Someone near the top of the page talked about young ppl having sex and being irresponsible and not considering the consequences etc.

If they are that irresponsible then should they be having children? No. As far as I'm concerned, any child should be given the best chance to succeed in life by their parents. That means having the baby at a time when the parents are capable of supporting it. If mum is working 3 jobs then she is unlikely to be able to spend enough time with her child to positively influence its development. especially if Dad is not around.

My cousins have each had abortions during their teenage years. I wouldn't have backed any of them to raise a child during that time.

Obviously we don't live in an ideal world where children can be raised under perfect conditions all the time. But abortion is a means by which parents can choose not to have the baby if they KNOW that they are not going to be able to dedicate 150% of their time to raising a child. I see that as a positive.

Even without that, children conceived via rape and medical complications are also pretty good arguments for abortion.

Of course I should mention the psychological effects of abortion on a mother - because those are far from negligible in a discussion like this.

I will agree that if someone has a good reason to abort the child, then by all means, it is your decision... but if you're just too lazy, or selfish and don't wanna fuck up your frat party of a life with a kid, then I think they should force you to carry the kid to term, give birth to it, and then beat you in the head with coat-hangers until you figure out you're an idiot... lazy little skanks...

Sex has been demonized in American society for some reason and I believe this is in large part to blame. Obviously, with all of the women in bikini's and such on our magazines, our secularism and (new-found?) obsession with the female form is showing. However, because of this overtly religious (Christian here in America) form of control on sex, our youth is very uneducated about sex. I was taught about sex once, in fifth grade (that was ten years ago). It wasn't even about having sex, but about the genetic and physiological term sex and about growing up.

Now, people are going to want to have sex. That's plain and simple. But if they don't know how to go about it the right way, mistakes are going to happen. It's unfortunate that something like abortion has to be legal, but I most definitely think it should be. If a girl gets pregnant on accident, I think she should reasonably be able to abort. Getting pregnant and "learning your lesson" is not the same as sitting in timeout instead of going to recess for fighting or getting bitten by the puppy for pulling its tail. This is a much bigger issue that I wish old religious and politically powered men would let the WOMAN WHO IS PREGNANT decide for herself.

Not to mention, abortion these days is not partial-birth if done right, which with legalization should be reasonable. It's the termination of a first trimester amalgamation of undifferentiated cells. I value the human life, but I value it enough to want a child to be born at the right time (economically, physically, and mentally) for both him/her and his/her parents (especially obviously the mother). Just my two cents. But most people seem to agree so I'm glad we are all on the same page. There are many who unfortunately aren't.

Written by Holy Man on 14.12.2009 at 20:25

I will agree that if someone has a good reason to abort the child, then by all means, it is your decision... but if you're just too lazy, or selfish and don't wanna fuck up your frat party of a life with a kid, then I think they should force you to carry the kid to term, give birth to it, and then beat you in the head with coat-hangers until you figure out you're an idiot... lazy little skanks...

The huge flaw with that, is those are the types of women who would make terrible mothers. The fetus in that situation would be better off being aborted, than being brought up by the type of people you describe.

I agree with abortion for several reasons. One, is that in any scenario where it is not the woman's fault for getting pregnant, (Failed contraception, rape, etc...) she should not be made to have a child if she does not want it, when she had no say in the matter. The other reason is related to the post I replied to. If a woman has been irresponsible, and becomes pregnant through stupidity, then she should still be allowed the right to terminate. But more for the potential child's sake, than for the mothers'. If a child is going to be unwanted, then forcing the mother to carry the pregnancy is NOT in the child's best interests. So either way, I agree with abortion. It's just that one reason is for the mother's sake, and the other, for the sake of any potential child brought into the world by unloving, irresponsible parents.

Also, as a woman, I want to feel in control of my own body. It most definitely should be the woman's choice whether to abort or not. After all, it is her who is going to have to carry the child for 9 months, and then go through the agony of childbirth! Men's opinions about abortions are slightly less valid, as it is not them who have to go through the process of carrying the child and giving birth to it. I'm sure many men's attitudes to abortion would be different, if it was them who had to give birth! lol

Written by Angelic Storm on 15.12.2009 at 01:19

Written by Holy Man on 14.12.2009 at 20:25

I will agree that if someone has a good reason to abort the child, then by all means, it is your decision... but if you're just too lazy, or selfish and don't wanna fuck up your frat party of a life with a kid, then I think they should force you to carry the kid to term, give birth to it, and then beat you in the head with coat-hangers until you figure out you're an idiot... lazy little skanks...

The huge flaw with that, is those are the types of women who would make terrible mothers. The fetus in that situation would be better off being aborted, than being brought up by the type of people you describe.

I agree with abortion for several reasons. One, is that in any scenario where it is not the woman's fault for getting pregnant, (Failed contraception, rape, etc...) she should not be made to have a child if she does not want it, when she had no say in the matter. The other reason is related to the post I replied to. If a woman has been irresponsible, and becomes pregnant through stupidity, then she should still be allowed the right to terminate. But more for the potential child's sake, than for the mothers'. If a child is going to be unwanted, then forcing the mother to carry the pregnancy is NOT in the child's best interests. So either way, I agree with abortion. It's just that one reason is for the mother's sake, and the other, for the sake of any potential child brought into the world by unloving, irresponsible parents.

Also, as a woman, I want to feel control of my own body. It most definitely should be the woman's choice whether to abort or not. After all, it is her who is going to have to carry the child for 9 months, and then go through the agony of childbirth! Men's opinions about abortions are slightly less valid, as it is not them who have to go through the process of carrying the child and giving birth to it. I'm sure many men's attitudes to abortion would be different, if it was them who had to give birth! lol

I absolutely agree, I just don't think it's right to make a decision regarding a being's life that can't decide for themselves ya know? If they are responsible for the pregnancy, I would agree that some aren't meant to be mothers, they should at least have to carry it to birth and surrender it to somebody who would care for it ya know? But I also agree that women should have control of their bodies, it's everybody's right... I don't know... I'm torn I guess...

Written by Holy Man on 15.12.2009 at 01:26
I absolutely agree, I just don't think it's right to make a decision regarding a being's life that can't decide for themselves ya know? If they are responsible for the pregnancy, I would agree that some aren't meant to be mothers, they should at least have to carry it to birth and surrender it to somebody who would care for it ya know? But I also agree that women should have control of their bodies, it's everybody's right... I don't know... I'm torn I guess...

Well, I think in that situation, it still MAY be in the unborn child's best interests to be aborted. So it's a grey area, really. I mean, at least here in the UK, the system for children who have to be put in care is quite inadequate. At least in some quarters. Maybe the child would get lucky, maybe not. But in any event, I don't think forcing an irrisponsible woman to carry a pregancy to full term would always be a good idea. I definitely wouldn't object to an abortion in that situation, lets just put it that way. I definitely think it should always be the woman's choice, but some might say as a woman, well I would say that. But like I said, it's not men who have to carry the babies...

Then again, I do agree with what you're saying. I do have a degree of problem with abortion being seen as an ''easy option''. And although I definitely do think that men should also play their part in the contraceptive process, it's really the woman who has to take control of her own body. After all, it is she who will suffer the consequences if she is not careful. I would definitely make sure if I was having sex and wasnt ready for kids, that I was taking contraceptives. The woman has to take responsibility, because although the men definitely should be playing their part, women can't rely on that all the time. Although I may think that an irresponsible woman should still be allowed to have an abortion, I am in no way condoning that irresponsibility. In kids having sex, that may be something that can be expected, but there's no excuse for adults.

Written by Angelic Storm on 15.12.2009 at 20:09

Written by Holy Man on 15.12.2009 at 01:26
I absolutely agree, I just don't think it's right to make a decision regarding a being's life that can't decide for themselves ya know? If they are responsible for the pregnancy, I would agree that some aren't meant to be mothers, they should at least have to carry it to birth and surrender it to somebody who would care for it ya know? But I also agree that women should have control of their bodies, it's everybody's right... I don't know... I'm torn I guess...

Well, I think in that situation, it still MAY be in the unborn child's best interests to be aborted. So it's a grey area, really. I mean, at least here in the UK, the system for children who have to be put in care is quite inadequate. At least in some quarters. Maybe the child would get lucky, maybe not. But in any event, I don't think forcing an irrisponsible woman to carry a pregancy to full term would always be a good idea. I definitely wouldn't object to an abortion in that situation, lets just put it that way. I definitely think it should always be the woman's choice, but some might say as a woman, well I would say that. But like I said, it's not men who have to carry the babies...

Then again, I do agree with what you're saying. I do have a degree of problem with abortion being seen as an ''easy option''. And although I definitely do think that men should also play their part in the contraceptive process, it's really the woman who has to take control of her own body. After all, it is she who will suffer the consequences if she is not careful. I would definitely make sure if I was having sex and wasnt ready for kids, that I was taking contraceptives. The woman has to take responsibility, because although the men definitely should be playing their part, women can't rely on that all the time. Although I may think that an irresponsible woman should still be allowed to have an abortion, I am in no way condoning that irresponsibility. In kids having sex, that may be something that can be expected, but there's no excuse for adults.

I totally agree... I hope I don't sound like an insensitive prick, because I have no idea what childbirth is like so I couldn't really say anything about it. I just feel that it's a child no matter how small it is... I'm just weird. Thanks for understanding though. I see your point

The religious opposition to abortion is one of the many aspects that proves, even in a nation built on respectable secular values (like the U.S,), Christianity is, no matter how "progressive" some of its adherents claim to be, the source of immorality. Although I am, by no means, "pro-abortion", but I am fully and, at least on occasion, passionately pro-choice, so when a group of crazy people who believe in ludicrous myths of a Bronze age origin (in areas of the globe of almost complete illiteracy and abject poverty) organize, sometimes violently, to deny a woman her right to choose when she has a child, I get angry. Once again though, I am not "pro-abortion" or "anti-life" (although I am a death metal fan); it is absurd to suggest that a fetus is, in some way, not a human life (even if it lacks the human abilities we associate with humanness). It is also, on the other hand, absurd to suggest that a woman who, for example, conceives after getting raped should not be allowed to prevent 9 months plus of physical and emotional stress and pain because institutions consisting of old virgins, child molesters, and cynics who willfully succumb to ignorance (or at least exploit the willful ignorance of their followers) say that it is sinful.

I haven't really made my mind up on the subject but I try to think about it from the point of view of being that baby. Would you rather be killed before you knew you existed or be born into a world unloved? I'd probably choose the former.

Written by wormdrink414 on 19.12.2009 at 11:07

..........It is also, on the other hand, absurd to suggest that a woman who, for example, conceives after getting raped should not be allowed to prevent 9 months plus of physical and emotional stress and pain because institutions consisting of old virgins, child molesters, and cynics who willfully succumb to ignorance (or at least exploit the willful ignorance of their followers) say that it is sinful.

Generally i agree - the only i could add is that ignorance, mentioned so many times here is the key-word in my opinion. Abortion is an absolutely important issue of our days. ...But still even nowadays taboos and doctrines of the bronze age (as you said-literally) make an obstacle-wall that leads to all of this madness

Unbelievable the numbers & the rates and the misconception of life itself....

I wish that this situation will be considered an immense mistake & misunderstanding in the future generations (in about 400-500 years perhaps)....

For. I support population control. A woman's body is hers, amirite? Government can't intervene with that, or rather shouldn't be allowed.

To kill an unborn child you'd have to be crazy or desperate. To bring a child into this horrible world you'd have to be crazy or desperate.

Written by Guest on 18.08.2010 at 04:25

To kill an unborn child you'd have to be crazy or desperate. To bring a child into this horrible world you'd have to be crazy or desperate.

My thoughts exactly.

I also agree with the first post on this page.

But if abortions are outlawed how can the Chinese have their delicious 'fetus soup'

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=49650 WARNING: most disturbing photos EVER, watch at your own risk.. also NSFW

Written by Zombie on 19.08.2010 at 22:06

But if abortions are outlawed how can the Chinese have their delicious 'fetus soup'

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=49650 WARNING: most disturbing photos EVER, watch at your own risk.. also NSFW

Those pics are absolutely gross, but are they faked or what? lol

Nah they're true... this is actually well-known ... i thought u guys had heard about it before

you could google it and you'll get thousands of other results with photos... poor fetuses... i think they believe it helps in as a sexual enhancing meal and it increases women's fertility (no wonder how they've reached over 1.3 Billion over there !! )

Written by Guest on 12.01.2010 at 02:22

For. I support population control. A woman's body is hers, amirite? Government can't intervene with that, or rather shouldn't be allowed.

Agreed. Abortion needs to remain an individual choice... and ideally that choice would be made more often.

Written by Zombie on 19.08.2010 at 22:06

But if abortions are outlawed how can the Chinese have their delicious 'fetus soup'

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=49650 WARNING: most disturbing photos EVER, watch at your own risk.. also NSFW

Lolwut?

If a baby is to be aborted, they should at least take all the organs and use them as fetal stem cells...

Nah, soup sounds like a better idea ... well, to the chinese ...

Ok, ok...half of the fetus goes towards soup...the other half towards for fetal stem cells? I'll meet you half way...

I personally dont want to call aborting a forming fetus with no perception of its existence "killing a living soul and taking away its life". Things are a bit complicated as far as defining when an abortion is acceptable though.

Anyway, in my opinion abortion should always be an available option.
I can fully understand and support a rape victim, for example, aborting a birth. Or someone who is financially too weak to carry the responsibility of a child. Or simply when the person is too young to become mother or the preventive measures failed. Because lets face the fact that to a lot of people, not having sex, is not an option.
You have to live yourself, its not just the life of the unborn child we are talking about after all.

The fetus soup story. It was exposed as a hoax a long time ago, was it not?

As far as the topic of abortion goes...there are situations where it's completely necessary and I'd be a fool to be against it. I have zero desire to discuss anything with people who are against it, though. They can go find someone else to preach to. They can't decide someones life for them.
There are people I know who shouldn't have had kids at all, but they have and now not only are they still dumbasses, they're dumbasses responsible for their kids lives when they can't even sort themselves out. It's pretty disgusting to watch.

What I do like is when the prolifers bring up the the (and I've seriously seen people ask this) "How would you feel if your mother aborted you?" It's usually followed by a lot of !!!'s and ? ? ? ?'s so It's more like "How would you feel if you mother aborted you!!!!?????

That has got to be the dumbest question ever. How would I FEEL? Ugh, I wouldn't...you know...exist.

I'm glad to see that's a hoax because I could not imagine people eating that as a soup...its just immoral...and yeah, you can't think for yourself as a fetus so the fetus has no say in the matter haha...

Written by ThisIsNotHere on 21.08.2010 at 10:36


Agreed. Abortion needs to remain an individual choice... and ideally that choice would be made more often.

Except it is not one individual choosing for herself, it is one individual choosing for another. Babies do not choose death.

Written by Guest on 23.09.2010 at 19:04

Written by ThisIsNotHere on 21.08.2010 at 10:36


Agreed. Abortion needs to remain an individual choice... and ideally that choice would be made more often.

Except it is not one individual choosing for herself, it is one individual choosing for another. Babies do not choose death.

Babies don't choose to be born either.

Written by ThisIsNotHere on 24.09.2010 at 10:30
Babies don't choose to be born either.

Exactly. If I'd had a choice, I'd rather have not been born. Does that then mean my mother was immoral for having me?

Saying abortion is wrong because "the child doesn't have a choice" is a stupid arguement. Children don't choose to be born either, so it works both ways. Abortion should always be an option regardless of the situation.

Yeah, emotional appeals tend to fall apart fairly quickly, especially with abortion arguments.

Written by ThisIsNotHere on 24.09.2010 at 11:07

Yeah, emotional appeals tend to fall apart fairly quickly, especially with abortion arguments.

Yep, the problem with most anti-abortion arguements, is they never look at the big picture. It is not a simple black and white issue, but thats exactly what pro-lifers try and paint it as.

Written by Angelic Storm on 24.09.2010 at 11:12

Written by ThisIsNotHere on 24.09.2010 at 11:07

Yeah, emotional appeals tend to fall apart fairly quickly, especially with abortion arguments.

Yep, the problem with most anti-abortion arguements, is they never look at the big picture. It is not a simple black and white issue, but thats exactly what pro-lifers try and paint it as.

Very few things can be painted as black and white. Life just isn't that simple.

Written by ThisIsNotHere on 24.09.2010 at 11:22
Very few things can be painted as black and white. Life just isn't that simple.

Yep, exactly.

Though I think when religion is part of the equation, as it often is in arguements like the anti-abortion one, all rationality goes out of the window.