Weird how the label is trying to pass off child pornography as a victimless crime. Sure, Dagon is the real victim, not the actual kids being exploited.

Was wondering when the shitstorm will begin with this band/guy and here it is. Didn't take that long.

Both sides needs to chill though. Dagon is a nutcrack, what he did is mind-boggling, morally wrong and inexcusable. However he admitted his guilt, he is not a registered sex offender and IIRC he was under probation for a few years to monitor his behavior. The guy hasn't done anything deplorable for the next 10+ years (that we know of). At least in the eyes of the law he is rehabilitated.

Agonia Records smelled some profit to be made, cause Inquisition has a decent following, regardless of Dagon's past and they allowed them to jump the bandwagon.

And anyway, why are we so surprised? These are the typical BM shenanigans. Church burnings, Nazi salutes and support, white supremacy man bad (black supremacy man good though in these days) and other such sociopathic behavior has been a staple in this scene, full of misfits, assholes, low quality human material who blame society for their own shortcomings. Dagon is not the first nor the last in this scene who has a thing for toddlers.

Agonia should have expected that this would happen. They should have prepared a better response beforehand. They completely lost the plot when they said that Dagon is "most likely the only person that got hurt in process", I mean they cannot be fucking serious. Watching this stuff makes it okay because you are not hurting kids? But kids are being hurt for you to be able to watch that shit. It is not the same as being engaged in the actual act but being a "viewing customer" is pretty despicable in itself.

All that said, if all this is true it means that Dagon is a sick person and I hope the treatment he got helped him. But I cannot explain what the fuck Agonia was thinking when they tweeted all this. They shot themselves and Inquisition in the foot.

By the way, Season Of Mist may have booted them but they sell their stuff all right. That's even worse than what Agonia is doing if you ask me.

Written by nikarg on 26.11.2020 at 11:38

Agonia should have expected that this would happen. They should have prepared a better response beforehand. They completely lost the plot when they said that Dagon is "most likely the only person that got hurt in process", I mean they cannot be fucking serious. Watching this stuff makes it okay because you are not hurting kids? But kids are being hurt for you to be able to watch that shit. It is not the same as being engaged in the actual act but being a "viewing customer" is pretty despicable in itself.

I'm not sure how much to call him just a "viewing customer" when he was also posting this stuff on Photobucket.

Written by RaduP on 26.11.2020 at 11:44

I'm not sure how much to call him just a "viewing customer" when he was also posting this stuff on Photobucket.

I am restricting myself to what was actually proven in court and what he was sentenced for.

Written by nikarg on 26.11.2020 at 11:51

I am restricting myself to what was actually proven in court and what he was sentenced for.

That's a fair assessment, even though I'm pretty sure he admitted to that. I would be interested in why the court's decisions were as they were, but from someone other than Dagon.

Written by RaduP on 26.11.2020 at 11:53

That's a fair assessment, even though I'm pretty sure he admitted to that. I would be interested in why the court's decisions were as they were, but from someone other than Dagon.

In all fairness, I am curious too. I don't know how the law works in the U.S. but in my neck of the woods everything related to child p. is a felony which means a lot of jail time. It is possible that their case wasn't strong enough with evidence (I am not implying that nothing was there just that they couldn't prove it) and this is why they offered him a plea.

There's actual contradiction in their words: "the only vicim was Dagon himself" and "everyone deserves a second chance in life". I do believe no one should be considered criminal for life unless they've taken a life and damaged a life permanently. Apparently he had photos of minors in sexual intercourse not just pictures of sexualized kids. There's a huge difference in possessing photos of kids in bathing suits and possessing photos of kids having sex or masturbating. In having the later, although he does not harm those kids directly, by downloading and uploading he's participating in child pornography thus encouraging more kids to be harmed in the future. In this case, proven by court that he contributed with harming these kids lifes and potentially harm others in the future, yes he's marked for life. No second chances. I'm with SOM on this one.

Written by nikarg on 26.11.2020 at 12:11

In all fairness, I am curious too. I don't know how the law works in the U.S. but in my neck of the woods everything related to child p. is a felony which means a lot of jail time. It is possible that their case wasn't strong enough with evidence (I am not implying that nothing was there just that they couldn't prove it) and this is why they offered him a plea.

I know that it's not related to the metal world, but that's the first example comes out from my mind. Full story here

Short version: CEO and boss of Gearbox Randy Pitchford have leave in a restaurant a USB stick in 2014, wich contained Pitchford's personal collection of 'underage' pornography (in some of them he was directly part of them), sensitive corporate documents of Gearbox and business partners like Take-Two Interactive, 2K Games, Sega, Microsoft, Sony. One emploee of the restaurant found the USB, since was unprotected he was able to see all files, but was honest enough to contact soon as possible the legal office of Gearbox to give back the USB.
By the way, lawsuit started only in 2018 when former Gearbox lawyer Wade Callender, wich cover Randy ass in 2014 when he lost the USB, revelead that Randy stole 12 milion $ as a personal bonus from Gearbox founds, along with the UBS and carring solid proofes. The difense line for the pornography folder was one the most biggest bullshit than one could say it: save the material for studying the "magic trick" performed by the supposted "barely legal" actress. Both parts comes to an agreement a year later and everything was like before. All charges dropped and Randy keeped the 12 mln bonus too.

Written by nikarg on 26.11.2020 at 11:38

By the way, Season Of Mist may have booted them but they sell their stuff all right. That's even worse than what Agonia is doing if you ask me.

or even worst, close both eyes until 2018 by keeping Inquisition in their rooster for 6 years. Imho in 2012 the charges were more fresher than 2018. But if i remember well, SoM fired him more for the nazi allegation/charges than child pornography.

In these situations it's always better to just say nothing. There's no point engaging people about this stuff as everyone already has their mind made up. Agonia is going to face the same stuff when/if that Absu album releases. Proscriptor took the smart route and said nothing, Agonia should do the same.

By most indicators this album has been well received and seems to be selling well, despite efforts from Metalcucks and the usual suspects.

Written by UnknownCheese on 26.11.2020 at 15:53

In these situations it's always better to just say nothing.

...

By most indicators this album has been well received and seems to be selling well...

Bad publicity is still publicity.

Written by nikarg on 26.11.2020 at 12:11

Written by RaduP on 26.11.2020 at 11:53

That's a fair assessment, even though I'm pretty sure he admitted to that. I would be interested in why the court's decisions were as they were, but from someone other than Dagon.

In all fairness, I am curious too. I don't know how the law works in the U.S. but in my neck of the woods everything related to child p. is a felony which means a lot of jail time. It is possible that their case wasn't strong enough with evidence (I am not implying that nothing was there just that they couldn't prove it) and this is why they offered him a plea.

I can tell you this from personal experience, in many states first time non violent drug offenders get more time then actual child molesters. It's pretty disgusting.

In any case, Agonia Records needs to hire a better PR team. If they can afford it that is. I mean really... this is very poor damage control. Then again, this most likely will die off in a few days or weeks. Not that many people are interested in Dagon. A large portion of people would just buy his albums, not giving a shit about his personal life.

We should ignore this band, we have nsbm ban here in ms, maybe we should ban bands what are involve din child porno? bad for label.

Written by Bad English on 26.11.2020 at 20:07

We should ignore this band, we have nsbm ban here in ms, maybe we should ban bands what are involve din child porno? bad for label.

Lol if we start banning metal bands for everything legally and/or morally questionable, half the database will disappear.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 26.11.2020 at 21:25

Written by Bad English on 26.11.2020 at 20:07

We should ignore this band, we have nsbm ban here in ms, maybe we should ban bands what are involve din child porno? bad for label.

Lol if we start banning metal bands for everything legally and/or morally questionable, half the database will disappear.

Well we can delete mano war le premier avril and see how shoutbox will re act

Written by Lanthros on 26.11.2020 at 16:43

I can tell you this from personal experience, in many states first time non violent drug offenders get more time then actual child molesters. It's pretty disgusting.

Reminds me of

Written by Darkside Momo on 26.11.2020 at 22:14

Written by Lanthros on 26.11.2020 at 16:43

Reminds me of

That's pretty much exactly it.

@Rot Teufel and @Lanthros: What you are both describing is really sad and upsetting. And unjust. Before Radu posted this news, we had a private discussion trying to figure out how it should be presented so that, a) Metal Storm would not become the joke that is Metal Sucks and b) we wouldn't end up in the wrong end of a lawsuit. In this discussion, Radu told me twice that there is a failure of the justice system (based on the fact that, in his opinion, Dagon sort of got away easily despite committing a heinous crime - yes, watching child porn is heinous, I am sure we do not need to debate that). And I agree with him, justice is not always served and it probably wasn't served in this particular case. Laws have little windows and lawyers will always try to take advantage of those. At the same time, I don't see how it is better when social media judges try to apply their own version of the law themselves.

And a general remark: If anyone is feeling triggered by what is happening and believes Inquisition and/or Agonia Records should be boycotted, they should also boycott all the labels that sell their stuff (including SoM who "booted" them but they are making money off of them even today - how fucking hilarious and pretentious is this shit?), all the streaming platforms (Spotify, YouTube) that are hosting their music, etc. If you don't boycott everything that is even remotely promoting Inquisition, you are just another SJW to me that makes noise on the internet for the sake of noise. The way I see it, I am still going to listen to the music because the new album is fantastic but I have no interest in promoting the band by either reviewing or buying the album.

And, as I said in the previous news we posted two years ago, if you have Inquisition CDs you want to get rid off, don't burn them, I'll give you an address and I'll pay for shipping. The damage is already done, the money has been paid for those, so if you cannot bear having the music of Dagon in your collection, I'll be happy to alleviate the burden off of you. The only album I own physically is Ominous Doctrines Of The Perpetual Mystical Macrocosm, so I will be glad to receive everything else. By the way, no one offered to give me anything the last time I made this suggestion.

p.s. We are not going to remove Inquisition from the database as long as I have a say in this, simply because of Troy's explanation a few posts above.

Ok, so if I download this album, I'm not hurting Inquisition or Agonia Records. No, I'll only hurt myself for my ill-advised decision. Awesome.

Written by IBlackened on 27.11.2020 at 05:35

Ok, so if I download this album, I'm not hurting Inquisition or Agonia Records. No, I'll only hurt myself for my ill-advised decision. Awesome.

Listening to Inquisition is indeed an ill-adviced decision.

Written by RaduP on 27.11.2020 at 11:15

Listening to Inquisition is indeed an ill-adviced decision.

Written by nikarg on 27.11.2020 at 02:24

@Rot Teufel and @Lanthros: What you are both describing is really sad and upsetting. And unjust. Before Radu posted this news, we had a private discussion trying to figure out how it should be presented so that, a) Metal Storm would not become the joke that is Metal Sucks and b) we wouldn't end up in the wrong end of a lawsuit. In this discussion, Radu told me twice that there is a failure of the justice system (based on the fact that, in his opinion, Dagon sort of got away easily despite committing a heinous crime - yes, watching child porn is heinous, I am sure we do not need to debate that). And I agree with him, justice is not always served and it probably wasn't served in this particular case. Laws have little windows and lawyers will always try to take advantage of those. At the same time, I don't see how it is better when social media judges try to apply their own version of the law themselves.

i think that metalstorm has done a good job providing all necessary links one needs for reading the full story with all possible public datas we have. A good base for a open discussion imho, but i know that i'm what i'm and others could think a differnt way: what could be an open argument for me, for another is forbidden. One of the reason i lked (and still like) metal was that you can find a song for every possible argument/theme possible. This huge variety has always amazed me.
Probably my intention was misleaded. I was just porting an example. Heck, i even like SoM store cause i can find a lot of my fav/liked bands or rare albums at resonable prices... Censorship is a quick way, but it's not the right one imho. I strongly agree with the social media justice part (an evolution of the "mob rules"), wich could be even much worst and ruin lifes forever.

Written by Rot Teufel on 29.11.2020 at 13:27

Probably my intention was misleaded. I was just porting an example.

What you said made perfect sense. I was not referring to either you or Lanthros when I mentioned SJWs. I only referred to both of you because you gave examples of cases where justice was not served. We totally agree on that. I hope what I said wasn't misunderstood. The rest of my comment was a general remark not directed to anyone specifically from here.

No problem i appreciate that

Written by nikarg on 27.11.2020 at 02:24

And a general remark: If anyone is feeling triggered by what is happening and believes Inquisition and/or Agonia Records should be boycotted, they should also boycott all the labels that sell their stuff (including SoM who "booted" them but they are making money off of them even today - how fucking hilarious and pretentious is this shit?), all the streaming platforms (Spotify, YouTube) that are hosting their music, etc. If you don't boycott everything that is even remotely promoting Inquisition, you are just another SJW to me that makes noise on the internet for the sake of noise. The way I see it, I am still going to listen to the music because the new album is fantastic but I have no interest in promoting the band by either reviewing or buying the album.

I think this is a bit extreme to be honest Nik. There's literally millions of artists hosted on streaming platforms; I think it's entirely possible to boycott one specific musician band because you find them reprehensible (E.g. for watching child porn, or being openly supremacist) without having to swear off all music streaming platforms, and calling someone with that viewpoint an SJW is frankly lazy (the boycotting Agonia but still buying from SoM whilst they still sell Inquisition's products I can agree is hypocritical). If you have an issue with one musician or band in particular (and I think pedophilia and Nazism are perfectly valid reasons to do so), you're going to have far more success directly targeting them and their label than just cancelling subscriptions for every listening platform.

And to be honest, I've always found the whole 'I disagree with your opinion but I will die defending your right to say it' argument and similar sentiments that are always shared in censorship discussions a bit flimsy; if the opinions that are being voiced or actions that are being taken have the real potential of harming other people, maybe those opinions don't deserve defending, particularly when you know a lot of the people voicing those opinions wouldn't defend your right to free speech. Everyone loves to discuss the slippery slope of trying to introduce any form of censorship and 'cancel culture', whilst shrugging their shoulders at the slippery slope into having global rises in far-right activity that is abetted by having vile opinions easily shared without restrictions. If a label signs a band that features an individual convicted of sharing child pornography (even putting aside the far-right connections, such as appearing on a record titled 'Declaration Of Anti-Semitic Terror') who has been muted in showing regret for their actions, and then the label claims that said individual is 'the only person that got hurt in the process', I think it's totally fine for people to tell them to get fucked, without having to swear off all music platforms.

Written by musclassia on 29.11.2020 at 14:44

I think this is a bit extreme to be honest Nik.

Your comment made me realize that I probably did not explain myself properly so thank you for the opportunity to do so now.

I have written in another thread something along the lines of "if you are a nazi then be prepared to receive the shitstorm coming your way and I couldn't care less if you feel you are being censored because being a nazi and crying over your lack of freedom of speech at the same time is fucking ridiculous". So I don't disagree with you. Quite the opposite.

'Cancel culture' works in the same way as nazism so there is no way I would ever support it. You are free to boycott anything you want yourself but posting all over social media that everyone should boycott along with you and shaming those who don't by calling them "pedo affiliates" for example is SJW shit for the sake of being a SJW internet sensation whose sole intent is to get likes and virtual applauds. Social media and media in general is a toxic cesspool and this is why Radu and I wanted to be very careful about how we were going to present this news. Everyone is calling Dagon a pedo and he may very well be one but he was never convicted of sharing child pornography, as you state in your post. I have read everything that is available online around the case and what he was finally convicted for is entirely different from what is being circulated in the media. I have said already that I think he actually did it, but the fact remains that he was not convicted for it. Failure of the justice system? Very probable, but that's the way it is. And everyone is innocent until proven guilty and he was not found guilty of that. Except if we want to write our own new laws so that we can make our own decisions depending on how we see fit for each court case but this sounds utterly fascist and is a slippery slope if you ask me.

As far as the streaming platforms are concerned, do they or do they not promote the band by featuring them? How exactly is it any different that one label has signed them if everyone else is also making money off of them? Does 1 dollar that Spotify may make for 10 streams carry fewer children's tears than the 10 dollars Agonia makes foe a cd sale (the numbers are arbitrary)? This is highly hypocritical if you ask me. And where do we draw the line? Is murder ok but being an (unconvicted and unproven) pedo not ok? I am not talking about the calm discussion that we are having here (and my previous comment had nothing to do with MS users because fortunately we are capable of having discussions here - most of the time, at least), but if someone wants to be so vocal about Inquisition and are shitposting about them all over social media then they should be disgusted towards everyone that is promoting them. And they can limit themselves to buying albums from labels that fulfil all their high moral criteria; streaming for free is easy and convenient but the way I see it you can't have your cake and eat it too. Like, "oh, Dagon is pedo scum and Agonia are pedo scum supporters for signing his band but I can listen to anything I want on Spotify for free so it is not so bad that they are featured there too". I am not taking the side of Agonia in any way, their tweets made me furious too.

To be clear, I hate pedos with all the passion you can imagine, I can justify any crime but this particular one (along with rape) I do not and never will. This is not debatable for me. But I have chosen to do something about it in real life where it actually matters and does make a difference, rather than demonstrate my distaste through online and meaningless shitposting. And listening to the music does not bend my personal moral compass one bit.

Written by nikarg on 29.11.2020 at 20:56

As far as the streaming platforms are concerned, do they or do they not promote the band by featuring them? How exactly is it any different that one label has signed them if everyone else is also making money off of them? Does 1 dollar that Spotify may make for 10 streams carry fewer children's tears than the 10 dollars Agonia makes foe a cd sale (the numbers are arbitrary)? This is highly hypocritical if you ask me. And where do we draw the line? Is murder ok but being an (unconvicted and unproven) pedo not ok? I am not talking about the calm discussion that we are having here (and my previous comment had nothing to do with MS users because fortunately we are capable of having discussions here - most of the time, at least), but if someone wants to be so vocal about Inquisition and are shitposting about them all over social media then they should be disgusted towards everyone that is promoting them. And they can limit themselves to buying albums from labels that fulfil all their high moral criteria; streaming for free is easy and convenient but the way I see it you can't have your cake and eat it too. Like, "oh, Dagon is pedo scum and Agonia are pedo scum supporters for signing his band but I can listen to anything I want on Spotify for free so it is not so bad that they are featured there too". I am not taking the side of Agonia in any way, their tweets made me furious too.

Hmm, to a degree I can vaguely see where you're coming from. I did have a look on Spotify after doing my post to see whether other controversial bands I knew were listed there (Arghoslent, Grand Belial Key, Peste Noire, Nokturnal Mortum, a few other NSBM bands I could remember), and none of them were on the service. I don't know whether that's because they decided Spotify wasn't a service compatible with their approach or if Spotify decided they were inappropriate bands to host on the service; I don't actually know what kind of background checks Spotify performs if someone wants to upload music to their service. But I think that's the distinction; Spotify is a platform, but it's not like they work with the artists or anything, so there's every chance they may not even know that Inquisition has these allegations against them or that they're even on the platform. But whilst Spotify let them use their service, a record label like Agonia are taking a far more promotive role in Inquisition being shared to the world, with whom they would have had to take an active role in making an agreement to have Inquisition on their roster. The people who feel most strongly against Inquisition could take efforts to contact Spotify and the like to see how they would respond to know about these allegations, but to me it seems pretty easy to say that it's possible to boycott the record label that provides PR services for a band you vehemently disagree with and not a website that said band is a user of without being a hypocrite.