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The attack on free speech, and censorship in metal.



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08.09.2017 - 07:38
Totenlieder

Right now things are heated when it comes to speech. Everywhere and music, especially metal is under attack by various leftist groups like Antifa.
This includes everything from concerts getting shut down because bands like Marduk and Inquisition have been accessed of being nazis or being sympathetic to nazi ideals. Just recently a band by the name of Nyogthaeblisz was recently kicked off of a show* due to the fact that they were accused of being white supremacists and nazis which is ironic due to the fact that they are Mexican. One reason because they have known to be anti semetic. This also brings up a hypocrisy problem. Be anti christian all you want but the moment you are anti islamic and anti judaism it's not allowed. This is rampant in the metal world. Next is labels. Hells Headbangers recently came under fire for having various nsbm bands on their label. Metalsucks posted the open letter to them ordering the cease and desist. Another label called Behold Barbarity which is one of the best small distros around, has recently been shut down due to the fact the owner of the label has put nsbm on the roster. His name, number, place of work, family members were all put online, exposed and he was shamed and defameted until he shut the distro down despite being a stand up guy. All those who know him know he's not a racist or nazi in anyway.
This doxxing and shutting down of free speech in metal is a threat to everyone. I believe that art has no boundaries. Music included. Extreme left or right, anti any religion, etc. From the murder, rape and necrophilia of death metal. Cop killing, fucking bitches and doing drugs of rap. To the anti judeo christian, nordic pride of black metal. All of it should be protected and havea platform for distribution. And it is possible to separate art from the artist. There's a difference between a band being against/for something and explicitly saying to their fans "do this specific thing"

*The band ended up playing the show under a different name without the venue knowing.
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Blut & Krieg
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10.09.2017 - 06:33
M C Vice
ex-polydactyl
Based on what happened to Marduk, I'm interested to see what happens to Mayhem in NA later this year.
----
"Another day, another Doug."
"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
" 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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15.09.2017 - 01:16
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Written by Totenlieder on 08.09.2017 at 07:38

Be anti christian all you want but the moment you are anti islamic and anti judaism it's not allowed.

This has always bugged me. What's so different between ns lyrics and lyrics against other religions?
Also if we are going to censor what is "bad" why do we even allow goregrind? We should ban the genre...

We live in a time where people want to please all the minorities and are forgetting the sense of the free speech. That doesn't apply only to metal, unfortunately. Yeah, totally agree art should be left alone, otherwise it's just one of those dictatorships where singers need to sing their lyrics in codes because if they actually want to express what they feel they are censored. But yeah... it's not up to me or you apparently
----
"Aah! The cat turned into a cat!"
- Reimu Hakurei
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15.09.2017 - 11:03
Ganondox

NSBM bands don't just have hate speech in their lyrics, a lot of them are connected with active violence. Remember this site doesn't even allow such bands.
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15.09.2017 - 12:22
Polaria

There is a vast difference between bands mistakenly taken as Nazis and bands that are actually promoting Nazi "ideals".

For those who forgot where those "ideals" led to: "The Holocaust was a genocide in which some six million European Jews were killed by Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and its World War II collaborators. The victims included 1.5 million children, and constituted about two-thirds of the nine million Jews who had previously resided in Continental Europe. (Wikipedia)".
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Life is all the pain we endeavour.
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15.09.2017 - 12:35
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Karlabos on 15.09.2017 at 01:16

Written by Totenlieder on 08.09.2017 at 07:38

Be anti christian all you want but the moment you are anti islamic and anti judaism it's not allowed.

This has always bugged me. What's so different between ns lyrics and lyrics against other religions?
Also if we are going to censor what is "bad" why do we even allow goregrind? We should ban the genre...

We live in a time where people want to please all the minorities and are forgetting the sense of the free speech. That doesn't apply only to metal, unfortunately. Yeah, totally agree art should be left alone, otherwise it's just one of those dictatorships where singers need to sing their lyrics in codes because if they actually want to express what they feel they are censored. But yeah... it's not up to me or you apparently


NS lyrics are mainly against the Jewish people, not an attack on Judaism. Also a band as Arghoslent is banned for their lyrics against 'negroes'. Same would happen if a band is anti-Arab. No problems with being anti-religious (which 99% of the NS aren't btw) But it is a problem (for us the staff) if a band is against a race or peoples. For one can't choose what race etc. one is born is into whereas religion is a choice.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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15.09.2017 - 12:36
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Polaria on 15.09.2017 at 12:22

There is a vast difference between bands mistakenly taken as Nazis and bands that are actually promoting Nazi "ideals".

For those who forgot where those "ideals" led to: "The Holocaust was a genocide in which some six million European Jews were killed by Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and its World War II collaborators. The victims included 1.5 million children, and constituted about two-thirds of the nine million Jews who had previously resided in Continental Europe. (Wikipedia)".


And it is the Jewish people Hitler tried to eradicate and had nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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15.09.2017 - 15:22
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Even if the lyrics are about genocide and against a direct group of people instead of a religion... It's just lyrics. What about the free speech? Plus it contradicts with brutal death and grindcore lyrics which also are about genocide/rape/female degradation and still nobody seems to give a damn.

Not saying brutal death should be banned or anything, just trying to make a point that having bad lyrics, for worse they are, doesn't really mean much
----
"Aah! The cat turned into a cat!"
- Reimu Hakurei
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15.09.2017 - 22:18
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
*bangs head against wall for the total ignorance on display*
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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15.09.2017 - 22:51
VIG
Account deleted
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.09.2017 at 12:35

NS lyrics are mainly against the Jewish people, not an attack on Judaism. Also a band as Arghoslent is banned for their lyrics against 'negroes'. Same would happen if a band is anti-Arab. No problems with being anti-religious (which 99% of the NS aren't btw) But it is a problem (for us the staff) if a band is against a race or peoples. For one can't choose what race etc. one is born is into whereas religion is a choice.


This.
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15.09.2017 - 22:52
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Karlabos on 15.09.2017 at 15:22



Not saying brutal death should be banned or anything, just trying to make a point that having bad lyrics, for worse they are, doesn't really mean much


who cares about BDM lyric anyway, and NS they are nor ateritical but I prefer read ''I cum spermless blood in nuns anus and sodomazing the pedophile priest'' as ''shout the black boy, make your race proud'' BDM not many actually can try do what band sings, if they well they are retards, but NS lyrics, many followers can actually follow and act
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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15.09.2017 - 22:55
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Karlabos on 15.09.2017 at 15:22

Even if the lyrics are about genocide and against a direct group of people instead of a religion... It's just lyrics. What about the free speech? Plus it contradicts with brutal death and grindcore lyrics which also are about genocide/rape/female degradation and still nobody seems to give a damn.

Not saying brutal death should be banned or anything, just trying to make a point that having bad lyrics, for worse they are, doesn't really mean much


Like I said just now *bangs head against wall for the total ignorance on display* ar you really that stupid or thick you don't want to see what people are trying to say?

NSBM bands even use violent force and such whereas the others don't. Buut then again ou're form Brazil so you haven't experienced this sort of neo nazism firsthand.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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16.09.2017 - 00:31
Vombatus
Potorro
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.09.2017 at 22:55

NSBM bands even use violent force and such whereas the others don't. Buut then again ou're form Brazil so you haven't experienced this sort of neo nazism firsthand.


Of course he didn't, they even welcome good ol' 3rd reich figures down there jk.


But regarding the use of "violence and such". If some braindead left-winged guy (like antifa for example) also applies the use of violence as support to the lyric content, should his music get banned? Or a goregrind guy being a murderer/rapist/pedo makes his music condemnable because he took the step to apply the content of his lyrics?

On a broader term beyond MS, the "scale of importance" that people want to apply when mixing lyrics and censorship with use of violence is... interesting. I guess that with some topics it is "ok" while others are "not so ok". Is attacking inherent characteristics the only applicable case? So promoting coupled with active use of violence against an opinion/religion/social condition needs no censorship? (yeah, coz it's a personal opinion, right? Let's beat the shit out of him!). Who draws the line?


Btw, I am not taking sides nor do I care if NSBM gets banned (...just in case).
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16.09.2017 - 06:58
M C Vice
ex-polydactyl
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.09.2017 at 12:36

Written by Polaria on 15.09.2017 at 12:22

There is a vast difference between bands mistakenly taken as Nazis and bands that are actually promoting Nazi "ideals".

For those who forgot where those "ideals" led to: "The Holocaust was a genocide in which some six million European Jews were killed by Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and its World War II collaborators. The victims included 1.5 million children, and constituted about two-thirds of the nine million Jews who had previously resided in Continental Europe. (Wikipedia)".


And it is the Jewish people Hitler tried to eradicate and had nothing to do with religion whatsoever.

Don't forget the gypsies, gays and disabled folks he had killed, too.
----
"Another day, another Doug."
"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
" 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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16.09.2017 - 12:38
nikarg

Freedom of speech is great, but there are boundaries that should not be crossed. I hate political correctness, but nazi actions are very real and have been proven to be humanity's worst exhibition of atrocity. Dismissing this type of ideology is a matter that should concern everyone, it's not restricted to the so-called leftist groups (many of which are the other side of the same coin really). This is just common sense, especially now when this type of stupidity seems to be rapidly expanding throughout Europe again. British documentary "The World At War" is a good place to start, if you are unaware of what happened not so long ago. I'm all for MetalStorm's policy of banning these bands; even though I like some of NSBM bands' music, I can't be bothered to listen to a dickhead promoting ideas that nearly reduced the continent I live in (and the whole world for that matter) to ashes. Just the fact that we are really debating about this is preposterous.
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16.09.2017 - 13:52
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by M C Vice on 16.09.2017 at 06:58


Don't forget the gypsies, gays and disabled folks he had killed, too.


Didn't forget them. Btw neo nazis attack gays all the time in eastern Europe. So, nothing has changed.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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16.09.2017 - 14:42
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.09.2017 at 22:55

NSBM bands even use violent force and such whereas the others don't. Buut then again ou're form Brazil so you haven't experienced this sort of neo nazism firsthand.

It's true I don't see neo nazi attacks here in Brazil. If you say NS bands use force instead of just lyrics then I believe the boycott is indeed justified, since it's not just a free speech matter anymore.
However do the actual band members use force though? You'd think if in the metal industry the matter with NS bands being violent was that much of a problem then there would be so many news on the subject, especially on metal webzines and such. But I don't read many news like "band x members started an attack and left y people heavily injured..." Unless those kinds of news are also supressed?

Written by Vombatus on 16.09.2017 at 00:31

The "scale of importance" that people want to apply when mixing lyrics and censorship with use of violence is... interesting. I guess that with some topics it is "ok" while others are "not so ok". Is attacking inherent characteristics the only applicable case? So promoting coupled with active use of violence against an opinion/religion/social condition needs no censorship? (yeah, coz it's a personal opinion, right? Let's beat the shit out of him!). Who draws the line?

Yeah, if the purpose of censorship was to prevent the promotion of violence, the anti-religion themes should also be censored since they also generate violence. For instance there were churches burned when black metal was considered a satanic thing back in the 90s... So I guess some topics are ok and others just are not
----
"Aah! The cat turned into a cat!"
- Reimu Hakurei
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16.09.2017 - 15:48
nikarg

Written by Karlabos on 16.09.2017 at 14:42

Yeah, if the purpose of censorship was to prevent the promotion of violence, the anti-religion themes should also be censored since they also generate violence. For instance there were churches burned when black metal was considered a satanic thing back in the 90s... So I guess some topics are ok and others just are not

If you don't see the difference between burning buildings and brutally killing millions of people just because they belong to a certain race or ethnicity, then there is not much left to say. But you are right in one thing, "some topics are ok and others just are not" and there is perfect justification for this.
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16.09.2017 - 17:25
Vombatus
Potorro
If you are going to go the quantitative way to establish a certain threshold to determine what is condemnable or not with the basis of mass murder of 6 million people is worse than anything... Well, you can bring up dozens of regimes that did similar, sometimes not as much but sometimes even worse. Of course, most of these ones were based on religion, idiology, social condition or simply thinking differently. Not ethnic origin, so it is ok to promote murder (as some bands do) because the victims decided to voluntarly not agree with others.... Their fault, right? It is quite creepy if explained this way.

I understand that for most people, the key component is that there must be a past component and subsequent mea culpa to be considered censurable. If possible, keep it fresh in the memory so that collective guilty is strong. Which is fine for me, if people want to think that way.
Until mass murder happens, it is ok to promote violence against a group. Actually sometimes it already happened and still happens, but since it got "forgotten/ignored" and the collective guilt is not strong, no one gives a shit.... I guess if it's based on religion or idiology it is alright. Their opinion, they asked for it!

Ethnic origin or skin colour is indissociable of the person, but not religion or social condition. Yet if we observe certain places or conditions in the past, one quickly notices that religion or social condition can also be considered as an intrinsicate characteristic which is mostly impossible to change (you are born in it, and stay in it). By deduction, attacking their religion/social condition/whatever through lyrics and promoting violence against is just as bad as reclaiming ethnic cleansing, based on the standard defended around here. I guess the breaking point is to check a History book to see if they ever suffered mass murder? Flawed logic.
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16.09.2017 - 17:42
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Written by nikarg on 16.09.2017 at 15:48

the difference between burning buildings and brutally killing millions of people

Of course the latter is far worse than the former. But the thing is: I never saw a band brutally killing millions of people.
One thing is to kill, other thing is to just sing about it
----
"Aah! The cat turned into a cat!"
- Reimu Hakurei
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16.09.2017 - 22:56
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by nikarg on 16.09.2017 at 15:48

Written by Karlabos on 16.09.2017 at 14:42

Yeah, if the purpose of censorship was to prevent the promotion of violence, the anti-religion themes should also be censored since they also generate violence. For instance there were churches burned when black metal was considered a satanic thing back in the 90s... So I guess some topics are ok and others just are not

If you don't see the difference between burning buildings and brutally killing millions of people just because they belong to a certain race or ethnicity, then there is not much left to say. But you are right in one thing, "some topics are ok and others just are not" and there is perfect justification for this.


smat point how many ppl actually NSABM members ha skilled?
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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17.09.2017 - 01:37
Metren
Dreadrealm
Written by nikarg on 16.09.2017 at 12:38

Freedom of speech is great, but there are boundaries that should not be crossed.


I hate NSBM and don't even bother to listen to bands that are supposedly good at writing music, but I have to slightly disagree here. Free speech should be well, free. And it is. NSBM bands are free to sing their horrid lyrics, but MS is free to not feature them and concert venues are also free to not feature them. That doesn't have much or anything to do with freedom of speech IMO, it doesn't limit it in any way. NSBM bands are totally free to write shit, but nobody has to give them a platform to shout it to a wider audience. That's what this is about, I think.
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My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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17.09.2017 - 01:44
Metren
Dreadrealm
Written by Karlabos on 15.09.2017 at 15:22

Even if the lyrics are about genocide and against a direct group of people instead of a religion... It's just lyrics. What about the free speech?


Metalstorm and concert venues are not going around forcing NSBM bands to be quiet, they simply refuse to give such bands and their message a bigger platform. That's not a limitation on free speech at all.

EDIT: To explain this: having your opinion and voicing it is a human right. Someone giving you a megaphone to help you spread it is not a right, it is a privilege and a privilege that bands and people spreading disastrous ideas don't deserve to have.
----
My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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17.09.2017 - 06:32
M C Vice
ex-polydactyl
Written by Karlabos on 16.09.2017 at 14:42

Yeah, if the purpose of censorship was to prevent the promotion of violence, the anti-religion themes should also be censored since they also generate violence. For instance there were churches burned when black metal was considered a satanic thing back in the 90s... So I guess some topics are ok and others just are not

The difference is probably that they were only firebombing buildings (I think 1 firefighter died) and not the people who use them.
----
"Another day, another Doug."
"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
" 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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17.09.2017 - 14:40
IronAngel

Freedom of speech DOES NOT MEAN what some of you apparently think it means. It means people are free to express their opinions without pre-emptive government censorship. So there are at least three things it doesn't mean:

1) It doesn't mean the government, or any other party, must provide you with a platform that isn't part of your civil rights by default (like, say, talking on the street)
2) It doesn't mean private actors, like MetalStorm, aren't free to apply censorship to their heart's content. It just means the state won't.
3) It doesn't mean your freely exercised speech won't be punished after the fact. It means you will be held responsible AFTER you commit the speech-act and judged according to the law and, in the private/social spheres, according to public opinion.

So cry free speech all you want. But if a band has managed to publish a hateful NSBM song, at their own expense, on their own server, and no state actor intervened before the publication, the right to free speech was respected. Nobody is required, legally or morally, to support or respect what is said, or turn a blind eye in case it is criminal (as promoting nazism in many countries is). This is pretty much what Metran said, too.

---

As for unequal treatment of different prejudices/anti-somethings: I am not personally of the opinion that anti-Judaist or anti-Islamic lyrics are necessarily more wrong than anti-Christian ones. But I think you need to understand the logic underlying this seeming double-standard: discrimination is not a balanced two-way street. There are always power dynamics at work, and those matter a lot. Speaking morally (and not juridically), anti-Christian rebellion is justified when it is against a hegemonic system that actually wields power in society. When the scales turn and Christians become a persecuted minority in, say, a Hindu or militant atheist society, it's no longer rebellion but (can be) oppression. (This doesn't apply to all personal intellectual/moral criticism, of course, but especially to systematic social action.)

In this logic (and though I don't fully subscribe to it, it is a pretty strong argument), it can very well be unacceptable to be anti-Judaist in Poland where they are a historically suppressed, abused minority and you're "criticising" from a position of power, and yet perfectly OK to be anti-Judaist in Israel where the religion is hegemonic and infringes on your life. The same goes for white-black racism in the West, to some extent. It may not be a point of view everybody agrees with (I only agree partly), but it's not a double standard as some alt-right critics seem to think. It is a logic of equality like any other, only it accounts for the power imbalance in evaluating the relevant conditions of equality.
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18.09.2017 - 21:21
Totenlieder

I must admit, extremely well said.

Written by IronAngel on 17.09.2017 at 14:40

Freedom of speech DOES NOT MEAN what some of you apparently think it means. It means people are free to express their opinions without pre-emptive government censorship. So there are at least three things it doesn't mean:

1) It doesn't mean the government, or any other party, must provide you with a platform that isn't part of your civil rights by default (like, say, talking on the street)
2) It doesn't mean private actors, like MetalStorm, aren't free to apply censorship to their heart's content. It just means the state won't.
3) It doesn't mean your freely exercised speech won't be punished after the fact. It means you will be held responsible AFTER you commit the speech-act and judged according to the law and, in the private/social spheres, according to public opinion.

So cry free speech all you want. But if a band has managed to publish a hateful NSBM song, at their own expense, on their own server, and no state actor intervened before the publication, the right to free speech was respected. Nobody is required, legally or morally, to support or respect what is said, or turn a blind eye in case it is criminal (as promoting nazism in many countries is). This is pretty much what Metran said, too.

---

As for unequal treatment of different prejudices/anti-somethings: I am not personally of the opinion that anti-Judaist or anti-Islamic lyrics are necessarily more wrong than anti-Christian ones. But I think you need to understand the logic underlying this seeming double-standard: discrimination is not a balanced two-way street. There are always power dynamics at work, and those matter a lot. Speaking morally (and not juridically), anti-Christian rebellion is justified when it is against a hegemonic system that actually wields power in society. When the scales turn and Christians become a persecuted minority in, say, a Hindu or militant atheist society, it's no longer rebellion but (can be) oppression. (This doesn't apply to all personal intellectual/moral criticism, of course, but especially to systematic social action.)

In this logic (and though I don't fully subscribe to it, it is a pretty strong argument), it can very well be unacceptable to be anti-Judaist in Poland where they are a historically suppressed, abused minority and you're "criticising" from a position of power, and yet perfectly OK to be anti-Judaist in Israel where the religion is hegemonic and infringes on your life. The same goes for white-black racism in the West, to some extent. It may not be a point of view everybody agrees with (I only agree partly), but it's not a double standard as some alt-right critics seem to think. It is a logic of equality like any other, only it accounts for the power imbalance in evaluating the relevant conditions of equality.
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Blut & Krieg
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16.10.2017 - 00:24
Doc G.
Full Grown Hoser
Written by Vombatus on 16.09.2017 at 00:31

But regarding the use of "violence and such". If some braindead left-winged guy (like antifa for example)

JFC.
You keep slipping in "left-wing" and "leftist" kind of hamstrings your argument. Attributing repression to one particular leaning is downright moronic. I consider myself pretty left-leaning, and I'll admit leftists can take things a bit far. You know who else does? Fucking conservatives. If you want to be taken seriously in this debate you should stop trying to subtley crowbar your misguided partisan beliefs in there.

Secondly, Antifa = anti fascist. Thats what it was to begin with. Some people protest peacefully and adhere to the basic belief that fascism is wrong, and dont take it much further. The point is Antifa isn't a strict organization with specific rules and guidelines. Its a social movement that lacks any real definitions. (BTW - many documented violent antifa attacks have already been thoroughly debunked, but people already exaggerated them to the point we're at now.)

The Nazis on the other hand were a political party with very clear definitions on where they stood and what they were about.

Comparing Nazis and Antifa is absurd in scale alone. Until Antifa starts killing millions of people in death camps, your logic is...well, as you would put it "brain dead".
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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16.10.2017 - 03:33
Vombatus
Potorro
Written by Doc G. on 16.10.2017 at 00:24

JFC.


Ok, so my "left-wing" comment stirred you up. For further explanation:

I do not compare Antifa with Nazism as an ideology, as you seem to understand, so I'll just ignore all that bit. Also, thank you for informing us that Nazis killed millions and all that yadayada, I would have never guessed.
If you check the topic of the thread, it is easy to understand that my post was limited to the boundries of metal music and censorship, so the dichotomy between left/right was based around the censorship related to bands that take political stance and subsequent actions that might occure (such as "use of violence").
In a way, I try to draw the attention towards the fact that independently of the ideological stance, many "political" music circles operate in a same way independently of being far right, far left or a bunch of hippies, yet there is a predisposition to apply sanctions according to interested beliefs, which is quite hypocritical and flawed but understandable considering the constant need to create confrontation and quantitative comparisons when touching sensible issues.
My examples included more than just mentioning "left-wing" (even if you conveniently quote just that bit), as an illustration between the different topics that might appear when applying censorship on music, and thus could imply more than just a particular subject (considering the previous posts), and the conversation could easily be broadened instead of beating a dead horse.

Hope it is clearer now.
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16.10.2017 - 14:56
Doc G.
Full Grown Hoser
I suppose. But you also reserve jamming in ad hominem adjectives for refering to left-wing people ("braindead"), which does give the impression your arguments are intended to be pointed, rather than arbitrary example. Considering "antifa are as bad as nazis" is an astoundingly common belief on the internet, you might see how your points come across as simply hyper-partisan bullshit, as a large portion of this thread has revolved around NSBM.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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17.10.2017 - 01:32
Vombatus
Potorro
Yes, I understand. Maybe I should have explained better. But when I used the term "braindead" it was precisely to target a specific group, differenciating within a political spectrum to avoid generalisation, so not refering to left-wing people in general (hence the example in brackets, which is quite reductive and relevant to censorship in metal).
I'm not into idiotic "common internet beliefs" nor sterile "who is more evil" quantitative debates, so I wouldn't take that as a reference to guess what I meant.
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