‹‹ Back to the General metal forum
Posts: 21  
Users visited: 106  
Search this topic:  


deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3802
From: Australia

  14.01.2014 at 04:49
Is it just me or is the underground scene getting too big to trawl through?

Seems that there is so many more labels than before and a lot more self released stuff these days. It would make sense the scene bigger due to the net (e.g. Youtube, Bandcamp) and the growth of metal in Asia, Middle East and elsewhere.

One might say that's a good thing, but I've found it's a chore trawling through tons of crap to get anything decent.


And the results are far too often mediocre. Why buy a mediocre band that sounds like Morbid Angel or Exodus when I can just listen to Morbid Angel or Exodus?

Last time I found something really good in the underground was Switchblade's Invictus Infinitum in 2009 and the last truly awesome stuff I found in the underground was Frightmare' Bringing Back The Bloodshed in 2006 on Razorback Records. Superb thrashy Death Metal if any one wants to check them out.


The other thing I've noticed over the years is the larger labels are getting a lot more diversified which makes it difficult to trawl again. In the past you knew roughly what genre say Century Media, Roadrunner, Nuclear Blast and Earache were mainly specialising in.

Looking for new music shouldn't be such hard work.


It was a lot easier when the scene was smaller and the fellows at Century Media, Nuclear Blast and Earache simply spoon fed me my audio crack.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18579
From: Canada

  14.01.2014 at 05:07
All I know is the more music there is to search for the better chance I have of finding my new favorite album. I take no issue with the "effort" required to search for quality music, and actually prefer the growing amount of underground acts to sift through rather than having the most popular labels push a bunch of crap on me.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
Boxcar Willy
*sigh*

Posts: 7221

Age: 17
From: Canada

  14.01.2014 at 05:09
You don't even know the underground, bub.
----
forever bummed out
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3802
From: Australia

  14.01.2014 at 05:50
Written by Boxcar Willy on 14.01.2014 at 05:09

You don't even know the underground, bub.


Not much these days!

In the mid-naughties I was really into the underground.

I was even co-owner in a label: Dead Pawn Productions, which my partner at the time then renamed Pawn Productions.

http://www.metal-archives.com/labels/Pawn/8769#label_tabs_albums

http://www.metal-archives.com/labels/Dead_Pawn/7220


We did a split, some demos and a compilation featuring mainly 10th rate bands from around the world. I found it to be a money sink and got out of it.

After a while I figured a lot of the underground stuff I was getting into was just a poor version of "popular/famous" stuff (e.g. Mithras' first album sounded like 3rd rate Morbid Angel) and so I got rid of it and just kept listening to the "popular/famous" stuff.

These days whenever I listen to something underground it's usually not worth the effort (Iron Reagan being an exception).
LLTNF
Account deleted
  14.01.2014 at 05:51
I do think metal suffers from the "too many bands" syndrome as there are countless (well, I guess not countless - the Metal Archives says there's nearly 100,000 metal bands out there) copycats, rip-offs, nostalgic acts, tribute acts and the like. I tend to be of the mentality that Deadone expressed above - why listen to some new band that sounds like Morbid Angel when I could just listen to Morbid Angel? Metal more or less peaked in the 90s creatively in my opinion - the bases, at that point, were pretty much covered. Thrash metal had been pushed to its natural limitations, death metal grew and effectively expanded its palette (successfully and unsuccessfully), black metal was raw and grim and metal (no The Cure or Slowdive wannabes back then) and power metal was lovingly nurtured in the 90s by Germany. Once the 2000s rolled around things just started to feel a lot more cliché, bland and standardized.

I understand that my mentality is rather "old school" and that many metalheads today would swear there's tons of innovation happening on the dark side of Opeth or whatever but it's just not my thing. Most metal that comes out today feels insincere, being too plastic and emotionally blasé to strike a chord or an interest with me. I will keep my lovely old stuff.
Mattybu
#Kony2012

Posts: 2303
From: Canada

  14.01.2014 at 05:58
I understand your views on this, deadone. I would hardly call myself someone who gravitates towards "underground" stuff as far as metal goes (I guess on the stage of popular music in general a large deal of what metalheads consider mainstream is fairly "underground" though...) but it is a little overwhelming how much sheer stuff is out there. In a way I guess it's a shame because the true gems just get buried deeper and deeper as the mass amount of stuff gets larger.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3802
From: Australia

  14.01.2014 at 06:10
Written by Mattybu on 14.01.2014 at 05:58

...the true gems just get buried deeper and deeper as the mass amount of stuff gets larger.


This comment hits the nail on the head perfectly.

I'd hate to be a record label A&R guy these days.

LLTNF, I agree with your post as well.
no one

Posts: 2118

Age: 31
From: New Zealand

  14.01.2014 at 06:27
I do find there is a lot of bands to sift through to find a gem, but that's nothing to complain about. Sifting through all these bands is a leisure to me, it's more of an effort to keep hearing about the same old bands over and over. Bury them i say and let the underground grow (laughing smiley)
Karlabos
<insert title>

Posts: 1469

Age: 26
From: Brazil

  14.01.2014 at 22:18
Written by deadone on 14.01.2014 at 04:49

Is it just me or is the underground scene getting too big to trawl through?

It sure is bigger, (or at least "seems" bigger, due to the internet, I don't know exactly) but is far from being "too" big. I think the bigger the better, because the more chances are to find something awesome.

Written by deadone on 14.01.2014 at 04:49

One might say that's a good thing, but I've found it's a chore trawling through tons of crap to get anything decent.

I can't exactly say I disagree, because I think it's due to musical preferences. The underground scene is overflowing with good things when it comes to my favorite genres nowadays, I ain't even trying that hard, the good bands just keep coming to me. I have a huge list of to hear bands that I haven't touched yet, also a pretty large "to find for download" list of bands that are so underground that I couldn't find a link and I keep finding things I want pretty easily.
But I believe it could be different for other genre preferences, as there are some genres that became a bit stagnated through the years

Written by deadone on 14.01.2014 at 04:49

The other thing I've noticed over the years is the larger labels are getting a lot more diversified which makes it difficult to trawl again. In the past you knew roughly what genre say Century Media, Roadrunner, Nuclear Blast and Earache were mainly specialising in.

Looking for new music shouldn't be such hard work.


Well now I'm gonna have to disagree, really? Hard work? Nowadays we have youtube and the internet. I don't even know how I came to know good metal bands when I didn't have internet at home. I remember I went to a store that was very far from home, because they would let the user rent a CD for hearing for one day for like $1. I would have to judge the good from the bad ones by the cover, then rent a couple bands and hear them at home. Now THAT was hard work.
Today you type a band on youtube, if you didn't like it you can type other. It can take a little time to find exactly what you want, but nothing compared as it was before.
----
( ˘ﮦ ᴗ ˘ﮦ) ♪ '
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3802
From: Australia

  15.01.2014 at 00:32
Written by Karlabos on 14.01.2014 at 22:18


Well now I'm gonna have to disagree, really? Hard work? Nowadays we have youtube and the internet. I don't even know how I came to know good metal bands when I didn't have internet at home. I remember I went to a store that was very far from home, because they would let the user rent a CD for hearing for one day for like $1. I would have to judge the good from the bad ones by the cover, then rent a couple bands and hear them at home. Now THAT was hard work.


I agree in some ways it's easier. I've found the Net great for hunting old stuff I might've missed or checking out new bigger stuff.


Back in the olden days of the 1990s, Century Media, Nuclear Blast, Earache, Relapse, Music For Nations, Black Mark and Peaceville were "underground" (mainstream was Nirvana, Metallica, Guns N Roses and then Korn and the like).



Most of these labels specialised in a genre (albeit all had exceptions). Hence it was easier to follow the scene and in particular to cherry pick the bits you liked.


Nuclear Blast - Death Metal in early 1990s and then Melodic DM/Symphonic BM in late 1990s.

Peaceville - Death Doom - My Dying Bride, Anathema, Paradise Lost as well as Black Metal (Dark Throne, Cradle of Filth)

Earache - Grindcore and Death Metal (and Godflesh).

Century Media - modern more melodic metal ala Iced Earth, Jag Panzer and Nevermore as well as melodic DM later.

Black Mark - Death Metal and Bathory.

Relapse - Death Metal followed by wierder stuff later on in 1990s

Roadrunner - Death Metal by early 90s and then groove metal.

SPV Steamhammer - old school stuff

Metal Blade - Thrash then Death

In the 1980s you also had labels Noise (Thrash Metal), Combat and Roadrunner was known for Thrash bands in late 80s.



Today the labels are nowhere near as specialised. E.g. Candlelight no longer are known just for Black Metal. Willowtip is the only one that comes to mind for specialisation.


And there's so many labels now. In the old days labels used to piggy back their distribution off bigger ones. This doesn't seem to happen as much these days with many opting for self distribution.


[b]The labels used to act as a quality filter.[b] You knew the stuff getting on say Nuclear Blast was pretty good European DM (e.g. Pungent Stench, Dismember). Hence it was pretty safe getting a Nuclear Blast album cause you knew it was pretty good Death Metal.

This doesn't happen much nowadays. I have no idea what I'm getting from most of the labels.

Quote:
Today you type a band on youtube, if you didn't like it you can type other. It can take a little time to find exactly what you want, but nothing compared as it was before.


How do you even know what name to type in? There's so much stuff out there.


Whose got the time to trawl through it? And it seems pointless listening to dozens of crap bands to get the one true unique gem.

I like to listen to music for enjoyment and don't want to make it a chore finding something I like.
LLTNF
Account deleted
  15.01.2014 at 02:30
I agree about the bit concerning labels as most metal labels thesedays are kind of like "a jack of all trades" and have artists of all varieties. I am sure a lot of this has to do with staying competitive and relevant in the ever-changing and evolving music market but, yeah, I do miss the days of being able to blindly buy an album because of the label it was on.

I am not a fan of trying to find artists via YouTube either, it feels kind of insincere and cheap. Many of us, at one point or another, bought albums solely based on the cover artwork. Heck, there were even many albums I disdained when I first got them but because that was the one new CD I was going to get for a couple weeks I would spend time with it and grow to really like it and, in some cases, love it. YouTube feeds a more impulsive, incomplete listening experience whereas taking in a full album is, to me, a more rewarding and complete experience. I understand that some people want to just quickly look stuff up to get an idea but first impressions can be quite deceiving so I am personally not a fan.

Heh, I remember at one point picking up literally every Century Black (Century Media's short-lived black metal line) release I could find since they distributed a lot of the black metal classics here in the US.
Apothecary
The Avantgardist

Posts: 1748

Age: 21
From: USA

  15.01.2014 at 03:56
I don't think there's really any choice as to whether or not the underground scene is large, it's just inevitably bound to happen. Naturally, there are always going to be more bands out there doing their own thing independent of more mainstream circles than there will be bands that make it big, have a large fanbase, and are widely known. As the Vulcan saying goes: "The higher, the fewer"
Also, totally agree with what Troy said: the more underground bands you sort through, the more likely you are to find something you enjoy. Shoot a bunch of bullets at a target, and one is bound to hit. In a way I think it makes it fun: you discover some bands you don't care for, some that are halfway decent, and some that you go completely apeshit over and end up fellating for the rest of your life
MS is probably the best site for this because it combines an intense focus on underground scenes with individual user profiles. I honestly wouldn't know half the bands I do today had I never signed up.
----
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs."
-Salvador Dali
Apothecary
The Avantgardist

Posts: 1748

Age: 21
From: USA

  15.01.2014 at 04:13
Written by Guest on 14.01.2014 at 05:51

I understand that my mentality is rather "old school" and that many metalheads today would swear there's tons of innovation happening on the dark side of Opeth or whatever but it's just not my thing. Most metal that comes out today feels insincere, being too plastic and emotionally blasé to strike a chord or an interest with me. I will keep my lovely old stuff.

Nothing wrong with an oldschool mentality
Although I do suggest you dig deep into some more recent black and doom metal, I think I can quite objectively say that those are the two subgenres where the most experimentation and boundary-pushing is occurring these days.
----
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs."
-Salvador Dali
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3623

Age: 27
From: USA

  15.01.2014 at 05:39
Nothing wrong with an old-school mentality, so's long as you don't repeat the same grades over and over again.

Written by Mattybu on 14.01.2014 at 05:58

...the true gems just get buried deeper and deeper as the mass amount of stuff gets larger.


I've actually been finding out that, in most cases, if they're stuck in the underground, they kinda deserve to stay there. The underground is overrated as fuck, ironically.

In actuality, the only post I remotely agree with on this thread is Troy. The effort of finding good shit is half the fun, but there's more bad shit than good shit underground. That's why I like waiting to see if the Overground spawns new bands or not. More often than not, they're at least good enough to make it above ground.
----
REPUBLICAN CAR!
Karlabos
<insert title>

Posts: 1469

Age: 26
From: Brazil

  15.01.2014 at 14:32
Written by deadone on 15.01.2014 at 00:32

How do you even know what name to type in? There's so much stuff out there.
Whose got the time to trawl through it? And it seems pointless listening to dozens of crap bands to get the one true unique gem.
I like to listen to music for enjoyment and don't want to make it a chore finding something I like.

Well, if you really can't stand lurking for bands on the internet, that's why the recommendation forums (like this one) are there. You can find lists of bands, people that share your taste, etc, and sort of let them do the hard work. =P
As for me, I like the hunting, and if I have to go through hundreds of bad bands to find a gem, I still think it's worth it. But even if liking the process or not is also a matter of taste, I still think it's pretty easier to trust on your ears to find a band you like than to trust the record labels. I never paid too much attention on labels, even before the internet. But even if it happened what you say, I doubt that for instance on a death metal specialized label you would pick a band there at random and always find a death metal album you liked.

Written by Guest on 15.01.2014 at 02:30

I am not a fan of trying to find artists via YouTube either, it feels kind of insincere and cheap. Many of us, at one point or another, bought albums solely based on the cover artwork. Heck, there were even many albums I disdained when I first got them but because that was the one new CD I was going to get for a couple weeks I would spend time with it and grow to really like it and, in some cases, love it. YouTube feeds a more impulsive, incomplete listening experience whereas taking in a full album is, to me, a more rewarding and complete experience. I understand that some people want to just quickly look stuff up to get an idea but first impressions can be quite deceiving so I am personally not a fan.

Yeah, that's one issue about youtube searching. Before internet I also would hear the same album till it grew on me, thing I do very rarely nowadays, because I often search for stuff that appeals awesome at the first sight. But comparing the bands that I like nowadays with the ones I liked more than ten years ago, I must say I'm enjoying the new ones better. It could be that my taste changed, but it could also mean that the ones I liked before were actually not that special, but I used to listen to them because they were the only ones I could get.
Anyway, more one time I think it's important to get recs on lists, forums and stuff. Because if you ask for something specific and are recommended something you already heard
but (thought you) didn't like, then you can always give a second hear or so..
----
( ˘ﮦ ᴗ ˘ﮦ) ♪ '
LLTNF
Account deleted
  15.01.2014 at 15:00
I think hunting for music becomes somewhat of a personal preference. I am at the point of my musical evolution/exploration where I would rather spend most of my listening time listening to albums and artists I know I already enjoy. Really, there's so much stuff I adore now that I feel like I don't even have enough time to listen to all of it let alone trying to find new artists. As I've stated before, I prefer metal of a generally older ilk at this point (with a few exceptions, of course) so if I am going to do some underground exploration it's probably going to be from the 80s or maybe the 90s. There's certainly a lot of albums I could never get ahold of when I was younger that I've only heard recently so, in that sense, it's fun to explore the things unavailable in the past in some way but, overall, I will usually spend time with the things I already enjoy and appreciate. I think this is different for everyone, insofar as how many bands someone wants in their library, how many subgenres, how many variations of the same general sound/genre/sub-genre and so on.

Apothecary, I have checked out numerous modern black and doom metal bands and wasn't all that excited by any of them admittedly. There seems to be more experimentation going on in black metal but the experimentation seems to be rooted in other non-metal genres and it all sounds like the stuff that was popular when I was in high school (groups like Slowdive, Joy Division, Chapterhouse, Ride and so on) - I disliked it then and I dislike it now so the whole "post-black metal" thing isn't my bag. I am more of a thrash and death guy and when the fancy strikes me for doom I usually take up old Solitude Aeturnus or Candlemass; as for black metal, I am more into the proto/first wave stuff than the explosion that happened in Norway in the early 90s so, yeah, the newer stuff usually doesn't interest me much. I respect the bands for experimenting but you won't catch me listening to much (or any) of it. The newer doom stuff I have heard seems to be very retro, just trying to sound like either Black Sabbath or Candlemass and if I am in the mood for either of the aforementioned I will just listen to the aforementioned, haha.
mz

Posts: 2384

Age: 24


  15.01.2014 at 18:19
Written by Karlabos on 14.01.2014 at 22:18

... I ain't even trying that hard, the good bands just keep coming to me. I have a huge list of to hear bands that I haven't touched yet, also a pretty large "to find for download" list of bands that are so underground that I couldn't find a link and I keep finding things I want pretty easily.



That's exactly my status, too.
Also, I think that checking new bands/album isn't that hard when you have youtube/bancamp. One can easily judge an album based on one or two tracks most of the time.
----
Giving my ears a rest from music.
Dentura
Shadow King

Posts: 1143

Age: 20
From: USA

  18.01.2014 at 03:17
The underground is only as big as you allow it to get. The more bands you discover, the bigger the underground itself seems.
----
...And so death to the falsity of thy former rulers. Thy kingdom of "heaven" burns in a field of fire, and Dentura is the one true God thou must yield thy hearts and souls to in absolute submission. It is his ultimate decree and will unto thee..
Infernal Eternal

Posts: 531

Age: 100
From: Greece

  26.01.2014 at 13:56
The underground has really become too big to handle. The vicious art of copy-catting had an impact on that.
----
www.carnagedeathmetal.de - Awesome Fanzine
Jtbmetal123

Posts: 332

Age: 23
From: USA

  05.02.2014 at 17:51
With the internet and weebsites like Youtube, Soundcloud and torrents. Underground has opened up to a whole new world. Its still under ground. Just easier and more available.
God of shadows

Posts: 76

Age: 22
From: Sweden

  06.02.2014 at 01:15
I think it's great that the underground is this huge, so much easier to search and find something I like. Only problem is that since I'm a collector of cds(and partly vinyls) there's sometimes bands that hasn't released anything physical.
I actually prefer underground bands in front of the more popular ones, even if there is many good popular ones as well. And I think it's great that the underground is as big as it is, so you will at least find a couple of good bands from a genre(or a subsubsubgenre). A pretty recent example is when I started to listen to a few funeral doom bands(Abysmal Growls Off Despair and Solemn They Await), and even if it seems for me being few enjoying that genre, I've found a new ground to explore plenty of new stuff.

Nevertheless I've also found out new bands the "oldschool" way, testing new albums bought from stores. It's especially easy when you can see what kind of music it is just by looking at the bandlogo and the albumart, or else I would buy stuff from (somewhat) local stores.

Personally I prefer searching for new bands online, less risky and you have an advantage of having more info about the release just a few clicks away, but I can totally understand why one prefer buying from a store or a record shop, one of my favourite bands was found through this way tbh.

Another sad thing is that even if the underground band does have a record label behind them and have released a few copies in physical format you still cannot find them in an irl store or an online store, which is a harsh reminder(at least for me) when you see some of your favourite bands getting more noticed, but still not enough recognition as you can find them in online/irl stores.
----
"Everything will be ok
I'll just sit down and watch some bullshit"
-Acrania

Advertise on Metal Storm


Login or register to post here.



Similar topics

Forum Topic Similarity Started
Metal arena The 'Big Four' Of Power Metal ? (Just For Fun) 4.5 10.06.2011 by ZGoten
Extreme metal forum The Drip -some tasty grindcore that's just been signed by Relapse 4 04.03.2014 by deadone
News The Big Four: Live From Sonisphere - More DVD Details Surfacing 3.5 15.08.2010 by Valentin B
News The Big Teutonic 4 - To Play Beastival Festival 2013 3.5 14.12.2012 by Valentin B
News The Big Four - German Show Announced 3.5 17.02.2011 by Captain Obvious