Satanism

Written by [user id=483] on 31.10.2006 at 11:20

@Hellraizer - are you the same guy who about year ago argued so furiously that the REAL Satanism is all about devil worship and animal sacrifice? The one who claimed that there are Satanists in Israel who kill cats during rituals? If that's the case, then I must say I am pretty surprised in a good way.

Anyway, I don't understand the quarrel between LaVeyan and traditional or theistic Satanists. They both follow the same basic philosophy, which is that of unconformity, independent thought and self-advancement. The only real differences come when we go to the metaphysical plane. Is Satan just a symbol, natural force or a real deity? These questions are very personal to each individual Satanist, as they are essential to build up one's personal system of belief. Yet I don't see their importance in practical everyday life. All Satanists are in nature egoistic, seek pleasure instead of pain and are dedicated to personal evolution. The form of Satan that they revere and whether they practice magick or not does not hold any importance here. So I think that there is really no point of accusing each other.

End of rant.

Yeah, well there are in Israel, I wont deny that, but I did alot of research and just absorbing knowledge and I came the conclusion that there is just too much differrent kinds of satanism that it would be naive to view satanism soley as the devil worshippng kind. Im not against satanism really, everyone has to find their own beliefs without the influence of other forces like the church or a book, I have actually found it rather interesting and broke that illusion of what is evil and dark. The illusion of what is evil and dark is just propaganda from Christians and other conspiracy theorists.

But, lol, I remember that, that was really narrow minded of me, so hope we can leave that behind!

Haha, my warmest congratulations then!

Written by Sunioj on 31.10.2006 at 12:54

Written by [user id=483] on 31.10.2006 at 11:20

@Hellraizer - are you the same guy who about year ago argued so furiously that the REAL Satanism is all about devil worship and animal sacrifice? The one who claimed that there are Satanists in Israel who kill cats during rituals? If that's the case, then I must say I am pretty surprised in a good way.

Anyway, I don't understand the quarrel between LaVeyan and traditional or theistic Satanists. They both follow the same basic philosophy, which is that of unconformity, independent thought and self-advancement. The only real differences come when we go to the metaphysical plane. Is Satan just a symbol, natural force or a real deity? These questions are very personal to each individual Satanist, as they are essential to build up one's personal system of belief. Yet I don't see their importance in practical everyday life. All Satanists are in nature egoistic, seek pleasure instead of pain and are dedicated to personal evolution. The form of Satan that they revere and whether they practice magick or not does not hold any importance here. So I think that there is really no point of accusing each other.

End of rant.

Yeah, well there are in Israel, I wont deny that, but I did alot of research and just absorbing knowledge and I came the conclusion that there is just too much differrent kinds of satanism that it would be naive to view satanism soley as the devil worshippng kind. Im not against satanism really, everyone has to find their own beliefs without the influence of other forces like the church or a book, I have actually found it rather interesting and broke that illusion of what is evil and dark. The illusion of what is evil and dark is just propaganda from Christians and other conspiracy theorists.

But, lol, I remember that, that was really narrow minded of me, so hope we can leave that behind!

"Devil worhippers" are NOT Satanists. These people belong to the religion in which they found their devil character. For example, if it is the devil character in Christian mythology that they have decided to think of as "god" they are Christian. It seems to me that Christians really don't like that idea, but they have a hard time thinking of their religion as MYTHology and if you believe in the mythology you are subscribing to that religious belief. It is kind of funny that whenever the media finds out about some sort of "ritualistic" murder they call it Satanic instead of Christian.

Believing in an external diety is COMPLETELY antithetical to Satanism.

You are only a Christian if you follow Christ's teachings. How could you be a Christian if you worship another Deity from the Judeo-Christian "mythology"?

Also when are people going to notice that there is more than just "Philosophical" Satanism? If anything, devil woship is the true Satanism. All that philosophical claim is just Humanism with an attitude.

I don't even know why I comment anymore.

Written by Clintagräm on 07.11.2006 at 04:02



I don't even know why I comment anymore.

Neither do I

C-Dub is another wise guy, who not being himself a Satanist, thinks that HE knows all about it and has the credibility and authority to judge and tell what the REAL Satanism is. The very same condition that Hellraizer suffered about a year ago. C-Dub, could you please give a few more illuminating words on the essence of REAL satanism to us, ppl who have been on the path for years?

And please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that I know the Ultimate Truth and I am always opened to constructive criticism. But your oh-so-smart attitude... I have simply grown tired because of those so-called "experts on Satanism" that rise to the surface every time that the subject comes up.

Okay, so we have all of these people who think that there is such a thing as "theistic" Satanism. I would really like these people to point me into the direction of a world wide organization with more than a smalll handful of members of a so called "Theistic" Church of Satan. To my knowledge nothing of the sort has ever existed. All that these people are, are delusional children who decide to worship the "evil" god in the Christian Bible.
There are plenty of people who may stupidly call themselves "Theistic" Satanismts, but I have yet to hear of a large group that has codified that into an actual religion.

Written by [user id=483] on 07.11.2006 at 14:06

C-Dub is another wise guy, who not being himself a Satanist, thinks that HE knows all about it and has the credibility and authority to judge and tell what the REAL Satanism is. The very same condition that Hellraizer suffered about a year ago. C-Dub, could you please give a few more illuminating words on the essence of REAL satanism to us, ppl who have been on the path for years?

And please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that I know the Ultimate Truth and I am always opened to constructive criticism. But your oh-so-smart attitude... I have simply grown tired because of those so-called "experts on Satanism" that rise to the surface every time that the subject comes up.

I don't really care enough to argue, and of course I don't know everything. But I often find it amusing when people argue back and forth about it. I'll plainly tell you Devil Worship is the only tr00 Satanism.

Bleed for the Devil!

Written by El Vikingo on 07.11.2006 at 20:23

Okay, so we have all of these people who think that there is such a thing as "theistic" Satanism. I would really like these people to point me into the direction of a world wide organization with more than a smalll handful of members of a so called "Theistic" Church of Satan. To my knowledge nothing of the sort has ever existed. All that these people are, are delusional children who decide to worship the "evil" god in the Christian Bible.
There are plenty of people who may stupidly call themselves "Theistic" Satanismts, but I have yet to hear of a large group that has codified that into an actual religion.

What about Temple of Set, ONA, Joy of Satan? Again, I don't see the point of bashing theistic Satanists just because they see things from a different viewpoint. And please, where do you see the "evil god from the Christian Bible" in any of those organisations?

C-Dub - neither do I, but I just wanted to pour out my bitterness on someone

Written by [user id=483] on 08.11.2006 at 10:55

Written by El Vikingo on 07.11.2006 at 20:23

Okay, so we have all of these people who think that there is such a thing as "theistic" Satanism. I would really like these people to point me into the direction of a world wide organization with more than a smalll handful of members of a so called "Theistic" Church of Satan. To my knowledge nothing of the sort has ever existed. All that these people are, are delusional children who decide to worship the "evil" god in the Christian Bible.
There are plenty of people who may stupidly call themselves "Theistic" Satanismts, but I have yet to hear of a large group that has codified that into an actual religion.

What about Temple of Set, ONA, Joy of Satan? Again, I don't see the point of bashing theistic Satanists just because they see things from a different viewpoint. And please, where do you see the "evil god from the Christian Bible" in any of those organisations?

C-Dub - neither do I, but I just wanted to pour out my bitterness on someone

Any idiot can make up a religion and put it on the web.
These look to be three completely seperate clubs with no shared dogma. There has yet to be a body of thought that has been codified into something called "Theistic Satanism." All you have there are nut jobs who either got kicked out of the CoS or worship the "bad god" in whatever mythology they decide to believe in. This results in their little "religions" doing nothing more than ripping off of LaVey, but adding some spiritual mumbo jumbo. Nothing original. Nothing worth taking seriously.

Theistic Satanist is one who believes that Satan is something more than just a mere symbol. That leaves us a wide range of options, and doesn't mean that he/she authomatically believes in a literal being named Satan. By using the verb "to worship", you also demonstrate your shallow understanding of the subject. No Satanist ever WORSHIPS anyone or anything (well, some may say that they worship themselves, but that's another subject), the act of worship alone is a trait of a Right-Hand Path religion.

Ripping off LaVey? Hm, give me one single original point that LaVey himself created and wasn't inspired by philosophers or occultists who preceded him. The idea of Left-Hand Path is older than Christianity and dates back to ancient Egypt and Persia; the genius of LaVey was that of a showman and marketer. He introduced Satanism to the wider audience, with his personal blend. Mumbo jumbo? Wasn't it LaVey himself who also believed in and practiced occultism? Besides, the founders of the Temple of Set were not kicked out, but they left CoS by themself.

And what's with your obsession with some world-wide organisation? Satanism is about individuality and personal well-being, not about world-conquering and bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake.

To end the rant, I don't want to claim that there are no theistic Satanists out there who are not idiots, even the very same Joy of Satan group would classify as one. I just want to say that generalising this narrowminded view on all Satanists who are not LaVeyan is a rather shallow and un-Satanic thing to do, to say the least.

Yes, Mike Acquino left the COS, because he wanted to expand his practices because he didnt agree with the way everything was organized with COS, and started his own research ( as Ive read ) on Crowleys interpretation of the occult and how certain levels of illusions can be broken. Also the temple of set and even the MLO have a wide gathering too, not just websites either.

I haven't read through all the posts, but I think as with every other satanism thread there is consistent discrepancy about what the hell (haha..pun) it actually is. I've no idea myself as it seems anyone who considers themselves as a 'satanist' doesn't agree with the ideologies of other people who also claim to be satanists. The main reason I find it idiotic for the most part is this constant notion of 'oh no, devil worship is hardly satanism, only atheism and worship of a "symbol"is real.....' It seems that satanists among themselves, while they aim for individuality and the disregard of social norms and constraints, are in a constant battle to figure out just what beliefs are right and wrong.

I agree with C-Dub's post. In my opinion, what is more stanist than worshipping satan as corny as it sounds? (Note, I have no beliefs in any of this drivel). Those who disregard the practice of devil worship in favour of being an 'athiestic satanist' are, as C-Dub said, merely humanists with attitude or, if I'm cynical, elitist fools of the teenage variety.....

Written by [user id=483] on 09.11.2006 at 02:32


Ripping off LaVey? Hm, give me one single original point that LaVey himself created and wasn't inspired by philosophers or occultists who preceded him. The idea of Left-Hand Path is older than Christianity and dates back to ancient Egypt and Persia; the genius of LaVey was that of a showman and marketer. He introduced Satanism to the wider audience, with his personal blend. Mumbo jumbo? Wasn't it LaVey himself who also believed in and practiced occultism? Besides, the founders of the Temple of Set were not kicked out, but they left CoS by themself.

Of course LaVey based a lot of The Satanic Bible on the work of other authors and philosophers. It is not hard to figure out who influenced him and he never claimed to come up with a completely original philosophy. What I see from some of these other guys (their symbolism and writings) is that some of their stuff completely matches what LaVey has done. Do they give LaVey the credit that LaVey gives the guys who influenced him? Ah...no.

Written by [user id=4838] on 10.11.2006 at 08:59

I haven't read through all the posts, but I think as with every other satanism thread there is consistent discrepancy about what the hell (haha..pun) it actually is. I've no idea myself as it seems anyone who considers themselves as a 'satanist' doesn't agree with the ideologies of other people who also claim to be satanists. The main reason I find it idiotic for the most part is this constant notion of 'oh no, devil worship is hardly satanism, only atheism and worship of a "symbol"is real.....' It seems that satanists among themselves, while they aim for individuality and the disregard of social norms and constraints, are in a constant battle to figure out just what beliefs are right and wrong.

I agree with C-Dub's post. In my opinion, what is more stanist than worshipping satan as corny as it sounds? (Note, I have no beliefs in any of this drivel). Those who disregard the practice of devil worship in favour of being an 'athiestic satanist' are, as C-Dub said, merely humanists with attitude or, if I'm cynical, elitist fools of the teenage variety.....

Well put there man, you made my day!

Is Paganism the same thing or close to as Satanism?

Oh, and the whole thing about Christianity being mythology, that is true. Though we are Christians, we know that mythology is basically a story created to explain something or how something was created. There are many forms of this of course. Many Christians do get offended by this because they believe you are saying what they think is real, is just a fairy-tale. But there is no reason to feel offended, because it is a true statement.

Written by Ramung on 18.11.2006 at 16:26

Written by [user id=17658] on 13.11.2006 at 16:39

Is Paganism the same thing or close to as Satanism?

It's not the same, not even close. Pagans believe in pre-christian gods, like Zeus or Odin. Satanists believe in Satan.

Ok...I was just confused because everytime I look up Paganism, pentagrams pop up and everything.

Written by [user id=17658] on 27.11.2006 at 16:23

Written by Ramung on 18.11.2006 at 16:26

Written by [user id=17658] on 13.11.2006 at 16:39

Is Paganism the same thing or close to as Satanism?

It's not the same, not even close. Pagans believe in pre-christian gods, like Zeus or Odin. Satanists believe in Satan.

Ok...I was just confused because everytime I look up Paganism, pentagrams pop up and everything.

Pentagrams are an ancient sign, doesnt neccessarily mean, satan, the force of evil. It is also used to show identity with the earth, wisdom, and knowledge. Also the pentagram also represents the 5 rivers of Hades in Greek mythology.

Written by El Vikingo on 07.11.2006 at 20:23

are delusional children who decide to worship the "evil" god in the Christian Bible.

Just to let you know, Satan is not a "evil god" He is not a god at all. There is only one God, and as much as Satan wants to be Him, he is not.

Just figured because you're so interested in geting the facts right about Satanism, you shouldn't be making mistakes about Christianity.

Written by Dane Train on 28.11.2006 at 06:03

Written by El Vikingo on 07.11.2006 at 20:23

are delusional children who decide to worship the "evil" god in the Christian Bible.

Just to let you know, Satan is not a "evil god" He is not a god at all. There is only one God, and as much as Satan wants to be Him, he is not.

Just figured because you're so interested in geting the facts right about Satanism, you shouldn't be making mistakes about Christianity.

Actually hemlock, wether you want to admit it or not, Lusifer is a god, he has his own plane of Dominion, he has worshippers, and he has The powers of a deity. Now does that mean he is a good god? no, not really, if you go by Biblical interpretations (Which is Bias, btw) Then Lusifer is an evil entity. The only thing that doesn't validate him as a god in your eyes is the fact that you're a monotheist, and believe that there is only a single god. Due to the fact that you're christian you Interpret all other gods as "False Idols," which quite frankly, really erks me, but back to you being a monotheist, the point is, I'll never be able to make you see things from my point of view. I can understand you not liking lusifer, seeing as how he's the arch nemisis of your god and such, but technically, he's a god.

Satan has no plane of dominion. Lucifer was an angel, and angels are not God. Revelation 12:7-9 talks a bit about where Satan comes from. "7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down?that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." From that point on, the servants of God, the Angels, and the servants of Satan, the Demons, have been in conflict. Satan is doing all he can to turn people from God. Through lies and deceit, the Devil works his evil into our lives.

If Satan is a god, then so are all the angels and demons, and one could go as far as to say man too are gods. Satan may have followers, so does George W. Bush. Does that make him a god? No, of cource not. But enough of this, because it seems a little silly for me to debate doctrine with you. Best wishes, man.

-Hemlock

@Hemlock: When I say plane of Dominion, I mean hell. Lusifer resides and rules there, thus that is his plane of Dominion. Some demons are in fact worshipped as Gods, The demons Beezlebub and Azmodeous had temples built for them in ancient Mesopetamia, where they were worshipped. Also, angels and saints are worshipped in a god like manner, mainly by Catholics, I.E. pray to X saint or X angel for X pourpouse. So yes, Angels and Demons are gods to.

From a personal point of view, I even see men as gods, because we all have a touch of the divine within us, we each have worlds upon worlds within us, even proven by science, so to the beings that reside in those worlds, we are gods. That's ust my point of view though

@Arian, also Azazel, which is pretty popular.
When I say god of hell, what do you think? Satan obviously. I dont think we can expect christians to understand the concept of Demigods, or anything other than the judeic god for that matter because of their faith in the abrahamic god, that anything else would be blasphemy or idolatry.

Anything that appears divine to a group of people can be considered a god to them, that includes anything in the left hand path.

@Hellraizer: Yeah, I'm only mildly familiar with the christian demons, but I had to do some study on them so Did learn a little bit.

On another note, what do you mean by "The left hand path?" I'm just wondering.

Left hand path is basically anything unorthodox towards western religions ( christianity, judaism etc. ), it usually pertains to satanism.

Written by Arian Totalis on 28.11.2006 at 19:01

@Hemlock: When I say plane of Dominion, I mean hell. Lusifer resides and rules there,

Satan does not rule Hell. I am not sure where you got that idea from, but it is wrong. Scripture says that Christ rules over Heaven, Earth and Hell. Not Satan.

Written by Dane Train on 30.11.2006 at 21:06

Written by Arian Totalis on 28.11.2006 at 19:01

@Hemlock: When I say plane of Dominion, I mean hell. Lusifer resides and rules there,

Satan does not rule Hell. I am not sure where you got that idea from, but it is wrong. Scripture says that Christ rules over Heaven, Earth and Hell. Not Satan.

Then why the hell doesn't christ go and kill satan now? Maby he claims it, like he claims the rest of the world, but only in name, in truth, it probably belongs to lucifer. Just because someone says that my food belongs to them, does it make it theirs?

Arian Totalis, I am not sure exactly what you are getting at here? In all honesty, and I mean this in the nicest way, it seems you really don't know anything about spiritual warfare, the fall, atonement, or other aspects of Christian Doctrine. If you would really like to discuss this, I totally welcome an open discussion on it, but please act a little bit mature. Practically all of your statements towards me have carried a negative tone to them. So, if we could please have a polite conversation, that would be most helpful.

I am very open to talk about what the Bible has to say about Satan, demons and other aspects like that. Not to mention, my own personal views on the topics. So please let me know how I can help you understand this better. Is there a particular aspect you would like to look at? Some writings? Let me know, I have a lot of books on these topics and would love to talk with you more.

Peace,

Hemlock

@Hemlock: I would like to appolagize if it seems as if I carried any negative connotations to my statement.
My questions really were just out of curiosity, and my statements are the way that I tend to see things, I'm not trying to force my views on you.

In regaurds to My knowledge of christianity, believe it or not I have studied it to an extent past what most of my peers do, probably not nearly as much as you have, but I have still studied it all the same. I would also be happy to have a discussion with you to aquire more knowledge, my mind is always open, and I'm always willing to learn. It's like the saying goes, "a wise man will always listen to the words of others."