearly don't know how hard this was to us.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 18:59

I understand that people get sort of confused with the categories but I sincerely find it INSULTING when people say that we are one-sided.

I find it amusing, because, with 20+ people with varying levels of love for some genres, knowledge of some genres (always starting with "solid" though), and overall different attitudes and takes on things, what you get cannot possibly be a one-sided effort.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 18:54

NWOAHM? I don't know that achronym so i can't comment on it.

New Wave Of American Heavy Metal. Bands that are apparently responsible for putting American heavy metal back on the map or something; Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, A7X, All That Remains, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWOAHM

EDIT: Bands that the rest of us just lump into their proper genres like groove metal, modern thrash and metalcore...

Written by psykometal on 04.02.2012 at 19:17

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 18:54

NWOAHM? I don't know that achronym so i can't comment on it.

New Wave Of American Heavy Metal. Bands that are apparently responsible for putting American heavy metal back on the map or something; Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, A7X, All That Remains, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWOAHM

I'm not even going to respond to that with anything besides:

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 18:45

The guy quoted Wikipedia... I'm not even going to bother to read his posts seriously.

I didn't quote Wikipedia because it is the ultimate source of all knowledge. I quoted it to make a point that many people unfamiliar with the myriad of metal tags these days and wanting to know what the hell Metalgaze is are probably going to Google it, and one of the very first results comes up under the Wiki definition is "Post-Metal" or at least that Metalgaze is interchangeable with Post-Metal. Sheeesh! Seems like I really struck a nerve with this post. And if you care to browse through many of the descriptions of the bands in these categories, quite a few of them are described with words like "post-rock influences" and "pounding post-metal doom riffs" and "mixture of sludge, drone, and doom" and "thanks to some Sludge and Doom seasonings" and the like. So if Metalstorm is using these phrases to describe Metalgaze and Post-Metal bands what is someone unfamiliar with most of these bands to think about their sound? There have been a few comments about how these genres are in no way related to Doom. If that is indeed the case, why use doom to describe them? Not all of us are Metalgaze or Post-metal experts here, so maybe you who are could come to a consensus about how to define Metalgaze and Post-Metal without contradicting yourselves and throw the rest of us a bone. I find it quite amusing that some commentators on here are so up in arms...

I appreciate MoraWintersoul for some good feedback and thoughts though. Thanks.

Written by Garth Vader on 04.02.2012 at 19:50

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 18:45

The guy quoted Wikipedia... I'm not even going to bother to read his posts seriously.

comment

I don't see it as much as contradiccion like you do. In case of Corrupted for example, the band started as quite an extreme doom act but with their latest album the band left their original sound and added more reference to post-rock influences while still having some doom ambience overall.

The thing is that just because the albums have doom influences doesn't make them doom, you have to understand that. Otherwise I would use that logic so i could easily point out bands like Autopsy or Asphyx as doom but if you listen to them, they are as death as they can be... Or just because Toxic Holocaust gives one nod or two to Black Metal that doesn't make it black right...?

Now with "metalgaze"... Is just Metal with Shoegaze blended in the mix. There's nothing more to it that's why I don't see the point in explaining anything more than that. I get the feeling you don't know a lot (if anything) about doom and that's the reason to your questions but you have to understand that just by clicking to the links in the metalgaze category... You'll see they have NOTHING to do with doom. Shoegaze have relations with post-rock... but again... take your time to actually listen to the categories and you'll see that metalgaze isn't anything like the post-metal category. Shoegaze is basically a type of pop that was also called "dream pop", quite popular between the 80s and 90s. Also.... Avoid the thought of post-metal = post-rock but with metal.... because it's not really like that either. When you listen to post-rock bands.... and switch to post-metal, the differences are damn obvious.

The connection between metalgaze and post-metal that wikipedia writes is just painful to read to be honest.
About Post metal.... Post metal is basically a huge pool of sludge/stoner/hardcore/prog/tribal stuff that may or may not have doom touches here and there but again, just because there's a nod to doom that doesn't make it doom or any contradiccion in the writeup, you can obviously still name the influences.... If I say that this black metal use some flute and other folk passages here and there, they are still black and should go there.

Actually... I'm even going to quote something from wiki too but this actually makes some sense, which differ from the rest of the stuff wiki says most of the time.

Quote:
As a label, some see post-metal as redundant, since some bands listed as post-metal contain many elements similar to doom metal, progressive metal, sludge metal, and stoner metal. Others, however, argue that these elements have been combined and altered in ways that go beyond the boundaries of those respective genres, creating the need for a single, distinguishing label.

I didn't want to sound agressive, sorry for that... but you have no idea how wrong you are when you say "one-sided".
Cheers.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 19:19

I'm not even going to respond to that with anything besides:

Exactly...

I'd love to know what retard voted Lulu in the BM category...

Written by psykometal on 05.02.2012 at 01:25

I'd love to know what retard voted Lulu in the BM category...

haha, instead of a retard I'd call that person an awesome troll.

Written by Grody2themax on 05.02.2012 at 01:42

haha, instead of a retard I'd call that person an awesome troll.

No, a retard. Because the Staff [I'm sure] are not going to appreciate their hard work and labor being shit upon by somebody trying to be funny. And I can almost guarantee you that if Staff can see who did it, that person is sure to come under heavy scrutiny; hell BitterCOld might even put some kind of ban on their account for it (so if you're trying to "anonymously" defend/explain yourself, don't be surprised if something bad happens to your profile sometime in the next month ).

Written by psykometal on 05.02.2012 at 01:47

Written by Grody2themax on 05.02.2012 at 01:42

haha, instead of a retard I'd call that person an awesome troll.

No, a retard. Because the Staff [I'm sure] are not going to appreciate their hard work and labor being shit upon by somebody trying to be funny. And I can almost guarantee you that if Staff can see who did it, that person is sure to come under heavy scrutiny; hell BitterCOld might even put some kind of ban on their account for it (so if you're trying to "anonymously" defend/explain yourself, don't be surprised if something bad happens to your profile sometime in the next month ).

I actually just thought it was funny and no it wasn't me. Anyways its not a big deal, if I was part of the staff and set up the whole thing I'd probably think a little thing like that was pretty funny. Don't take this as a lack of respect for the staff, but keep up the good work of irrationally trying to defend the staff over nothing and maybe you'll fulfill your dream of becoming a staff member one day. Kudos

Written by Grody2themax on 05.02.2012 at 02:18

I actually just thought it was funny and no it wasn't me. Anyways its not a big deal, if I was part of the staff and set up the whole thing I'd probably think a little thing like that was pretty funny. Don't take this as a lack of respect for the staff, but keep up the good work of irrationally trying to defend the staff over nothing and maybe you'll fulfill your dream of becoming a staff member one day. Kudos

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not even one of the who put in all the hard work to create the MS Awards and I don't find it funny at all, and knowing what I know about some of the Staff members and reading all the posts from several Staff members expressing their distaste with the users who have been complaining about this and that with the Awards (including the several who have stated over and over that random votes will get nuked), I doubt they will appreciate the troll either (some of them might but I doubt it).

And I'm not sucking up to Staff, I genuinely understand how hard things like this can be to set up so I sympathize with them for it and I know that I wouldn't appreciate someone not taking my hard work and effort seriously.

Written by psykometal on 05.02.2012 at 01:47

Written by Grody2themax on 05.02.2012 at 01:42

haha, instead of a retard I'd call that person an awesome troll.

No, a retard. Because the Staff [I'm sure] are not going to appreciate their hard work and labor being shit upon by somebody trying to be funny. And I can almost guarantee you that if Staff can see who did it, that person is sure to come under heavy scrutiny; hell BitterCOld might even put some kind of ban on their account for it (so if you're trying to "anonymously" defend/explain yourself, don't be surprised if something bad happens to your profile sometime in the next month ).

uh, no. i'd delete the vote. or rather wait until voting is done, then delete it so the user loses out on the ability to vote in that category.

Written by BitterCOld on 05.02.2012 at 03:00

uh, no. i'd delete the vote. or rather wait until voting is done, then delete it so the user loses out on the ability to vote in that category.

Well that was a joke. Just playing off your notoriously "brutal" reputation...

Why both Blut Aus Nord's albums are nominated? not that I'm against it, but just sayin.. maybe another band deserved that spot.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 19:59

Written by Garth Vader on 04.02.2012 at 19:50

Written by X-Ray Rod on 04.02.2012 at 18:45

The guy quoted Wikipedia... I'm not even going to bother to read his posts seriously.

comment

I don't see it as much as contradiccion like you do. In case of Corrupted for example, the band started as quite an extreme doom act but with their latest album the band left their original sound and added more reference to post-rock influences while still having some doom ambience overall.

The thing is that just because the albums have doom influences doesn't make them doom, you have to understand that. Otherwise I would use that logic so i could easily point out bands like Autopsy or Asphyx as doom but if you listen to them, they are as death as they can be... Or just because Toxic Holocaust gives one nod or two to Black Metal that doesn't make it black right...?

Now with "metalgaze"... Is just Metal with Shoegaze blended in the mix. There's nothing more to it that's why I don't see the point in explaining anything more than that. I get the feeling you don't know a lot (if anything) about doom and that's the reason to your questions but you have to understand that just by clicking to the links in the metalgaze category... You'll see they have NOTHING to do with doom. Shoegaze have relations with post-rock... but again... take your time to actually listen to the categories and you'll see that metalgaze isn't anything like the post-metal category. Shoegaze is basically a type of pop that was also called "dream pop", quite popular between the 80s and 90s. Also.... Avoid the thought of post-metal = post-rock but with metal.... because it's not really like that either. When you listen to post-rock bands.... and switch to post-metal, the differences are damn obvious.

The connection between metalgaze and post-metal that wikipedia writes is just painful to read to be honest.
About Post metal.... Post metal is basically a huge pool of sludge/stoner/hardcore/prog/tribal stuff that may or may not have doom touches here and there but again, just because there's a nod to doom that doesn't make it doom or any contradiccion in the writeup, you can obviously still name the influences.... If I say that this black metal use some flute and other folk passages here and there, they are still black and should go there.

Actually... I'm even going to quote something from wiki too but this actually makes some sense, which differ from the rest of the stuff wiki says most of the time.

Quote:
As a label, some see post-metal as redundant, since some bands listed as post-metal contain many elements similar to doom metal, progressive metal, sludge metal, and stoner metal. Others, however, argue that these elements have been combined and altered in ways that go beyond the boundaries of those respective genres, creating the need for a single, distinguishing label.

I didn't want to sound agressive, sorry for that... but you have no idea how wrong you are when you say "one-sided".
Cheers.

Hey thanks for spending to time to clear up some of the confusion and write your thoughts. I think that there are quite a few people who are not super familiar with all the tags that seem to sprout up every year into these kinds of polls, I'll admit to being one of them and although I have listened to quite a few of the bands listed under each category I still hear so many influences that come from various genres and to those of us who don't follow these scenes as closely as the faithful do, sometimes we tend to group them into a category that seems to fit. My experience with doom goes back to the Trouble era and while I have a grasp on doom in general, I don't follow it closely these days. I "get" influences when you say there is doom influence in post-metal. I get that it doesn't mean post-metal is doom. I also understand that it is no small feat to put a poll like this together and that there must be a ton of debate about whom to include. Once it gets posted from the staff though it also must be debated by the community and that is what we are doing here. I think it's healthy, and what the very idea about a poll is. No hard feelings. My initial reaction was actually related to the lack of more options in say the Death Metal category as I was wondering why Tech Death was absent and why Progressive wasn't expanded a little more. Kudos to the staff for getting this all together.

Written by psykometal on 05.02.2012 at 01:25

I'd love to know what retard voted Lulu in the BM category...

Oh I don't know.... Let's see. Hellish vocals, hellish musical performance, hellish ratings and reviews, and hellishly funny videos on youtube making fun of it all. What could be more BM?

Written by Garth Vader on 05.02.2012 at 05:16
No hard feelings. My initial reaction was actually related to the lack of more options in say the Death Metal category as I was wondering why Tech Death was absent and why Progressive wasn't expanded a little more. Kudos to the staff for getting this all together.

No hard feelings either Also, Like I said top JD (I think it was him) I'll try to discuss with the others about tech death which seems like the most concrete idea of a new category so far once we start working with the 2012.

Written by Guest on 05.02.2012 at 03:48

Why both Blut Aus Nord's albums are nominated? not that I'm against it, but just sayin.. maybe another band deserved that spot.

Simple: They both got in through the vote process to the best 10.

Written by Grody2themax on 05.02.2012 at 01:42

Written by psykometal on 05.02.2012 at 01:25

I'd love to know what retard voted Lulu in the BM category...

haha, instead of a retard I'd call that person an awesome troll.

That person is not even a troll but an ultimate whore who just doesn't know what Metal is all about or may be a big president of "sham-bitches". getting an opportunity to vote for our favorite album is one of the very big thing you getting in MS, rather wasting like anything..that guy should delete his/her account--a purified asshole. Anyways, I won't waste mine like that.

I love how someone wrote in Unforgiven in the Symphonic metal category even though it is already nominated. Blindness at its best.

Damn, is there always this much anal impairment at award season? Maybe it would be better to just have write in's...

Written by Guest on 06.02.2012 at 07:53

Damn, is there always this much anal impairment at award season? Maybe it would be better to just have write in's...

Then every album would get 3 different votes from people not spelling them properly (3 different Lulus in bigest letdown and 2 for the new Megadeth in thrash).

Oh, and Omit would go in normal doom, right?

Written by Guest on 06.02.2012 at 07:53

Damn, is there always this much anal impairment at award season? Maybe it would be better to just have write in's...

We learn to love it instead of being overwhelmed by it.

Written by M C Vice on 06.02.2012 at 10:45

Written by Guest on 06.02.2012 at 07:53

Damn, is there always this much anal impairment at award season? Maybe it would be better to just have write in's...

from people not spelling them properly (3 different Lulus in bigest letdown...

Just like you misspell "bigest"?

I have hope, that Symphony X will win progressive metal of the year. Other result will surprise.

Written by Garth Vader on 03.02.2012 at 06:25

Why the hell are there four, count them... FOUR genres for DOOM?? Really? We need Doom, Extreme Doom, Metalgaze (wtf is that, other than, oh right... doom) and Post Metal (glorified technical doom).

Let's not forget heavy metal (sped up doom), gothic metal (soft doom) and stoner/sludge (THC-infused doom).

Written by Promonex on 06.02.2012 at 19:21

Written by Garth Vader on 03.02.2012 at 06:25

Why the hell are there four, count them... FOUR genres for DOOM?? Really? We need Doom, Extreme Doom, Metalgaze (wtf is that, other than, oh right... doom) and Post Metal (glorified technical doom).

Let's not forget heavy metal (sped up doom), gothic metal (soft doom) and stoner/sludge (THC-infused doom).

but then again stoner/sludge has way more to do with doom than metalgaze and post metal