Probably wins on the political front because it's a lot more rooted in what's going on than just saying "politicians bad", or even worse, sampling the "I'm mad as hell" bit from Network.

I'm really surprised nobody thought of the cross/police stick thing before.

Written by RaduP on 24.10.2020 at 20:27

Probably wins on the political front because it's a lot more rooted in what's going on than just saying "politicians bad", or even worse, sampling the "I'm mad as hell" bit from Network.

I'm really surprised nobody thought of the cross/police stick thing before.

Yeah i think that is a really cool cover

Written by RaduP on 24.10.2020 at 20:27

Probably wins on the political front because it's a lot more rooted in what's going on than just saying "politicians bad", or even worse, sampling the "I'm mad as hell" bit from Network.

I'm really surprised nobody thought of the cross/police stick thing before.

I don't know about all that. "I can't breathe" is a lie as much as "hands up don't shoot" was. And how are we still calling Z&A black metal. Most of the stuff is more alt rock to me than metal. I've only heard a few songs off here but the only one that sounded like BM was Tuskegee, which was a good song. Still think the band is overrated, Danzig was mixing blues and gospel with metal 30 years ago.

Shitty gimmick band for the Vice crowd/scene tourists. Absolutely nothing black metal about this.

Written by UnknownCheese on 24.10.2020 at 23:48

Shitty gimmick band for the Vice crowd/scene tourists. Absolutely nothing black metal about this.

It's black metal in the same way that Deafhaven is, i.e. hipster black metal, or black metal for people who don't like or want to try and get into real black metal.

The whole reactionary "police brutality" narrative this album pushes would be a lot more impactful if statistics and reality actually backed it up.

They don't.

Anyway... I thought that this band's sophomore album had some great moments. Since then, however, all they've done is ride the gimmick and pump out a bunch of boring music. This album was no different.

Written by Aries Rising on 24.10.2020 at 23:23

"I can't breathe" is a lie as much as "hands up don't shoot" was

While I've found Z&A a lot less interesting ever since Devil Is Fine myself and do (slightly) agree that it's embraced contemporary social trends much harder on a thematic level since then, this just borders on the delusional

Educating you on reality is not my job. Please do some research on the number of people in America (not merely black / POC) who have been choked to death and shot in the back by police, especially within the past 10 years, before you go shooting your mouth off with this nonsense that reeks of self serving conspiracy theory

(This thread isn't devolving into a political debate btw, so reply and quote back if you'd like but this is the first and last response you're getting out of me)

God, this thread is depressing so far

I quite like all the Z&A albums, although I do feel the whole idea is getting a bit stale at the moment. Musically this is underwhelming compared to Stranger Fruit and all the previous albums I think. There is no song here that instantly grips you like "A Spiritual", "Come On Down" or "Gravedigger's Chant".

Regardless of the specific narratives that have their basis in fabrication or exaggeration, the overall theme of police brutality is a significant topic of discussion and one that serves as a great source of inspiration for many people in the artistic community. You don't have to be black or align yourself with movements like BLM in order for these things to affect you or be worthy of your attention and criticism, much in the same way you don't have to be a white supremacist to show your support of law enforcement.

Unfortunately for Z&A this time around, it seems the well has run dry. That usually happens when the focus is narrowed in more on the message than the music, but previous releases have proven that balance with this project is possible.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 25.10.2020 at 07:19

Written by Aries Rising on 24.10.2020 at 23:23

"I can't breathe" is a lie as much as "hands up don't shoot" was

While I've found Z&A a lot less interesting ever since Devil Is Fine myself and do (slightly) agree that it's embraced contemporary social trends much harder on a thematic level since then, this just borders on the delusional

Educating you on reality is not my job. Please do some research on the number of people in America (not merely black / POC) who have been choked to death and shot in the back by police, especially within the past 10 years, before you go shooting your mouth off with this nonsense that reeks of self serving conspiracy theory

(This thread isn't devolving into a political debate btw, so reply and quote back if you'd like but this is the first and last response you're getting out of me)

That's not my point. The instances that coined those phrases turned out to be lies, doesn't take away from police brutality. The latest situation for example, Breonna Taylor. All people are talking about is the BLM narrative when the real issue is that no-knock raids are getting people killed and should be stopped. Maybe I should have been more clear in my original statement and for that lack of clarity, I apologize.

Written by Aries Rising on 26.10.2020 at 22:14

That's not my point. The instances that coined those phrases turned out to be lies, doesn't take away from police brutality. The latest situation for example, Breonna Taylor. All people are talking about is the BLM narrative when the real issue is that no-knock raids are getting people killed and should be stopped. Maybe I should have been more clear in my original statement and for that lack of clarity, I apologize.

You do have a point that a lot of these issues concerning police brutality aren't necessarily related to race. Most of the victims of police brutality in the USA are not black. But it's pretty clear that it disproportionately affects black people, from longer sentences for the same crime, more police shootings (regardless if they are armed or not), being more likely to be stopped-and-frisked, stopped in traffic, to get force used against them, to be arrested for the same drugs (or to have two penalties for the same drug if one of them is more used by them), to have their assets seized by police, to get wrongly convicted, to get higher bails set, and to have their generational wealth diminished. And also "some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses" to the point that the FBI is investigating the ties. Here's a nifty database of public Facebook posts by police officers. Have at it.

I know how getting hit with a "do your own research, I'm not here to educate you" can feel a bit disheartening and confrontational. I hope I was of help to ease things a bit.

Also in regards to how those instances were lies, even if George Floyd already said he couldn't breathe before he got pinned to the ground (actually before he even got to the car), something tells me it wasn't a good idea to use a "discouraged" maneuver to hold your knee on a man's neck for 8 minutes until he dies.

But yeah, the War On Drugs must be stopped, proactive policing must diminish, and the military-industrial complex must be dismantled. And that's regardless of the race of the people it affects. Especially since they're not here to protect anyone.

Written by Aries Rising on 26.10.2020 at 22:14

That's not my point. The instances that coined those phrases turned out to be lies, doesn't take away from police brutality. The latest situation for example, Breonna Taylor. All people are talking about is the BLM narrative when the real issue is that no-knock raids are getting people killed and should be stopped. Maybe I should have been more clear in my original statement and for that lack of clarity, I apologize.

Well I apologize for any abrasiveness on my end, then. I just see way too much denial of the facts behind real incidents of police killings/brutalizing of unarmed people regularly on social media, it's starting to make me a little more snappy towards comments that come off that way. Hope you can understand without any ill will.

I get your point about the broader issue of focusing on how police brutality is an issue that really supercedes race, but, as Radu so eloquently put it above me, I personally think that sometimes when you choose to focus on the issue from that broader perspective, you sometimes end up doing something of a disservice to the people most disproportionately affected by it who tend to bear the brunt of the aggression, which (at least in America) tend to be people of color. It's the BLM vs "All Lives Matter" argument, basically. The fact that police brutality is an issue that adversely affects people of all races and ethnicities shouldn't dismiss the fact that there's something of a discrepancy between how adversely certain ethnicities are affected by it compared to others, and vice versa. There is some balance to be maintained between the group perspective and the more narrow racial perspective, I think.

Anyway,

Gave my first listen to this tonight. I agree that at this point it's hard to even call it BM anymore, it's more of a dark, esoteric alternative rock or something, maybe a shade of Gothic here and there even. Still enjoyed though, but not nearly as much as the debut or Devil Is Fine.

I think it's unfair to label this band as hipster black metal just because it does not follow the traditional song writing structure of "real" black metal bands. Black metal is one of the few metal genres where a lot of innovation is seen in the recent times, Z&A is a shining example in that front. This may piss off a lot of BM elitists but I personally believe this is one of the most positive directions is which metal has taken a turn and I, for one, am all for it.

Nazi scum be triggered!