Not sure if this will work out but I figure it's worth a shot... For those who are familiar with the term it usually describes BM bands with a 'religious' sort of Satanic message. Instead of your run of the mill Hail Satan lyrics they tend to write lyrics in the vein of religious texts surrounded by a (usually) raw, chaotic mix of instruments.

Orthodox Black Metal seems to be a pretty big 'trend' in Extreme metal nowadays. Bands such as Ofermod, Deathspell Omega, Funeral Mist, Countess, Glorior Belli, Averse Sefira, S.V.E.S.T. and Watain have opened this impressive wave of music.

I've heard some doubts about whether this is an actual subgenre or not, but with the big number of bands playing in the same rough style now, and the number is constantly growing, I personally don't see why not.

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 02:48

...Countess...

Countess, orthodox black metal? I don't really see the sort of satanism of the other bands in the lyrics, and a lot of them don't even deal with satanism & anti-christianity. Also the music is far from raw and chatoic. I would dare say it is more akin to Manowar than black metal at times.

Well it's a genre if people say it is, whether it's a worthy genre is another matter, sometimes I thinks it's just a cool thing to be and a tag to say "hey, we play black metal like Deathspell Omega" - remarkably similar that a genre supposedly based on religious contexts feature bands that end up sounding alike: DsO, Glorior Belli, Ofermod, Funeral Mist etc. The whole thing just sounds a bit spurious to me, misused latin et al.

Countess apparently coined the term orthodox but I don't know if it was in the same context as the others.

Personally I don't really understand the distinction between bands that were Satanic (and perceived to be serious) and those bands above who what? Practise/believe in Satanism? This is one of many reasons why I don't even bother reading band lyrics.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 11:06



Countess apparently coined the term orthodox but I don't know if it was in the same context as the others.

Yes, Jan Kik coined it but it had nothing to do with religious satanic outlooks on life. More with what he deemed first wave black metal. But how he got into a Manowar type sound still baffles me to this day. But thank God Countess isn't as bad as his first band Fallen Temple, totally horrendous that was.

Do you mean the so-called "unblack" metal?

Written by vezzy on 09.06.2010 at 14:10

Do you mean the so-called "unblack" metal?

Read the first post None of those bands are so-called "unblack"

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 09.06.2010 at 10:10

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 02:48

...Countess...

Countess, orthodox black metal? I don't really see the sort of satanism of the other bands in the lyrics, and a lot of them don't even deal with satanism & anti-christianity. Also the music is far from raw and chatoic. I would dare say it is more akin to Manowar than black metal at times.

I'm assuming that it's more of the 'coined the term' than anything. Venom coined Black Metal even though they were really just playing thrash with a satanic theme. I'd guess it's something along that line.

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 16:00

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 09.06.2010 at 10:10

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 02:48

...Countess...

Countess, orthodox black metal? I don't really see the sort of satanism of the other bands in the lyrics, and a lot of them don't even deal with satanism & anti-christianity. Also the music is far from raw and chatoic. I would dare say it is more akin to Manowar than black metal at times.

I'm assuming that it's more of the 'coined the term' than anything. Venom coined Black Metal even though they were really just playing thrash with a satanic theme. I'd guess it's something along that line.

Yeah Jan Kik (I refuse to call huim by his artist's name ) did coin the phrase as far as i can remember.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 11:06

Well it's a genre if people say it is, whether it's a worthy genre is another matter, sometimes I thinks it's just a cool thing to be and a tag to say "hey, we play black metal like Deathspell Omega" - remarkably similar that a genre supposedly based on religious contexts feature bands that end up sounding alike: DsO, Glorior Belli, Ofermod, Funeral Mist etc. The whole thing just sounds a bit spurious to me, misused latin et al.

Countess apparently coined the term orthodox but I don't know if it was in the same context as the others.

Personally I don't really understand the distinction between bands that were Satanic (and perceived to be serious) and those bands above who what? Practise/believe in Satanism? This is one of many reasons why I don't even bother reading band lyrics.

Yea, sometimes the distinction gets blurry. But when you look at the genre on a whole, it kinda starts to make sense. The 1st wave was about comic book style Satan and evil. The 2nd wave decided that a more 'serious' Satanic lifestyle was needed so they put on corpse paint and pulled grim faces. The 3rd wave (I think) has been desperately trying to pull a combination of the first and 2nd waves to bring some legitimacy back into the genre. I don't know if this Orthodox sound and message will be considered the 4th wave or not, but they on the whole seem to take their message more seriously than the 2nd wave with more 'mature' lyrics and messages about religious beliefs.

But, like you said, often that means using latin words incorrectly with a rat race to the most evil sounding album name.

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 00:00

Yea, sometimes the distinction gets blurry. But when you look at the genre on a whole, it kinda starts to make sense. The 1st wave was about comic book style Satan and evil. The 2nd wave decided that a more 'serious' Satanic lifestyle was needed so they put on corpse paint and pulled grim faces. The 3rd wave (I think) has been desperately trying to pull a combination of the first and 2nd waves to bring some legitimacy back into the genre. I don't know if this Orthodox sound and message will be considered the 4th wave or not, but they on the whole seem to take their message more seriously than the 2nd wave with more 'mature' lyrics and messages about religious beliefs.

But, like you said, often that means using latin words incorrectly with a rat race to the most evil sounding album name.

I was under the impression that the second wave was more concerned with the movement from the thrash style of Bathory, Venom etc. to the more simplistic (even punk structured), lo-fidelity production orientated works of Darkthrone, Burzum etc. rather than image or lyric. I've also frequently heard DsO and their contemporaries regarded as third wave; typically structured around better produced, more technically played and constructed black metal. I'm not a black metal history buff though, it's not the kind of thing I've ever really been bothered about enough to research but I'm not sure I agree with having a whole wave based on a specific religious viewpoint which isn't all that far removed from an existing one.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 18:59

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 00:00

Yea, sometimes the distinction gets blurry. But when you look at the genre on a whole, it kinda starts to make sense. The 1st wave was about comic book style Satan and evil. The 2nd wave decided that a more 'serious' Satanic lifestyle was needed so they put on corpse paint and pulled grim faces. The 3rd wave (I think) has been desperately trying to pull a combination of the first and 2nd waves to bring some legitimacy back into the genre. I don't know if this Orthodox sound and message will be considered the 4th wave or not, but they on the whole seem to take their message more seriously than the 2nd wave with more 'mature' lyrics and messages about religious beliefs.

But, like you said, often that means using latin words incorrectly with a rat race to the most evil sounding album name.

I was under the impression that the second wave was more concerned with the movement from the thrash style of Bathory, Venom etc. to the more simplistic (even punk structured), lo-fidelity production orientated works of Darkthrone, Burzum etc. rather than image or lyric. I've also frequently heard DsO and their contemporaries regarded as third wave; typically structured around better produced, more technically played and constructed black metal. I'm not a black metal history buff though, it's not the kind of thing I've ever really been bothered about enough to research but I'm not sure I agree with having a whole wave based on a specific religious viewpoint which isn't all that far removed from an existing one.

Of course such a classification isn't perfect, it's just a different way of looking at the majority of bands out of each respective wave. Basing waves off of their sound is probably a better way of looking at things for classification purposes, but personally that's just how I view the ideologies of each wave.

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 19:16

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 18:59

Written by Got Mayhem? on 09.06.2010 at 00:00

Yea, sometimes the distinction gets blurry. But when you look at the genre on a whole, it kinda starts to make sense. The 1st wave was about comic book style Satan and evil. The 2nd wave decided that a more 'serious' Satanic lifestyle was needed so they put on corpse paint and pulled grim faces. The 3rd wave (I think) has been desperately trying to pull a combination of the first and 2nd waves to bring some legitimacy back into the genre. I don't know if this Orthodox sound and message will be considered the 4th wave or not, but they on the whole seem to take their message more seriously than the 2nd wave with more 'mature' lyrics and messages about religious beliefs.

But, like you said, often that means using latin words incorrectly with a rat race to the most evil sounding album name.

I was under the impression that the second wave was more concerned with the movement from the thrash style of Bathory, Venom etc. to the more simplistic (even punk structured), lo-fidelity production orientated works of Darkthrone, Burzum etc. rather than image or lyric. I've also frequently heard DsO and their contemporaries regarded as third wave; typically structured around better produced, more technically played and constructed black metal. I'm not a black metal history buff though, it's not the kind of thing I've ever really been bothered about enough to research but I'm not sure I agree with having a whole wave based on a specific religious viewpoint which isn't all that far removed from an existing one.

Of course such a classification isn't perfect, it's just a different way of looking at the majority of bands out of each respective wave. Basing waves off of their sound is probably a better way of looking at things for classification purposes, but personally that's just how I view the ideologies of each wave.

This is why I think Deathspell Omega should start singing about ice cream and beating up ho's 'n' bitches and having blingin' geetarz ;] now THAT'S a wave that would get my interest.

I don't see a third wave, really. What would the Third Wave of Black metal be? Experimental bands like A Forest Of Stars and Darkspace (who are worlds apart)? Or the powerhouse, well-produced 'testosterone' Black metal of (early) Glorior Belli, Funeral Mist (Salvation era) and Deathspell Omega? Or the return-to-Darkthrone punkish Black metal acts? Or Depressive Black metal? I don't know. I'd say Black metal has a more-or-less well-defined First Wave as well as a Second Wave, which we all know, and after that... say, post-95, the genre has branched out to all directions. It's impossible to pick one branch and call it the Third Wave (and thus, making it the main new sub-sub-genre) because all genres are imo important continuations of Black metal.

As for the Orthodox Black metal movement... mostly Swedish, beefed-up and well-produced yet harsh Black metal. It thrives on pure aggression and often praises Satan/Chaos. I'm not too interested in it because I think most of it sounds rather bland. And in my opinion, it often feels like they're trying too hard to be dark and/or esoteric. I can imagine 'purists' (a.k.a. Darkcloners) calling them pretentious.

I'd never include lyrics in the process of genre-defining, though. And eh... I forgot where I was going with this post. I think I had a point, but I lost it somewhere along the highway.

Written by Lucas on 09.06.2010 at 20:14

What would the Third Wave of Black metal be? Experimental bands like A Forest Of Stars and Darkspace (who are worlds apart)? Or the powerhouse, well-produced 'testosterone' Black metal of (early) Glorior Belli, Funeral Mist (Salvation era) and Deathspell Omega? Or the return-to-Darkthrone punkish Black metal acts? Or Depressive Black metal?

I think you've inadvertantly stumbled on the third wave there, a woods from the trees kinda thing: the realisation of personal and individual styles not necessarily based on anything specific. I'd happily include that as the third wave. Of course that pretty much precludes any notion of a fourth wave, unless black metal turns to crap and everyone starts copying each other again.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 21:14

unless black metal turns to crap and everyone starts copying each other again.

Wait...this hasn't happened already?

I think that we possibly, may already have a thread on Orthodox bm but, I do like where this thread is going. For a moment there I thought I had missed the third wave when there was talk about the fourth wave lol. I have often wondered about when and what the third wave is or was, and thinking of it a bit more steadily now I think it has already kicked in and started in possibly the late 90's to early turn of the century. I'd even dare say the third wave sound may include some of the bands that were part of the second wave because, of the drastic changes in sound and line up almost made them seem like different bands.

Written by Bitter Dawn on 10.06.2010 at 00:59

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 21:14

unless black metal turns to crap and everyone starts copying each other again.

Wait...this hasn't happened already?

I often see people complaining that black metal is on a downward spiral and that it's a dying genre but I find it hard to swallow with all the unique bands in action these days. There'll always be copycat bands but I'd like to think people are becoming a bit more savvy with them; they don't really get the respect they once might have. I'd like to think that's the case anyway.

Written by Bitter Dawn on 10.06.2010 at 00:59

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 21:14

unless black metal turns to crap and everyone starts copying each other again.

Wait...this hasn't happened already?

I think that we possibly, may already have a thread on Orthodox bm

Maybe, but I tried a few different searches and nothing came up.

Got Mayhem?: Weird, ah well a fresh go on the subject will do some good I think.


!J.O.O.E.!: I was being bit of a smart ass, I know what you're saying though. There are definitely some fuckin' great bands active right now and, there's often new talent rising out of no where but, I do think the genre has gone a bit stagnant in it's own way.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2010 at 21:14

Written by Lucas on 09.06.2010 at 20:14

What would the Third Wave of Black metal be? Experimental bands like A Forest Of Stars and Darkspace (who are worlds apart)? Or the powerhouse, well-produced 'testosterone' Black metal of (early) Glorior Belli, Funeral Mist (Salvation era) and Deathspell Omega? Or the return-to-Darkthrone punkish Black metal acts? Or Depressive Black metal?

I think you've inadvertantly stumbled on the third wave there, a woods from the trees kinda thing: the realisation of personal and individual styles not necessarily based on anything specific. I'd happily include that as the third wave. Of course that pretty much precludes any notion of a fourth wave, unless black metal turns to crap and everyone starts copying each other again.

Well, if you're going to put it that way, I'd be happy to agree.