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| Rating: 4 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 17.06.2014 at 06:38
He has a great personality.
Without doubt: "Bent double with psychosis, as vomit and blood spew forth"
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Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 06:43
Without doubt: "Bent double with psychosis, as vomit and blood spew forth"
That's just a metaphor for childbirth. Don't read too much into it, he's a real sweet guy. This album is a good example of just how gentle a lover he can be. It's in those stale amateurish melodies.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 17.06.2014 at 06:49
That's just a metaphor for childbirth. Don't read too much into it, he's a real sweet guy. This album is a good example of just how gentle a lover he can be. It's in those stale amateurish melodies.
At least he's mastered the art of dysphemisms - we can forgive his brutish attempts at melody 
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| Rating: 9 |
Viewing all those videos and then such comments regarding Non-Being or the tastes and ear of other persons.... We should probably leave it. Oh wait, that means I have no clue about melody. It's simple as that, right? How delightfully arrogant.
We should just agree to disagree and leave it at peace for the sake of all of us.
Kthxbi
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| Rating: 8 |
 my God, what a bunch of painfully predicable melodies. Pretty sure I have diabetes from being exposed to such immense amount of saccharine.
Quote:
Anyone with a musical ear can tell you the same.
And anyone with taste or song writing ability would probably tell you otherwise, people I'd much rather put my trust in than simply someone who can play an instrument well but not be able to do an original or interesting thing with it. A totally different skillset which a lot of people lack, even "musical" people. A skillset about implicit understanding and interpretation, not about raw, technical comprehension of musical theory, and ability to regurgitate what guitar technique is being played at what point, which has absolutely nothing to do with grasping good songwriting or the writing of good melody in the context of an actual song. About seeing the woods for the trees.
Rod's right though, this thread has already been tarnished enough for one lifetime
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 11:14
And anyone with taste or song writing ability would probably tell you otherwise, people I'd much rather put my trust in than simply someone who can play an instrument well but not be able to do an original or interesting thing with it. A totally different skillset which a lot of people lack, even "musical" people. A skillset about implicit understanding and interpretation, not about raw, technical comprehension of musical theory, and ability to regurgitate what guitar technique is being played at what point, which has absolutely nothing to do with grasping good songwriting or the writing of good melody in the context of an actual song. About seeing the woods for the trees.
Rod's right though, this thread has already been tarnished enough for one lifetime
That raw, technical comprehension of musical theory is exactly what is being applied in the songwriting of this very album. Like I said, it sounds as if the lead guitarist is simply wanking up and down in scales around the key of the music - there's no hint of melodic creativity whatsoever. If any of you honestly believe that there is absolutely no superiority regarding the melodies of those bands I linked compared to those written by the cluster of trite, copycat bands out there, then I'm essentially talking to a wall 
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 12:57
That raw, technical comprehension of musical theory is exactly what is being applied in the songwriting of this very album. Like I said, it sounds as if the lead guitarist is simply wanking up and down in scales around the key of the music - there's no hint of melodic creativity whatsoever. If any of you honestly believe that there is absolutely no superiority regarding the melodies of those bands I linked compared to those written by the cluster of trite, copycat bands out there, then I'm essentially talking to a wall
As I say: context. You seem to to lack an understanding of it.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 12:58
As I say: context. You seem to to lack an understanding of it.
That's precisely what makes so many melodies appealing: context. The finger-flopping melodies in this album even detract from the music as a result of their unimaginative and amateur nature.
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 mz - 17.06.2014 at 13:40
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| Rating: 7 |
WTF.
If you think that people who don't like the generic as fuck melodeath of insomnium and amon amarth (which I actually enjoy) and the crab music of the wintersun have no ears, I have to inform you that not only you don't have any clue about the metal music, but also you are an arroogant asshole (ok this has been proven several times before, nothing new).
Seriously, I'm still in shock that someone calls esoteric "generic" while he adores those before mentioned band.
You should be able to understand that even some of melodeath fans agree that the genre is stagnant and full of copycat bands beating the same dead horse like 129767869861240 other bands.
Also, here is the chalange: if esoteric are generic, find a couple of bands playing a similar sort of funeral doom. I've been looking for such thing for long and all I have got are AC and faal (which are clearly influenced by esoteric and follow it)
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by mz on 17.06.2014 at 13:40
the crab music of the wintersun
That sounds like an awesome band right there.
Also: don't waste your time with LeKiwi, seriously. He doesn't get it because he can't see past instruments. It's as simple as that.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by mz on 17.06.2014 at 13:40
WTF.
If you think that people who don't like the generic as fuck melodeath of insomnium and amon amarth (which I actually enjoy) and the crab music of the wintersun have no ears, I have to inform you that not only you don't have any clue about the metal music, but also you are an arroogant asshole (ok this has been proven several times before, nothing new).
Seriously, I'm still in shock that someone calls esoteric "generic" while he adores those before mentioned band.
You should be able to understand that even some of melodeath fans agree that the genre is stagnant and full of copycat bands beating the same dead horse like 129767869861240 other bands.
Also, here is the chalange: if esoteric are generic, find a couple of bands playing a similar sort of funeral doom. I've been looking for such thing for long and all I have got are AC and faal (which are clearly influenced by esoteric and follow it)
No there's nothing generic about Esoteric. I'm clearly targeting on the melodic aspect of their music, nothing more. Melody plays an essential role in my enjoyment of a song.
Of course, I've blatantly admitted that MDM is a stagnant genre - just have a read of my previous comments where I compared hackneyed melodies to innovative ones. There's a reason those bands I mentioned are placed above other bands in the genre and if that isn't acknowledged by someone then, yes, they "have no ears."
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 13:42
Also: don't waste your time with LeKiwi, seriously. He doesn't get it because he can't see past instruments. It's as simple as that.
I wouldn't have a reason to deconstruct this band into a multitude of aspects, including melody, if those aspects were appealing as a whole.
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 13:48
I wouldn't have a reason to deconstruct this band into a multitude of aspects, including melody, if those aspects were appealing as a whole.
Precisely: you feel the need to deconstruct bands by focussing on unnecessary details and techniques. This is what I meant by the term context. You don't know how to appreciate a band for its whole.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 13:51
Precisely: you feel the need to deconstruct bands by focussing on unnecessary details and techniques. This is what I meant by the term context. You don't know how to appreciate a band for its whole.
That's precisely what I was attempting to do when I listened to this album - then those aforementioned melodies came crashing in and ruined the vibe. Everything is about context, I'm well aware of that.
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 13:53
That's precisely what I was attempting to do when I listened to this album - then those aforementioned melodies came crashing in and ruined the vibe. Everything is about context, I'm well aware of that.
And to me that's why Amon Amarth and its ilk is subpar, because they focus on nothing more than overbearing and sickly effusive melody and predictable progressions with virtually nothing else going for it. Esoteric may be considered "amateur" in terms of how it employs melody from a technical point of view, but unlike shallow melodeath and other melody-bearing bands it employs "amateur" melody in much more mature song composition.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 13:56
And to me that's why Amon Amarth and its ilk is subpar, because they focus on nothing more than overbearing and sickly effusive melody and predictable progressions with virtually nothing else going for it. Esoteric may be considered "amateur" in terms of how it employs melody from a technical point of view, but unlike shallow melodeath and other melody-bearing bands it employs "amateur" melody in much more mature song composition.
Yet, somehow there aren't many other bands reaching their level of success...I wonder why   Perhaps it's because writing melodies that appeal the masses is no easy feat?
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 13:58
Yet, somehow there aren't many other bands reaching their level of success...I wonder why Perhaps it's because writing melodies that appeal the masses is no easy feat?
Lol, as has been said a billion times before success is not a measure of quality. You'll always get awful pop bands thrown at you for comments like that, and rightfully so.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 14:02
Lol, as has been said a billion times before success is not a measure of quality. You'll always get awful pop bands thrown at you for comments like that, and rightfully so.
And as I've said earlier, there are myriad other factors which come into play with regards to contemporary music. Additionally, most pop artists don't even write their own music and the writers use an infallible formula to appeal to the masses.
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mz - 17.06.2014 at 14:06
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| Rating: 7 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 13:45
No there's nothing generic about Esoteric.
How about this, then?
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 03:03
The guitarist is simply jerking the scales in the key of the music in such an amateur manner that I reckon any guitarist could write. There's absolutely no flow and in fact is rather generic.
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 13:45
Of course, I've blatantly admitted that MDM is a stagnant genre - just have a read of my previous comments where I compared hackneyed melodies to innovative ones. There's a reason those bands I mentioned are placed above other bands in the genre and if that isn't acknowledged by someone then, yes, they "have no ears."
If that's the case, I prefer to "have no ears" instead of insulting people for their opinion (although it is a fact that those bands you mentioned are generic)
Anyway, good job covering Ponderer's ass. We do need someone to be an icon for "how not to participate in forums".
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 14:04
And as I've said earlier, there are myriad other factors which come into play with regards to contemporary music. Additionally, most pop artists don't even write their own music and the writers use an infallible formula to appeal to the masses.
Of course there are other influences, but none as important as the simplistic melodies used. Take those away and the band would vanish.
An infallible formula is exactly what the bands you posted are doing if you ask me. Safe, easily digestible melody. Nothing more.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 14:06
Of course there are other influences, but none as important as the simplistic melodies used. Take those away and the band would vanish.
An infallible formula is exactly what the bands you posted are doing if you ask me. Safe, easily digestible melody. Nothing more.
Not quite. Publicity and songwriting go hand-in-hand. Without one or the other, in contemporary music, the artist would not reach any level of success.
Perhaps they may be using an infallible formula as well, but it is their unique formula and no other band can recreate it.
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 14:09
Not quite. Publicity and songwriting go hand-in-hand. Without one or the other, in contemporary music, the artist would not reach any level of success.
Perhaps they may be using an infallible formula as well, but it is their unique formula and no other band can recreate it.
But they reach that level of success by conforming to basic, McDonald's-like melody and songwriting. It's pretty basic stuff.
Unique in the sense that no one else has written the exact same songs, but the overall feel, mood and predictable progression of melodies could be found in many other bands most likely. This is why people get so bored of bands like Amon Amarth, because they effectively copy themselves ad infinitum.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 14:12
But they reach that level of success by conforming to basic, McDonald's-like melody and songwriting. It's pretty basic stuff.
Unique in the sense that no one else has written the exact same songs, but the overall feel, mood and predictable progression of melodies could be found in many other bands most likely. This is why people get so bored of bands like Amon Amarth, because they effectively copy themselves ad infinitum.
Combined with publicity - it doesn't work any other way.
No, unique in the sense that I've not heard any artist write melodies in the way AA does. If you can find one, I'd be truly baffled. Yes, there are dozens of artists which use the same keys and related scales, but you must be able to identify the stylistic ways in which they employ these to form a unique melodic style. Indeed, bands like AA, Insomnium, Scar Symmetry, and Wintersun employ their formula over, and over, and over. I'm not denying that.
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by LeKiwi on 17.06.2014 at 14:16
Combined with publicity - it doesn't work any other way.
No, unique in the sense that I've not heard any artist write melodies in the way AA does. If you can find one, I'd be truly baffled. Yes, there are dozens of artists which use the same keys and related scales, but you must be able to identify the stylistic ways in which they employ these to form a unique melodic style. Indeed, bands like AA, Insomnium, Scar Symmetry, and Wintersun employ their formula over, and over, and over. I'm not denying that.
The stylistic ways they use get to get to the same melodies is totally irrelevant in my opinion. Bands may employ different guitar sounds, more technical drum work, the use of keyboards and so, but ultimately they make effectively the same music. It's about the result, not the method. This is why Scar Symmetry are just as plainly generic as Amon Amarth to me. They do things in different ways but the result is practically the same from an artistic perspective. That's what you don't seem to be able to grasp.
This has gone on too long anyway and is wildly off topic.
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by Mr. Doctor on 17.06.2014 at 14:20
Woah, you are seriously comparing the bands in terms of popularity? Extreme metal will never be as popular as the other kinds of metal which are easier to get into. That one is a fact but it has nothing to do with quality... It's simply because the average person doesn't like extreme music because it's difficult to get into.
I'm comparing their popularity relatively. That's the key point. I wouldn't dare compare anything in extreme metal to the likes of ______-core.
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| Rating: 9 |
Guys, just stop. In case there's a thread regarding popularity of bands and on what that popularity is based on: Feel free to go nuts since it will be on-topic there.
But not here. For your own damn good. If the person below me continues with that discussion. I don't care who it is. That person is dumb. D:
So........ yeaaaaaaah. I like Esoteric. Ironically The song that was a subject to the previous, off-topic discussion is one of my favorite ones. Who woulda thunk, eh?
I also like that they took off the abrassiveness (which I loved btw) of The Maniacal Vale and instead made something more I dunno... Floaty(?).
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| Rating: 4 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 17.06.2014 at 14:21
The stylistic ways they use get to get to the same melodies is totally irrelevant in my opinion. Bands may employ different guitar sounds, more technical drum work, the use of keyboards and so, but ultimately they make effectively the same music. It's about the result, not the method. This is why Scar Symmetry are just as plainly generic as Amon Amarth to me. They do things in different ways but the result is practically the same from an artistic perspective. That's what you don't seem to be able to grasp.
This has gone on too long anyway and is wildly off topic.
It's not irrelevant because the output differs, because an unheard AA or SS song can easily be identified as belonging to those bands. Style = output. Here I sit, waiting for anyone to give me an example of another band that writes in the same melodic style as any of the bands I mentioned - I don't think it will ever come...
Indeed, from an artistic perspective, they all take the same approach and milk their formula to death. That's besides the point. People enjoy the milking and will continue to do so.
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| Rating: 9 |
Back on-topic. From now on ALL off-topic posts will be deleted.
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| Rating: 4 |
I didn't see that post before I replied. I'm done in any case, this is pointless.
On-topic: didn't enjoy, 4/10.
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 Ilham - 17.06.2014 at 18:41
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| Rating: 7 |
I really don't understand what happened there. But...well at least something good came out of it all: it made me listen to the album for the first time. I think I'll need to go back to The Maniacal Vale to be able to form a more complete opinion of this one.
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| Rating: 8 |
Seeings as how my warnings of Jeshua's coming persecution of non-believers in this album were deemed irrelevant...
This is really a great album, no Maniacal Vale of course, but that's really not saying much, as that album was pretty much Esoteric's Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice... phenomenal release that's near impossible to top. I agree with Rod that the aggression being sacrificed for "floatiness" here works wonders, the atmosphere is very easy to get lost in, and the leads are definitely not "medicore." As was previously suggested, you have to take them in reference the band itself, not compared against other bands like "oh, this is how they do it, so if it's not like this, it's shit." This music is very ambient-driven with not a large complexity of structure, so these free-flowing, rather minimalist leads are nothing short of fitting in my opinion.
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by Apothecary on 18.06.2014 at 01:15
Seeings as how my warnings of Jeshua's coming persecution of non-believers in this album were deemed irrelevant...
This is really a great album, no Maniacal Vale of course, but that's really not saying much, as that album was pretty much Esoteric's Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice... phenomenal release that's near impossible to top. I agree with Rod that the aggression being sacrificed for "floatiness" here works wonders, the atmosphere is very easy to get lost in, and the leads are definitely not "medicore." As was previously suggested, you have to take them in reference the band itself, not compared against other bands like "oh, this is how they do it, so if it's not like this, it's shit." This music is very ambient-driven with not a large complexity of structure, so these free-flowing, rather minimalist leads are nothing short of fitting in my opinion.
This whole thread is making me want to give Esoteric a discog playthrough. Has been a while since I've really sat down and listened to them and there's still quite a few records I've never heard of theirs.
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Written by Apothecary on 18.06.2014 at 01:15
definitely not "medicore."
Is this a new genre? =D
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by Karlabos on 18.06.2014 at 01:23
Is this a new genre? =D
Doctor themed metalcore 
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by mz on 17.06.2014 at 13:40
Also, here is the chalange: if esoteric are generic, find a couple of bands playing a similar sort of funeral doom. I've been looking for such thing for long and all I have got are AC and faal (which are clearly influenced by esoteric and follow it)
You may also want to check out (if you haven't already) Russia's Station Dysthymia. They're influenced by Esoteric as well, and their most recent album (Overhead, Without Any Fuss, The Stars Were Going Out) was actually mastered by Chandler, but still... if you're looking for some more Esoteric-ish funeral doom, highly recommended. Actually got my Extreme Doom vote in the MSA last year.
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 18.06.2014 at 01:24
Written by Karlabos on 18.06.2014 at 01:23
Is this a new genre? =D
Doctor themed metalcore
I'm sure Rod would know all about that
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| Rating: 8 |
Written by Apothecary on 18.06.2014 at 01:27
I'm sure Rod would know all about that
I'm sure Rod would love a genre based on him. Would consist of short songs
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mz - 18.06.2014 at 11:13
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| Rating: 7 |
Written by Apothecary on 18.06.2014 at 01:25
You may also want to check out (if you haven't already) Russia's Station Dysthymia. They're influenced by Esoteric as well, and their most recent album (Overhead, Without Any Fuss, The Stars Were Going Out) was actually mastered by Chandler, but still... if you're looking for some more Esoteric-ish funeral doom, highly recommended. Actually got my Extreme Doom vote in the MSA last year.
Yeah I heard that, too but didn't like it that much. Should give it another go, though.
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