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The Purpose Of Creating New Black Metal
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Original post

Posted by Bitter Dawn, 13.06.2008 - 04:07
Maybe it's just my struggle with creating music that I actually like, but I also haven't really been able to get into very many newer black metal bands. That coupled with old BM bands gaining mainstream popularity and selling out, I start to wonder what is the purpose of new or modern black metal?

The second wave of black metal musicians have pretty much set the bar for quality black metal, and the style of those bands varies so much that it's hard to create something that stands out. Even bands from the second wave have evolved and changed their sound significantly, Dimmu is really commercial with alot of clean vocals, Satyricon is very rock oriented with catchy riffs, Mayhem is constantly switching their sound up, Darkthrone sounds like a mix of punk and old 80's heavy metal, and even Carpathian Forest really changed their sound with Fuck You All!!!.

The problem with most new bands is they lack innovation, most of them sound like knock offs of the older bands as it's well known there are a ton of old Darkthrone and Mayhem copy cats. It just seems like their is a lack of creativity, originality, talent and most bands are trying to live up to being like the bands that once were.

Opinions?
25.12.2011 - 22:41
Sammol
Written by Slayer666 on 25.12.2011 at 16:14

Written by Sammol on 25.12.2011 at 15:42

It's impossible to innovate BM further.


Sarcasm?
Because if not, you're either deaf or you're not keeping up with the genre nowadays.


It's either the innovation is not significant to be recognized or no innovation at all.

Sure there are good bands today but they offer nothing new.

However, old bands sound more 'fresh' to me.
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25.12.2011 - 23:17
Vombatus
Potorro
Quote:
Quote:
Written by Sammol on 25.12.2011 at 15:42






It's either the innovation is not significant to be recognized or no innovation at all.

Sure there are good bands today but they offer nothing new.


What makes innovation significant ? It's pretty subjective... but I'd love to hear a second wave band that did "hipster-BM" (to call it something), weird stuff like the Meads of Asphodel , Lifelover or the quite unique french scene.

Metal in general is always changing, possible to mix with anything. And BM is no exception.
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26.12.2011 - 06:47
Sammol
BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.

If you mix death metal and black metal, it'll be under death metal no matter how small the DM element is.

If you innovate BM it'll be out of the genre already.
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26.12.2011 - 12:37
vezzy
Stallmanite
Written by Sammol on 26.12.2011 at 06:47
BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.


Hey, didn't that church-burning pagan guy kill you 18 years ago?
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26.12.2011 - 15:06
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
Written by Sammol on 26.12.2011 at 06:47

BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.

If you mix death metal and black metal, it'll be under death metal no matter how small the DM element is.

If you innovate BM it'll be out of the genre already.

I love witnessing people make total arses of themselves over the internet. This statement is the equivalent of watching a toddler fall down a flight of stairs. Hilarious!

And I've never, ever met a black metal purist/elitist who hates death metal in a purist/elitist way. Absolute utter nonsense if you ask me.
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26.12.2011 - 15:12
Slayer666
Written by Sammol on 26.12.2011 at 06:47

BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.

If you mix death metal and black metal, it'll be under death metal no matter how small the DM element is.

If you innovate BM it'll be out of the genre already.


I was going to post an elaborate response to your previous post, but then I took an arrow in the knee saw this one and figured out you're a troll.
Nicely played, sir.
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26.12.2011 - 15:19
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
I hope the arrow to the knee meme never goes away. It makes everything 57% more satisfying.
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26.12.2011 - 15:22
X-Ray Rod
Skandino
Staff
Written by Guest on 26.12.2011 at 15:06
This statement is the equivalent of watching a toddler fall down a flight of stairs. Hilarious!


You could be a wonderful father.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
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26.12.2011 - 15:28
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
If I was a father I'd make sure I lived atop a lighthouse.
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26.12.2011 - 15:34
X-Ray Rod
Skandino
Staff
Written by Guest on 26.12.2011 at 15:28

If I was a father I'd make sure I lived atop a lighthouse.


You could also eat them hamster style.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
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26.12.2011 - 15:35
Slayer666
Written by Guest on 26.12.2011 at 15:28

If I was a father I'd make sure I lived atop a lighthouse.


If I ever have kids but don't want them, I'm going to make sure you're the one who will adopt them.
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29.12.2011 - 02:05
Savopipo
Written by Guest on 26.12.2011 at 15:06

Written by Sammol on 26.12.2011 at 06:47

BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.

If you mix death metal and black metal, it'll be under death metal no matter how small the DM element is.

If you innovate BM it'll be out of the genre already.

I love witnessing people make total arses of themselves over the internet. This statement is the equivalent of watching a toddler fall down a flight of stairs. Hilarious!

And I've never, ever met a black metal purist/elitist who hates death metal in a purist/elitist way. Absolute utter nonsense if you ask me.

I agree.
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29.12.2011 - 02:08
Savopipo
Written by X-Ray Rod on 26.12.2011 at 15:22

Written by Guest on 26.12.2011 at 15:06
This statement is the equivalent of watching a toddler fall down a flight of stairs. Hilarious!


You could be a wonderful father.

I actually saw that happen with one of my kids and I tell you I couldn't care less about metal sub gengres at the time.
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10.01.2012 - 17:08
larshammer
Written by Sammol on 26.12.2011 at 06:47

BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.


I guess I haven't heard yet such a silly comment like this. Black metal was a kind of pan-metal that was gathering up all metal influences under metal's true opposer character that was represented as satanism, blasphemy etc. And even as anarchism while it is the main deal of punk culture, though crusts were highly influenced by early Celtic Frost.
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11.01.2012 - 06:45
Savopipo
Written by larshammer on 10.01.2012 at 17:08

Written by Sammol on 26.12.2011 at 06:47

BM is an exception because it's the genre of the purists and elitists. Some even hate death metal.


I guess I haven't heard yet such a silly comment like this. Black metal was a kind of pan-metal that was gathering up all metal influences under metal's true opposer character that was represented as satanism, blasphemy etc. And even as anarchism while it is the main deal of punk culture, though crusts were highly influenced by early Celtic Frost.


I believe you're right. I distictly remeber hearing one of the early members of Mayhem stating that they were even influenced by Pink Floyd. How elitist metal is that?
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12.01.2012 - 21:01
larshammer
Elitism in black metal is not something like hating all of the genres out of black metal but instead standing against the clowning and corrupting black metal such as representing intending to create a dairy farm on the mountain top and raise some pagan cows and accouple them with orcs in a rustic tradition as "evil". Besides, making black metal a tool for commerce as almost all of the overground black metal bands do is not true if you base on elitist attitude.
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12.01.2012 - 22:11
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist
Staff
Written by larshammer on 12.01.2012 at 21:01
Besides, making black metal a tool for commerce as almost all of the overground black metal bands do is not true if you base on elitist attitude.

With the exception of underground bands that achieve success and continue to play the same style that garnered them success in the underground.

Aside from that I completely agree with your point.
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13.01.2012 - 18:06
Guib
Thrash Talker
There is no purpose in creating new black metal, I would even say that there was no purpose in creating black metal at all, in the first place (troll face)
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16.01.2012 - 11:06
Savopipo
Written by Guib on 13.01.2012 at 18:06

There is no purpose in creating new black metal, I would even say that there was no purpose in creating black metal at all, in the first place (troll face)

I agree whith there's no purpose in creating new Black Metal but I think there should be a development of music that is rooted in what is today knows at Black Metal just as Black Metal itself was a development from what was played by the likes of Venom, Celtic Frost, early Sodom and Bathory. Music is not something static that will remain forever but a ever evolving beast where each new generation will create and listen to things that the previous generation generally find not listnable. Personally I am one of the exceptions that try to keep up with what's happening and relate to the newer things that wasn't around when I was a kid but most of my friends from the past has "matured" and are either still listening to their 80-ies and early 90-ies records or to contemporary records that sound like them!
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16.01.2012 - 11:50
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist
Staff
If there isn't a purpose in creating new black metal then there isn't a purpose for me to listen to metal at all.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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16.01.2012 - 12:25
Savopipo
Written by Troy Killjoy on 16.01.2012 at 11:50

If there isn't a purpose in creating new black metal then there isn't a purpose for me to listen to metal at all.

If you can only listen to music that sounds like Black Metal the way it sounded during a certain time period and can't accept any evolution or change then you probably will have a hard time finding something to listen to in say 10 years. That said I don't think you understood me correctly. What I mean is that the genre Black Metal shouldn't develop but there should be another genre or sub-genre that carries the torch. Traditional Black Metal can continue for the enjoyment of people (much like heavy metal still do) but the new genre would be the future form of the music we today label Black Metal.
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16.01.2012 - 16:03
X-Ray Rod
Skandino
Staff
Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 12:25
the genre Black Metal shouldn't develop but there should be another genre or sub-genre that carries the torch. Traditional Black Metal can continue for the enjoyment of people (much like heavy metal still do) but the new genre would be the future form of the music we today label Black Metal.


You make it sound like most of modern BM bands should have another label instead of Black metal.
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Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
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16.01.2012 - 18:13
Savopipo
Written by X-Ray Rod on 16.01.2012 at 16:03

Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 12:25
the genre Black Metal shouldn't develop but there should be another genre or sub-genre that carries the torch. Traditional Black Metal can continue for the enjoyment of people (much like heavy metal still do) but the new genre would be the future form of the music we today label Black Metal.


You make it sound like most of modern BM bands should have another label instead of Black metal.


That wasn't my intention. What I'm trying to say is that today more and more music is labelled Black Metal but I don't think they really belong in the genre. For instance Shining (Nor) should probably be called something else than Black Metal and I suspect that the longer the evolution takes us the term Black Metal will be less and less meaningful as long as we keep putting new bands in it. Then it's better to let a new "main" genre develop. A certain development of the genre Black Metal will of course still be interresting but not to the extend that some people are starting to stretch it already.
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16.01.2012 - 18:28
X-Ray Rod
Skandino
Staff
Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 18:13

For instance Shining (Nor) should probably be called something else than Black Metal and I suspect that the longer the evolution takes us the term Black Metal will be less and less meaningful as long as we keep putting new bands in it.


Wait, The band Shining from Norway is labelled here as avantgarde metal / jazz.
Nothing black going on there at all.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
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16.01.2012 - 18:36
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Elite
Written by X-Ray Rod on 16.01.2012 at 18:28

Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 18:13

For instance Shining (Nor) should probably be called something else than Black Metal and I suspect that the longer the evolution takes us the term Black Metal will be less and less meaningful as long as we keep putting new bands in it.


Wait, The band Shining from Norway is labelled here as avantgarde metal / jazz.
Nothing black going on there at all.


They are labeld as avantgard black or jazz black quite a lot to be honest, although there is no black going on there. I think it has to do with their collaborations with Enslaved.
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16.01.2012 - 18:40
X-Ray Rod
Skandino
Staff
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 16.01.2012 at 18:36
They are labeld as avantgard black or jazz black quite a lot to be honest, although there is no black going on there. I think it has to do with their collaborations with Enslaved.


That's retarded, not like I want to make generalisations but it sounds like classic pretentious behavior from some asshole that wants to say that they like Black Metal.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
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16.01.2012 - 18:40
Savopipo
Written by X-Ray Rod on 16.01.2012 at 18:28

Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 18:13

For instance Shining (Nor) should probably be called something else than Black Metal and I suspect that the longer the evolution takes us the term Black Metal will be less and less meaningful as long as we keep putting new bands in it.


Wait, The band Shining from Norway is labelled here as avantgarde metal / jazz.
Nothing black going on there at all.

That was just an example. I've heard them labelled Black Metal but it not important I think you can understand what I mean.
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16.01.2012 - 18:43
X-Ray Rod
Skandino
Staff
Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 18:40
That was just an example. I've heard them labelled Black Metal but it not important I think you can understand what I mean.


Yes and no.

Yes: People are clearly retarded if they want to label stuff like the norwegian Shining as black
No: There's no need to create another name if you can easily label them with the current ones we have, worst case scenario: Just ignore the dumb people.
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
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16.01.2012 - 20:56
Savopipo
Written by X-Ray Rod on 16.01.2012 at 18:43

Written by Savopipo on 16.01.2012 at 18:40
That was just an example. I've heard them labelled Black Metal but it not important I think you can understand what I mean.


Yes and no.

Yes: People are clearly retarded if they want to label stuff like the norwegian Shining as black
No: There's no need to create another name if you can easily label them with the current ones we have, worst case scenario: Just ignore the dumb people.

I guess time will tell.
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22.01.2012 - 11:57
IncoherentScream
Ok, so this is where the argument of what is and what isn't Black Metal kind of confuses me a bit. For instance, some "purists" (read: assholes) tend to believe that if the lyrics aren't Satanic, then it's not Black Metal. So that would mean then that Wolves in the Throne Room isn't really Black Metal? Then we get weird sub genre labels like Frost Metal or Troll Metal or some shit like that.

So can someone here, and I'm not sure this is entirely possible, truly define what it is that makes a band Black Metal??? I've heard so many differing opinions that I stopped looking for an answer, but you guys seem intelligent enough to give some sort of response that will make more sense than the retarded shit I've read elsewhere.
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