You guys are far too pessimistic, the way I see it people are only just starting to realise how much we have ruined the planet. Whenever I've eaten magic mushrooms the state of the planet and all the commercialism and everything really upsets me, but otherwise I don't really see all that much of a problem, apart from poverty of course, but I'm not sure that can be prevented in certain parts of the world.

Oh and why the hell would you want to be a neanderthal living on a mountain when you could just live in a nice cozy house and own a car and a television.

As for the extinction of certain species of animals, really there aren't that many that are at risk at becoming extinct, but the ones that are can be saved if we crack down on poachers and whalers. Also I have no problem with killing animals for food, it is the way they are killed that is disgusting in some cases, such as the way they kill cats and dogs to eat in korea, skinning them alive, hanging them above some boiling oil by the tail then lowering them into it slowly until they are dead. And fur should be illeagal EVERYWHERE, it's disgusting how they skin them alive like they do, after cutting of their feet so they cant get away, then toss the STILL ALIVE skinned animal on a heap of others... it's very sad.

Written by [user id=2796] on 25.06.2006 at 09:18

You guys are far too pessimistic, the way I see it people are only just starting to realise how much we have ruined the planet. Whenever I've eaten magic mushrooms the state of the planet and all the commercialism and everything really upsets me, but otherwise I don't really see all that much of a problem, apart from poverty of course, but I'm not sure that can be prevented in certain parts of the world.

Pessimistic.. or realistic. You've got to realize we will need all of our might to restore this earth. I don't we can restore our world in our current way of living.

Quote:

Oh and why the hell would you want to be a neanderthal living on a mountain when you could just live in a nice cozy house and own a car and a television.

Why? Because I want to (try to) live in harmony with the Earth and Nature, and because we can do without a cozy house and a car.

Quote:

As for the extinction of certain species of animals, really there aren't that many that are at risk at becoming extinct, but the ones that are can be saved if we crack down on poachers and whalers. Also I have no problem with killing animals for food, it is the way they are killed that is disgusting in some cases, such as the way they kill cats and dogs to eat in korea, skinning them alive, hanging them above some boiling oil by the tail then lowering them into it slowly until they are dead. And fur should be illeagal EVERYWHERE, it's disgusting how they skin them alive like they do, after cutting of their feet so they cant get away, then toss the STILL ALIVE skinned animal on a heap of others... it's very sad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_species

Scroll down a little, and look for the list of 'Endangered Species'. Not all will have mankind as source of danger, but a lot of them do.

Hunting down poachers and whalers isn't going to help us. We need those poachers and whalers realize they should stop. Otherwise they'll keep poaching.

Mankind is the dominant race on the planet. Whether we were put here to do so, or have done so out of evolution, it is so. I don't know a lot of specifics, but humankind will always be its own greatest enemy. Whether we will eliminate ourselves, or be terminated by some other means, I do not know. I do so however intend to live my life as I will. It is a pity the results of our actions on the other life forms of Earth, but that, my friends, is what I like to call life. As always, I am half and half on this discussion, never being able to take a side. I do know however we will meet some sticky end, whether alone or all at once. Pessimists are the people who have accepted the truth, optimists are those who won't. Evolution is for real.

Live.

Yes. Live.

But when we live, should we live so that other animals are surpressed, that their space is limited?

Written by Lucas on 26.06.2006 at 12:29

Yes. Live.

But when we live, should we live so that other animals are surpressed, that their space is limited?

No, of course not, but somehow most of us do anyway. We can all discuss this and that, but in all reality we're still sitting here in our nice houses on our computers typing away not getting anything done. Funny, how we are the only ones with the capability to care if we destroy things, and are so split on decisions, while animals do it out of instinct and are probably the most careless creatures of all. Funny indeed.

Yes. Very twisted too. I wonder if it is in our nature to destroy..

There are many powers in this world, the human race can't be the only force or the greates to cover the worls with gunpowder, the mother nature (i want to see it in that way) is a very powerful force, you see what happen to the people that lives near of th seas or dry weather, the people must adjust to the earth, not in the other way.

I think what happen now is the punishment of our destructive acts, we the human race want to believe in something, but the problem is that we don't believe in ourselves, the ideas about someone divine that make us a better life is very stupid, for me God is a force, as the mother nature other force, so we're the only ones responsible of our acts, our wars and our faith are something of our own thinkin' but to destroy is like the animal that doesn't evolve...

I feel that the human race is a virus. As explained somewhat crudely in the Matrix, we have evolved fom mammals to a virus with the physical appearance of mammals. We spread and multiply until all the resources are consumed and then we spread some more. We have cured diseases because we have felt the need to survive and therefore have developed a sort of immunity to those types of population control and are now a "mutated" strain of human.

Diseases, natural disasters, and other things that would kill humans are the planet's population control and I don't think that we should be running from them. Soon enough we will overrun the planet and kill ourselves on the path that we are on. I agree with Nervel that we should not run from death. We need to become more intune with nature the way we once were. I don't think we need to give up everything, simply respect our planet more and accept that death is a constant and will happen at some point or another whether we are ready for it or not.

I don't see the human race as bad, what is wrong with us is that we lost the main idea about what we really are, we're in the world to do something different, to be ourselves, to be happy, to learn, to enjoy but we forgot this, replacing this by many things that we know that makes us be like we are: full of pain, violence, ignorance, etc

I agree with FlareHeart when she says that we'll kill ourselves on the path that we're, because we don't only damage us in many ways, but The Earth: our home! Just look what we've done with it!
And I agree also with the part that we should respect our planet and accept death and I think that we'll do it when we see what we really are, the reason why we are in the world and when we respect and love ourselves, then we can do something different

I dont think the humen race is bad...
I dont think a humen is born selfish, or a killer, he is not born good or evil.
A humen is shapet by how it grows up and by the surroundings culture/
I think post-modern westren culture stinks, I hate it.

But who has created the post-modern western culture? Wasn't that us?

And how is the western culture better than any other culture?

I'm interested, please elaborate.

Humans are animals.

Granted we are the top of the food chain, the most intelligent in terms of resourcefulness, craftyness etc. But the most stupid in terms of character flaws etc. Because of our plethora of knowledge we have become the stupidest, weakest animal on the earth. For all our research and technilogical advances we still engage in war and fights, arguments and lies.

Due to the fact that 99% of the human population are mindless, conforming sheep, the other 1% (true intellectuals) have to suffer. The solution is a mass culling of the botched, weak, disables, elderly humans. Keep on the strong, smart, wise etc. and start afresh. Sounds drastic I know, but if that doesn't happened, we're doomed to a very bleak future. Sure we can have moments of fleeting happiness, but in the end we all end up 6 feet under, rotting, with maggots in our skull

It's a pleasant thought, isn't it?

Written by Lucas on 07.07.2006 at 04:40

What do you mean, that animals would also destroy this Earth? I don't see how they are capable of destroying this world?


That is so beautifull about Nature, and we have so drastically outgrown it we are no longer affected by it.

Just wanted to say i absolutely agree here and think exactly the same myself, the reason that the food chain is exactly right and that there arent too much of the higher species or not too few of the lower ones is simply that it evolved this way, if there first were alot of higher species on the top of the food chain they would die because there arent enough of the lower, so it gets balanced again, if there are too much of the lower ones then the higher ones can thrive, thusly producing more, thus eating more and it would be balanced aswell

Written by Vinnie R. on 27.06.2006 at 21:22

we the human race want to believe in something


we're the only ones responsible of our acts, our wars and our faith are something of our own thinkin' but to destroy is like the animal that doesn't evolve...

itts not so much that the human wants to believe in something but more that the human race tries to find an explanation for everything, if he cant find an explanation he makes one up, a divine being

as for the second part i quoted, please explain that, i dont really get the connection

Written by FlareHeart on 28.06.2006 at 01:27

I feel that the human race is a virus.

Diseases, natural disasters, and other things that would kill humans are the planet's population control

i fully agree with the second part and fully disagree with the first part,

the first is nonsense, we dont run from death because we´re human, but because we are in the position to do so, just like us animals try everything possible to not die, the difference is they dont have medicines, we do, we arent much more viruses then any other specie, we are only the most powerful one

as to the second part, this would be what nervel explained in one of his posts, nature takes care of itself, this is why there never were any problems with that there was too much of some animal specie,
however nowadays it happens from time to time that there is an overpopulation of a certain animal and that large numbers of it must be hunt down, however if this happens it is only because WE have killed its natural enemies or if WE have killed alo of other animals that eat the same food, and because of that this specie could eat alot and thrive

Written by [user id=5321] on 03.07.2006 at 12:40

I dont think the humen race is bad...

we aren born bad because there is no such thing is good and bad,
but we are born with a set pattern of feelings and instincts, and these can have positive or negative results

Written by [user id=7583] on 03.07.2006 at 14:46

But the most stupid in terms of character flaws etc.

why?

alot of characzeristics of the human psyche are flaws nowadays, however they werent flaws at first, they were needed to survive, they were instincts, however nowadays they are redundant, the positive aspects of them arent necesary anymore because the technologies do that stuff for us, however their negative aspects are still here.
greed is a nice example, greed was at first an instinct which made sure we survived because it wanted us to get better and better living standards, as neanderthalers it made us want to get more food and get cooked meat etc. it improved our living standards, and thats what it tries to do nowadays aswell, however we already have a very good living standard, but the will to get lots of money (money means imrpoved living standard, better clothes, more food, better house etc.) is still there, its not needed but its still working, and nowadays its seen as something very bad

i have no doubt that animals share alot of instincts with us, however they still need them, they arent harmful yet because animals dont have our technology, however if they had i´m sure their flaws would be just as much and just as bad as ours

@Bas2, I agree with most you said in your above post, and I'd like to point out your last post.

Your example of greed is very good, we are still the same (very much) animal/creature, and we don't need the instincts we once used.. very interesting way of thinking!!

Written by [user id=2796] on 25.06.2006 at 09:18

Oh and why the hell would you want to be a neanderthal living on a mountain when you could just live in a nice cozy house and own a car and a television.

...
but the ones that are can be saved if we crack down on poachers and whalers.

it is the way they are killed that is disgusting in some cases

And fur should be illeagal EVERYWHERE

now you are contradicting yourself,
you say you want to keep your lifestyle and not make it a less comfortable one, however you want others to stop with their current lifestyle and have a less comfortable one,

the poachers and whalers do it for a living, if they wouldnt do it they wouldnt have any job at all, they wouldnt have any of the luxuries they have now,

if the animals are killed in a different way then those who kill them will earn less money as the other ways of killing them are less effecient for mass produtcion,

you expect others to not wear fur, just because it's bad in your opinion, however you dont want to part with your television either,


i'm not saying that i agree with all these people, but i am saying that you dont want to give up your lifestyle, and they dont want to give up theirs

Written by Clintagräm on 27.06.2006 at 07:24

No, of course not, but somehow most of us do anyway. We can all discuss this and that, but in all reality we're still sitting here in our nice houses on our computers typing away not getting anything done.

i fully agree here, you're absolutely right, but this wont change,
i personally dont think i can change anything, and actually i dont want to, i enjoy to participate in such discussions because i have some interest in psychology and philosophy, not because i think i can make this world better

Written by The Alchemist on 28.06.2006 at 07:48

we're in the world to do something different, to be ourselves, to be happy, to learn, to enjoy

And I agree also with the part that we should accept death

this wont work, if you live life to it's fullest and if you enjoy every day, and if you are always happy, and always try to learn etc. then you wont want to accept death, it's easy to say you will from behind a desk when you are all healthy, but if you have a possibly deadly disease and are lying on your bed and have the choice between medicine and death, your choice will be medicine, you will want to hold on to your life and try to get healthy again, to be happy again and enjoy every single day again,

you will not accept death

All you need to do is look around at the amount of pollution, rape, torture, pain, crime, loss of life, poverty to see that mankind has pretty much fucked up the entire world. Oh sure there are happy times, wel all experience them, but on the grand scheme of things humanity has done a lot more bad than good.

but why does that make us worse then any other animal?
we arent too bad, we´re just too powerful,

please inform yourself before you post, because your posts just sound like the stereotypical misanthrope, please at least try to backup your statements with reasons and arguments

you have a point there, I agree with all that running from death and the leaisiness of our speacie but I don't think we should go back to hunting animals with our bare hands and running around in thoren animal hides . I mean if we have such a powerful brain whay not use it. I know that we created a lot of problems but we also went to the moon and in my oppinion ower meaning in this world is to advance our thecnologi as far as we can and also to ensure the continuation of ower spiecie with a new generation, not with kiping old people alive or by helping the skilless individuals with things like soccial care after they are mature. over protection made us weak. in the past people lived without a tone of medicinal drugs decause they hade an imune sistem which we are rendering usless, dus distroing it with all the drugs we curently use . i mean come on we use drugs for the comon cold which by the way the imune sistem can handel in a weak. that is if you still got one

Some obvious examples are the world wars, the number of rapes that occur every day, murdering etc.
Just look at the amount of crime in the world. How can anyone be happy with the state of the world or at humanity in general?
I'm personally disgusted with humanity and mankind.
Then look at other animals. Because of their simplistic lifestyle they don't have wars etc.
I'm not saying revert back to that simplistic state of life, but people need to learn how to co-exist peacefully, or simply not co-exist and become isolated beings.
At the rate the world is going now, I don't see the human race lasting much more than another couple of hundred years.
The amount of progress in nuclear weapons etc. is enough. One click of the trigger and we're all gone, what a happy race we are?
My personal solution is to pick apart the world, remove the weak scum and leave the strong individuals.
Obviously this is not plausible and will never happen but I hope I got my point across better than before somewhat.

Written by [user id=7583] on 05.07.2006 at 13:41

Some obvious examples are the world wars, the number of rapes that occur every day, murdering etc.
I'm personally disgusted with humanity and mankind.

My personal solution is to pick apart the world, remove the weak scum and leave the strong individuals.
Obviously this is not plausible and will never happen

but I hope I got my point across better than before somewhat.

yes you did get your point alot better across this time,

referring to what you said in a earlier post, that humanity is worse then any other animal,
rape and murder are two extremely common things in the animal world, actually in nature almost every time an animal has sex its rape, theft is also very common in nature, as for wars, like you said animals cant have wars yet, but that doesnt mean they wouldnt if they could,
so my conclusion is, humanity is NOT worse then animals

as to removing the weakest individuals, how do you choose which individuals are weakest?
what do you base this decision on?

Written by [user id=11925] on 05.07.2006 at 13:40

you have a point there, I agree with all that running from death and the leaisiness of our speacie but I don't think we should go back to hunting animals with our bare hands and running around in thoren animal hides . I mean if we have such a powerful brain whay not use it. I know that we created a lot of problems but we also went to the moon and in my oppinion ower meaning in this world is to advance our thecnologi as far as we can and also to ensure the continuation of ower spiecie with a new generation, not with kiping old people alive or by helping the skilless individuals with things like soccial care after they are mature. over protection made us weak. in the past people lived without a tone of medicinal drugs decause they hade an imune sistem which we are rendering usless, dus distroing it with all the drugs we curently use . i mean come on we use drugs for the comon cold which by the way the imune sistem can handel in a weak. that is if you still got one

so basically what you are saying is that you want us to expand our technology and concentrate on getting stronger´, and that we shouldnt help the weakest links in society stay alive?

(sorry for having to ask but unfortunately you got some writing mistakes there which made it a bit hard to read)

Individual and free though, ability to assist in the positive progression of mankind, intellect etc.
So many weak minded fools in the world slowing humanity down, and equally as many devious humans infecting the minds of the strong.
I find it hard to look at another person without thinking of the wrong they can do, or of the weakness of their mind and lack of intelligent thought.
I know it's probably just me, or a small minority who think like that, but hey, we're right.
Humanity does more bad than good, just take a look around.

Written by [user id=7583] on 05.07.2006 at 13:56

Individual and free though, ability to assist in the positive progression of mankind, intellect etc.

and how do you test this?

on another note, if someone would tell you that someone else has decided you are too weak to survive, would you just let yourself be killed voluntarily?
now at the moment you are only talking about other people which would have to leave, but what if you had to leave yourself?

I wouldn't, because I'm right.
Individual and free though: Those who read philosophy, those who write, compose, can hold an intellectual conversation etc.
As opposed to the herd-conforming sheep that make up the other 99.9% of the human race.

Written by [user id=7583] on 05.07.2006 at 14:04

I wouldn't, because I'm right.

As opposed to the herd-conforming sheep that make up the other 99.9% of the human race.

right, you belong to that 0.1% of humanity which is better than everyone else :
hooray, congratulations

It's a good feeling. A shame you're far too stupid to understand. Perhaps in a couple of years when you've attained a firm grasp upon the English language

Written by [user id=7583] on 05.07.2006 at 14:04

I wouldn't, because I'm right.
Individual and free though: Those who read philosophy, those who write, compose, can hold an intellectual conversation etc.
As opposed to the herd-conforming sheep that make up the other 99.9% of the human race.

Well if the human race ever would have a mass eradication of people that doesnt help in the right direction, I wouldnt be to surprised if you was on the killing list. Why? Because you look at yourself as some kind of superhuman, and I cant really figure how a future society would look like when everyone runs around thinking they are the best just because the write, read philosophy , compose and hold intellectual conversations with eachother. There is other valuable aspects for humans to succeed than just degrading the surrounding beings.

Well whatever who am I to speak of this I really dont care anyway. Cheers

If you don't think that you're better than everyone else, then you're always going to be second best, and who wants that?
Self-superiority is healthy, feeling better than others is healthy.
Read a bit fo Nietzsche once in a while.
Or maybe you have since you used the term superhuman...?*

* Übermensch / Overman / Superman, a Nietzsche concept.

No I havent read anything of Nietzsche. But I suppose I will soon since I will study Philosofy next year. Maybe I will understand your way of thinking better then!

Not to try and get off the topic or anything...

He's a great writer, I've just begain reading "The Anti-Christ" (as is fairly evident) and it raises some great points.
Other works worth looking into would be "The Gay Science" (not about homosexuallity, this was written before the word took on that double meaning) and "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" which deals with the concept of Ubermensch..

in my eyes he is an amazing writer, that is why i love to read his stuff, but i dont think of him as a good philosopher and i strongly disagree with most of his ideas...




anyway i'd like to bring this thread back up again,
does anyone of you think that the human as such has a higher purpose?
do you think that one day we will do something of high significance?
do you think that the human will evolve further and that we will become some sort of higher race eventually?
if yes what do you think is necessary for that to happen, and more important, do you think that would be worth it?