Written by Guest on 07.02.2012 at 04:16

Written by Doc G. on 07.02.2012 at 03:32

"Shame on the metalstorm staff". I'm not entirely sure what type of response you were expecting from us when you shake your finger at us after we've put a lot of time into putting this thing together. I, as well as many other staffs & elites would probably be happy to answer any questions as to why band ___ wasn't nominated in category ___, but when you approach it with a pissy tone, you're not going to get polite responses.

Are we going to bring this up again? I already told Marcel I was dropping the argument a few posts above. I can keep going if you want though.

What? 90 minutes ago? I've only been on here for the past 45-60 minutes. I felt I had a right to give answers seeing as how it's partially my work you decided to start whining about.

Everyone's happy to flex their right to complain until multiple people start responding. Don't feel like having to defend yourself? Then don't post at all, until then, be prepared for a few people to throw in their two cents about what you've said.

Written by Doc G. on 07.02.2012 at 04:23

What? 90 minutes ago? I've only been on here for the past 45-60 minutes. I felt I had a right to give answers seeing as how it's partially my work you decided to start whining about.

Everyone's happy to flex their right to complain until multiple people start responding. Don't feel like having to defend yourself? Then don't post at all, until then, be prepared for a few people to throw in their two cents about what you've said.

OK, your turn then, let's go.
First off, you are bringing posts from another topic on a different subject and trying to implement them in this forum. Here I am discussing the nature of the awards in general, not one band, which yes I'm still disappointed about, but that's irrelevant to my argument here, which is I think the MS awards should be less staff influenced and the staff influence should be saved for the staff awards.
My second argument here can basically be summed up by what IronAngel said:

Written by IronAngel on 07.02.2012 at 02:04

Discussion for the sake of discussion is the point of a message board, and the best debates are usually those you have no vested agenda in. It's a little unfair for the staff to get worked up over criticism they openly invite by accepting the job of an online journalist and proceeding to make public statements about what's good. Respect goes both ways, of course, but you have to keep in mind the asymmetrical positions of a prestigeous journalist backed by the "establishment" and able to get his voice heard on the front page, and an individual user who can easily get mobbed by that inside circle who stay loyal to eachother and the decisions they've made.

It's just the dynamics of power, whether we like it or not.

"It's a little unfair for the staff to get worked up over criticism they openly invite by accepting the job of an online journalist and proceeding to make public statements about what's good."

Now I may be mistaken but I hardly think they welcome with open arms someone belittling their methods. How do they openly invite criticism? Granted in their role they are obliged to respond to it, but it's not like they have to take every single criticism with a smile, pat on the back and say 'Sure, we'll get around to changing that right away for you'.

They aren't robots, they will make human responses to criticism just as anyone would. In this case it's a devaluing of their efforts in the awards. I'm sure if you had something on which you doled out a significant amount of effort you would get a bit annoyed if someone were to aim a criticism at it. While some understanding may be expected from their side of things, you can't expect them to be elated at all criticisms that come their way.

@BlueMobius: I think it is relevant, those posts from another topic, they are what engendered the staff response to your criticism which seems to have spilled into this thread. Now the staff may have been too hasty to throw some criticism of their own your way, but you have to account for the way you worded your opinions. What may appear like an innocent enough statement of perspective may be taken differently online to how you intended it, a simple observation can become a snide remark quite easily.
So while I believe that your intention wasn't to degrade their efforts, but simply make a harmless observation, it may have been construed into something which led to the current argument you are having to deal with. A case of mixed connections.

Well, there's a certain level of detached professionalism involved in representing an institution, online or otherwise. You get to state your opinion with publicity and prestige, so you take the flak for it as well. I'm trying not to take sides, and I think it's all been quite understandable so far. We're all human. But while Mobius's posts may have been provokative, there's a somewhat higher standard a staff member ought to hold himself to. When you become a forum moderator, you give up or at least rein in your right and urge to repond to every provocation as if you were just an individual person. I've wrestled with it many times myself when I DMed that roleplaying server and got to tell people how they're allowed or not allowed to play the game, so it's not like I'm oblivious to the frustrating dilemma of the staff. Mobius got kinda mobbed, which can be perfectly justified from the perspective of individual staff members responding to something they feel they need to address personally. But when you work as a staff standing behind your collective decision, it's usually best to drop a matter when you see one moderator has posted and there's nothing vitally important to add. That's one way to offset the asymmetry inherent in a situation where an indvidual has to face a large institution. If the imbalance seems insurmountable, the only option left is to rage against the machine. It's a pretty basic human reaction.

But I agree with you that this commotion is quite disproportionate.

Now to get back on the topic of the Awards! When is the voting gonna close? I tried looking, but I may be blind. Still got 2/3 of the categories to vote in.

Written by IronAngel on 07.02.2012 at 15:15


Now to get back on the topic of the Awards! When is the voting gonna close? I tried looking, but I may be blind. Still got 2/3 of the categories to vote in.

If I am not mistaken, in the text accompanying the Awards (so the text on the Awards front page) it says you have the entire month of February to cast your vote. SO that means until midnight of the last of February. Midnight being server time (seeing that is Estonian time that would be cet +1, so the same time as midnight in Finland)

Ouch, I'm not on MS for less than 20 hours and this thread already has 2 extra pages.

Why can't one of my reviews have that sort of popularity?

Written by Slayer666 on 07.02.2012 at 15:57
Why can't one of my reviews have that sort of popularity?

Because you're supposed to use cheap trolling and shock value to attract attention. Honesty =/= popularity.

Hell, I bet the MS Awards are all just a giant meta-troll. All the hard work and time lost is most likely worth it to watch everyone raging in the end.

Written by vezzy on 07.02.2012 at 16:04

Because you're supposed to use cheap trolling and shock value to attract attention. Honesty =/= popularity.

Hell, I bet the MS Awards are all just a giant meta-troll. All the hard work and time lost is most likely worth it to watch everyone raging in the end.

Fine, my next review will be published with a pic of my own asshole. Peter Steele already did it, and it sorta worked.

Written by vezzy on 07.02.2012 at 16:04
All the hard work and time lost is most likely worth it to watch everyone raging in the end.

Hhahahahhaha you are actually quite correct. I do know a many of us enjoy both the beginning and the end of the awards for those reasons.
Since this was my first award, I might get it a bit more personal but I think that with time (provided they don't kick me out of the elite group lols) I will just laugh at it most of the time.

Written by Slayer666 on 07.02.2012 at 16:10
Fine, my next review will be published with a pic of my own asshole. Peter Steele already did it, and it sorta worked.

You do notice how ironic* that is considering my username?

*POTENTIAL SCHMUCK BAIT. Click at own risk. I was way too nice to bait you to Goatse.

Written by IronAngel on 07.02.2012 at 15:15

But when you work as a staff standing behind your collective decision, it's usually best to drop a matter when you see one moderator has posted and there's nothing vitally important to add. That's one way to offset the asymmetry inherent in a situation where an indvidual has to face a large institution.

That is one of the things that annoys me too, and I usually steer clear off those rants when I see two or three staff/elites already tackled a troublesome post. However, I completely understand everyone who wants to drop their two cents on the issue, and as everyone worked hard on these Awards, it's completely normal that everyone would like to "defend" them and their purpose. If we had an "official" approach dealing with user complaints, that would probably mean us "newer" Elites wouldn't have a lot of say after the people higher up in rank have had theirs, so this is mostly a "each one for themselves" approach. It might be a bit more "dosed", as you say, but we aren't a "large institution" or anything. I don't think any user complaining will get warned or banned, as stupid as some of the complaints are, that would just be a silly abuse of power. We can't force agreement on users but we can explain to them the reasons behind some of our own decisions, and hope they'll see the reasons. Sometimes it gets heated, but hey, this is a forum.

In some of your earlier posts, you said something about how we're an establishment that protects each other and each other's decisions (I'm sorry if I have misunderstood you)... but in reality it's nothing like that. We do have occasional arguments, call each other out on certain issues, and we're far from having a unanimous taste really, which explains the variety of nominations. And I've seen all that during the couple of months of having Elite perms, so you can clearly see we're not some sort of a closed collective... everyone has different opinions and we try working stuff out the way we think it's best. If there is anything we all have in common, it is probably openness to other people's tastes and ideas, and a desire to work hard to make this the best metal site possible.

I am sorry for the long response.

Take a stand! Join my fight for staff-less influenced Metal Storm awards!!! Byaaaah!

Written by Guest on 08.02.2012 at 00:57

Take a stand! Join my fight for staff-less influenced Metal Storm awards!!! Byaaaah!

I'll pass.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 08.02.2012 at 02:43

I'll pass.

But don't you want boring MS awards like me? Mwahahahaha!

....This is hella weird, I got a fucked up Déjà vu shit while reading the last 3 posts.

As if we'd ever make it another one of the many staffless awards already around in the world of metal

Just noticed: after 900 votes in best black metal album category, noone mentioned Nightbringer. Weird.

Written by Koen Smits on 08.02.2012 at 13:53

Just noticed: after 900 votes in best black metal album category, noone mentioned Nightbringer. Weird.

Yeah, good point. That is rather weird, idd. Excellent (extremely underrated) band & music. "Hierophany Of The Open Grave" is an excellent release, but I'm still in awe from their first full album, which is still their best to this day, imo. But it's definitely one of the worth-while black metal releases of 2011.

Written by Guest on 08.02.2012 at 17:33

Written by Koen Smits on 08.02.2012 at 13:53

Just noticed: after 900 votes in best black metal album category, noone mentioned Nightbringer. Weird.

Yeah, good point. That is rather weird, idd. Excellent (extremely underrated) band & music. "Hierophany Of The Open Grave" is an excellent release, but I'm still in awe from their first full album, which is still their best to this day, imo. But it's definitely one of the worth-while black metal releases of 2011.

Btw, you Flemmish? You used idd
Hierophany is a decent release imo nothing brilliant or great though.

Yeah, I'm Flemish - I thought 'idd' was universal..
& yeah, I somewhat agree.. It's a bit too saturated with back-up ambience, and a bit too reminiscent of some European ortho-bm releases at some points.. + "Death And The Black Work" is a very hard release to top.

Written by Guest on 08.02.2012 at 18:03

Yeah, I'm Flemish - I thought 'idd' was universal..
& yeah, I somewhat agree.. It's a bit too saturated with back-up ambience, and a bit too reminiscent of some European ortho-bm releases at some points.. + "Death And The Black Work" is a very hard release to top.

I thought only the Flemmish and the Dutch used idd for inderdaad/indeed. But i could be wrong, though.

Metal Awards 2011: i smell the guys going "pathetically biased" towards Prog. genre. idk, and fuck! they didn't leave stone upturned discussing that it should win in Thrash Metal slab too. WTF?!

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2012 at 18:23

Metal Awards 2011: i smell the guys going "pathetically biased" towards Prog. genre. idk, and fuck! they didn't leave stone upturned discussing that it should win in Thrash Metal slab too. WTF?!

what are you on about?

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.02.2012 at 18:37

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2012 at 18:23

Metal Awards 2011: i smell the guys going "pathetically biased" towards Prog. genre. idk, and fuck! they didn't leave stone upturned discussing that it should win in Thrash Metal slab too. WTF?!

what are you on about?

wants to know why guys actually getting biased towards prog. genre??

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2012 at 18:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.02.2012 at 18:37

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2012 at 18:23

Metal Awards 2011: i smell the guys going "pathetically biased" towards Prog. genre. idk, and fuck! they didn't leave stone upturned discussing that it should win in Thrash Metal slab too. WTF?!

what are you on about?

wants to know why guys actually getting biased towards prog. genre??

oh you mean the number of votes cast there up to now?

That's probably due to the fact that a big name is there and also some other big names we didn't nom because they, well, sucked.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.02.2012 at 17:48

Hierophany is a decent release imo nothing brilliant or great though.

No, not brilliant or great (wouldn't be my choice either) but it easily could've been a "write-in"

Written by Koen Smits on 09.02.2012 at 01:17

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.02.2012 at 17:48

Hierophany is a decent release imo nothing brilliant or great though.

No, not brilliant or great (wouldn't be my choice either) but it easily could've been a "write-in"

Oh, there I absolutely agree. I was surprised to see no write in there as well. Seeing the sort of garbage some write ins are.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.02.2012 at 18:47

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2012 at 18:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 08.02.2012 at 18:37

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 08.02.2012 at 18:23

Metal Awards 2011: i smell the guys going "pathetically biased" towards Prog. genre. idk, and fuck! they didn't leave stone upturned discussing that it should win in Thrash Metal slab too. WTF?!

what are you on about?

wants to know why guys actually getting biased towards prog. genre??

oh you mean the number of votes cast there up to now?

yeah and even guys out here normally discusses about that only.