@Reinhardt: Right on brother.

Tommy Tee, your answer doesn't explain really much. You regard metalheads as the guys who dress "metal" because some of them have a stupid attitude, you can't just flush down the term because of some people.

You know you're a metalhead when...you bang your head into a wall and the wall falls down...

crap I'm so stupid

I think you have to have the mindset of a metal head. Angry, aggresive, feeling like you want to crush babies, you know the normal stuff. J/k, but anyhow, you don't have to dress it to be it. It certainly would help, but if you can't spend the money or just don't care it shouldn't make too mush of a difference (at least in your own opinion).

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 02:12

what the hell are you on about? is any of this relevent to what i said? im sure everyone else will understand what i mean by "dressing metal".

Quit butching your own language, will you? "Dressing metal" has completely different grammar structure to what you previously said and as such also different meaning.

And yes, it is relevant. You said it describes a way of dressing. Seeing as there are multiple typical ways of dressing within metal subculture, logically (and grammatically) it's impossible. Or do you actually believe the fashion hasn't changed at all since the 80s?

In reference to "dressing metal": Yes, you could say that metalhead is someone who uses one of metal fashions. But in a longer run, such categorization is pretty stupid. Metalheads will develop new ways of dressing. In such case people who start this new trend will suddenly be considered metalheads, even though they didn't change at all and weren't considered metalheads before.

@Blackgir: Well, I don't think many people having the same style of dressing within a subculture is a bad thing. I mean, it could appear stupid and annoying here, in a metal community, but that's basically because it is unneeded here. If you want to talk about something metal, you just come here and post. Not that hard.
But what if you want to meet people with same interests outside? It's easy when someone's wearing Manowar T-shirt and has "metalhead" written all over himself, because you can just approach him and go all "Hey, so you listen to Manowar?", but what if he doesn't? I mean, the fact that we all gather here on these forums proves that we have a need to communicate with people who listen to the same music as we do. It's harder to do that in real life when you cannot recognise such people.
I think sub-cultures are much like internet communities such as this one. People with same interests and beliefs gather together, they communicate, they learn certain habits from each other. They learn more about the things they like.
Personally, I'm really glad metalhead sub-culture exists. It changed me, a lot. And certainly for the better. It made me develop much stronger personality. And you know, I don't really consider myself a conformist now. I mean, I do dress metal, have long hair and stuff. But I don't look like that to appear cool to other people. I simply like it. I think many people forget that conforimity is about a conscious decision to follow some trend. I do believe most metalheads simply like black clothing and such, they don't wear those just to fit in. And about the long hair... Well it's not a secret that they're really useful during headbanging.
For the first time in my life I actually really like the clothes I wear and I'd have to be a die-hard anti-conformist to stop wearing them just because many other people do.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 05:56

Tommy Tee, your answer doesn't explain really much. You regard metalheads as the guys who dress "metal" because some of them have a stupid attitude, you can't just flush down the term because of some people.

the word metalhead simply means someone who tries to be part of the metal scene. i listen to a lot of metal but don't consider myself a metalhead and any idiot can buy a band t-shirt and start acting like an elitist prat to anyone who doesn't feel the need to tell the world that they like metal.

basically i think theres a difference between a metal fan (someone who is very interested in music, particualrly metal) and a metalhead (someone who thinks they're the business because they're wearing a band t-shirt. someone who pre-judges a band based on their image and status within the metal scene. someone who would rather buy a band t-shirt and download the music).

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 09:25

Quit butching your own language, will you? "Dressing metal" has completely different grammar structure to what you previously said and as such also different meaning.

LOL

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 09:25

And yes, it is relevant. You said it describes a way of dressing. Seeing as there are multiple typical ways of dressing within metal subculture, logically (and grammatically) it's impossible. Or do you actually believe the fashion hasn't changed at all since the 80s?

i understand that there are different ways of dressing within the metal fashion spectrum and that these fashions have changed over time. i don't understand what this has to do with what i said.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 15:27

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 05:56

Tommy Tee, your answer doesn't explain really much. You regard metalheads as the guys who dress "metal" because some of them have a stupid attitude, you can't just flush down the term because of some people.

the word metalhead simply means someone who tries to be part of the metal scene. i listen to a lot of metal but don't consider myself a metalhead and any idiot can buy a band t-shirt and start acting like an elitist prat to anyone who doesn't feel the need to tell the world that they like metal.

basically i think theres a difference between a metal fan (someone who is very interested in music, particualrly metal) and a metalhead (someone who thinks they're the business because they're wearing a band t-shirt. someone who pre-judges a band based on their image and status within the metal scene. someone who would rather buy a band t-shirt and download the music).

i

That's all based on.....? The metal Bible? Or that's just your private opinion?

I start to believe you don't even know what you have said...

Written by -tom- on 14.10.2006 at 20:10

the word "metalhead" simply describes a way of dressing

And you don't understand what "different ways of dressing" has to do with it?

Apparently you believe metalheads dress in certain ways just to look metal. But then I have to ask: Why are metalheads showing completely different styles of clothing at once? If every single one of us is a total conformist, then why aren't we all dressing in a similar way? I for example wouldn't want to wear a leather jacket. But I know a metalhead who likes those and not because he wants to look metal, but because he likes the biker look.
The only thing you can accuse metal clothing for is that it doesn't include casual clothes. But here's a news flash: Many metalheads aren't casual people. Considering very often one's clothing reflects his personality, I don't see why would they wear casual stuff. Try being a bit less cynical and a bit more open-minded.

And unless you're making your own clothes and they look nothing like what today's fashion has to offer, you're not in possition to criticize metalheads clothing in that way or another. Because in the end you're following some sort of fashion just as well.

Anyway,
The word "metalhead" was primarily made up to refer to fans of metal. Just like headbanger.
It is used today mostly to refer to metal fans.
Unlike "metal fan", "the dude who dresses metal" isn't in common use, which puts into serious doubt that it could be replaced by such common word as "metalhead".

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 16:24

That's all based on.....? The metal Bible? Or that's just your private opinion?

yes, the metal bible. :

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 17:09

And you don't understand what "different ways of dressing" has to do with it?

errr.. no! there are different trends within the metal scene but i wasn't referring to that. i was naming 2 groups of people. those metal-fans who feel the need to show they are metal fans through the way they dress (in whatever way this may be) and those who don't.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 17:09

And unless you're making your own clothes and they look nothing like what today's fashion has to offer, you're not in possition to criticize metalheads clothing in that way or another. Because in the end you're following some sort of fashion just as well.

i don't follow any fashion with my clothes, nor do i go out of my way to try to be unfashionable. i simply wear what i think looks good. thats not the same as someone who consciously tries to follow a certain subcultures fashion.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 17:09

The only thing you can accuse metal clothing for is that it doesn't include casual clothes. But here's a news flash: Many metalheads aren't casual people. Considering very often one's clothing reflects his personality, I don't see why would they wear casual stuff. Try being a bit less cynical and a bit more open-minded.

define casual in terms of a personality trait. are you saying that metal fans dress in a certain way to be rebellious?

You know you're a metalhead when you start arguing with other metalheads on forums over petty differences in opinion. :

you posted a similar comment yesterday and it wasn't funny then. lets move on.

its not petty differences. we obviously have quite different opinions. and seeing as this is a discussion board, discussing these differences in opinion isn't unreasonable.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 18:33

i don't follow any fashion with my clothes, nor do i go out of my way to try to be unfashionable. i simply wear what i think looks good. thats not the same as someone who consciously tries to follow a certain subcultures fashion.

So you wear clothes that cannot be bought in any shops? Because whatever can be bought in those is part of fashion. Even something as simple as some plain blue T-shirt. I mean, 100 years ago people wouldn't wear stuff like that. People wear them today because today it's fashionable to wear a T-shirt. And what? Are you implying that it's impossible for me to actually like the 'metal' clothing?
I wear mostly combination of black and olive-green clothes. Why? Well I don't know, I have a deep interest in dark aspects of folklore, creepy stories and nature in general. I just find this combination to be very pleasening to my eyes. The olive-green is mostly military stuff. I just find that to be pretty cool looking and very comfortable.
I wear combat boots (asides during summer). They're comfortable, look awesome and they're pretty practival for me, since I tend to walk about 10 km/day. When I'm looking for different boots, I wind up with nothing. All I find is some fancy-shmancy stuff, while it's plain stuff for me, period.
I have long hair. Had them short for 18 years and finally decided I want some change. Metal provoked me to do this, that's true. But in a way that before it appeared in my life, I sticked with what is commonly accepted. I kept my hair short, but I hated going to hairdresser's and found it to be simply a waste of time. I didn't even think about sticking out of crowd. That changed. And long hair are also awesome when you want to headbang.
I sometimes wear band T-shirts, along with norse/fantasy related ones. I just find olive-green trousers and black T-shirt combination with optional combat jacket on top to look amazing. I also have a plain black T-shirt that I wear as much as the others.
I like plain and simple stuff. Black, hazy green and sometimes grey. Likewise, I prefer rather simple band T-shirt designs.
People recognise me as a metalhead without any problems. Never goth, as I don't go all-black or spikes.
And so what? Does that make me a poser? Conformist? Deliberate fashion-follower? I couldn't care less, but I'm asking for the sake of discussion.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 18:33

define casual in terms of a personality trait. are you saying that metal fans dress in a certain way to be rebellious?

Casual. Someone who doesn't
- have an obsession about all things medieval
- find death aspects to be extremely interesting
- consider interest in norse culture and mythology to be completely natural
- have music as the priority in his life
- hang out in woods, because it's the best place to be
- keep bashing all sorts of organised religions
- belong to the "nerd" group
- stay out of the "cool kids" group and find that perfectly okay

I'm saying metalheads dress in certain ways, because those fit their sense of aesthetics. They... No, we don't listen to mainstream music and don't have mainstream interests, so why should we have the same sense of aesthetics as the other people?

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 19:11

you posted a similar comment yesterday and it wasn't funny.

Well, look who's talking. : Afterall, you really are the king of satire.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 19:36

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 18:33

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 18:33

define casual in terms of a personality trait. are you saying that metal fans dress in a certain way to be rebellious?

Casual. Someone who doesn't
- have an obsession about all things medieval
- find death aspects to be extremely interesting
- consider interest in norse culture and mythology to be completely natural
- have music as the priority in his life
- hang out in woods, because it's the best place to be
- keep bashing all sorts of organised religions
- belong to the "nerd" group
- stay out of the "cool kids" group and find that perfectly okay

Wow dude...........You've desribed me perfectly! (Well, pretty close in any case)

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 19:36

So you wear clothes that cannot be bought in any shops? Because whatever can be bought in those is part of fashion. Even something as simple as some plain blue T-shirt. I mean, 100 years ago people wouldn't wear stuff like that. People wear them today because today it's fashionable to wear a T-shirt. And what? Are you implying that it's impossible for me to actually like the 'metal' clothing?

worst attempt to twist someones words to win an argument ive ever seen. i stated that i don't follow any particular fashion, which is to say that when i buy clothes i don't think about whether something will be considered cool by my peers, i think "do i think this looks good" and there isn't any specific fashion i follow.

or possibly i meant that i only wear clothes that cannot be bought in shops because that would be mainstream and fashionable. :

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 19:36

[..stuff..]
Does that make me a poser? Conformist? Deliberate fashion-follower?

not necceassarily. though i find it a little hard to believe that the vast majority of people who like metal just happen to believe that whats trendy within that scene is what looks best on them and what suits their personality.

also, i suppose it pisses me off a bit that the majority of metalheads dress the same and the majority of hardcore kids have their own scene-fashions, but metal kids seem to think that they're being original and unique by wearing whats cool in their scene while saying hardcore kids are a bunch of conformist trendy sheep.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 19:36

we don't listen to mainstream music and don't have mainstream interests, so why should we have the same sense of aesthetics as the other people?

the fact that metal fans don't have mainstream music interests shouldn't really affect other parts of their life.

for example, though a lot of people on this forum talk about the underground metal scene and complain about mainstream music, the movies that are listed as their favourites in their profiles often tend to be generic, unoriginal action films. if many people have an interest in underground and artistic music, but don't have a similar attitude towards films then why would they necceassarily have the same sense of aesthetics for their style of clothing?

on a side-note, have you recently changed your screen-name? i ask because you have over 1000 posts here but i don't recognise your screen-name.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 19:46

Well, look who's talking. : Afterall, you really are the king of satire.

funny, i don't remember posting the same unamusing comment twice in a thread, where there is sensible discussion, just for the sake of making my presence known. i admit that i do frequently make (un)amusing comments, but only if they're relevant and productive to the discussion or if that thread in question deserved to be locked.

Well, looks like that you use word metalhead in another way than I do.
I don't think that a person needs to listen only to metal, dress in the stile of music, or even have a big knowledge about it to be a metalhead.
I use word metalhead when I say hi to someone that listen to metal and things like that... I know people that dress in metal way and metal means a lot to them, but they don't have big knowledge or they know a lot about this kind of music but they don't dress in metal style. Why making differences? after all, we all listen to metal and I think that this is the only important thing. Word metalhead is just a word for me nothing else. I think that people take it too seriously...
But, this is only my opinion

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 21:34

worst attempt to twist someones words to win an argument ive ever seen. i stated that i don't follow any particular fashion, which is to say that when i buy clothes i don't think about whether something will be considered cool by my peers, i think "do i think this looks good" and there isn't any specific fashion i follow.

You completely missed my intentions. Metal clothing is trendy, but so is yours. And if you say that you don't buy those clothes to appear cool to others, then why do you assume all the metalheads do? And yes, you follow certain fashion, no matter whether you realise it or not. Most people do it subconsciously, since following fashion is all about aesthetics, which are taught to them by the society.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 21:34

not necceassarily. though i find it a little hard to believe that the vast majority of people who like metal just happen to believe that whats trendy within that scene is what looks best on them and what suits their personality.

Well if it's trendy within the metal scene, it must mean many metalheads like it. I mean if majority of metalheads didn't think it suits them best, they wouldn't wear those clothes in the first place and as such it would never become trendy. The trend had to start from something.
I find it hard to believe that so many metalheads would wear those clothes if they don't like them.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 21:34

also, i suppose it pisses me off a bit that the majority of metalheads dress the same and the majority of hardcore kids have their own scene-fashions, but metal kids seem to think that they're being original and unique by wearing whats cool in their scene while saying hardcore kids are a bunch of conformist trendy sheep.

Fair enough. I don't like such behavior myself.
But then guess what I think of people who say I'm a poser because of what clothes I wear, and yet dress in clothes promoted by the mainstream fashion themselves. That does happen from time to time. I like the clothes I'm wearing and feel great when I do. I don't intend to change it, no matter how many other people wear the same stuff.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 21:34

the fact that metal fans don't have mainstream music interests shouldn't really affect other parts of their life.

for example, though a lot of people on this forum talk about the underground metal scene and complain about mainstream music, the movies that are listed as their favourites in their profiles often tend to be generic, unoriginal action films. if many people have an interest in underground and artistic music, but don't have a similar attitude towards films then why would they necceassarily have the same sense of aesthetics for their style of clothing?

Yes, I actually found this to be completely contradictory (at least for those who consider their tastes non-mainstream) myself. Though, let me give an example of myself here.
I actually watched and enjoyed those mainstream movies you're talking about. But then I came across "The Quills", "Beowulf and Grendel", "Pink Floyd The Wall" and so on and it really changed my approach for the mainstream movies. I simply didn't know there is better stuff out there. I don't know if that's how it goes for other people too, I'm just talking from my own experience.
But in any case, I mean more like metal is dark and heavy music. So metalheads might be attracted to bizzare, commonly rejected aspects. They could be also attracted to dark and 'tough' clothing. It's not as much about metalheads enjoying all stuff underground (they certainly don't, metal isn't that underground in the first place), but about those unusual dark things that can be connected with metal music.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 21:34

on a side-note, have you recently changed your screen-name? i ask because you have over 1000 posts here but i don't recognise your screen-name.

Yeah, been Draklar before.

To add my input, no matter how irrelevant it might be in the face of this arguing, I dress in pretty casual clothing, I usually wear band t-shirts, and I have long hair. I listen to metal. I go to concerts. I consider myself a metalhead. A friend I have has short hair, dresses normally, goes to concerts and listens to metal. I consider him a metalhead too. It's your own personal choice, at the end of the day, we all listen to varying degrees of the same type of music, which is becoming increasingly rare, and we perhaps try to conform with a 'look' (long hair, beard/no beard, band tshirts, black clothing, leather jackets, denim jackets, leather pants, normal jeans, what have you) so we can easily recognise ourselves from the masses, it creates an instant bond on eye-contact without the usual "so what do you listen to?" and can usually help when meeting new people. We set aside ourselves due to our nonconformist nature, but as humans, we yearn for social contact among those we can consider our peers (due to the elitist nature of metal, does not mean we don't like talking to other people ofc) and thus we dress in varying degrees similar to create an instant contact.

100% i agree with the post above

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 22:14

You completely missed my intentions. Metal clothing is trendy, but so is yours. And if you say that you don't buy those clothes to appear cool to others, then why do you assume all the metalheads do? And yes, you follow certain fashion, no matter whether you realise it or not. Most people do it subconsciously, since following fashion is all about aesthetics, which are taught to them by the society.

well i think its a safe assumption that metalheads do because they all dress the same. look at a queue of people waiting to go into a metal gig. all black t-shirts, all denim jeans. the fact that such a high percentage of people are dressed exactly the same suggests that its not a matter of simply people who like dark music being attracted to dark clothing

if i look in my wardrobe, my clothes may be fashionable, but they cover a variety of trends which suggests that i don't buy clothes with the "i need to buy clothes that will help me to fit in with my peers" mindset (whether it be conscious or sub-conscious). also, i generally dress quite differently to the people i socialise with.

but, for the record, im don't try to look different from the people i socialise with, just that i don't necessarily try to dress the same.

Written by Author on 15.10.2006 at 22:14

Well if it's trendy within the metal scene, it must mean many metalheads like it. I mean if majority of metalheads didn't think it suits them best, they wouldn't wear those clothes in the first place and as such it would never become trendy. The trend had to start from something.
I find it hard to believe that so many metalheads would wear those clothes if they don't like them.

its about fitting in rather than looking good. if their peers dress in a certain way then many people feel as though they can't dress differently and will decide that it just so happens that whats trendy is what looks best on them. most people don't have enough confidence to dress differently from their peers.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 23:17

well i think its a safe assumption that metalheads do because they all dress the same. look at a queue of people waiting to go into a metal gig. all black t-shirts, all denim jeans. the fact that such a high percentage of people are dressed exactly the same suggests that its not a matter of simply people who like dark music being attracted to dark clothing

I don't see how high percentage alone suggests conclusion like that. You didn't provide any support for that. I mean, if people who like dark music are attracted to dark clothing, then the percentage will be high just as well.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 23:17

if i look in my wardrobe, my clothes may be fashionable, but they cover a variety of trends which suggests that i don't buy clothes with the "i need to buy clothes that will help me to fit in with my peers" mindset (whether it be conscious or sub-conscious). also, i generally dress quite differently to the people i socialise with.

Well, one thing I'd like to point out is that most of my friends aren't even listening to metal. Actually very, very few do. So it's not like by dressing metal I fit in with my peers. Quite the contrary.
It may be completely different on gigs, but look at the everyday life. Very few people we see are interested in metal. If anything, dressing metal makes you didfferent from most of your peers, rather than making you fit in.

Written by -tom- on 15.10.2006 at 23:17

its about fitting in rather than looking good. if their peers dress in a certain way then many people feel as though they can't dress differently and will decide that it just so happens that whats trendy is what looks best on them. most people don't have enough confidence to dress differently from their peers.

Is there any way you can support this?
I mean, is it from your experience, someone said so, or you have certain path of reasoning that led you to this conclusion?
And like I said, metal community isn't exactly a large one. If you dress metal, you do look different from your peers.

And due to how small it is, we seek each other out in how we dress. Don't you love the feeling when you're walking in a big city or town, walk past a group or another person you can easily identify as a metalhead, or wearing the same band tshirt as you (let's say something like Månegarm and not Iron Maiden) and you just give the other person a nod in acknowledgement and they nod back...isn't that just fucking awesome?

Exactly. Although if I'd see someone around here wearing Manegarm T-shirt, I wouldn't just nod, but go all crazy asking where that person got it from... I so want that beer T-shirt

http://www.manegarm.com/shop/x.php?val=visainfo&kategori=&produkt=49&uk=&f=1

Though I'm not sure if that's Sweden only :x

Written by Author on 16.10.2006 at 00:34

And due to how small it is, we seek each other out in how we dress. Don't you love the feeling when you're walking in a big city or town, walk past a group or another person you can easily identify as a metalhead, or wearing the same band tshirt as you (let's say something like Månegarm and not Iron Maiden) and you just give the other person a nod in acknowledgement and they nod back...isn't that just fucking awesome?

No, why would it be? Why would I want to identify myself with total strangers, people I've never met before, people I probably don't have anything in common with except the mutual taste in music?

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 16.10.2006 at 11:35

No, why would it be? Why would I want to identify myself with total strangers, people I've never met before, people I probably don't have anything in common with except the mutual taste in music?

Think why you post on these forums and you'll have the answer.

@Vidrageon.

Yeah, I know the feeling. It makes me feel that we have something in common. Like, that we both know a very big secret, the secret of metal.

Written by Author on 16.10.2006 at 11:38

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 16.10.2006 at 11:35

No, why would it be? Why would I want to identify myself with total strangers, people I've never met before, people I probably don't have anything in common with except the mutual taste in music?

Think why you post on these forums and you'll have the answer.

I post on these forums because of the mutual taste in music. I also talk and share music with a normal circle of friends whom I met through work and studies, the common ground is more than just music with all those people. Having only music in common with people is far too shallow IMO and will never attribute to a lasting friendship. Internet is that shallow. This might seem crude and blunt, but I think I wouldn't even give 99.9% of the people on Metal Storm a minute of my time when I met them in real life.

Okay, so your first sentence answers your question.

Anyway, I think you're giving too critical approach to the metalheads. I mean, you cannot know whether the guy wearing T-shirt of a band you like doesn't have same interests as you do. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But that you enjoy the same music does show that you have something in common. So why not get to know him better? If you find him to be completely different than you, oh well, most likely it will lead nowhere. But otherwise you might develop a friendship with such cool benefits as having more friends to go to gigs with and having occassional conversation about music you like with someone you like, as opposed to having those with forum users 99.9% of whom you wouldn't bother to talk with in real life.

I've noticed that people who share similar tastes in music as me usually share similar thoughts and beliefs as me. Take viking metal for example, that is hard to argue a solely musical taste - you need a certain passion for viking metal and that may give a more incentive for talking. I just disagree in saying that our musical tastes, in relation to metal, is shallow.

Otherwise, yes, I agree with everything skald said in the post above.