Baz Anderson StaffPosts: 13254 |
yes i am a crazy Helloween fanatic, and back in 1985 there wasnt anything quite like this at all - but i wasnt alive then and i wasnt in that situation when i thought 'wow - this is something really different'
so when i listen to it now, i hear how this is something revolutionary and different but i dont actually feel it like i would if i was alive in 1985
maybe for the originality back then this should be given a 10, but musically compared to music nowadays shouldnt be given such a high rating
everyone also seems to go on how much they love Kai's singing on this album, but i dont think it is very good at all!!
he just hasnt developed his voice yet - the first time we hear him doing lead vocals and sounding good is on 'Land Of The Free'
oh well. this is a good album, but i feel it is overrated so much compared to todays standards
maybe it does deserve such a high rating for what it did to the world of heavy metal though
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
08.09.2006 - 23:36Rating: 9
Written by Baz Anderson on 24.08.2006 at 17:01
maybe for the originality back then this should be given a 10, but musically compared to music nowadays shouldnt be given such a high rating
[...]
oh well. this is a good album, but i feel it is overrated so much compared to todays standards
maybe it does deserve such a high rating for what it did to the world of heavy metal though
Yes, we must always judge an album, just like if we were back in the time it was released. You can't compare a band's music 20 years ago with bands of nowadays... it wouldn't be fair.
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Bitch! Please
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Jason W. Razorbliss StaffPosts: 3523 |
18.10.2006 - 03:45Rating: 9
I agree with iaberis 100% here, this disc is unique for it's time, though there are influences of other bands found in it. (Maybe it's just me, but I hear a lot of Accept influence...?) I recently got the 2 CD expanded edition of this CD, and still feel it's the best Helloween album (+ EP), not matter what anyone else says!
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"After silence that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
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Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck ElitePosts: 40071 |
Written by Jason W. on 18.10.2006 at 03:45
(Maybe it's just me, but I hear a lot of Accept influence...?) I
It's not just you, to me they are clearly there too and back when it was first released the Accept influences were talked about quite a bit in most of the reviews back then.
The only thing I don't agree about is the overall mark... I find it a tad too high because both the songwriting and performance weren't perfect (yet?). And the production an 8? This album is shoddy sounding to say the least I think I would rate ithe production a 6 at most. even for the production standards of the time this was quite shitty sounding.
Oh and one thing the term Power Metal WAS around at in 1985 Metallica had already used it in 1982 as the title for their demo and also as a definition of the sort of metal they played.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal
Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996
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Jason W. Razorbliss StaffPosts: 3523 |
18.10.2006 - 08:54Rating: 9
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.10.2006 at 08:13
It's not just you, to me they are clearly there too and back when it was first released the Accept influences were talked about quite a bit in most of the reviews back then.
The only thing I don't agree about is the overall mark... I find it a tad too high because both the songwriting and performance weren't perfect (yet?). And the production an 8? This album is shoddy sounding to say the least I think I would rate ithe production a 6 at most. even for the production standards of the time this was quite shitty sounding.
Well glad to know I'm not off on hearing the Accept influences here...! And yes, you are right about the production on this recording, especially when I play a track off of this followed by Iron Maiden, Mercyful Fate, and even Accept's "Restless & Wild," which came out 3 years earlier...Even with this 2006 edition of Walls Of Jericho, the production still isn't great. It really makes me feel like I'm 10 playing Atari when I listen to this because the production is so dated!
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"After silence that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
25.10.2006 - 10:07Rating: 9
True, true, but I didn't want to spoil the album rating with giving it a 6 on the production... it's such a great album...
I don't know if there's Accept influences hre, but they do sound like Accept sometimes... don't know who influenced who... since I've only listenewd to later Accept's releases... I think I forgot to mention that above... but I wanted to!
About what Ozman said, I don't disagree, but there weren't any (or many) bands back then playing Power Metal... I learned the term "Power Metal" from Helloween and Blind Guardian. You could say of course that there were other bands before them playing, but they didn't sound much "Power" to me and they still don't. I strongly believe that Helloween was one of the bands that created this genre.
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Bitch! Please
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Baz Anderson StaffPosts: 13254 |
the 'power metal' that we refer to nowadays is different to what the 'power metal' back then was though
the term was used to describe bands that would just be described as 'thrash' now - bands like Metal Church for example
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
25.10.2006 - 14:46Rating: 9
Exactly, that's what I mean when I say Helloween is one of the bands that created the new "Power Metal" genre
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Bitch! Please
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Talvi
Posts: 825 |
Good, this album needed a review, and probably I agree with the rating. But if the problem is the production, then the remaster has a perfect 10, right?
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My account on other musical pages:
http://www.last.fm/user/Pozito/
http://rateyourmusic.com/~Talvi
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
14.11.2006 - 00:07Rating: 9
Written by Talvi on 13.11.2006 at 23:40
Good, this album needed a review, and probably I agree with the rating. But if the problem is the production, then the remaster has a perfect 10, right?
Damn! The remastered versin came out, after I bought the old version!
Yes, I'd give it a 10.
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Bitch! Please
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Talvi
Posts: 825 |
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My account on other musical pages:
http://www.last.fm/user/Pozito/
http://rateyourmusic.com/~Talvi
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
14.11.2006 - 00:29Rating: 9
I'm not fan of Judas Priest. For me Painkiller is just another JUNK album!!!
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Bitch! Please
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Southern Wind Account deleted |
Southern Wind Account deleted
I freaking love Helloween (except the Kiske era), and this is my favourite albvum by them along with The Drak Ride (evil power metal??? Andi Deris' songs on that album demostrated that it is possible)
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Southern Wind Account deleted |
Southern Wind Account deleted
Written by iaberis on 14.11.2006 at 00:29
I'm not fan of Judas Priest. For me Painkiller is just another JUNK album!!!
I totally agree... that is the most overated Heavy Metal album, without doubt
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Baz Anderson StaffPosts: 13254 |
overrated? 'Painkiller' is a fantastic album!
i dont know how 'rated' it is among the metal community - but only if they are saying it is the best album ever they are overrating it
i love 'Painkiller'.. i dont know what that album has to do with this album though..
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danzig111 Account deleted |
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Spyroid Rosetta Stoned
Posts: 1023 |
13.11.2007 - 09:12Rating: 9
This is the best Helloween album Except from Reptile all songs are totally awesome, this is probably the most even album Helloween has ever released.
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Talvi
Posts: 825 |
Written by Baz Anderson on 15.11.2006 at 20:22
overrated? 'Painkiller' is a fantastic album!
i dont know how 'rated' it is among the metal community - but only if they are saying it is the best album ever they are overrating it
i love 'Painkiller'.. i dont know what that album has to do with this album though..
Probably because both are what is called speed metal albums.
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My account on other musical pages:
http://www.last.fm/user/Pozito/
http://rateyourmusic.com/~Talvi
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Lord_Regnier
Posts: 1469 |
My favorite Helloween album. Pure melodic speed metal.
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"Why would we fear death, when life is so much more frightening?"
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Hrothdane
Posts: 489 |
I still need to get this album...
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Despair is death, and I'm not interested in dying.
Member of the True Crusade against True Crusades
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TheHumanMachine
Posts: 4 |
02.09.2009 - 02:29Rating: 10
People generally know and talk about metallica and megadeth´s force and speed in their first records but i think they are missing a great cd like this one so i recomend it to all of them. Thus it´s amazing to discover the talent of these guys from the very beggining of their musical career. i like this album too much not only for the music also even for the lyrics and the ideas behind them. A must for every true fan of metal.
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Uirapuru Liver Failure
Posts: 2955 |
Love it also Historical and excellent.
I have to listen to this more often.
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member of the true crusade against old school heavy metal, early 80s thrash, NWOBHM, traditional doom, first and second wave black metal, old school death metal, US power metal, 70s prog rock and atmospheric doomsludgestoner. o/
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Mountain King K i K o
Posts: 1361 |
13.01.2011 - 19:16Rating: 7
Helloween is my 3rd favorite band and i own almost everything for them and although i think this is a good album for 1985, how the hell do some people say it's their best album? i mean it's not even close to being the best in the Helloween discography. Keeper 1 and 2 are definitely way better in every single aspect not to mention Time Of The Oath or The Dark Ride. But this is definitely a decent start. The other thing that i want to say is, HOW THE HELL DOES ANYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD PREFER THIS OVER PAINKILLER??!!!! i love Helloween and Judas Priest so much but comparing this to Painkiller? Painkiller owns almost everything out there, and this is no match. Painkiller, Hell Patrol, Nightcrawler, Touch Of Evil, Between The Hammer And The Anvil, One Shot At Glory are revolutionary songs! many bands still TRY to imitate the heavy raw riffs and vocals to this day! On a special note, Gamma Ray literally used Leather Rebel's intro in their song "Hell Is Thy Home". Iron Savior use many Priest influences as well as tons of other bands (german, English, Finnish, American bands) try to sound like Judas Priest. Judas Priest have no weak album and Painkiller is definitely in the top 3...Respect.
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Angelic Storm Melodious
Posts: 6675 |
13.01.2011 - 20:25Rating: 10
Although I love all eras of Helloween, and appreciate all their albums, even "Chameleon", this one is still my fave Helloween album. The mix of primal speed, even aggression at times, mixed with killer melodies was literally genre defining at the time, and the album, and its songs really stand the test of time, and holds up amazingly well today. Compared to their albums now, it has a very raw sound, but that gives it it's charm, and the songwriting was surprisingly stellar for such a young band. Its historical importance is without question, and though it spawned many imitators, none yet have matched the sheer mastery of speed and melody as the plucky Germans acheived on this album. Definitely an undoubted classic album, and fully worthy of a 10/10, which is what I would give it. Timeless stuff! xD
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RavenKing
Posts: 1941 |
Written by Angelic Storm on 13.01.2011 at 20:25
Although I love all eras of Helloween, and appreciate all their albums, even "Chameleon", this one is still my fave Helloween album. The mix of primal speed, even aggression at times, mixed with killer melodies was literally genre defining at the time, and the album, and its songs really stand the test of time, and holds up amazingly well today. Compared to their albums now, it has a very raw sound, but that gives it it's charm, and the songwriting was surprisingly stellar for such a young band. Its historical importance is without question, and though it spawned many imitators, none yet have matched the sheer mastery of speed and melody as the plucky Germans acheived on this album.
This album, along with the EP that preceded it, are my favorite Helloween albums. I totally agree with everything you said about the album.
As for "all eras of Helloween" and "Chameleon", you won't mind if I don't comment on the matter. You know how I hate everything about Helloweeen after the Keepers.
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They shake your hand and they smile and they buy you a drink
They say we'll be your friends we'll stick with you till the end
But everybody's only looking out for themselves
And you say who can you trust I'll tell you nobody
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Angelic Storm Melodious
Posts: 6675 |
24.01.2011 - 03:25Rating: 10
Written by RavenKing on 24.01.2011 at 03:11 This album, along with the EP that preceded it, are my favorite Helloween albums. I totally agree with everything you said about the album.
As for "all eras of Helloween" and "Chameleon", you won't mind if I don't comment on the matter. You know how I hate everything about Helloweeen after the Keepers.
Although I also love the Keeper albums, (and most people for sure rate those albums as the most classic Helloween material) for me the debut (and the EP) was the perfect mix of speed, aggression, and melody. It was equal parts intensity, and tuneful melodies. A feat that is very difficult to pull off. Not only have no imitators failed to match what they did with their very early stuff, even Helloween themselves, have failed to match it. The Keepers are absolute classics for sure, but the very early material of Helloween is really the hidden treasure. xD
I certainly won't mind if you don't comment on it. haha I do know your opinion regarding that, and I respect it, although I dont share that opinion. Not really much point debating it though.
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RavenKing
Posts: 1941 |
Written by Angelic Storm on 24.01.2011 at 03:25
Although I also love the Keeper albums, (and most people for sure rate those albums as the most classic Helloween material) for me the debut (and the EP) was the perfect mix of speed, aggression, and melody. It was equal parts intensity, and tuneful melodies. A feat that is very difficult to pull off. Not only have no imitators failed to match what they did with their very early stuff, even Helloween themselves, have failed to match it. The Keepers are absolute classics for sure, but the very early material of Helloween is really the hidden treasure. xD
I also prefer the pre-Keepers era to the Keepers. And that's how I see this material too.
Considering how I hate Powermetal in general, you would think I would dislike this stuff. But no. Even after so many years and a drastic change of tastes in favor of more extreme stuff, I still like very early Helloween quite a bit.
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They shake your hand and they smile and they buy you a drink
They say we'll be your friends we'll stick with you till the end
But everybody's only looking out for themselves
And you say who can you trust I'll tell you nobody
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
26.01.2011 - 22:29Rating: 9
Written by Mountain King on 13.01.2011 at 19:16
Helloween is my 3rd favorite band and i own almost everything for them and although i think this is a good album for 1985, how the hell do some people say it's their best album? i mean it's not even close to being the best in the Helloween discography. Keeper 1 and 2 are definitely way better in every single aspect not to mention Time Of The Oath or The Dark Ride. But this is definitely a decent start. The other thing that i want to say is, HOW THE HELL DOES ANYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD PREFER THIS OVER PAINKILLER??!!!! i love Helloween and Judas Priest so much but comparing this to Painkiller? Painkiller owns almost everything out there, and this is no match. Painkiller, Hell Patrol, Nightcrawler, Touch Of Evil, Between The Hammer And The Anvil, One Shot At Glory are revolutionary songs! many bands still TRY to imitate the heavy raw riffs and vocals to this day! On a special note, Gamma Ray literally used Leather Rebel's intro in their song "Hell Is Thy Home". Iron Savior use many Priest influences as well as tons of other bands (german, English, Finnish, American bands) try to sound like Judas Priest. Judas Priest have no weak album and Painkiller is definitely in the top 3...Respect.
oh man, you sound like a fanboy!
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Bitch! Please
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Mountain King K i K o
Posts: 1361 |
26.01.2011 - 23:32Rating: 7
Written by iaberis on 26.01.2011 at 22:29
Written by Mountain King on 13.01.2011 at 19:16
Helloween is my 3rd favorite band and i own almost everything for them and although i think this is a good album for 1985, how the hell do some people say it's their best album? i mean it's not even close to being the best in the Helloween discography. Keeper 1 and 2 are definitely way better in every single aspect not to mention Time Of The Oath or The Dark Ride. But this is definitely a decent start. The other thing that i want to say is, HOW THE HELL DOES ANYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD PREFER THIS OVER PAINKILLER??!!!! i love Helloween and Judas Priest so much but comparing this to Painkiller? Painkiller owns almost everything out there, and this is no match. Painkiller, Hell Patrol, Nightcrawler, Touch Of Evil, Between The Hammer And The Anvil, One Shot At Glory are revolutionary songs! many bands still TRY to imitate the heavy raw riffs and vocals to this day! On a special note, Gamma Ray literally used Leather Rebel's intro in their song "Hell Is Thy Home". Iron Savior use many Priest influences as well as tons of other bands (german, English, Finnish, American bands) try to sound like Judas Priest. Judas Priest have no weak album and Painkiller is definitely in the top 3...Respect.
oh man, you sound like a fanboy!
Who the hell are u to tell me what i sound like? I'm a well accomplished guitarist and vocalist and i can tell which album is better. Thank you...
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iaberis Advice Troll
Posts: 1698 |
27.01.2011 - 01:11Rating: 9
Written by Mountain King on 26.01.2011 at 23:32
Who the hell are u to tell me what i sound like? I'm a well accomplished guitarist and vocalist and i can tell which album is better. Thank you...
Who the hell are you to tell me to prefer Painkiller over this? I don't care if you're King of the Mountains, I don't care if I suck at guitar and can't sing, but no one shall tell me what to like!
No disrespect about your skills
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Bitch! Please
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