Arch Enemy - Issue Statements Regarding Photographer Copyright Dispute
A few days ago, Metal Blast published an article explaining how their photographer, J Salmeron, has been blacklisted from photographing Arch Enemy after a copyright dispute over the supposed commercial use of one of his photos without permission, of the band's singer, Alissa White-Gluz, by a clothing company, Thunderball Clothing, which made a piece of clothing that Alissa was wearing in said photo. The photographer claimed that the fee usually associated with the use of his photo would be ?500, but would be willing to let them continue using it if they donated ?100 to a certain cancer charity. The band and the company removed the photo and blacklisted the photographer. Now both the company and Alissa have released statements regarding the dispute.
The Thunderball Clothing statement reads as follows:
"I would like to publicly apologise Mr J. Salmeron for reposting one of the photos he took, on my Instagram page, without having his permission. When few months ago I was reposting his photo from the Instagram page of the Arch Enemy singer Alissa White-Gluz, I was simply proud that such a great artist is wearing a clothing piece that I made, and wanted to share these news with my followers. As I did the repost with an app that included all original credits and watermarks, I thought that it's OK. I meant no harm, and it wasn't my intention to promote any product, however, I do agree that it might looked like that, and I understand that the author of the photography could feel upset about it. And I am sorry about it."
"After I received an email message from J. Salmeron, who introduced himself as a lawyer and author of the photography, I interpreted it as another spam or scam (well, all of us receive this kind of emails all the time). I saw the amount of 500 Euro and the name of Alissa White-Gluz, from whom I reposted mentioned photo, so without going deeper into that message, I did what I thought was most logic - I contacted her, forwarded the original message that I got, and asked her what to do. I was instructed to take down the photo (what I immediately did), and was informed that someone else will take care of it. That again seemed logic, as I was aware that I'm not at the position of taking any actions on behalf of Arch Enemy, nor their members. I had no other contact with J. Salmeron, I haven't heard from him since then, and to be honest, for the last 6 months I had no idea that something is wrong, especially as the photo was taken down.
"That being said, I would like to apologise to J. Salmeron once again. Not only I'm willing to discuss with him how to compensate him and fix the situation, but also how to make sure similar situation won't happen ever again. After all, we're all playing in the same team, and we all have one thing in common. We love music.
"Marta Gabriel, Thunderball Clothing"
Edit: Thunderball Clothing also published an update to their statement, which reads as follows:
"As many of you seems to follow this story, here's an update, and a final statement (you can see my previous statement and an apology from December 28 below [in this case above])."
"The photographer, J. Salmeron, accepted my apology for reposting the photo he took, without having his permission, and as this was his request, I made a donation to the charity organization of his choice (the Dutch Cancer Society). I believe we can say this ends the dispute between us."
"However, as I'm not able to handle the amount of hate and threats that I received and keep on receiving, I decided to do what I think is best in this situation. To end the being known as Thunderball Clothing (it's hard to use a word "company" here, as since day one it was just one person - me). I apologise for not being strong enough, and for not being next Internet hero that keep on saying "haters gonna hate". Within last 2 days I received literally hundreds of comments and messages that I'm a whore, a nazi, a communist, a worthless cunt, and that I either should quickly die, or that I should kill myself. There is no anger in me, and I apologise everyone that felt hurt or upset by this situation. Anyway, there is no Thunderball Clothing anymore. You won."
Alissa White-Gluz also published the following statement:
"In early June, I reposted a photo of myself on instagram from a concert photographer, which is common practice. The photo was already posted to Instagram by the photographer himself. I like doing this because it is a way to say thank you and tip my hat to photographers and usually there is a nice symbiotic relationship between bands and photographers this way. If you follow my socials you know this is something we all enjoy. His watermark was visible, the photo was unaltered and he was tagged and credited in the caption, the way we always do it. The girl who made the outfit I am wearing in the photo, Marta, reposted my post shortly after that. She didn't print it, didn't use it commercially, didn't upload or copy it - she reposted it with a free Instagram application called "get_repost", like many of you do. She was just happy to repost the news that I wear her creations (one of a kind clothing items we designed together, not a product that you can buy), and share it with her followers. 99% of the time, this is how this online world functions like a supportive community and everyone wins this way. Often, photographers send us folders of photos in hopes that we like them and we post those, always with their name and credit. We really felt we were doing just THAT."
"The photographer of this particular photo was ALWAYS fully credited for the ENTIRE duration of his photo being on my Instagram and Marta's. As soon as he expressed discontent the posts were immediately removed. There was never ANY attempt made by Thunderball or Arch Enemy to use that photo for commercial use, and certainly not without compensation. To our understanding, since there was nothing being sold or advertised in the posts, it was not commercial, but we still took his concerns seriously and immediately took the photo down. To be clear, this is not a photographer Arch Enemy hired, this is one of the hundreds of photographers who are in the photo pit at festivals. Once the photographer stated he wanted a fee for online use, we immediately (within minutes) agreed to remove the posts (which were online for a few days at most) so as to avoid any complications. If we were going to use a photo for any commercial application, we would pay them and there would be a contract ahead of time, like we always do and have done with hundreds of photographers."
"Marta forwarded us an email from a lawyer saying she owed 500 euros, was in breach of copyright and the email included payment method information. Marta goes by the name Thunderball Clothing online and is a fellow musician, artist and one-woman clothing maker from Poland. We tried to explain that this photo isn't selling anything, it is showing off the custom outfit I am wearing, but the emails felt more and more coercive, so we simply removed the posts. There was no product for sale in the photo and no attempt to keep using the photo once the photographer stated his discontent. I understand that there are laws in place that dictate when and how a photo can be used, although promotional online use is usually appreciated, especially when it provides exposure for all parties involved. But, the photographer was unhappy with the reposts so we removed them, plain and simple."
"We didn't want any trouble so we deleted the posts and thought that was the end of it since we had no contact since June. Normally, in my experience, people are happy to see the subject of their photo sharing their work and its a beautiful thing to be able to have one concert experience be a platform for musicians, lighting directors, clothing designers, photographers, sound engineers and fans alike all sharing in the art that is created."
"All that happened here was I simply posted a photo of myself with full credit, watermark and tagging, then took it down when a lawyer contacted my friend who was among several pages that reposted it. Lots of fan pages are run by teenagers in countries where there may be different laws or a language barrier, who might not understand, and I didn't want them to end up with some lawyer's letter in their inboxes, and I know they like to repost things I post, so I just took it down. I'm not really sure why this non-issue has been twisted to scapegoat us 6 months after the fact, especially considering we simply did what he asked and the last interactions I had with him, personally, were pleasant."
"We reserve the right, however, to decide who is allowed to photograph our shows and after having corresponded with him we didn't want any more issues like this in the future, especially when passes are limited and we know so many photographers who love having the opportunity to get a photo pass and have fun with us at shows."
"In conclusion, no one from Arch Enemy nor Thunderball ever denied paying the photographer in question for the commercial use of his photo: We simply did not use it."
Finally, the band's former singer and current manager, Angela Gossow, posted the following on Facebook:
"We did not infringe any copyright. A picture got re-posted and tagged (not on my or Arch Enemy's page). Then I got forwarded an email by Juan introducing himself as a lawyer and photographer and claiming money for said image -We had it removed immediately."
"Copyright issues, photographers on site we have no rights or choice to decide over what they do with the imagery does make artists feel vulnerable. The result: artists are trying to gain control over the situation again by having photographers sign a bunch of paperwork. We haven't done anything like that so far."
"There was some miscommunication and misunderstanding along the way, I am sorry if I offended anybody. I got angry. If he would have just introduced himself as a photographer I would have reacted differently as opposed to be receiving a lawyers correspondence, which feels threatening to me. To clarify: there was no extortion or threat in a legal sense."
"All the best to you, have a great new year. Angela"
Edit: Angela Gossow has published another statement:
"Dear whoever is interested in the subject,"
"I am reacting to the bully rally this photographer has set lose with his well crafted (he took 6 months to get it done and released), well timed mash up of different subjects at hand."
"The details often get lost in the emotion of the narrative - and the narrative is often controlled by who presents the story first. Mr photographer threw a bunch of different things into one pot and highly emotionalized it. Lets differentiate:"
"1) Copyright issue."
"Arch Enemy did not post any of his pictures, no breach of copyright there. Alissa only re-tagged his image and got written permission of said photographer and actually got asked to re-post, after she fearfully removed the said photo. She refrained from doing so. Conclusion: Zero involvement oft he band or Alissa in any of the addressed matters. Leave Arch Enemy and Alissa out of it."
"2) Thunderball clothing / Marta:"
"The lady re-posted the picture and said 'thank you for wearing my custom made outfit' along with it. Copyright breach, as this can be interpreted as commercial use. Not intentionally, because she wasn't aware of that fine line - a lot of people on the internet are not actually. Anything you re-post is a breach of copyright actually. She removed as well immediately. She did not react to the donation request because she was not sure if its scam. Donating to a cancer research fund is not going to buy her the rights to use the photo commercially. Only a paid invoice to said photographer would do. So why didn't he just invoice the 500 EUR and went ahead and donated it to said charity? That would have been much more transparent in every aspect."
"The internet hate campaign has destroyed Marta's business - all existing customers have cancelled their orders and/or returned their orders. She has received numerous death threads, accusations of being a Nazi and worse. She has closed her shop she built up for 8 years over this. Is mistake really that severe to justify this? NO. Is it justified to destroy an artist over this? NO."
"3) Angela Gossow, management:"
"This is an unfortunate situation and a private business conversation that was never meant for public consumption (unethical and contrary to the code of conduct for European lawyers) was being abused for this campaign. I was doing my position in my efforts to aggressively represent and protect my client and her business partner. I'm sorry that this has been made public and the issues are now misconstrued. I am personally shocked by the fact a business dispute turned into such a destructive wave of hate."
"The claim I had him blacklisted with all agents, festivals etc is false! I did inform my circle of people I do not want him in the Arch Enemy photo pit again. I did not ask any promoters, festivals, magazines or whoever to ban him. Mr. photographer, give me one person who has removed you from their payroll because of me. Nobody? Thank you."
"Why I changed some words in my previous posts - I received a legal letter from said Mr. photographer asking me to, otherwise he would pursue me legally for my wordings. The same happened to Alissa and Jeremy Saffer, who took his entire post down. So those going out on the fence defending us are being silenced. Freedom of speech? No, I don't think so. I am sure I will have to edit some of this post as well because I expect to receive a legal letter from him again within the next 24 hours. Just saying."
"Oh, and I took away the word sheep because those people who damaged Marta beyond repair, who are threatening Alissa and me in very serious ways are not sheep - they are much worse. They are bullies."
"We wish to move on from this and wish Mr Photographer the best with the career."
"You are welcome to discuss on my Facebook page - no comments disabled. I will not tolerate any threats concerning my person, my family and my friends. These will be pursued.
"Thank you for your time to read this."
Has this settled anything? Give us your thoughts.
The Thunderball Clothing statement reads as follows:
"I would like to publicly apologise Mr J. Salmeron for reposting one of the photos he took, on my Instagram page, without having his permission. When few months ago I was reposting his photo from the Instagram page of the Arch Enemy singer Alissa White-Gluz, I was simply proud that such a great artist is wearing a clothing piece that I made, and wanted to share these news with my followers. As I did the repost with an app that included all original credits and watermarks, I thought that it's OK. I meant no harm, and it wasn't my intention to promote any product, however, I do agree that it might looked like that, and I understand that the author of the photography could feel upset about it. And I am sorry about it."
"After I received an email message from J. Salmeron, who introduced himself as a lawyer and author of the photography, I interpreted it as another spam or scam (well, all of us receive this kind of emails all the time). I saw the amount of 500 Euro and the name of Alissa White-Gluz, from whom I reposted mentioned photo, so without going deeper into that message, I did what I thought was most logic - I contacted her, forwarded the original message that I got, and asked her what to do. I was instructed to take down the photo (what I immediately did), and was informed that someone else will take care of it. That again seemed logic, as I was aware that I'm not at the position of taking any actions on behalf of Arch Enemy, nor their members. I had no other contact with J. Salmeron, I haven't heard from him since then, and to be honest, for the last 6 months I had no idea that something is wrong, especially as the photo was taken down.
"That being said, I would like to apologise to J. Salmeron once again. Not only I'm willing to discuss with him how to compensate him and fix the situation, but also how to make sure similar situation won't happen ever again. After all, we're all playing in the same team, and we all have one thing in common. We love music.
"Marta Gabriel, Thunderball Clothing"
Edit: Thunderball Clothing also published an update to their statement, which reads as follows:
"As many of you seems to follow this story, here's an update, and a final statement (you can see my previous statement and an apology from December 28 below [in this case above])."
"The photographer, J. Salmeron, accepted my apology for reposting the photo he took, without having his permission, and as this was his request, I made a donation to the charity organization of his choice (the Dutch Cancer Society). I believe we can say this ends the dispute between us."
"However, as I'm not able to handle the amount of hate and threats that I received and keep on receiving, I decided to do what I think is best in this situation. To end the being known as Thunderball Clothing (it's hard to use a word "company" here, as since day one it was just one person - me). I apologise for not being strong enough, and for not being next Internet hero that keep on saying "haters gonna hate". Within last 2 days I received literally hundreds of comments and messages that I'm a whore, a nazi, a communist, a worthless cunt, and that I either should quickly die, or that I should kill myself. There is no anger in me, and I apologise everyone that felt hurt or upset by this situation. Anyway, there is no Thunderball Clothing anymore. You won."
Alissa White-Gluz also published the following statement:
"In early June, I reposted a photo of myself on instagram from a concert photographer, which is common practice. The photo was already posted to Instagram by the photographer himself. I like doing this because it is a way to say thank you and tip my hat to photographers and usually there is a nice symbiotic relationship between bands and photographers this way. If you follow my socials you know this is something we all enjoy. His watermark was visible, the photo was unaltered and he was tagged and credited in the caption, the way we always do it. The girl who made the outfit I am wearing in the photo, Marta, reposted my post shortly after that. She didn't print it, didn't use it commercially, didn't upload or copy it - she reposted it with a free Instagram application called "get_repost", like many of you do. She was just happy to repost the news that I wear her creations (one of a kind clothing items we designed together, not a product that you can buy), and share it with her followers. 99% of the time, this is how this online world functions like a supportive community and everyone wins this way. Often, photographers send us folders of photos in hopes that we like them and we post those, always with their name and credit. We really felt we were doing just THAT."
"The photographer of this particular photo was ALWAYS fully credited for the ENTIRE duration of his photo being on my Instagram and Marta's. As soon as he expressed discontent the posts were immediately removed. There was never ANY attempt made by Thunderball or Arch Enemy to use that photo for commercial use, and certainly not without compensation. To our understanding, since there was nothing being sold or advertised in the posts, it was not commercial, but we still took his concerns seriously and immediately took the photo down. To be clear, this is not a photographer Arch Enemy hired, this is one of the hundreds of photographers who are in the photo pit at festivals. Once the photographer stated he wanted a fee for online use, we immediately (within minutes) agreed to remove the posts (which were online for a few days at most) so as to avoid any complications. If we were going to use a photo for any commercial application, we would pay them and there would be a contract ahead of time, like we always do and have done with hundreds of photographers."
"Marta forwarded us an email from a lawyer saying she owed 500 euros, was in breach of copyright and the email included payment method information. Marta goes by the name Thunderball Clothing online and is a fellow musician, artist and one-woman clothing maker from Poland. We tried to explain that this photo isn't selling anything, it is showing off the custom outfit I am wearing, but the emails felt more and more coercive, so we simply removed the posts. There was no product for sale in the photo and no attempt to keep using the photo once the photographer stated his discontent. I understand that there are laws in place that dictate when and how a photo can be used, although promotional online use is usually appreciated, especially when it provides exposure for all parties involved. But, the photographer was unhappy with the reposts so we removed them, plain and simple."
"We didn't want any trouble so we deleted the posts and thought that was the end of it since we had no contact since June. Normally, in my experience, people are happy to see the subject of their photo sharing their work and its a beautiful thing to be able to have one concert experience be a platform for musicians, lighting directors, clothing designers, photographers, sound engineers and fans alike all sharing in the art that is created."
"All that happened here was I simply posted a photo of myself with full credit, watermark and tagging, then took it down when a lawyer contacted my friend who was among several pages that reposted it. Lots of fan pages are run by teenagers in countries where there may be different laws or a language barrier, who might not understand, and I didn't want them to end up with some lawyer's letter in their inboxes, and I know they like to repost things I post, so I just took it down. I'm not really sure why this non-issue has been twisted to scapegoat us 6 months after the fact, especially considering we simply did what he asked and the last interactions I had with him, personally, were pleasant."
"We reserve the right, however, to decide who is allowed to photograph our shows and after having corresponded with him we didn't want any more issues like this in the future, especially when passes are limited and we know so many photographers who love having the opportunity to get a photo pass and have fun with us at shows."
"In conclusion, no one from Arch Enemy nor Thunderball ever denied paying the photographer in question for the commercial use of his photo: We simply did not use it."
Finally, the band's former singer and current manager, Angela Gossow, posted the following on Facebook:
"We did not infringe any copyright. A picture got re-posted and tagged (not on my or Arch Enemy's page). Then I got forwarded an email by Juan introducing himself as a lawyer and photographer and claiming money for said image -We had it removed immediately."
"Copyright issues, photographers on site we have no rights or choice to decide over what they do with the imagery does make artists feel vulnerable. The result: artists are trying to gain control over the situation again by having photographers sign a bunch of paperwork. We haven't done anything like that so far."
"There was some miscommunication and misunderstanding along the way, I am sorry if I offended anybody. I got angry. If he would have just introduced himself as a photographer I would have reacted differently as opposed to be receiving a lawyers correspondence, which feels threatening to me. To clarify: there was no extortion or threat in a legal sense."
"All the best to you, have a great new year. Angela"
Edit: Angela Gossow has published another statement:
"Dear whoever is interested in the subject,"
"I am reacting to the bully rally this photographer has set lose with his well crafted (he took 6 months to get it done and released), well timed mash up of different subjects at hand."
"The details often get lost in the emotion of the narrative - and the narrative is often controlled by who presents the story first. Mr photographer threw a bunch of different things into one pot and highly emotionalized it. Lets differentiate:"
"1) Copyright issue."
"Arch Enemy did not post any of his pictures, no breach of copyright there. Alissa only re-tagged his image and got written permission of said photographer and actually got asked to re-post, after she fearfully removed the said photo. She refrained from doing so. Conclusion: Zero involvement oft he band or Alissa in any of the addressed matters. Leave Arch Enemy and Alissa out of it."
"2) Thunderball clothing / Marta:"
"The lady re-posted the picture and said 'thank you for wearing my custom made outfit' along with it. Copyright breach, as this can be interpreted as commercial use. Not intentionally, because she wasn't aware of that fine line - a lot of people on the internet are not actually. Anything you re-post is a breach of copyright actually. She removed as well immediately. She did not react to the donation request because she was not sure if its scam. Donating to a cancer research fund is not going to buy her the rights to use the photo commercially. Only a paid invoice to said photographer would do. So why didn't he just invoice the 500 EUR and went ahead and donated it to said charity? That would have been much more transparent in every aspect."
"The internet hate campaign has destroyed Marta's business - all existing customers have cancelled their orders and/or returned their orders. She has received numerous death threads, accusations of being a Nazi and worse. She has closed her shop she built up for 8 years over this. Is mistake really that severe to justify this? NO. Is it justified to destroy an artist over this? NO."
"3) Angela Gossow, management:"
"This is an unfortunate situation and a private business conversation that was never meant for public consumption (unethical and contrary to the code of conduct for European lawyers) was being abused for this campaign. I was doing my position in my efforts to aggressively represent and protect my client and her business partner. I'm sorry that this has been made public and the issues are now misconstrued. I am personally shocked by the fact a business dispute turned into such a destructive wave of hate."
"The claim I had him blacklisted with all agents, festivals etc is false! I did inform my circle of people I do not want him in the Arch Enemy photo pit again. I did not ask any promoters, festivals, magazines or whoever to ban him. Mr. photographer, give me one person who has removed you from their payroll because of me. Nobody? Thank you."
"Why I changed some words in my previous posts - I received a legal letter from said Mr. photographer asking me to, otherwise he would pursue me legally for my wordings. The same happened to Alissa and Jeremy Saffer, who took his entire post down. So those going out on the fence defending us are being silenced. Freedom of speech? No, I don't think so. I am sure I will have to edit some of this post as well because I expect to receive a legal letter from him again within the next 24 hours. Just saying."
"Oh, and I took away the word sheep because those people who damaged Marta beyond repair, who are threatening Alissa and me in very serious ways are not sheep - they are much worse. They are bullies."
"We wish to move on from this and wish Mr Photographer the best with the career."
"You are welcome to discuss on my Facebook page - no comments disabled. I will not tolerate any threats concerning my person, my family and my friends. These will be pursued.
"Thank you for your time to read this."
Has this settled anything? Give us your thoughts.
| facebook.com | |
| Band profile: | Arch Enemy |
Comments
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 61010  |
Is there a audio, for This crsp. I go for blacklist, band owns fight to all picka, that photograp had permission to take a photo of The band
---- I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens. Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''  apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| zikon Posts: 252  |
Who want's to photograph that vegan smurf anyways...
---- "The poetry of the earth is never dead" John Keats
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| ScottyM Posts: 211 |
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 61010 |
Written by zikon on 29.12.2018 at 16:31 Haha, strong reason to dislike that band
---- I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens. Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die'' apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| tominator At best deranged Contributor Posts: 1061  |
Why is it so difficult to accept that you are in the wrong? Like I said AE only makes themselves look like a bunch of money grabbing idiots... well... maybe that's just what they are... Like... this is just embarrassing...
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| nikarg Staff Posts: 7046  |
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| qlacs "The Quaker" Posts: 1537  |
TLDR: So we did that, only that, and did just that, and please remove kebab from premises
---- 
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 61010 |
Written by tominator on 29.12.2018 at 18:36thay are big, they can. Leaves eyes font lost fand when Alex boned nrw chick. Manowar did not lost fans arter guitarist was arrested on chil molasting charge. Same wont This band.
---- I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens. Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die'' apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| IBlackened Posts: 477  |
"...although promotional online use is usually appreciated, especially when it provides exposure for all parties involved". Again she's talking about paying with "exposure". Does she have the same view about free online promotion of their music, like full albums on youtube or torrent sites? I highly doubt it. "Normally, in my experience, people are happy to see the subject of their photo sharing their work..." She's playing dumb, again. The guy told Alissa she was allowed to use the photo. The issue was with Thunderball Clothing's owner using that photo to promote her clothing brand. That's why he contacted her and not Arch Enemy or Alissa. And without his consent, I don't think it matters if she just shared it from Alissa. "I'm not really sure why this non-issue has been twisted to scapegoat us 6 months after the fact..." Because Arch Enemy has banned the guy from taking pictures of their concerts? This was quite clear in that post. And who is twisting the story again? She's trying to make the guy look bad, focusing only on the improper use of his photo and conveniently forgetting to address the fact that they banned him. "We reserve the right, however, to decide who is allowed to photograph our shows..." Oh, so you know it. Otherwise, you wouldn't have mentioned this. I wonder why she's only now addressing this, almost as a side note. "...we know so many photographers who love having the opportunity to get a photo pass and have fun with us at shows." i.e., working as professional photographers just for the fun of it and be thankful for even getting exposition. She's acting just like promoters that expect local/small bands to play for free just for exposure and since they love to play, they shouldn't do it expecting financial compensation. This way of thinking is infuriating, and coming from musicians who probably had to deal with similar situations at some point in their careers, shocking. So yeah, this smells like bullshit. She's extremely dumb or, most likely, dishonest.
---- Their old stuff is better.
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| nikarg Staff Posts: 7046 |
What is really disgusting is that Alissa is trying to convince everyone that Thunderball Clothing is not a business. While reading her reply I got the feeling that Marta is only designing clothes for Alissa and she does not sell anything. A simple google search led me here. Marta sells custom made clothes. SELLS. It's a business and she gets paid in money, not in exposure for fuck's sake. That said, Marta got the point and apologized with a respectful statement even though she's not very convincing with her explanations. Alissa on the other hand still doesn't get it and tries to explain the inexplicable, while deleting the fans' angry posts on social media. Say you're fucking sorry, pay a hefty sum money to the charity the photographer proposes (even though he didn't ask you or the band to pay anything nor did he ask any other teenage fan to pay as you are pathetically implying, he asked THE BUSINESS "THUNDERBALL CLOTHING" to pay and he had every right to do so) and shut the fuck up to minimise the damage. Also, get a P.R. person with an IQ over 75 because this is the least you need for basic reading comprehension. It's a skill that obviously both you and Marta (and Angela) are clearly lacking, since it seems you can't understand what the photographer's e-mails said. Too bad for you the e-mails and messages were made public and all of us who actually can read got the full picture.
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| empty Posts: 31 |
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| M C Vice ex-polydactyl Posts: 3353  |
'Marta Gabriel', 'fellow musician', 'Poland'. Is she the singer from Crystal Viper?
---- "Another day, another Doug." "I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples." " 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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| tominator At best deranged Contributor Posts: 1061 |
Written by Bad English on 29.12.2018 at 21:19 Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. As for Manowar, I think that despicable situation is an entirely different conversation. Fact still is they are extremely disrespectful when it comes down to appreciating someone's art. I wonder if they would like it if the organisation of a festival would tell them: "Nah... we won't pay you for your performance at our festival. Have you seen the crowd? Now that's a lot of exposure you got there. All for free! That should suffice as compensation, in fact you should be thankful..."
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| Vombatus Potorro Posts: 2355  |
Written by M C Vice on 30.12.2018 at 01:39 Yes.
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| nikarg Staff Posts: 7046 |
Written by M C Vice on 30.12.2018 at 01:39 Yes she is. Her statement / apology is on the band's Facebook page and is receiving extremely positive comments. On the other hand, #ArtEnemy, Alissa and Angela are deleting thousands of hateful comments but more and more keep coming up.
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| nikarg Staff Posts: 7046 |
I've added Angela's statement in the end of the news post. It seems to me Bad English makes more sense than her. Please someone translate: "Copyright issues, photographers on site we have no rights or choice to decide over what they do with the imagery does make artists feel vulnerable."
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| Starvynth i c deaf people Staff Posts: 2998  |
Written by nikarg on 30.12.2018 at 03:19 I bet she rashly fed an online translator with a typical (=interleaved and too long) german sentence and didn't notice the messed up punctuation and absurdity of the result. Anyway - Angela Gossow was born in my home town and her English is still strongly influenced by local speech and expressions, so I will give it a try. Unfortunately, two interpretations with unequal meaning are conceivable: Copyright issues, on-site photographers... We have no rights or choice to decide what they do with the imagery. [That] does make artists feel vulnerable. or maybe less likely Copyright issues [and] photographers on site [who] have no rights or choice to decide what they do with the imagery do make artists feel vulnerable.
---- signatures = SPAM
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 61010 |
Tominator, i said they can, i did not said they should. Many Will go ser The band.
---- I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens. Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die'' apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| tominator At best deranged Contributor Posts: 1061 |
I know you didn't say that they should. What I meant with my comment was to express that the band should have thought about what they were doing. And how hypocritical they are being here. I would imagine that when AE just started out they got across a bunch of people that took advantage of them. But now they are basically the ones that think they can do whatever they want. And I'm well aware that this situation will have barely any impact on the amount of people that go to their concerts. Do I really care? Not really since I've barely listened to any of their stuff. The thing I care about is that they should stop trying to intervene in something they have no right intervening in. Maybe they will learn from this situation to stop doing this kind of sh*t, now that it got so much public attention. One can only hope I guess... though I'm afraid in this case (and judging by the amount of people they are deleting comments from on their Facebook page) that it's wishful thinking.
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| joshsteph Posts: 133  |
Really disappointed in Arch Enemy and Angela. It's not even the first time they did this to a photographer. They banned others too for similar reasons. They got themselves arrogantly in this while the whole story had almost nothing to do with them. Unbelievably unprofessional and disgusting behavior from Angela and Alissa.
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| Reaper_Redeemer Posts: 743  |
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| Chidder Posts: 165  |
The drama continues. Here's another statement from Thunderball Clothing: "As many of you seems to follow this story, here's an update, and a final statement (you can see my previous statement and an apology from December 28 below). The photographer, J. Salmeron, accepted my apology for reposting the photo he took, without having his permission, and as this was his request, I made a donation to the charity organization of his choice (the Dutch Cancer Society). I believe we can say this ends the dispute between us. However, as I'm not able to handle the amount of hate and threats that I received and keep on receiving, I decided to do what I think is best in this situation. To end the being known as Thunderball Clothing (it's hard to use a word "company" here, as since day one it was just one person - me). I apologise for not being strong enough, and for not being next Internet hero that keep on saying "haters gonna hate". Within last 2 days I received literally hundreds of comments and messages that I'm a whore, a nazi, a communist, a worthless cunt, and that I either should quickly die, or that I should kill myself. There is no anger in me, and I apologise everyone that felt hurt or upset by this situation. Anyway, there is no Thunderball Clothing anymore. You won." 
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| BitterCOld The Ancient One Admin Posts: 15250  |
She and AE should have given free shirts to everyone complaining. paid in exposure... the good kind!
---- get the fuck off my lawn. Beer Bug Virus Spotify Playlist crafted by Nikarg and I. Feel free to tune in and add some pertinent metal tunes!
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| M C Vice ex-polydactyl Posts: 3353 |
Written by BitterCOld on 31.12.2018 at 01:15 Yup, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
---- "Another day, another Doug." "I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples." " 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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| ScottyM Posts: 211 |
Written by Chidder on 31.12.2018 at 00:51 Damn, seeing Marta shutter Thunderball Clothing was never what I hoped to see. Judging by Salmeron's response to Marta closing shop, he's not happy either. Credit where credit is due, her outfits do look spectacular. I understand that Marta has a very close personal tie to Alissa since she provides a lot of clothing to her, but offloading her correspondence onto Arch Enemy to handle her legal troubles was a terrible idea. I also understand that a one-person shop likely can't afford the retainer to seek legal counsel, but why on earth would she confide in Alissa and Angela to handle this situation? Did she expect Angela to hire a lawyer on her behalf that would go to bat for her!? I hope she wasn't naive and didn't understand how both Alissa and Angela have a history of jumping to conclusions before taking the time to think. She has to be regretting that decision dearly right now, and I feel bad for her. At the same time, I'm actually starting to feel a little disappointment in how Salmeron handled this as well. He's claimed to be a lawyer, and while I understand it's intimidating and a bit of a power-move to send a cease and desist, they exist for a reason. It gets the conversation going, and from there he could negotiate terms and set his demands in a more professional manner, perhaps even causing Alissa and Angela to hit the pause button on their penchant for drama and overreactions. Knowing of Alissa and Angela's historical tendencies to jump to conclusions and take the dramatic approach to these situations, Salmeron won't take another photo of the band (and maybe even others) in any professional manner again. Apparently this is personal for them, and after all this, he's out. This whole shit-sandwich could have been avoided in many different ways that would have saved careers and face. Mostly, I'm just so disappointed (yet not surprised) by Alissa and Angela. Yeah, I get that scammers exist, but when you manage or are the face of one of the most well known metal acts in the world, the last thing you do is respond with knee jerk reactions without taking the time to think "Could this backfire?" Arch Enemy needs to fire Angela. She's done more harm for them, Marta, and Thunderball Clothing than she should have had she shown competency as a manager and addressed this more professionally. Also, if anyone here that read these stories messaged Marta with death threats, or calling her a whore, nazi, commie, or a worthless cunt, shame on you. That isn't metal. That's you being an edgy asshole, and you should feel ashamed for your behavior. Mature for just a second and imagine waking up one day realizing your career is over because of one bad decision. Income is gone, your business is over. If that doesn't ground you and instill a little fear, you need to take a good hard look at your attitude and perhaps educate yourself on what empathy is. It's one thing to message AE on twitter and rib them about exposure and call them out for hypocrisy, it's another to flat out attack someone with such slanderous bullshit.
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| Zap Guest Posts: 3517  |
Talk about things getting out of hand... She was the only one with enough common sense to admit her error, but she should NOT have ended her company (yes, it's a company even if it is just one person, don't know why everyone is so hesitant to label it as such.)
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| Mad Mike Posts: 163  |
This, Pat O'Brien's meth binge, Otep's lead singer being a bitch again. The 2018 MS Drama award is gonna be the juiciest yet.
---- Did you ever notice that the people who tell you to get a life are normally people who should be dead in the first place?
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| nikarg Staff Posts: 7046 |
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| Zap Guest Posts: 3517 |
Written by nikarg on 31.12.2018 at 11:18 It entertains me greatly how she keeps making that hole she dug deeper and deeper. Especially because she could have had nothing to do with all this if she had played her cards right from the start.
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| Zap Guest Posts: 3517 |
Written by Mad Mike on 31.12.2018 at 11:01 Don't forget the last-minute send-ins by Batushka and Ævangelist!
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