Written by Guest on 05.11.2014 at 23:35

Feel free to respond how you like, but I would encourage you not to preface every one of your opinions with the faux shock, disgust, distaste, sympathy you to seem to revel in. Frankly I would say it hurts any case you try to make and makes you sound immature and whiny. Feel free to carry on though. I look forward to your next "WTF!? Why isn't x-band in this list?!" comment. It's so genuine

To be honest I feel like everything you said really reallllyyyy needed to be said. So THANKS JOE.
Also I'm with you on having difficulty deciding which of Darkspace's two latest is superior. They're both so goddamn fantastic

Written by Alex F on 06.11.2014 at 15:52

To be honest I feel like everything you said really reallllyyyy needed to be said. So THANKS JOE.
Also I'm with you on having difficulty deciding which of Darkspace's two latest is superior. They're both so goddamn fantastic

I also still really hella like that remix EP of the demo they released. I realise now I should probably give II some time too, I can't even remember what it sounds like.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 02:46

Guys, can't we all just agree that this album is better than Spectral Lore's?

Nope

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 17:19

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 02:46

Guys, can't we all just agree that this album is better than Spectral Lore's?

Nope

Yes we can, unless you think I, Voidhanger only releases stellar stuff.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 06.11.2014 at 17:25

Yes we can, unless you think I, Voidhanger only releases stellar stuff.

Only the majority of the 2014 releases Everything before that is hit or miss.

But don't get me wrong, this is still a solid album. I just like the Spectral Lore release better (though I prefer Sentinel over III...cue Erik bitching about 30 min ambient track...) mainly because this album had 3 nearly identical albums before this one

The Sentinel is defintely a good album, I can agree. Way better than III (SL's album), but still doesn't come close to most of Darkspace's discography.

Written by Guest on 05.11.2014 at 23:35

If you can't learn to forum then perhaps you shouldn't join discussions. "I thinks" and "in my opinions" are totally unnecessary when discussing opinions on music. I'm not going to preface everything I say just to protect the sensitive.

Lol, so "forum" is a verb now, is it?

Anyway, you're wrong. Saying "in my opinion" or "I think" when it's necessary only decreases the chance people will be confused by your statements/get the wrong idea of your statements. Good example is exactly this discussion. If you weren't stating your opinion on Spectral Lore so objectively like you did, then I wouldn't have taken issue with your words (and probably wouldn't even have replied to it). Funnily you're saying that what you said is your opinion, yet you word it objectively. Using "IMO" only clarifies that you're not talking objectively about something. It's extremely little effort as well to do so. Anyway, your choice to use or not use it, but I'd rather be as clear as possible without assuming that people know what I mean just because I know exactly what I mean.

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Once again you aren't understanding my point. I'm not talking about popularity. I was suggesting that I think (there you go) that Spectral Lore's sound is very much lowest common denominator type black metal that would appeal to lot of people that have a specific like of that type of music. I then went on to say that it does little for me because it doesn't sound interesting or unique enough. At no point did I talk about how popular the band is, only that the type of music it plays would be ideal for mass consumption because it's frankly quite generic, albeit not awful.

I did understand that. I just wanted to point out that DS is a more popular band than SL. Yes, SL has a more accessible sound than DS, that's true, but I disagree with calling them generic simply because you don't think they're interesting/unique (enough). Fine by me if that's your opinion though, because I happen to think they are interesting and unique.

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Feel free to respond how you like, but I would encourage you not to preface every one of your opinions with the faux shock, disgust, distaste, sympathy you to seem to revel in. Frankly I would say it hurts any case you try to make and makes you sound immature and whiny. Feel free to carry on though.

Well, criticising my way of stating my opinions the way you do it makes you sound rather arrogant and also belittling, so there's that.

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I look forward to your next "WTF!? Why isn't x-band in this list?!" comment. It's so genuine

The only reason you bring this up is probably because I made a comment like that on Che's new list. So it doesn't have any relevance in this discussion, not to mention lists are meant to be discussed. So commenting on a list and suggestion a band is a totally normal thing to do, so again I don't see why you would bring this up.

Written by Karlabos on 06.11.2014 at 01:33

You sure eat popcorn a lot, eh?

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 02:46

Guys, can't we all just agree that this album is better than Spectral Lore's?

Well, if you bothered to read my posts, then you'd know I'd never agree with that. Tough luck.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 17:19

Nope

Hah, finally someone who agrees with me.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 17:34

Only the majority of the 2014 releases Everything before that is hit or miss.

But don't get me wrong, this is still a solid album. I just like the Spectral Lore release better (though I prefer Sentinel over III...cue Erik bitching about 30 min ambient track...) mainly because this album had 3 nearly identical albums before this one

Yeah, for some reason people assume I dislike this album yet I think it's very good (hence my 8 score for it). It's like you said, I also think SL is the better of the two.

And yeah, sound-wise even between different albums, DS seems to be pretty limited. Again, that doesn't mean I dislike those albums, but it does make them less interesting to me than a band such as Spectral Lore which have a more interesting sound I'd say. Great blend of spacey atmospheric/ambient and raw BM. And about Sentinel, I only really disliked that last part. Everything before it was awesome. Overall still better than this album for sure, but not better than III.

Oh, and I just realized Marcel is now Ozman, lol.

Written by Erik M. on 06.11.2014 at 23:08

Lol, so "forum" is a verb now, is it?

This isn't my discussion, but "learn to x" as in "learn to internet" is internet lingo. Noob .

Written by Erik M. on 06.11.2014 at 23:08

Anyway, you're wrong. Saying "in my opinion" or "I think" when it's necessary only decreases the chance people will be confused by your statements/get the wrong idea of your statements. Good example is exactly this discussion. If you weren't stating your opinion on Spectral Lore so objectively like you did, then I wouldn't have taken issue with your words (and probably wouldn't even have replied to it). Funnily you're saying that what you said is your opinion, yet you word it objectively. Using "IMO" only clarifies that you're not talking objectively about something. It's extremely little effort as well to do so. Anyway, your choice to use or not use it, but I'd rather be as clear as possible without assuming that people know what I mean just because I know exactly what I mean.

Sorry, but for me to be "wrong" implies that I could have been talking objectively about the subject at hand. The fact is, as you and I know, that comments about musical identity, originality, quality etc. can only ever be subjective in nature. Whether or not I put "imo" etc. doesn't change that very nature. I've no doubt written hundreds, if not thousands, of similar comments on here that took the same form and I've almost never been questioned on it in this way, and that's because people have a basic understanding of the principles of forums and the nature it takes. It seems relatively clear to me that you're questioning me on this because of an emotional reaction you had to what I wrote. That is your problem and yours alone. It reminds me of people who complain on reviews that they wren't more "objective" and not something I'm going to pander to. If you can't tell an opinion when it can only possibly be an opinion then that's something you need to work on.

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Well, criticising my way of stating my opinions the way you do it makes you sound rather arrogant and also belittling, so there's that.

I'd rather come across that way than someone who appears to try and use emotional manipulation to marginalise people's opinions, or at the very least, is whiny about them

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The only reason you bring this up is probably because I made a comment like that on Che's new list. So it doesn't have any relevance in this discussion, not to mention lists are meant to be discussed. So commenting on a list and suggestion a band is a totally normal thing to do, so again I don't see why you would bring this up.

Actually it isn't, I was remembering your comment on Mary's list the other day. Ctrl + F "WTF" this page and see what I mean: http://metalstorm.net/forum/search.php?forumsearch=WTF&user_name=Erik+M.&new_board_id=&searchwhere=posts

It's only relevant insofar as I was mocking you on the matter to make light of the situation. However it does implicitly relate to what I still think is poor form and lacking etiquette and courtesy to inform people that their opinions make you cringe or that you feel sorry for them, or overtly exaggerating emotion at an album being missing from a list that you consider vital. I'm sure it is just your way of presenting yourself but the frequency it happens does often make me think of a child who's trying to get their way.

Written by Alex F on 06.11.2014 at 15:52


To be honest I feel like everything you said really reallllyyyy needed to be said. So THANKS JOE.
Also I'm with you on having difficulty deciding which of Darkspace's two latest is superior. They're both so goddamn fantastic

but is there really anything you do disagree with jooe about

Erik. Please. 99% of what's said on MS in relation to (the quality of) music is subjective.
Also this album is better and more unique than SL. (and for the record, I think SL's III is great, but it doesn't even come close to this album)

Written by Erik M. on 06.11.2014 at 23:08

Hah, finally someone who agrees with me.

As a side note I noticed that you two have already agreed on other albums too/ so no big surprise but here's the news I agree with you two on this.

Written by Erik M. on 06.11.2014 at 23:08

Oh, and I just realized Marcel is now Ozman, lol.

He was before too.

Written by Guest on 07.11.2014 at 05:32

but is there really anything you do disagree with jooe about

Well for one The Mantle is one of my all time favorite albums, and I know he doesn't like it. Also I think The Meads Of Asphodel are pretty shit

Written by Alex F on 07.11.2014 at 18:36

Also I think The Meads Of Asphodel are pretty shit

You lowered a degree on my concept now

(btwnicerecordtheDarkspaceoneheh?)

Written by Karlabos on 07.11.2014 at 21:53

You lowered a degree on my concept now

(btwnicerecordtheDarkspaceoneheh?)

I'm sure he meant shit-hot but just collapsed at his computer from the exhausting spectacle this thread turned into before he could finish the sentence

Written by Karlabos on 07.11.2014 at 21:53

(btwnicerecordtheDarkspaceoneheh?)

Lol to get back on topic, yes, I adore this album. Easily my favorite album of the year, and probably my favorite of the past 3 to 4 years

Written by Ilham on 06.11.2014 at 23:36

This isn't my discussion, but "learn to x" as in "learn to internet" is internet lingo. Noob .

Can't talk myself out of this one it seems.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2014 at 23:57

Sorry, but for me to be "wrong" implies that I could have been talking objectively about the subject at hand. The fact is, as you and I know, that comments about musical identity, originality, quality etc. can only ever be subjective in nature. Whether or not I put "imo" etc. doesn't change that very nature. I've no doubt written hundreds, if not thousands, of similar comments on here that took the same form and I've almost never been questioned on it in this way, and that's because people have a basic understanding of the principles of forums and the nature it takes. It seems relatively clear to me that you're questioning me on this because of an emotional reaction you had to what I wrote. That is your problem and yours alone. It reminds me of people who complain on reviews that they wren't more "objective" and not something I'm going to pander to. If you can't tell an opinion when it can only possibly be an opinion then that's something you need to work on.

The "subject at hand" is whether it's necessary/useful to use "in my opinion" in certain cases. You easily could have been talking objectively about music. Saying it's always totally subjective is a contradiction on your part, because (for instance) you previously said that if you call an album overrated it is objectively done so. Just an example of why it's simply a good idea to use "IMO", either to differentiate between objective/subjective statements, or simply to express your opinion a little more. And lets be honest, how much trouble is it to use "in my opinion"?

You can keep coming up with arguments about this, but the fact remains that using "in my opinion" can only increase the readability of your posts and decrease the chance of people being confused by your statements.

Once again, saying that everything (musical identity, originality, quality etc., like you said) about music is entirely subjective is just plain wrong. Objectivity definitely is a part of those things and I think you know it (yet don't ackowledge it here).

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I'd rather come across that way than someone who appears to try and use emotional manipulation to marginalise people's opinions, or at the very least, is whiny about them

Nope, like I said it's fine by me if you don't like that SL album (or any other album), as it's your opinion.

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Actually it isn't, I was remembering your comment on Mary's list the other day. Ctrl + F "WTF" this page and see what I mean: http://metalstorm.net/forum/search.php?forumsearch=WTF&user_name=Erik+M.&new_board_id=&searchwhere=posts

It's only relevant insofar as I was mocking you on the matter to make light of the situation. However it does implicitly relate to what I still think is poor form and lacking etiquette and courtesy to inform people that their opinions make you cringe or that you feel sorry for them, or overtly exaggerating emotion at an album being missing from a list that you consider vital. I'm sure it is just your way of presenting yourself but the frequency it happens does often make me think of a child who's trying to get their way.

Yeah, and we've been over this. The fact that you're repeating yourself now tells me you don't really have any good argument left. And the "WTF" in that comment is just to express how surprised I am by the lack of that album in the list (and rightly so if you ask me). If you're annoyed by that, then it's your problem, not mine. I'm not going to change the way I reply to stuff simply because you dislike the way I communicate and express my opinions. Deal with it.

Written by Guest on 07.11.2014 at 05:32

but is there really anything you do disagree with jooe about

Not much, that's for sure.

Written by Zap on 07.11.2014 at 15:43

Erik. Please. 99% of what's said on MS in relation to (the quality of) music is subjective.

Quality yes, but that's just one of multiple aspects. Like Joe said, there's also originality for instance. Whether something is original or not is certainly not entirely subjective. For example, if one listens to the new Blut Aus Nord album and it's that person's first BM album, it might sound original, hence it's an opinion. But objectively it's not original at all, seeing as there are clearly many BM albums before it with the same style.

Written by angel. on 07.11.2014 at 15:53

As a side note I noticed that you two have already agreed on other albums too/ so no big surprise but here's the news I agree with you two on this.

Yeah, I expected you to agree as well seeing as I know you also think SL - III is awesome.

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He was before too.

Yeah, for some reason that nickname sounds familiar. Maybe someone mentioned it on MS, but I'm fairly sure that it's from before I was active on MS (so 2-2.5 years ago).

Written by Erik M. on 07.11.2014 at 23:21
The "subject at hand" is whether it's necessary/useful to use "in my opinion" in certain cases. You easily could have been talking objectively about music. Saying it's always totally subjective is a contradiction on your part, because (for instance) you previously said that if you call an album overrated it is objectively done so. Just an example of why it's simply a good idea to use "IMO", either to differentiate between objective/subjective statements, or simply to express your opinion a little more. And lets be honest, how much trouble is it to use "in my opinion"? You can keep coming up with arguments about this, but the fact remains that using "in my opinion" can only increase the readability of your posts and decrease the chance of people being confused by your statements. Once again, saying that everything (musical identity, originality, quality etc., like you said) about music is entirely subjective is just plain wrong. Objectivity definitely is a part of those things and I think you know it (yet don't ackowledge it here).

Er, Ok Erik, you can keep running around in circles to trying to justify what was an asinine comment on your part if you want, but unfortunately for you it means you must have issue with 90%+ of the comments on the site, i.e the ones that don't use "imo" "I think" etc. so for that reason alone I'm not concerned that you have an issue with what I said. As you demonstrate on a practically daily basis you clearly have trouble with reading comprehension so I don't feel like it's something I have to change any time soon just to please the odd person that can't see the obvious.

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Yeah, and we've been over this. The fact that you're repeating yourself now tells me you don't really have any good argument left. And the "WTF" in that comment is just to express how surprised I am by the lack of that album in the list (and rightly so if you ask me). If you're annoyed by that, then it's your problem, not mine. I'm not going to change the way I reply to stuff simply because you dislike the way I communicate and express my opinions. Deal with it.

Believe me, this is not a discussion that requires "good argument." Common sense is all that's needed, and unfortunately I don't have the ability to instil it in people who act emotionally as you clearly have been. I needn't remind you that the annoyance stemmed from your lack of comprehension and I've already told you I'm not personally concerned with your conduct, rather it was a piece of advice.

Really though, you should just leave this as it is now as it's getting absurd and I'm becoming embarassed to even be a part of it.

Written by Guest on 08.11.2014 at 00:14

Er, Ok Erik, you can keep running around in circles to trying to justify what was an asinine comment on your part if you want, but unfortunately for you it means you must have issue with 90%+ of the comments on the site, i.e the ones that don't use "imo" "I think" etc. so for that reason alone I'm not concerned that you have an issue with what I said. As you demonstrate on a practically daily basis you clearly have trouble with reading comprehension so I don't feel like it's something I have to change any time soon just to please the odd person that can't see the obvious.

Nope, you got it all wrong. I admit I might have taken it a bit too far with the opinion matter, but I mainly took issue with your comment and then tried to explain WHY to me it seems like a good idea to use "in my opinion" every now and then, simply to make it clearer that you're expressing your opinion. I wasn't telling you to do just that. I was only trying to convince you that sometimes it can be a good thing to use when wording your opinions (you're probably right that most of the time it speaks for itself when something is an opinion or not, but that's besides the point as I was stating this generally). Sadly, you've proven to be too stubborn to get all this and you've resorted to ad hominem attacks, which is a bad way of debating in general. Not to mention you don't address quite a bit of what I wrote, which tells me you probably realized you were wrong but don't want to admit that. For example, the contradiction on your part which I pointed out (about overrated music). And also how you're wrong about that everything about music is subjective since that's clearly not the case. Lastly, you went on with giving your "advice" despite the fact that I told you I wasn't interested in it multiple times before.

Written by Erik M. on 08.11.2014 at 00:47

Nope, you got it all wrong. I admit I might have taken it a bit too far with the opinion matter, but I mainly took issue with your comment and then tried to explain WHY to me it seems like a good idea to use "in my opinion" every now and then, simply to make it clearer that you're expressing your opinion. I wasn't telling you to do just that. I was only trying to convince you that sometimes it can be a good thing to use when wording your opinions (you're probably right that most of the time it speaks for itself when something is an opinion or not, but that's besides the point as I was stating this generally). Sadly, you've proven to be too stubborn to get all this and you've resorted to ad hominem attacks, which is a bad way of debating in general. Not to mention you don't address quite a bit of what I wrote, which tells me you probably realized you were wrong but don't want to admit that. For example, the contradiction on your part which I pointed out (about overrated music). And also how you're wrong about that everything about music is subjective since that's clearly not the case. Lastly, you went on with giving your "advice" despite the fact that I told you I wasn't interested in it multiple times before.

My stubbornness derives from the fact I don't consider reductio ad absurdum to be a convincing argument. Nor does my evasion of your laboured straw man point concerning perceived objectivity in music mean that I'm wrong (and consistently telling me I'm wrong on that basis does not a good argument make either) because that would imply it is a likely possibility and one which should be considered (which I don't, hence the reason I'm not going to address it or I risk falling into your fallacious way of arguing). Trying to prove a point through extremes, such as the possibility that my comment could be taken objectively, is a straw man. You can knock that ersatz argument down time and time again if you wish but it doesn't allay the basic point that you were whining over a comment that really didn't need to be an issue for anyone in the first place that had basic reading comprehension (the first time I've received such a reply in 9, nearly 10, years of being on this site). I'm not wrong simply because you failed to see the blatantly obvious, or because you misappropriated the concept of "overratedness" from an entirely different discussion that was never even implied at in my original comment (hence the "straw man"), because using those as examples is a pretty hideous and shameful way to come across as being "right."

Tfw people post lengthy comments that just make them both look like pissants. This album is killer tho