It's not about following a pattern or not (actually, this 'non repeating sections' thing has been doing in rock music since late 60s: Moody Blues, Procol Harum, etc). The thing is that I feel that some parts on a certain song or another don't fit at all. It's like: 'hey, buddies, we've got 20 different rythms, let's make a song! No matter what!" (obviously, i'm exagerating, but this is somehow my impression). Some people like it and i respect it, of course.
But that's only my opinion

Written by Dave FC on 19.05.2016 at 15:00

Vocals are very similar to Schuldiner's on TSOP.

About the bad songwriting i agree. They're not that good on it. Specially on that second song. It's like 20 different riffs superglued one after another. There is no flow on the song and obviously this is NOT progressive at all. Don't get me wrong: I like those parts 'like the moon is silent' and 'iso subject 5' but the song itself is just a collection of riffs and rhythms. Nothing more.
There are songs that i like more or less but my 'high rating' goes mainly for the musicianship... They are so good!

While I'm very glad you appreciate the musicianship, it's a bummer that you feel this way, heh. I would urge you to listen a couple more times, as proggy stuff tends to take plenty of listens to capture everything, including flow. But, I also don't want to be that guy haha, sorry!

Personally, I feel our song writing flow is our strongest attribute. We don't just sit there like "hey this riff sounds cool, let's just put it after that one part!" We take an incredible amount of time with structure and focus on how riffs sound going into each other. What do you consider songs that have good flow, so I know where you're coming from, if you don't mind me asking?

Written by Dave FC on 19.05.2016 at 15:00

About the bad songwriting i agree. They're not that good on it. Specially on that second song. It's like 20 different riffs superglued one after another. There is no flow on the song and obviously this is NOT progressive at all. Don't get me wrong: I like those parts 'like the moon is silent' and 'iso subject 5' but the song itself is just a collection of riffs and rhythms. Nothing more.

Can't say that song has no flow, it just lacks dynamics. I'm at LCD and all these "just riff after riff" comments seem exaggerated. The riff halfway to this song is badass, Erik at least probably knows what I'm talking about

Written by Risto on 19.05.2016 at 20:50

Written by Dave FC on 19.05.2016 at 15:00

About the bad songwriting i agree. They're not that good on it. Specially on that second song. It's like 20 different riffs superglued one after another. There is no flow on the song and obviously this is NOT progressive at all. Don't get me wrong: I like those parts 'like the moon is silent' and 'iso subject 5' but the song itself is just a collection of riffs and rhythms. Nothing more.

Can't say that song has no flow, it just lacks dynamics. I'm at LCD and all these "just riff after riff" comments seem exaggerated. The riff halfway to this song is badass, Erik at least probably knows what I'm talking about

You guys are talking about Cygnus Terminal right? And no dynamics...? Whatchoo talkin bout willis! It exemplifies the word dynamic haha. There are lots of rises and falls, with plenty of constantly changing progressions. And you can't tell me it's not an energetic song, the whole middle section is movin and groovin! I'm not saying we're dynamic all the time, but this particular song certainly is. If we were talking about Pteropticon, that would make a lot more sense hahaha.

Written by erikwithafro81 on 19.05.2016 at 19:47

Personally, I feel our song writing flow is our strongest attribute. We don't just sit there like "hey this riff sounds cool, let's just put it after that one part!"

Erik, thank you for taking the time to defend your band. I absolutely agree with you that the songwriting is the strongest attribute to Vektor. I've heard countless technical death metal bands get lost in uninteresting repetitious riffs with no development, and it's obvious you guys focus on the flow between riffs and progression. Even the issues with Pteropticon that people have mentioned are kinda silly, to be honest. (This is coming from someone who was moderately impressed with BF and OI but astonished by Terminal Redux, so I'm not a fanboy really).

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.05.2016 at 21:57

Written by c4rc4sss on 18.05.2016 at 21:51

SOunds a lot like early Death

This sounds nothing like the first three Death albums at all. AT most a bit like The Sound Of Perserverence but not even that much like that.

c4rc4sss, yes !
This album gave me a rendezvous, I had been cracking my head for weeks for not being able to figure out where did I heard something similar before...Death ! Death ! Death ! Not their early, but their later progressive approach, technically a mixture of Human, ITP, Symbolic, and also a lot of overdone aggression from TSOP.
I have to say Vektor's releases have never been original since day one.

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 05:49

Written by erikwithafro81 on 19.05.2016 at 19:47

Personally, I feel our song writing flow is our strongest attribute. We don't just sit there like "hey this riff sounds cool, let's just put it after that one part!"

Erik, thank you for taking the time to defend your band. I absolutely agree with you that the songwriting is the strongest attribute to Vektor. I've heard countless technical death metal bands get lost in uninteresting repetitious riffs with no development, and it's obvious you guys focus on the flow between riffs and progression. Even the issues with Pteropticon that people have mentioned are kinda silly, to be honest. (This is coming from someone who was moderately impressed with BF and OI but astonished by Terminal Redux, so I'm not a fanboy really).

erikwithafro81 ? Who is this new member ?
You always used the words "We" and "Our"...I am very sure you are part of the promotion team of this album. You are here casting high vote in order to influence the members.

If you are Erik Nelson, then this is not a place for you as it's not cool to "explain" too much for yourself...all I can say is, you should be joining new label for new inspiration, staying in your current old-fart-label could kill your band eventually. Take a look at Akercocke, Bolt Thrower, Napalm Death, Decapitated, even label Century Media...you could be the next...

Best songs on the album? I''m thinking to check this one out, given the awesome rating.

Pretty cool and refreshing album, and I don't see the problem with Cygnus Terminal tbh, I think it's a fine song! Sometimes I hear some Horrendous and some Xantochroid here and there

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 20.05.2016 at 06:46

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 05:49

Written by erikwithafro81 on 19.05.2016 at 19:47

Personally, I feel our song writing flow is our strongest attribute. We don't just sit there like "hey this riff sounds cool, let's just put it after that one part!"

Erik, thank you for taking the time to defend your band. I absolutely agree with you that the songwriting is the strongest attribute to Vektor. I've heard countless technical death metal bands get lost in uninteresting repetitious riffs with no development, and it's obvious you guys focus on the flow between riffs and progression. Even the issues with Pteropticon that people have mentioned are kinda silly, to be honest. (This is coming from someone who was moderately impressed with BF and OI but astonished by Terminal Redux, so I'm not a fanboy really).

erikwithafro81 ? Who is this new member ?
You always used the words "We" and "Our"...I am very sure you are part of the promotion team of this album. You are here casting high vote in order to influence the members.

If you are Erik Nelson, then this is not a place for you as it's not cool to "explain" too much for yourself...all I can say is, you should be joining new label for new inspiration, staying in your current old-fart-label could kill your band eventually. Take a look at Akercocke, Bolt Thrower, Napalm Death, Decapitated, even label Century Media...you could be the next...

This is the guitar player, Erik Nelson, and I want to first thank you for taking the time to listen to the album. I rated my own album highly because I'm incredibly proud of the music I have made and the work I put into it. Is that so wrong? And are you saying I'm not *allowed* here just because I'm in the band? I'm a regular person, regardless of what I do professionally. Anyway! We're actually done with Earache after this album, so our fate shouldn't be like those bands you mentioned.

Erik, no one says you aren't allowed to be on MS. But you are basically defending yourself and the band when someone says something negative. People point out that Cygnus Terminal is undynamic and doesn't care for that song, and you laugh at them telling them they're wrong. Everyone is entitled their opinion, and you should embrace criticism as much as praises. Else, I want to congratulate you with a very fresh sounding and well executed album, I am listening to it currently and can't wait to listen even more to it

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 19:11

People point out that Cygnus Terminal is undynamic and doesn't care for that song, and you laugh at them telling them they're wrong. Everyone is entitled their opinion, and you should embrace criticism as much as praises.

People are indeed entitled to their own opinions, but I think Erik is just trying to see why people believe that song to be undynamic (even if his tone is a tad defensive). I'm equally surprised people think that song isn't dynamic, and criticism is only helpful when it is fully substantiated and understood.

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 19:43

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 19:11

People point out that Cygnus Terminal is undynamic and doesn't care for that song, and you laugh at them telling them they're wrong. Everyone is entitled their opinion, and you should embrace criticism as much as praises.

People are indeed entitled to their own opinions, but I think Erik is just trying to see why people believe that song to be undynamic (even if his tone is a tad defensive). I'm equally surprised people think that song isn't dynamic, and criticism is only helpful when it is fully substantiated and understood.

Then he should ask why people are thinking that way instead of mocking then. Also I think it's easier for someone outside to judge how a song is than for someone who wrote it, because when you write it, you know exactly how you were thinking in the process and can be "blinded" by that. Note I am not bashing Erik, just explaining why his response doesn't look right. And I do agree with you regarding Cygnus Terminal, I don't find it in undynamic either

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 19:51

Then he should ask why people are thinking that way instead of mocking then.

I don't even think Erik was mocking, though. Risto mentioned that Erik would know what we has talking about, and Erik didn't know what he was talking about (hence the comment "Whatchoo talking bout Willis"). His comments are pretty tame and he even acknowledges that Vektor isn't dynamic all of the time.

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 19:51

Also I think it's easier for someone outside to judge how a song is than for someone who wrote it, because when you write it, you know exactly how you were thinking in the process and can be "blinded" by that. Note I am not bashing Erik, just explaining why his response doesn't look right. And I do agree with you regarding Cygnus Terminal, I don't find it in undynamic either

Agreed, but it's hard to be "blinded" from criticisms that don't make any sense to begin with. You even agree that the criticism doesn't make sense to you. Erik's responses are fine and look right to me- he's perfectly entitled to be proud of his work and defensive, especially when people are quick to make judgments that are absolutely nonsensical.

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 20:05

Risto mentioned that Erik would know what we has talking about, and Erik didn't know what he was talking about (hence the comment "Whatchoo talking bout Willis").

I wasn't even referring to Cygnus Terminal there.

Written by Risto on 20.05.2016 at 20:11

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 20:05

Risto mentioned that Erik would know what we has talking about, and Erik didn't know what he was talking about (hence the comment "Whatchoo talking bout Willis").

I wasn't even referring to Cygnus Terminal there.

Agreed. It's obvious, however, that line invited further comments. Now that you're here, what makes you think Cygnus Terminal lacks dynamics?

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 20:18

Now that you're here, what makes you think Cygnus Terminal lacks dynamics?

That remark was a bit too hasty, I admit I guess it just doesn't justify its length in other ways, but it still doesn't suffer from a pile of riffs syndrome as some users claimed.

God Buster's statement got under my skin. Made it seem like I shouldn't be here just because I play in the band.

I try not to let this shit bother me, it's just hard when we put years of effort into creating this album. And I absolutely appreciate criticism, I'm not trying to squash opinions. I'm just gonna back off, hopefully more new listener enjoy what we're doing. Thank you so much to everyone who is currently listening and appreciating our tunes.

Written by Diverge on 20.05.2016 at 20:05

You even agree that the criticism doesn't make sense to you.

Well, I so not think the critic is "nonsense". People stated they felt it was undynamic and had the feeling that the song consisted a bunch of riffs which they felt didn't stick together that well. That's not nonsense, it's an opinion. People are also stating that Ne Obliviscaris and Between The Buried And Me is too messy and doesn't make any sense as well. I don't agree in those statements, but it's not nonsense just because I don't feel that way.

Written by erikwithafro81 on 20.05.2016 at 21:46

God Buster's statement got under my skin. Made it seem like I shouldn't be here just because I play in the band.

I try not to let this shit bother me, it's just hard when we put years of effort into creating this album. And I absolutely appreciate criticism, I'm not trying to squash opinions. I'm just gonna back off, hopefully more new listener enjoy what we're doing. Thank you so much to everyone who is currently listening and appreciating our tunes.

Fair enough, thank you for making and interesting record to listen to mate

Written by erikwithafro81 on 20.05.2016 at 21:46

God Buster's statement got under my skin. Made it seem like I shouldn't be here just because I play in the band.

I try not to let this shit bother me, it's just hard when we put years of effort into creating this album. And I absolutely appreciate criticism, I'm not trying to squash opinions. I'm just gonna back off, hopefully more new listener enjoy what we're doing. Thank you so much to everyone who is currently listening and appreciating our tunes.

even if someone likes or not a band, having a band member around to share thoughts, opinions and learn some more info about things around the band is a wondrefull thing. This is not a ghetto. It is a forum where everyone can express himself.. No one can "forbid"/discourage you from being here.. You'll always be welcome at least for some of us!

This new album IMO is by far better than Outer Isolation.. I'd just like a few shorter songs like Pillars of Sand, 2-3 powerfull songs like BF had (Black Future, Oblivion, Hunger for Violence)..

God Buster is obviously a troll, so don't even bother responding

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 21:57

Well, I so not think the critic is "nonsense". People stated they felt it was undynamic and had the feeling that the song consisted a bunch of riffs which they felt didn't stick together that well. That's not nonsense, it's an opinion.

Only one person said it wasn't dynamic and he since renounced those hasty words (big up to Risto for that). That opinion wasn't substantiated and was utter nonsense in light of the actual progressions intrinsic to that song. Other users, not Risto, said that Vektor songs were just an aggregation of riffs. I can actually see why people would think it's just a bunch of riffs on top of each other without cohesion, and so that stated opinion is perfectly valid (even if I don't agree with it). People with different songwriting preferences are going to prefer different styles and any music filled with lots of riffs have the potential to be perceived this way. You're conflating the opinions of at least two different sets of users to try and prove your point. Thankfully in all domains of knowledge (including heavy metal) there are opinions that we can say don't matter, and because there was no evidence for the earlier assertion Risto's opinion at the time didn't matter.

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 21:57

People are also stating that Ne Obliviscaris and Between The Buried And Me is too messy and doesn't make any sense as well. I don't agree in those statements, but it's not nonsense just because I don't feel that way.

I think most competent people within the metal community could see why those opinions are valid, given the complexity of the musical arrangements and the varying songwriting preferences across the globe. You might disagree with them, as do I, but that's obviously not a nonsensical opinion.

Written by Diverge on 21.05.2016 at 00:56

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 21:57

Well, I so not think the critic is "nonsense". People stated they felt it was undynamic and had the feeling that the song consisted a bunch of riffs which they felt didn't stick together that well. That's not nonsense, it's an opinion.

Only one person said it wasn't dynamic and he since renounced those hasty words (big up to Risto for that). That opinion wasn't substantiated and was utter nonsense in light of the actual progressions intrinsic to that song. Other users, not Risto, said that Vektor songs were just an aggregation of riffs. I can actually see why people would think it's just a bunch of riffs on top of each other without cohesion, and so that stated opinion is perfectly valid (even if I don't agree with it). People with different songwriting preferences are going to prefer different styles and any music filled with lots of riffs have the potential to be perceived this way. You're conflating the opinions of at least two different sets of users to try and prove your point. Thankfully in all domains of knowledge (including heavy metal) there are opinions that we can say don't matter, and because there was no evidence for the earlier assertion Risto's opinion at the time didn't matter.

Written by Fallen Ghost on 20.05.2016 at 21:57

People are also stating that Ne Obliviscaris and Between The Buried And Me is too messy and doesn't make any sense as well. I don't agree in those statements, but it's not nonsense just because I don't feel that way.

I think most competent people within the metal community could see why those opinions are valid, given the complexity of the musical arrangements and the varying songwriting preferences across the globe. You might disagree with them, as do I, but that's obviously not a nonsensical opinion.

Cheers mate, let's just lay back and appreciate the record for what it is. I think we do understand each other now, thanks for a good and constructive discussion

After so many "ohs and ahs" about this band I decided to try them. First look on the songs lenght - many of them are over 7 minutes. Good sign! But then...yea, there is some kind of progression in it, but I didn't found that as pleasure.

This is my first comment on this site, and I'm giving that honor to Vektor. These guys are bringing oldschool technical thrash / death metal back with a vengeance, remastered and reinvented. It's refreshing to hear a band that goes for originality in a way that it's reflected in its technicality. I must admit, I do hear a little Death, Kreator, Sadus, Pestilence, etc...but there's something about it that makes it new and transcendent. I hear the fucking hard work these guys put into it. The songs aren't as memorable as let's say Kreator's Pleasure to Kill, but there's something about the composition that makes the album a journey. This is not a sing-along album, don't get me wrong, I like the vocals but I'm sure you guys know what I mean. Just headbang, appreciate and enjoy.

Quote:

Written by erikwithafro81 on 19.05.2016 at 19:47

...Anyway! We're actually done with Earache after this album...

Congratulations !!! X 10
Remember what did Dig say ? In music, 80% is business and only 20% is music. He is indeed a big moron, one of the most stupid music labels.

First of all, if I offended you I sincerely apologize. It must be hard to read not so good comments after all your hard work.
Now i see that it all 'second song' comments became absolutely silly. My fault. But i keep saying that I feel some incosistency in that song. That's it. Now i'm feeling like I'm listening to two different songs. Hey, it could be that I really don't understand what you are offering! And from now I stop talking about that song. Period.

Now I must say that I don't think Erik is mocking people. He just said to listen to their album more times. He has been very kind, if you ask me. And as Diverge said I'm very glad that he is among us, chating and defending his band and also I find normal his ratings. WTF, he's proud of his work!---> 10 Why not?

Written by erikwithafro81 on 19.05.2016 at 19:47

What do you consider songs that have good flow, so I know where you're coming from, if you don't mind me asking?

On a previous post I said this:

Written by Dave FC on 16.05.2016 at 22:04

Tracks 1, 3, 8 & 10 are very, very good.

Charging the void, LCD and Recharging the void have that good 'flow' Im talking about. Also Collapse could be a perfect example of that flow. But, dude, this is so subjective... So it's music.
And to clear it up to everyone. I do like Vektor. I rated BF 8; OI 9 and this last one 8. I've listened to OI like a thousand times: it drives me crazy

Erik, if you (the band) come around my hometown I'm going to watch your show, guys. That's for sure.

PS: sorry for long post

Written by erikwithafro81 on 20.05.2016 at 21:46

God Buster's statement got under my skin. Made it seem like I shouldn't be here just because I play in the band.

I try not to let this shit bother me, it's just hard when we put years of effort into creating this album. And I absolutely appreciate criticism, I'm not trying to squash opinions. I'm just gonna back off, hopefully more new listener enjoy what we're doing. Thank you so much to everyone who is currently listening and appreciating our tunes.

Having someone from the band commenting on here has made the discussion a million times more interesting. Thank you for contributing and thank you for your music. It's a pretty amazing album and I'm pretty sure I haven't invested enough time to really fully get it yet, so perhaps my rating will increase. The last two tracks, in particular, are pretty epic.

Spectacular record, absolutely spectacular.