One of the biggest things I have trouble with when writing music is how to go about writing lyrics. Do any of you have any good tips for writing good lyrics that match with the music?

i used to just sit in front of the computer, open a notepad document and start writing, and mostly i'd dwell on a song for over an hour before it was complete.(i hate hand writing, i've been having trouble with it for ages since my writing is just repulsive lol)

I have terrible handwriting, but for some reason when I make an effort to go to the computer and type, I don't get any good ideas :/

Written by Hangar XVIII on 28.04.2008 at 21:36

One of the biggest things I have trouble with when writing music is how to go about writing lyrics. Do any of you have any good tips for writing good lyrics that match with the music?

Well, there are a number of lyrical styles, and I on a constant am trying to expand myself with them.

The first style I'll talk about is the one that comes most naturally to me- Straightforward. A straightforward lyrical style normally has a messege to be portrayed that is Political or Societal, and well, doesn't use symbolism, but is just as the name suggests, it's straightforward. Lyrics like this are more akin to old school thrash metal bands, such as Megadeth (see Holy Wars.) So yeah, that's the sort of thing I used to write all the time, but have since then moved to other styles.

Another style is one that uses Symbolism. Symbolic Lyricism is used alot by Nightwish, Tuomas Hallepenin (I don't think I spelled his name right) uses emotional experiences he's had and shrouds them in a form of poem, and normally can be interpreted in multiple ways by listeners. This style, while no better than a straight forward lyrical format, yet may require just a little more thought, as you need to think of things to represent and symbolize objects, experiences, people, etc.

It all really depends on how you, personally, write lyrics naturally. Think about that, and then expand from there.

I have never sat down and said "Oh how about I write some lyrics?" Most of the time lyrics come to me in all odd places.

One example is my song "Lost Cowboy" which is sort of my personal reflection and testimony of the past few years. I was driving back from work one day (this was when I was a carpenter building log cabins" and I see this old grocery store with the name painted on the side but it was so old that it had faded into illegible bland colors. I pulled my car over, wiped out my cell phone and started recording what I saw into my voice memo thing. Later on I listened to it and found some great imagery to pull from it like "faded words on faded walls" which fit nicely into the song.

Other times I'll be at a worship service and just fall on my knees, begin crying and grab my notebook and start writing. I never know what I am writing until I get home later and read it. I become so filled with the Spirit that I write stuff about my life that I never would have vocalized. Many times what I write really hits me deep and brings about much repentance. So often those messy words I wrote down become lyrics of some form or fashion.

Every once and while I am also inspired by something I read, or watch. As of right now, I am working on turning the opening of Ecclesiastes into a song.

"Meaningless! Meaningless!"
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."

What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?

Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.


Yeah, kind of depressive.

But anyway, that is just me.

i'm very much alike dane train. i've also never really sat down and said like 'ok, i'll, write some lyrics now...', in fact, i've never really written any lyrics, since i find poetry and this kinda style somehow intimidating now that so many great things have been done in so many great ways, that trying to match it, or at least do something like it is kinda hard.

anyway, inspiration comes the same way as with him too, it may be from something i read, or something i see, listen to... whatever. having that then my mind sort of automatically turn on and uses it's natural 'fucked-upness', hehe, and just turn it into whatever it may be. poetry is very hard form me, so mostly i just write short stories, but occasionally a poem comes out.

my recommendation would be for example to read poetry, any type of poetry, so you can get like an idea of structure, themes, how to use certain subjects or symbolism like arian totalis said. the rest is just letting your mind, feelings and thoughts work, just say what you feel or whatever, no matter how it comes out. then once you have something on the paper, even if it's just ideas all over or whatever, start shaping it how you want it, and something will come out.

good luck on this! i see you aready have some very good advices

I personally find it a lot harder to write lyrics meant for a song then actually writing riffs, harmonies, progressions , etc. But usually, if I try to fit in lyrics into a song or something, I start out with something really simple like a line of words for each measure, or every other measure. Depends on the speed of the song really...

One thing that I do when I want to find out how certain lyrics work over given riffs, is just to talk over the riffs without using any effort to hit any real notes, like spoken word or something. It's pretty fun though, especially if you are improvising and the lines are predictable, just take anything off the top of your head and just ramble.

But to be perfectly honest, I've been writing poems ever since I could remember, some people encourage to use them for lyrics. The only problem is that after one writes a poem at a given time and looks at it much later, sometimes they lol at how your attitude towards writing changed, that being said, influences and goals always change for me in terms of writing music, so it seems useless to force myself to relate a song I've written to a bunch of lines that weren't meant for that particular motif.

Here are some more ideas, helping you put on fire both ends of the candle:
1. Get informed. The same way you read books on music, get tabs and do exercises and so on, you should get informed about poetry. Read some. Lots of it, actually. Learn about theory of literature and things like that. Realize that music and poetry have an interwoven history and that many elements in the theory of one domain used to describe both music and poetry. Like rythm. Poetry has rythm - and the old greek rythms applied to both music and lyrics. That's the "scientific" approach.
2. Get creative. Just write some goddamn lyrics. Like improvising. Don't like what you came up with? Try again! Try something else. Repeat. Here's a little exercise that takes 5 minutes per day and will get your creative muscle flexed in no time: a.) get paper and a pen b.) pick a subject c.) write about that subject, uninterrupted, for 5 minutes. d.) do this at least once a day. Can't find a subject? Pick some random subject like the first line in the newspaper, the first words you hear when you turn on your tv or some equally meaningless crap. VERY IMPORTANT: You probably won't find anything meaningful to write on your first few attempts, but do it anyway. It doesn't matter if the words even make sense. WRITE! The only condition is that you write, focusing on your subject and that you write UNINTERRUPTED for 5 minutes straight. This is called "disassociative writing" and it works like magic. Your text might not make any sense at first, but trust me, a couple of months of this stuff will turn you into a fucking poetry machine. But you have to do it (daily) for it to work. And you have to keep doing it, fanatically. You'll see some improvements pretty quickly. And afterwards, you'll see some improvements that you'll hardly believe.

Goodluck.

Good advice Ameretat, reading definitely helps to expand ones vocabulary and it may help with just writing in general; too bad I can't seem to stay interested in a book very often.

Writing lyrics is alot harder than I anticipated. I took a creative writing class when I was in high school but I don't think it was very good, I focused alot on vampyrism and macabre imagery. It's not so hard to just write lyrics that will suffice, but to write good lyrics that may even have some personal significants or to create something that will impact others is the tricky part.

I personally like to write things out by hand, it just feels more personal and malleable whereas sitting down at the computer is just so dry and lifeless. Having a dictionary and thesaurus is also really handy.
When I hear a song, be it something I've created or that someone else has made I get very vague colour and shape impressions in my mind, it's quite subtle but it does give some definition and body to audio and this can help when creating a song in every aspect.

Good points made by everyone. For me to start writing something, there must be a special mood (usually "fucked up"). In most cases, lyrics come to my head randomly and just as Dane Train said in odd places. So it's very important to have a notebook with you to jot something down immediately as it hits your mind. Very often it happens so that I don't have my notebook with, and in a couple of minutes the "fucked-up mood" is gone, and when I come home I remember nothing of my thoughts. One example... I remember breaking up with my girlfriend... After the unpleasant conversation occurred and we both went our ways, I went home, and when got out of the subway, it was raining cats and dogs, but I didn't care much and just walked to catch a tram. Before I got to the station (7 minutes) I had a song in my head containing four quatrains, but when I got home in 20 minutes, I couldn't get it down on paper; I actually didn't even want to. So, man, walk with some little notebook always and everywhere (I should start doing it myself).

And one more thing. If you are writing a song, and then you are stuck half way on something and can't finish the verse, ask yourself a question, "What I am trying to say?" Think what you would say if it was prose you were writing and then try to express that idea with different words (even if they are clear only to you). Just always keep in mind the idea you want to express, and then experiment (works especially well with Symbolism lyrics mentioned by Arian Totalis).

P.S. Oh, and one question to everybody... do you find it easier to write lyrics when you have your music ready or vice versa? Or does it not matter at all?

Some people say that it's easier to write music to your finished lyrics. Other people say it's easier to write lyrics to your finished music. I guess it's just the same - and people just find the way they initially did it "easier". It's like trying to write with your left hand: it seems harder, because you're not used to it. But once you "get it", it becomes just as easy.

So I suggest constantly trying out both ways. It can only be for the better.

yeah all i do i , i make all guitar work, bass, drums, then i make a up lyrics, its kust like writing your own fantasy book i guess you can make up anything you want hehe thats what i do with ;p

I try to have fun when i write lyrics. at present im workin on an overly violent cover of a Neutral Milk Hotel song, yeah its not metal but its overly violent and awesome. i'll post it when i've refined it to my liking.

A lot of times I just try and think of just one line, and then the rest just seems to fol,low naturally. Usually, I write about shit I hate or my thoughts on life, the universe, etc.

One thing you should do is study different styles of poetry. Like Shakespearean, or Petrarchan. They are usually the base for song lyrics. Anyways, You should write to the tune of your music or play to the beat of the lyrics. Time signatures such as 1/4, you could write lines of four, ergo, you have a verse.

I write helllluv good parody songs. i try to write my songs in the vein of the originals, but with much more graphic lyrics.

Inspiration to lyrics comes in different ways for me.
Sometimes a cool or thoughtful line just pops into my head and I start from there.
Often it can take weeks before I can get a chorus out of it for example.
Some songs I´ve been working on for years, some are completely rewritten and some just line by line.

Sometimes a subject, from tv, books, movies, friends comes up and I just set my head to write about it.
Again, I can dwell on it for days and weeks until I finally put it on paper. I do find typing less creative for some reason,
despite the fact that my handwriting is horrible.

My tip for new writers is to just write down thoughts, words or sentences. Don´t mind the context, specific styles, the form or whatever.
Keep writing and before you know it you´ll have a finished lyric. And do use synonym/rhyming-dictionaries, it helps alot.

Many of my own lyrics I don´t really know where they come from, I just write them down and find my personal meaning to them later.
And don´t be afraid to show the lyrics to people, its scary but the critism is very useful, you will only get better.

Don't force it, and don't try to rhyme words at first - if you ever want to rhyme anyways, which I dont recommend.

Write it out as a short story first, not losing any of the meaning by trying to get a correct number of syllables in a stanza or rhyming words. Once you have written the raw essence of the message you want to convey, then break it down and try to loose as little of the meaning or direct message as possible. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but it is ideal to keep it together, obviously.

Secondly - I enjoy writing an entire album at one time centered on a single concept. You WILL NOT get writers block if you're writing something you feel genuinely passionate about and are well informed of. I try to stay away from a chorus...just a personal opinion of mine, but I believe it to show a general lack of ingenuity...but it's for some and not for others I suppose.

As for matching the lyrics with the music - I write books upon books of lyrics, and then embark upon songwriting. It is best to match the lyrics to the music, not try to write a song around lyrics, I believe. However im sure doing it another way wouldn't hurt...I picked up this method from Johan Hegg of Amon Amarth on an internet blog and it has served me well ever since.

If you wanna check out some of the stuff I play (drums) it's at www.myspace.com/silentantipathy

I fear it is impossible to force words on to a paper and get a pleasing resulte, since I write mainly dark thing that fit black metal I do not think writing should be rushed, if you sit infront of a paper in a perpuse of writing a song or a story or anything it will not match your goals, you do not want to write, you need to, and if you write from a need you will convay your massage much better

I get my inspiration in LOTR. just saw that movie and milion things are coming in my mind.

But I have only one full song written and it is called "The Fallen King":devil:

p.s if i had grindcore band it would be easy for lyrics

I don't. I suck at it completely, not even 1% talented at it. 100% shit lyrics, lol.

Written by Arian Totalis on 29.04.2008 at 02:05

Another style is one that uses Symbolism. Symbolic Lyricism is used alot by Nightwish, Tuomas Hallepenin (I don't think I spelled his name right) uses emotional experiences he's had and shrouds them in a form of poem, and normally can be interpreted in multiple ways by listeners. This style, while no better than a straight forward lyrical format, yet may require just a little more thought, as you need to think of things to represent and symbolize objects, experiences, people, etc.

It all really depends on how you, personally, write lyrics naturally. Think about that, and then expand from there.

holy shit dude i noticed this just now you completely butchered that dude's name.. it's Holopainen

i agree though pretty much all lyrics could be put in either of those 2 categories

I can only get lyrics out of my head if I've had a shitty day or something has hurt me deeply...I've tried to creatively write lyrics based on this or that but they always sound pretensious or forced...lyrics have to be beleivable and from the heart/soul/whatever...that in my opinion is the only time you should write lyrics because people want to relate to them and feel what you're going through...

Ususally when I write lyrics it just happens. I can sit myself down & write something but it wont mean it'll be good. Motivation is the best tool. I have my periods of motivation in which i'll dish out sets of lyrics & i'll have my periods of dead time in which I wont create anything worthwhile. The same goes for writting music.

Written by Valentin B on 06.01.2009 at 15:28

Written by Arian Totalis on 29.04.2008 at 02:05

Another style is one that uses Symbolism. Symbolic Lyricism is used alot by Nightwish, Tuomas Hallepenin (I don't think I spelled his name right) uses emotional experiences he's had and shrouds them in a form of poem, and normally can be interpreted in multiple ways by listeners. This style, while no better than a straight forward lyrical format, yet may require just a little more thought, as you need to think of things to represent and symbolize objects, experiences, people, etc.

It all really depends on how you, personally, write lyrics naturally. Think about that, and then expand from there.

holy shit dude i noticed this just now you completely butchered that dude's name.. it's Holopainen

i agree though pretty much all lyrics could be put in either of those 2 categories

Yeah, alot of people struggling to write lyrics just don't understand those formats. Once they do, they'll be able to release their creativity much more easily.

Quote:

One of the biggest things I have trouble with when writing music is how to go about writing Lyrics. Do any of you have any good tips for writing good lyrics that match with the music?

yup! that is the most confusing and frustrating thing to do, whenyou are not good with words and exceptional with music...

Typically i first have idea about what the song should be, then do music and after then i am creating suitable lyrics

I've settled on a method after some trial and error. What seems to work for me best is letting the music in the song do the work. Usually leave the vocals for last (unless for some reason a song screams for a certain hooky line). That way I immerse myself in the music and it creates the mood for me. Based on such a mood I start mumbling syllables here and there and soon enough, phonics and syllables turn into words, into sentences, and into verses and chorus(es).

It seems to "flow" a lil better for me that way, than creating music to fit lyrics. To each their own.

Oh yea, and being a lil tipsy helps too.

Make sure you have a concept.

Nothing harder than writing lyrics with no inspiration at all, no theme, no concept, no anything but the will to write.

Just write a small storyline very briefly, say 'The grand conjurer destroys his army of mindless slaves because he simply has the ability to do so', and then work that down into some lyrics.