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The original post

Posted by slinx on 24.02.2012 at 10:10
I'm pretty drunk, so feel free to delete this, but this is something I've been meaning to ask for a while.

All metal is alternative to mainstream culture, so why is this different from other metal? Hell, this 'alternative' metal may be the most recognized metal on the radio to the non-exclusive metal listener.

Heavy Metal is the most basic (starting point) for all metal and most likely contains the most fans. Followed by thrash and power in terms of popularity; these groups are pretty mainstream for metal music.

Death metal or at least metal with harsh vocals fills up a smaller segment than either heavy, thrash or power and definitely has less fans than any of the previous music choices (though this site may differ).

Black metal, which puts death metal to shame with its creepiness, is even further away from the mainstream culture, or fuck, even the mainstream metal culture.

So shouldn't black metal and death metal be labeled alternative metal? Or is alternative metal, the alternative of 'true \ underground metal'?

Thank you. Donuts and roses for all.



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deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 5836
From: Australia

  19.03.2015 at 00:46
I never understood the Trivium/A7F isn't metal idiocy. They're metal through and through. If they're not metal well then neither is At The Gates or Dark Tranquillity or old In Flames.
Ganondox

Posts: 590

Age: 18
From: USA

  22.03.2015 at 00:25
Written by deadone on 19.03.2015 at 00:46

I never understood the Trivium/A7F isn't metal idiocy. They're metal through and through. If they're not metal well then neither is At The Gates or Dark Tranquillity or old In Flames.


Some A7x songs are better described as hard rock than metal, but that's about it, they're still a metal band.
deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 5836
From: Australia

  22.03.2015 at 00:32
Written by Ganondox on 22.03.2015 at 00:25


Some A7x songs are better described as hard rock than metal, but that's about it, they're still a metal band.


Yup. If having some rock songs makes one a rock band despite mainly playing metal, then virtually most metal is rock! I do find it hilarious that people assert Motorhead is 100% metal despite obviously playing shitloads of punk, hard rock and even old fashioned rock n roll and then say Trivium or A7X aren't metal. Morons!
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 2216

Age: 29
From: Australia

  22.03.2015 at 10:48
Written by deadone on 22.03.2015 at 00:32

Written by Ganondox on 22.03.2015 at 00:25


Some A7x songs are better described as hard rock than metal, but that's about it, they're still a metal band.


Yup. If having some rock songs makes one a rock band despite mainly playing metal, then virtually most metal is rock! I do find it hilarious that people assert Motorhead is 100% metal despite obviously playing shitloads of punk, hard rock and even old fashioned rock n roll and then say Trivium or A7X aren't metal. Morons!

Even Lemmy says they're more rock n roll and punk than metal.
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ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3369

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  23.03.2015 at 11:38
I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?
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"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
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Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 4132

Age: 25
From: India

  23.03.2015 at 12:11
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 11:38

I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?


Metal.
----
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3369

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  23.03.2015 at 13:41
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.03.2015 at 12:11

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 11:38

I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?


Metal.

but isnt the metal already alternative form or rock?
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Ganondox

Posts: 590

Age: 18
From: USA

  23.03.2015 at 21:39
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 13:41

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.03.2015 at 12:11

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 11:38

I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?


Metal.

but isnt the metal already alternative form or rock?


No. You need to go back the 80s, which was when the term alternative rock became a thing. Metal was mainstream, alternative was the rock that WASN'T metal.
deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 5836
From: Australia

  21.04.2015 at 04:53
Written by Ganondox on 23.03.2015 at 21:39

No. You need to go back the 80s, which was when the term alternative rock became a thing. Metal was mainstream, alternative was the rock that WASN'T metal.



It was alternative to glam metal, mainstream rock and pop music. In the mid-1980s most extremer metal was still fairly underground albeit with a growing popularity in the the thrash scene.

The band that truly brought alternative rock into the mainstream was Nirvana, and they had considerable underground metal influences including Celtic Frost, Voivod, Mercyful Fate and Venom as well as more mainstream Black Sabbath.
Ganondox

Posts: 590

Age: 18
From: USA

  21.04.2015 at 07:01
Written by deadone on 21.04.2015 at 04:53

Written by Ganondox on 23.03.2015 at 21:39

No. You need to go back the 80s, which was when the term alternative rock became a thing. Metal was mainstream, alternative was the rock that WASN'T metal.



It was alternative to glam metal, mainstream rock and pop music. In the mid-1980s most extremer metal was still fairly underground albeit with a growing popularity in the the thrash scene.

The band that truly brought alternative rock into the mainstream was Nirvana, and they had considerable underground metal influences including Celtic Frost, Voivod, Mercyful Fate and Venom as well as more mainstream Black Sabbath.


Extreme metal wasn't considered alternative rock either (was it too underground to even be considered an alternative?), so it still stands that alternative rock was the rock that wasn't metal. If by mainstream rock you're referring to something like Van Halen, that would fall in the "metal" category, but obviously I was making a generalization, there was plenty of popular rock that wasn't metal.

Yeah, Nirvana was metal influenced, but they didn't get big until the 90's, which is after the scope I gave. That's really what musically set the grunge bands apart from the rest of alternative rock, they were based in the alternative rock scene, but took influence from metal as well punk.
deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 5836
From: Australia

  21.04.2015 at 07:45
Written by Ganondox on 21.04.2015 at 07:01


Extreme metal wasn't considered alternative rock either (was it too underground to even be considered an alternative?), so it still stands that alternative rock was the rock that wasn't metal. If by mainstream rock you're referring to something like Van Halen, that would fall in the "metal" category, but obviously I was making a generalization, there was plenty of popular rock that wasn't metal.


By mainstream rock I meant stuff like INXS, Billy Idol, U2, Bruce Springsteen, Genesis as well as stuff with some metal components like Bon Jovi, Extreme, Poison, Whitesnake and Van Halen.
Ganondox

Posts: 590

Age: 18
From: USA

  22.04.2015 at 09:54
Written by deadone on 21.04.2015 at 07:45

Written by Ganondox on 21.04.2015 at 07:01


Extreme metal wasn't considered alternative rock either (was it too underground to even be considered an alternative?), so it still stands that alternative rock was the rock that wasn't metal. If by mainstream rock you're referring to something like Van Halen, that would fall in the "metal" category, but obviously I was making a generalization, there was plenty of popular rock that wasn't metal.


By mainstream rock I meant stuff like INXS, Billy Idol, U2, Bruce Springsteen, Genesis as well as stuff with some metal components like Bon Jovi, Extreme, Poison, Whitesnake and Van Halen.


Pretty sure U2 and Billy Idol still get lumped with alternative rock despite being popular.

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