Over Population
Original post
Posted by Soliloquy, 17.06.2006 - 19:39
if its a problem, how do we fix it?
i personally think that at the rate the world population is going, we would cause our own judgement day before God planned to. i mean, look at countries like China, and India. sure, their economy is going high, but at the same time, the world pollution is going high. sure china put a limit on thier child birth, and they limited a couple to only have 1 child. if they exceed that limit, they would be paying tons of taxes. India on the other hand doesnt have that limit. its population is almost 1 billion(that is 1 sixth of the world population), and its still sky rocketing.
Kenya's population growth rate is at a 4.6(or was it a 4.8?) percent. what that means is that in the next 16 years, their population would double. and then it would take them 12 years to double that. and then 7 years to double that. Kenya's growth rate is by far, the fastest in the world. and has been the fastest in over the 100 years or so?
what does over population mean to the world? well, for one, the more people there are, the more land they take up. for example, 75% of the kenyan population is living on farmlands. if that wasnt bad enough, countries have to get rid of tons and tons of forests to make room for more people to live. since the government cant keep up with such a big population, people start to take matters in their own hand. they start cutting down woods for fire, or thier stove. and if they are hungry, they start hunting, which is bringing the animal population to a down low as well. and if you look at this in an economic point of veiw, if people start living on farmlands, than the country's government would have to increase their imports just to keep up with the population's demands. and what would happen if the government cant handel that demand? you can only imagine.
just imagine what the world would be like when its population doubles to 12 billion?. people would be fighting for the necsesities needed to live. stuff like water, food, shelter, clothing. and if everyone is cramped together, there would be a huge rise in the diseases(if you know your history, look what happend to athens when they build a wall around their city.). people would be living in their own filth.
and if that wasnt bad enough, if people contine to cut down the trees, then the greenhouse gases would contine to fuck our ozone layer, which would mean that the place would get hotter, and hotter still. is that bad? yes! for starters, the ice caps from the north pole, and south pole will melt. who cares? well, north pole, sure its no actual land, but it is just a huge chunk of floating ice that is around 3 miles deep. (wait..was it 3 or 2 miles deep?) and the ice on south pole is about 3 miles deep. you melt those, and you would get a major flood. the only living lands to survive that would be mountian peeks like mount everest, or those rocky pillars in south america. how can the world population live on those tiny islands? well, they cant. first reason being that it would be so close to the sun, that it would be series of heat strokes. on top of that, man cant survive with ocean water. but then again, our ocean water has been polluted. and we have killed about i think 75% of the fish that lived near coastal areas. so really, we cant live.
and if you think that that wont happen, or its impossible to happen....well they say(discovery channel. you gotta love it!) that the jungel as thick as the amazons has been loosing trees every day. people have been clearing about 1 to 1 and a half lenghts of football fields in trees alone. and with the african and indian population sky rocketing, their forests would be chopped down soon.
a cure? a solution? what, put a manditory ban on couples world wide? that wont work becuase a lot of third world countries need more than one child in the family to either work on the famrs, in facotires, or look after diseased family members. and on top of that, those families alose loose tons of kids becuase of diseases. on top of that, even if we were to put that limit on them, it wont work. reason ebing that people just dont listen.
sow hat is the cure to stop this from happening? shut down all the factories? people are money hungry. that wont happen. im sure someone like billgates can buy a country if he pleases. so that wont work
a war? creat a holocaust to sacrifice all the people in the world? humm...that would be WAY to ethical. and that would also cuase a huge riot, and racism would be on the rise becuase people would say 'who to kill?' anarchy would break down on the streets. no, anarchy is not a good thing becuase it would be that everyman is his own government. it just wont work...
so is over population a serious delema that people should worry about? is there soemthing that can be done to stop it? what should happen? your views and opinions
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Posts: 1892  |
Posts: 1892
FUCK YEAH! this topic went on to the second page! anyways @Bas2, true, these homeless people dont do anything, nor do the sick, or the ill, or the retired people. they arent doing anything, which means they are just taking up room. they arent exactly contributing to the pollution. the people who are working, and are making 100's or 1000's of millions of dollars are the major contributors of pollution. and they are the ones that are asking for more and more. they wont really be satisfied by living in one house with one car. they would rather have 4 cars, and 5 hourses, and tons of other shit. so really, they both are on the hit list. one of the people take up room, and dont to much. the other are doing a lil too much. there arent really people in the middle of this. like you either take up room, or you take up room AND do other harmful stuff one way or another. on top of that, these inmates, who are serving life sentence often enough are treated much much better than most of the working class. i mean, if you take a theriving country like Canada, whoes GDP(per person on average) is $34,000. and Switzerland's is at $32,300. now with that sum of money, a person can lead a decent life. yet in north america, to take care of an inmate who is there for life, it takes up about $44, 000 US dollars. so really, these inmates, in my eyes, do not really serve a purpose. (makes you wanna commite some crime to serve life dont you? haha, just joking) so yeah, there has to be some sort of pandemic? they say that this Bird Flu can turn into a pandemic that can take millions of people away. and apperently, people who are healthy are the ones at risk here. reason being, once you get in contact with the bird flu, then your immune system hits on overdrive, and thats what eventually kills you. people who arent as healthy would more likely survive this becuase if they are contacted with the bird flu, their immune system would just react to it. it wont really go on over drive. now, relativly speaking, that would take out millions of people who are between the ages of about 16 to around 40. reason being, that most of the healthy people lie within these age grounds. at the same time, most of over weight people, or people who just arent healthy would survive. this leaves out the kids, and the old people. so around 2 genreations would be lost becuase of this. wait...actually, take out the old people from that list. reason being, as they age, their immune system starts to go down. kinda like AIDS. AIDS doesnt kill you. it just knocks out your immune system, which leaves you invunrable to tiny sickness like a common cold that kill you. old people have wearer immune systems. if they are knocked out, then that would leave the young generation, ageing between 6-16(any younger, they are fragile, and can get sick easy!). humm...remember Stephen King's book, 'children in the corn field'? it would almost be like that
---- now get on your knees and worship me! -Zakk Wylde
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| Callette
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Callette
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What about the gene technology..? I mean, I really don't believe it would save us but I got one (surely grazy) idea. Scientists could develop some.. well, medicine isn't the correct word maybe, but yes... something that would make people not getting any children. I don't know if it would be ethic and agreeable idea but it would work. And the rich countries could send more money to the africa and asia to support the poor families. And there wouldnt be any killing!  Or then just move in finland, the population is already getting smaller here 
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Posts: 5591 Written by Soliloquy on 02.07.2006 at 19:04 why cant people with a slightly dminished immune system get the birdflu? i didnt really get that one, as to the old and sick people not doing much bad to the planet i agree here, however they do bad to society because they cost so much money Written by [user id=14676] on 05.07.2006 at 20:40 the problem is however, alot of people want children, there would be ways to make sure they cant get any anymore, thats not the problem, such methods do exist (although mainly through operations, not through medicine) in china there is a law which makes couples with more then one child have to pay much more taxes, but it wouldnt be a good idea to do this everywhere in the world because in china there are also lots of problems with fat kids because the parents spoil their kids so much, and give them as much and unhealthy food as they want, often this wouldnt be the case if they had more children, so it should either be a few, or no children, however how should we determine in a fair way who is allowed to get them and who isnt? we cant
---- BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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Well, I live in Sweden and here we only have a population about 10 000 000, which is very little considering that our country can hold much more. But I never think about this over population thing. But it sure is a problem in those poor countries.
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Posts: 13427 Written by Bas on 05.07.2006 at 20:43 Yes, they do. But don't forget that the elder were the moneymakers twenty years ago.
---- SLUDGE. DOOM. DEATH. Wait, what?  "The reason I'm running for president is because I can't be Bruce Springsteen." - Barack Obama
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Posts: 5591 Written by Lucas on 05.07.2006 at 22:45 well yes, but that money is long since gone, spent on all kinds of things, except when they saved extremely much they'll only cost a lot, either for their families or for the state btw have you read what i wrote in my first post in this thread about the old people? the last part of that post when i remember correctly
---- BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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i also once read something, it was a futuristic scenario, it was about a future were old people were retired at the age of 60, then got enough money from the state to spend 5 happy years and then they peacefully went to some place where they got a deadly medicament, they were aware that it would happen but they knew that with this system their sons and daughters have a future, because they dont work and contribute much to society anyway if they would get older, they just occupy space and cost money, and in this scenario the overpopulation of the planet was even much higher then today, they also got 5 whole years of absolute peace and enough money to live happily i dont know if something like this would ever be possible, but its definitely something we might have to think about.. This part. I kinda overlooked it, I guess. I don't think this will become the truth, ever. The elder wont agree with it, the sons and daughters wont agree with it, noone will. The government would be a murderer. People with mental diseased (so badly, that they can't contribute to society) aren't killed either, this has no chance. Me thinks.
---- SLUDGE. DOOM. DEATH. Wait, what? "The reason I'm running for president is because I can't be Bruce Springsteen." - Barack Obama
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well in that scenario overpopulation was even more then a problem nowadays and those people knew that it was the best for everyone if they go, further they didnt have any pain or anything and after stopping with working they had a full five years during which they got lots of money to have a nice life in their final years
---- BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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| Callette
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@Bas2, Calletta. Those are two possibilities, but I don't think that in the nearest 1.000.000.000 years a law like that could pass through. IMO, of course.
---- SLUDGE. DOOM. DEATH. Wait, what? "The reason I'm running for president is because I can't be Bruce Springsteen." - Barack Obama
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Posts: 1892 Written by Bas on 05.07.2006 at 20:43 reason being that people whos immune system is AMAZING, once they get in contact with the bird flu, their immune system would kick in, and start over working until it just gets over used, and give up on the body. people with shitty immune system, if they get in contact with the bird flu, their immune system would slightly react to the flu. it wont go on over drive becuse their immune system was never at its best. it would start working, but it wont over load itself till complete failure.
---- now get on your knees and worship me! -Zakk Wylde
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Posts: 5591 Written by Soliloquy on 06.07.2006 at 18:20 interesting, thanks alot
---- BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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Ok I would like to contribute some of my thoughts in this thread. First of all - about the colonisation of other planets - I realy don't think it is possible. How is it possible, with current technology, to transfer billions of people to other planets. How much humans are we currently sending out of space? Do we even have enough ressourcers to build so many/so big space ships? With current technology I realy cant see a way to transfer masses to other planets. Another trouble is that there are realy no planets that suit to humans nearby - well Mars kind of would be if it had more oxygen(0.15% in atmosphere isnt enough I think) or water. Other problem with it would be, as other already stated, that humans would probably just destroy the colonised planet. Then travel to next planet maybe? It is funny how in TV there are lots of movies about evil aliens coming and trieng to invade our "good" society and take all our ressources(like movie Independence Day), but I think that humans would act just the same.  2)About the killing of old people(or them killing themselves) and ultra extreme punishments(killing for most crimes). Damn, I realy don't like those ideas . I think that these scenarios are too utopic for current society. It would take a lot of time for society to progress in that direction. On the other hand, when the overpopulation has become by far realy the n1 problem in world, the society may accept it quickly to survive. But I still do not like those ideas. I suppose I am a sissy or something .3)I think that the best solution would be the way China is doing it. Only one child in family in overpopulated countries(heavy taxes and disadvantages othervise). Make condomes and stuff more avaiable in poor countries. Offcourse if massive amount of childern is realy needed in poor countries to survive (farm needs workers) then the people will probably not give a f**k about these laws. Advanced/rich countries should support them maybe? Provide other ways to earn living(that dosent need massive reproduction)? Man I am out of ideas. Ok I was a bit drunk when I wrote this so I hope I didnt write too much bullshit.
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/\ YOU SISSY! YOU DIE NOW! i'm joking condoms do not work. they can work. and sure, some times they rip. but if the world were to use condoms, it would slow down the population drastically. but it wont help either way. reason being, 3rd world countries need a large family to support their family. the smaller the family is, the less chances they have of survival. plus, many 3rd world contries consider a man to be 'macho' if he has more than i believd 5 or 6 kids. on top of that, i think it was pope...umm..the pope that recently passed away. what was his name? in the early 90's, he went to tons of 3rd world countries, and NO! I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TO TIRN INTO A RELIGIOUS WAR THING, but he said how condoms are bad and should be used. and that men and women shouldnt need to use condoms, coz they can control themselves. knowing people, they just take one message and ignore the rest. so they stopped using condoms, and there is a rise of AIDS, and children ever since. and america stopped sending condoms to sewdan, kenya and some other african countries becuase they didnt like bush, or soemthing. so bush told em to fuck them selves, and they sure did fuck themselves. rich countries wont support the poor. and i think it was soemthing like the worlds 10 richest people can actually buy individual countreis and support it for a few decades on their own. yet would they dare help these countries? they can, but they wont. i mean, do people really need 10 billion dollars? even if they were to throw a dollar away EVERY second from now on till they die, i hardly doubt they would be able to knock off even 2 billion bucks. people want more and more money to do something...i'm not exactly sure what they need that much money for. oh yeah, if you're bill gates, then you buy a mountain, and a lake. and if you're sean conare, you buy yourself an island. oh yeah, like that will help the world  and yeah, the society wont change in time to save the world...but if some catastrophic event were to occur, millions of billions of people come out to support them. so the sociey needs soemthing really devasdating for them to change their ways. till them, we are just getting more and more screwed. by the way, i'm just wondering if we, as human beings are going back instead of forwards. i mean, they are creating these pills and stuff that help you live longer. they made this army suit that is almost invinsible. its like bullet proof from head to toe, with no weak points, its bomb proof, and can stand half of an atomic bomb, so basically, if anyone were to wear it, they are almost like walking gods. i'm not saying its good that soldiers die, but we have improved our life style so much comparing to the medieval ages. i mean, today, the average age for rich countreis is about 79-85 years of age. 3rd world countries average dying age is about 65-75. yet, in the medieval ages, normal peasents died at the age of 35 if they were lucky. the kings and queens tend to live off till they were even 90 if they were lucky. but yeah, are we going backwards, or forwards? is it a good change, or a bad change?
---- now get on your knees and worship me! -Zakk Wylde
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| Nyctophobia
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Posts: 5591 Written by FrozenSky on 07.07.2006 at 22:22 no, it wouldnt be possible with our current technology, but that doesnt matter, as far as i know the sun will explode in about 5 billion years, i suppose thats enough time to find and occupy some new planets. humans would destroy the colonized planet...would that really matter if there arent any living beings on it anyway? it may sound a bit harsh, but i think no one would care about it if we destroy some random planets i dont like them either, but the space on our planet IS limited, if this birthrate continues we will probably have to do something we dont like i think i already stated what i dont like about that, for the case i didnt, if a couple has one child, the chance is extremely high that he will be spoiled, he'll get much more food then he needs if he/she wants it, thats the reason that there are so extremely much fat children in china,overweight is a problem in the whole western society aswell, but even more so in china, if the whole world were to adapt this rule...how bout you imagine a world where every child is 80+ kg? Written by Soliloquy on 07.07.2006 at 22:56 well actually, normally condoms are extremely safe, they can only rip or not work when the person who uses them uses a wrong size or doesnt use it correctly, and even then it must be an awfully cheap one if it would rip
---- BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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Posts: 1892 |
Posts: 1892
/\ yeah but still, 3rd world contries need more condoms, yet countries like america withdrew all condoms from there coz of some political differences. and guys who have aids, for some reason beleive that if they rape young virgin girls, they would get rid of their aids, and would pass it on to the girl. well, the girl gets it, but the guys dont get rid of the aids. so yeah, condoms wont really work in 3rd world countries
---- now get on your knees and worship me! -Zakk Wylde
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| Basso
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Posts: 1892 |
Posts: 1892
its not crazy. its just that they dont have proper education. we have 'doctors without borders' who go to africa, and give them health care, and they dont receive anything, yet we dont have any teachers to do so. their litracey rate is quite low, so naturally they would asume random stuff. not really their fault
---- now get on your knees and worship me! -Zakk Wylde
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| Basso
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Basso
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Well yes... I think I understand the situation, still it is so horrible 
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Posts: 1892 |
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sure, the next thing i'm going to say may sound grim, but its mother naturs way to get rid of us. the less literate people are, the more likey they will kill them selves, and then sodomize everything else with AIDS, or Ebold Virus(i wonder why no band ever sang about this..not even cannibal corpse :O) and other STD. with more STDS in the circulation, it would mean more and more people die like this dude in somewhere in canada got arrested becuase he spread AIDS to 3 or 4 other women, while he knew he had AIDS, and didnt tell anyone. and now he is in for life.so yeah, if nature does do soemthing, and send one of its minions to knock out a few people, it usually works against her. we humans are a tad bit too smart for our own good!
---- now get on your knees and worship me! -Zakk Wylde
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@Bas2: About colonising other planets - I meant that colonisation is not a possibility right now. With current technlogy we have to find other methods to stop overpopulation. About destroing planet- When there is no life in planet that is being colonised, then I have ofcourse nothing against it. I should have added, that i ment when (complex) lifeforms already exist on the planet, do we have the right to destroy it then?(Because I think it will probably happen, the destruction of planet that is.) About the other things - You may have a point there. I mean when the 1 child policy realy makes most of the yought extremely fat. Then we would have 2 not so effective to society contributing groups - old people and young realy fat people. Still i would probably go for 1 child policy and then, when the fattening is realy happening, start to find solution for the fattening .@ Nyctophobia: Thx for reading material. Quite interesting.(I dont know how much of that statistic and stuff said there is true ofocurse, didnt know half of those predictions for year 2000 realy). For those who are too lazy to read it: it spoke about not going to extreme/following blindly the environmentalism(which he said to be the new modern religion). I still am quite sceptical about the things he says, but atleast a interesting viewpoint. About overpopulation he said that many scientist claim that overpopulation will stop and population will start to reduce. It will be even smaller than now. I have heard those predictions myself too. I read in newspaper recently that if there are 12,6 billion people on the earth the population growth should stop. Srry I am too lazy though to search for some links right now.
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I look at "overpopulation" in two separate ways. In terms of room on the earth, the land is hardly occupied. It is literally dotted with cities...even countries such as Japan have nice countryside. However, most importantly, looking at the demographics of the global Economical scale, and also take into consideration Global Warming and other ecological issues, we're fucked. In other words, there is plenty of room for more people, but the more people there are, the lower the standard of global living will go.
---- Brujerizmo!
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| ScottishWarrior
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| Draklar
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Well if humans will have advanced ethics and will respect all other lifeforms, then colonisation would be ofcourse safer, but I think that there is still a pretty good chance that humans will be the same as they/we are now. There is a question though: to what exctent humans have right to intervene in other species evolution, when we colonise some planet? I guess it will depend on moral standards of the planet colonisation era. PS: This all seems to be a bit offtopci though
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If the evolutionists are correct, this is just another cause of an expanding universe. Our species is no more than another plant like organism that has just overcrowded the globe and will eventually self regulate to lower the population.
---- I swear by my life and love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor shall I ask another to live for me. John Galt
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| mortal enemy
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| mortal enemy
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