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Deathnote: L vs Kira



Posts: 49   Visited by: 49 users

Poll

Whose side are you on, l's or kira's

Kira
12
L
8

Total votes: 20
25.02.2010 - 03:35
whatsacow

Ok, whose side are you on? Please explain your answers, but don't leave spoilers in case some people havent seen the ending.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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25.02.2010 - 03:41
soadbyob
Account deleted
Kira all the way, i just like his way of thinking better
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25.02.2010 - 03:50
whatsacow

Yeah... i do to... but L is so cool. The way he sits, how much he eats, and his deduction skills are just plain awesome.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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25.02.2010 - 09:41
Arian Totalis
The Philosopher
Written by whatsacow on 25.02.2010 at 03:50

Yeah... i do to... but L is so cool. The way he sits, how much he eats, and his deduction skills are just plain awesome.

Yay, L sits cool and eats alot! But seriously he is pretty awsome. He was damn clever, and the way he went out was just epic. Light was cool too, in alot of ways, but he was very egotistical and full of grandure. On top of that, he got power drunk right at the end made a not so light-like mistake. All the same, they both are basically tied on my end of things....
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"For the Coward there is no Life
For the hero there is No Death"
-Kakita Toshimoko

"The Philosopher, you know so much about nothing at all." _Chuck Schuldiner.
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20.03.2010 - 01:46
nana.MD
Star-Queen
Kira is so smart and evil lol...he looks like this cute little nerd fellow that wouldn't kill an ant and he is totally insane haha...i like the way the thinks things out and steps ahead in what would happen...L is an excellent character too, there couldn't be a better nemesis for yagami than him...i was expecting kira to win though it would've been interesting to see what happened then...
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Live how you want just don't feed on me, if you doubt what I say I will make you believe...
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20.03.2010 - 01:52
Valentin B
Iconoclast
Hmm good question, both are really well-written characters and made for an incredibly thrilling ride. "why do you keep looking at that watch?" "well, it's because... i am kira."
but i think i'll just go with L since he's not an insane murderous megalomaniac

@everyone who is a death note fan, try the first 2 movies too, and the third one if you just love L's quirks and shit. they don't follow the exact story but they are imo pretty good.
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20.03.2010 - 02:42
Insineratehymn
Account deleted
I can't really choose. I like Kira because his moral ambiguity makes him more realistic, but I also like L because he reminds me a bit of me, what with the constant eating and hardly ever seeing the sunlight and all.
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25.03.2010 - 06:42
nana.MD
Star-Queen
I couldn't watch the movies...idk why but i find them funny...tried it with nana too and it was the same result...guess i just still prefer anime
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Live how you want just don't feed on me, if you doubt what I say I will make you believe...
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19.08.2010 - 08:09
mismoree

Kira. (probably because I kept comparing him to Lelouch from Code Geass. That made it REALLY hard to watch Death Note)
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25.08.2010 - 00:44
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
L. Because Kira wasn't smart. At all. L was obnouxious every once in a while, but at least the man liked coffee.

On a side note: DN is one of the few animes that I can watch without getting sick. The only anime I ever actually liked (more like adored, loved) was Ergo Proxy.
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25.08.2010 - 09:45
Elio
Red Nightmare
L because, differently from Kira, he didn't really know his enemy, all he knew was stuff he deducted on his own.

[SPOILER]
Also, afterwards L's death, the manga becomes shit, I couldn't even bother myself to finish it at a certain point.
[/SPOILER]
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IntoPlighT said: "Slipknot is 15 years old how the fuck is that Nu metal?"

BEST. QUOTE. EVER.
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26.08.2010 - 03:31
whatsacow

Written by Elio on 25.08.2010 at 09:45

L because, differently from Kira, he didn't really know his enemy, all he knew was stuff he deducted on his own.

[SPOILER]
Also, afterwards L's death, the manga becomes shit, I couldn't even bother myself to finish it at a certain point.
[/SPOILER]

True, but the last part of the story is just plain awesome
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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09.09.2010 - 21:45
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by whatsacow on 26.08.2010 at 03:31

Written by Elio on 25.08.2010 at 09:45

L because, differently from Kira, he didn't really know his enemy, all he knew was stuff he deducted on his own.

[SPOILER]
Also, afterwards L's death, the manga becomes shit, I couldn't even bother myself to finish it at a certain point.
[/SPOILER]

True, but the last part of the story is just plain awesome


Actually, I couldn't diagree more. The good guys only win because they get lucky, the ending reveals that Near's stupidity would have almost gotten everyone killed. Kira on the other hand should have had the other guy write down all the others names on a separete piece of the real death note just to be sure.
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15.09.2010 - 02:14
Vunts

Hah, nice. I could have tied the votes, but I tipped in L's favour instead.
I didn't have much against Kira. He did want to make the world a better place. In a lot of ways, my ideas relate to his. I hate the way the world is right now. If I was in his position, then I would probably do the exact same thing.
However, L was simply a much more likable character. His eccentricity stuck, his logic was almost flawless, and he left a more lasting impression than Kira, because his character remained true til the end. But Kira got too selfish. Due to potential spoilers, I will just stop here.
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05.10.2010 - 15:39
joaquin

Omg noo kira is the best...
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courage to chage the things and wisdom to know the difference

real gamers never die, they just respawn
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22.01.2011 - 20:08
trogdor

I was with Kira until he

[Spoiler]
killed L
[Spoiler]

and how he

[Spoiler]
died like a bitch
[Spoiler]
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25.01.2011 - 21:29
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by Vunts on 15.09.2010 at 02:14

I didn't have much against Kira. He did want to make the world a better place. In a lot of ways, my ideas relate to his. I hate the way the world is right now. If I was in his position, then I would probably do the exact same thing.


Are you serious? You would kill the FBI agents rather than wait for them to conclude that you aren't Kira - which Penbar was a day away from doing - really? This is was actually the moment that I stopped caring about Kira alltogether. Before that, he's actions were at least understandable, though far from condonable (is that a word?).
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26.01.2011 - 00:43
Vunts

Written by Guest on 25.01.2011 at 21:29

Written by Vunts on 15.09.2010 at 02:14

I didn't have much against Kira. He did want to make the world a better place. In a lot of ways, my ideas relate to his. I hate the way the world is right now. If I was in his position, then I would probably do the exact same thing.


Are you serious? You would kill the FBI agents rather than wait for them to conclude that you aren't Kira - which Penbar was a day away from doing - really? This is was actually the moment that I stopped caring about Kira alltogether. Before that, he's actions were at least understandable, though far from condonable (is that a word?).


I meant the way he was in the beginning. His general ideals, that criminals should pay. I believe I also mentioned after the part that you quoted, that Kira's character got ruined as the series progressed.
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27.01.2011 - 20:22
whatsacow

Written by Vunts on 26.01.2011 at 00:43

Written by Guest on 25.01.2011 at 21:29

Written by Vunts on 15.09.2010 at 02:14

I didn't have much against Kira. He did want to make the world a better place. In a lot of ways, my ideas relate to his. I hate the way the world is right now. If I was in his position, then I would probably do the exact same thing.


Are you serious? You would kill the FBI agents rather than wait for them to conclude that you aren't Kira - which Penbar was a day away from doing - really? This is was actually the moment that I stopped caring about Kira alltogether. Before that, he's actions were at least understandable, though far from condonable (is that a word?).


I meant the way he was in the beginning. His general ideals, that criminals should pay. I believe I also mentioned after the part that you quoted, that Kira's character got ruined as the series progressed.


I disagree that his character was ruined. One of the major themes in Death Note is how power corrupts, so this transition into an insane bastard works perfectly. And in reality, you'd probably do anything to save your own arse anyway.
----
When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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27.01.2011 - 22:52
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by whatsacow on 27.01.2011 at 20:22

I disagree that his character was ruined. One of the major themes in Death Note is how power corrupts, so this transition into an insane bastard works perfectly. And in reality, you'd probably do anything to save your own arse anyway.


The problem is that Kira started out as an insane bastard. He was that way _from the beginning_ and never changed, he simply went further and further with his actions as he came to realize that there was nothing that he could not get away with and there was no one who could stop him. From the moment he realized that the notebook worked, he saw himself as a god who had the right to terminate lives, which means he was always evil. And that is why he basically sucked as a character, because he had no journey of his own and no reason at all to be the way he was. He's family as far as we saw was perfectly normal, there was no mention of Light having any psychological problems in the past either.
And yet Light/Kira didn't hesitate for a second before killing the innocent FBI agents, people that he, if he was truly a champion for justice, should have seen as equels - men and women who risked their lives every day to rid the world of crime. Kira didn't kill the FBI agents because he had no other choice, he didn't kill them because they were within an inch of catching him, he killed them because they were an inconvenience, because they were interfering with "god's" plans. He was at that point already a fully formed psychopath, who felt neither sorrow nor regret.
Death Note is an anime that has gotten people to talk and think about, but for no real reason. I hear people complimenting the show because they think it makes YOU think what you would do if you found a notebook. I hear people saying Light/Kira is a great villain, because he shows what would happen to an average person, if an average person got his fingers on too much power. The problem is that an average Joe or Jane is not a psychopath with a god complex and guessing what would happen if you handed The Joker or Kefka a "kill loads of people" device isn't too difficult.

The reality is, guys and girls, dudes and dudettes, that Death Note got it wrong with the main character, dead wrong. Yagami Light should not have found the death note, somebody else should have. Someone like Misa Misa or that other guy that joined with Kira towards the end of the series (forgot his name...was it Naruto?). Someone, who maybe had suffered in the hands of criminals or school bullies, someone who had lost a dear one to criminals, someone who not only had a strong desire to see justice bestowed upon those who did evil deeds, but who was also a truly average person. Somebody, who would loose his/her sanity eventually, because of the power attained and not because he/she was a crazy psychopath from chapter 1 with no explanation for it.
This is a common theme with almost all of Japanese anime, one or two ideas thrown into a story that features characters who's best attribute is usually their hair if they're a guy or their chest, if they're a woman. What a wasted opportunity. Sigh...
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28.01.2011 - 02:33
Vunts

Written by whatsacow on 27.01.2011 at 20:22

Written by Vunts on 26.01.2011 at 00:43

Written by Guest on 25.01.2011 at 21:29

Written by Vunts on 15.09.2010 at 02:14

I didn't have much against Kira. He did want to make the world a better place. In a lot of ways, my ideas relate to his. I hate the way the world is right now. If I was in his position, then I would probably do the exact same thing.


Are you serious? You would kill the FBI agents rather than wait for them to conclude that you aren't Kira - which Penbar was a day away from doing - really? This is was actually the moment that I stopped caring about Kira alltogether. Before that, he's actions were at least understandable, though far from condonable (is that a word?).


I meant the way he was in the beginning. His general ideals, that criminals should pay. I believe I also mentioned after the part that you quoted, that Kira's character got ruined as the series progressed.


I disagree that his character was ruined. One of the major themes in Death Note is how power corrupts, so this transition into an insane bastard works perfectly. And in reality, you'd probably do anything to save your own arse anyway.


I didn't mention ruined in the sense that his character developement sucked. It was a good story, logical as well. I simply didn't like the way he was completed. That was the main reason why I vote for L and would still vote for L (I enjoyed his character much more).
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28.01.2011 - 08:02
whatsacow

Written by Guest on 27.01.2011 at 22:52

Written by whatsacow on 27.01.2011 at 20:22

I disagree that his character was ruined. One of the major themes in Death Note is how power corrupts, so this transition into an insane bastard works perfectly. And in reality, you'd probably do anything to save your own arse anyway.


The problem is that Kira started out as an insane bastard. He was that way _from the beginning_ and never changed, he simply went further and further with his actions as he came to realize that there was nothing that he could not get away with and there was no one who could stop him. From the moment he realized that the notebook worked, he saw himself as a god who had the right to terminate lives, which means he was always evil. And that is why he basically sucked as a character, because he had no journey of his own and no reason at all to be the way he was. He's family as far as we saw was perfectly normal, there was no mention of Light having any psychological problems in the past either.
And yet Light/Kira didn't hesitate for a second before killing the innocent FBI agents, people that he, if he was truly a champion for justice, should have seen as equels - men and women who risked their lives every day to rid the world of crime. Kira didn't kill the FBI agents because he had no other choice, he didn't kill them because they were within an inch of catching him, he killed them because they were an inconvenience, because they were interfering with "god's" plans. He was at that point already a fully formed psychopath, who felt neither sorrow nor regret.
Death Note is an anime that has gotten people to talk and think about, but for no real reason. I hear people complimenting the show because they think it makes YOU think what you would do if you found a notebook. I hear people saying Light/Kira is a great villain, because he shows what would happen to an average person, if an average person got his fingers on too much power. The problem is that an average Joe or Jane is not a psychopath with a god complex and guessing what would happen if you handed The Joker or Kefka a "kill loads of people" device isn't too difficult.

The reality is, guys and girls, dudes and dudettes, that Death Note got it wrong with the main character, dead wrong. Yagami Light should not have found the death note, somebody else should have. Someone like Misa Misa or that other guy that joined with Kira towards the end of the series (forgot his name...was it Naruto?). Someone, who maybe had suffered in the hands of criminals or school bullies, someone who had lost a dear one to criminals, someone who not only had a strong desire to see justice bestowed upon those who did evil deeds, but who was also a truly average person. Somebody, who would loose his/her sanity eventually, because of the power attained and not because he/she was a crazy psychopath from chapter 1 with no explanation for it.
This is a common theme with almost all of Japanese anime, one or two ideas thrown into a story that features characters who's best attribute is usually their hair if they're a guy or their chest, if they're a woman. What a wasted opportunity. Sigh...

But if you think about it, the god complex works. The whole show Kira is being complimented by his parents, or hit on by other girls because of his looks and intelligence. So he had a god complex to begin with. And as for kira being a complete psychopath, you see from the very beginning that he is cold and calculated, from his use of girls, the way he treats his family etc. His mind perceived it as logical for him to dispatch the fbi agents, becausewhile it is an inconvenience now, later they could have posed more of a threat. Kira never wanted to be a figure of justice, IMO, he always wanted to be a god.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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28.01.2011 - 21:27
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by whatsacow on 28.01.2011 at 08:02

But if you think about it, the god complex works. The whole show Kira is being complimented by his parents, or hit on by other girls because of his looks and intelligence. So he had a god complex to begin with.


That's sort of my point, he had a god complex from the start, which makes him everything but an average Joe. That is the missed opportunity, because the show never addressed the way power corrupts, Light/Kira was already corrupt through and trough from chapter 1. I would have preferred if he actually developed a god complex in the course of the first five or so episodes, it would have made him more relatable. Maybe it could have gone a little bit something like this:

Light tests the notebook and writes the name of the criminal into the death note. The guy dies, hostiges are free.

Light is in complete and utter shock. He racks his brain about what he's done and tries to convinve himself that he couldn't have killed the criminal. There are no such things as real death notes!

Or are there? There's only one way to find out and eventually his need to free himself of guilt drives him to repeat the act. BANG! And another criminal dies. There's no more room for doubt, he has killed two people. He goes home, doesn't talk to anyone in his family, he feels like a ghost in the fog, he cannot forgive himself, he considers writing his own name into the Death Note.

Then his neighbours invite him and his family over for dinner and it turns out that one of the hostages who escaped was his neighbor's seven year old son. His mother talks about how lucky they were that he got away safely. "It's as if God was watching over him!" She says.

And suddenly he begins to see: the life of the boy was worth more than the life of the criminal, no one would argue with him on this. Thank God the criminal had a heart attack, they say. But it wasn't God, it was him.

And then he slowly begins to see himself as a hero. He does everything within his power to NOT KILL the FBI agents, only when he is left with no other choice, does he write their names into the Death Note and surprisingly, he is doesn't feel that guilty about it. Because he _is_ God.

There are the makings of a developing, interesting character roughly sketched out. Unfortunately that wasn't what they did with his character in the anime/manga. Kira was a completel unlikeable bastard from the beginning.

Quote:

And as for kira being a complete psychopath, you see from the very beginning that he is cold and calculated, from his use of girls, the way he treats his family etc. His mind perceived it as logical for him to dispatch the fbi agents, becausewhile it is an inconvenience now, later they could have posed more of a threat. Kira never wanted to be a figure of justice, IMO, he always wanted to be a god.


Exactly, which is why the idea that Kira's original ideals or thoughts were something that any average person could understand is completely false.
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28.01.2011 - 22:04
whatsacow

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 21:27

Written by whatsacow on 28.01.2011 at 08:02

But if you think about it, the god complex works. The whole show Kira is being complimented by his parents, or hit on by other girls because of his looks and intelligence. So he had a god complex to begin with.


That's sort of my point, he had a god complex from the start, which makes him everything but an average Joe. That is the missed opportunity, because the show never addressed the way power corrupts, Light/Kira was already corrupt through and trough from chapter 1. I would have preferred if he actually developed a god complex in the course of the first five or so episodes, it would have made him more relatable. Maybe it could have gone a little bit something like this:

Light tests the notebook and writes the name of the criminal into the death note. The guy dies, hostiges are free.

Light is in complete and utter shock. He racks his brain about what he's done and tries to convinve himself that he couldn't have killed the criminal. There are no such things as real death notes!

Or are there? There's only one way to find out and eventually his need to free himself of guilt drives him to repeat the act. BANG! And another criminal dies. There's no more room for doubt, he has killed two people. He goes home, doesn't talk to anyone in his family, he feels like a ghost in the fog, he cannot forgive himself, he considers writing his own name into the Death Note.

Then his neighbours invite him and his family over for dinner and it turns out that one of the hostages who escaped was his neighbor's seven year old son. His mother talks about how lucky they were that he got away safely. "It's as if God was watching over him!" She says.

And suddenly he begins to see: the life of the boy was worth more than the life of the criminal, no one would argue with him on this. Thank God the criminal had a heart attack, they say. But it wasn't God, it was him.

And then he slowly begins to see himself as a hero. He does everything within his power to NOT KILL the FBI agents, only when he is left with no other choice, does he write their names into the Death Note and surprisingly, he is doesn't feel that guilty about it. Because he _is_ God.

There are the makings of a developing, interesting character roughly sketched out. Unfortunately that wasn't what they did with his character in the anime/manga. Kira was a completel unlikeable bastard from the beginning.

Quote:

And as for kira being a complete psychopath, you see from the very beginning that he is cold and calculated, from his use of girls, the way he treats his family etc. His mind perceived it as logical for him to dispatch the fbi agents, becausewhile it is an inconvenience now, later they could have posed more of a threat. Kira never wanted to be a figure of justice, IMO, he always wanted to be a god.


Exactly, which is why the idea that Kira's original ideals or thoughts were something that any average person could understand is completely false.

That still doesn't make him a bad character. A little more development would have been nice, but he's not a bad character. L is still infinitely better, although both characters are very similar.
But still, despite Light's god complex, the notebook still corrupted him. While he was always cold and calculated, he wasn't to the point of murder. He also had to repeatedly tell himself what he was doing was justice to keep himself sane.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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28.01.2011 - 22:16
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by whatsacow on 28.01.2011 at 22:04

That still doesn't make him a bad character. A little more development would have been nice, but he's not a bad character.


Well, not completely terrible, but he was the wrong character to find the death note. I think the guy who helped him out at the end was perfect for a main character, as he started out with a strong sense of justice and slowely decended into madness. Because Light/Kira was evil from the beginning, I found him utterly boring with the exception of the times when he got really angry and made those weird noises
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28.01.2011 - 22:29
whatsacow

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 22:16

Written by whatsacow on 28.01.2011 at 22:04

That still doesn't make him a bad character. A little more development would have been nice, but he's not a bad character.


Well, not completely terrible, but he was the wrong character to find the death note. I think the guy who helped him out at the end was perfect for a main character, as he started out with a strong sense of justice and slowely decended into madness. Because Light/Kira was evil from the beginning, I found him utterly boring with the exception of the times when he got really angry and made those weird noises

And when he says in the english dub: "I'll take my potato chip AND EAT IT!"
Yeah, I did find the other guy more entertaining, but I disagree with Light being the wrong character. Maybe from a morality point of view, but the majority of death note's charm comes from logic and L and Light constantly outwitting each other.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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28.01.2011 - 22:34
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by whatsacow on 28.01.2011 at 22:29

And when he says in the english dub: "I'll take my potato chip AND EAT IT!"
Yeah, I did find the other guy more entertaining, but I disagree with Light being the wrong character. Maybe from a morality point of view, but the majority of death note's charm comes from logic and L and Light constantly outwitting each other.


I avoid english dubs like plague, they make me physically sick. That's one of the great things about Japanese animation actually, the Japanese are so good at voice acting that I never fail to feel the emotions they're trying to communicate.
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29.01.2011 - 07:03
whatsacow

Written by Guest on 28.01.2011 at 22:34

Written by whatsacow on 28.01.2011 at 22:29

And when he says in the english dub: "I'll take my potato chip AND EAT IT!"
Yeah, I did find the other guy more entertaining, but I disagree with Light being the wrong character. Maybe from a morality point of view, but the majority of death note's charm comes from logic and L and Light constantly outwitting each other.


I avoid english dubs like plague, they make me physically sick. That's one of the great things about Japanese animation actually, the Japanese are so good at voice acting that I never fail to feel the emotions they're trying to communicate.

After I watch the show with just subtitles (which are also occasionally hilarious and awefully translated) I watch the show with the dubbing and subtitles, because sometimes it is hilarious.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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04.02.2011 - 14:19
Mikyz

Light Yagami aka Kira all the way, his way of thinking and his twisted sense of justice are much more interesting than L, sure L eats a lot of sweets and has extraordinary deduction skills. But L died and Kira lived, and that says it all Kira>L.
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Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone.
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07.02.2011 - 21:15
whatsacow

Written by Mikyz on 04.02.2011 at 14:19

Light Yagami aka Kira all the way, his way of thinking and his twisted sense of justice are much more interesting than L, sure L eats a lot of sweets and has extraordinary deduction skills. But L died and Kira lived, and that says it all Kira>L.


*************************SPOILERS*********************


Wtf?! Kira didn't live? Wtf show were you watching?
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
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