Opeth

I think the new album is a great blend of hard core but then takes turns easy. A style Sabbath did well. Lull you then hammer you. I do love the song burden, as it allows them to emote.

@Bluesaponne
Hardcore?

Written by [user id=1909] on 12.10.2008 at 01:27
I think its their erratic songwriting that makes them so good actually....I love it how unpredictable they can be. With random parts like in "Lotus Eater" that have no apparent reason to be in there, nothing leads up to it and nothing flows from it but its just so fantastic that I dont really care. Their randomness, to my mind, brings about their brilliance.

I'm kind of speechless. Never seen someone use inept songwriting as evidence of brilliance.

Written by Doc G. on 15.10.2008 at 04:53
Yeah I was thinking about taking a greyhound, but then I remembered that guy who got decapitated on the greyhound up here a few months ago, the killer like barricaded himself inside the bus after it stopped, started eating parts of the victim, and waving the head around out the window, the killer came from the city that concert was in, call me nuts but I get hassled by weirdos on the city bus enough as it is, I dont want to come across people like him in case theres something in the water there.

I think this is one of those situations where you're more likely to get killed in a car accident on the way to the bus depot...

Quote:

Written by [user id=1909] on 12.10.2008 at 01:27
I think its their erratic songwriting that makes them so good actually....I love it how unpredictable they can be. With random parts like in "Lotus Eater" that have no apparent reason to be in there, nothing leads up to it and nothing flows from it but its just so fantastic that I dont really care. Their randomness, to my mind, brings about their brilliance.

I'm kind of speechless. Never seen someone use inept songwriting as evidence of brilliance.

lol Well thats probably evidence of me not having english as my first language so I probably used the word erratic incorrectly. What I meant what that their songwriting is ever changing, not inept - for some reason my afrikaner mind had erratic as strange or "scattered" (as in multi dimensional). No idea why lol

I think that in this context your erratic could mean something like "out of the ordinary"

Written by [user id=1909] on 15.10.2008 at 21:10
lol Well thats probably evidence of me not having english as my first language so I probably used the word erratic incorrectly. What I meant what that their songwriting is ever changing, not inept - for some reason my afrikaner mind had erratic as strange or "scattered" (as in multi dimensional). No idea why lol

Well yes, that's basically what I thought you meant by erratic. I'm just saying such a style is simplistic, lazy, easy; not something I would equate with brilliant.

I don't think you could write off a particular style of lyrics writing is being either brilliant or not. It is the whole of the song when it has been completed, that can be brilliant or not. Songwriting is only a part of all the different things that create a brilliant. And in the end, even labelling a song as brilliant is something rather subjective .

Written by totaliteraliter on 17.10.2008 at 22:55

Written by [user id=1909] on 15.10.2008 at 21:10
lol Well thats probably evidence of me not having english as my first language so I probably used the word erratic incorrectly. What I meant what that their songwriting is ever changing, not inept - for some reason my afrikaner mind had erratic as strange or "scattered" (as in multi dimensional). No idea why lol

Well yes, that's basically what I thought you meant by erratic. I'm just saying such a style is simplistic, lazy, easy; not something I would equate with brilliant.

Ok then tell me what isnt simplistic, lazy and easy...

Written by [user id=1909] on 19.10.2008 at 02:37
Ok then tell me what isnt simplistic, lazy and easy...

Development of themes, creating coherent transitions without being obvious or clichéd about it, weaving disparate parts together so that they form something greater as a whole, where each part serves a purpose and is integral to the overall sound. As opposed to slapping riff A, B, C, D and E together in any order with little regard for context.

I think the descripton above (development of themes, creating coherent transitions...) applies to Opeth quite well, their songs don't sound random to me. Maybe one example of incoherence would be the "funk" part in "Lotus Eater" but this is an exception, quite amusing one, I should say.
I wouldn't call myself a fan of Opeth, their music is a bit too dramatic to my tastes but I acknowledge the quality. Still, considering the popularity they have, I'd say they are little overrated but hey, so are most of popular metal bands.

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.10.2008 at 00:25

Written by [user id=1909] on 19.10.2008 at 02:37
Ok then tell me what isnt simplistic, lazy and easy...

Development of themes, creating coherent transitions without being obvious or clichéd about it, weaving disparate parts together so that they form something greater as a whole, where each part serves a purpose and is integral to the overall sound. As opposed to slapping riff A, B, C, D and E together in any order with little regard for context.

Yeah, what your saying definitely applies to the latest album. I like it, but some parts I'd just be getting into and they'd change it very suddenly and sharply that it kills any flow the song had. "Still Life" I find has a very nice flow to it (hence why its my favorite album of theirs).

Well then I guess I have bad taste in music because I like music which is unpredictable

btw @ totaliteraliter

give me an example of a band you think follows all those rules you think should be adhered to - would like to hear

Written by John Barleycorn on 21.10.2008 at 00:39
I think the descripton above (development of themes, creating coherent transitions...) applies to Opeth quite well, their songs don't sound random to me. Maybe one example of incoherence would be the "funk" part in "Lotus Eater" but this is an exception, quite amusing one, I should say.

Pretty much any of their more "progressive" songs that I've heard are just a mess. When they play it safe and take a more poppy approach as on songs like "The Drapery Falls" things work out better for them.

Written by [user id=1909] on 21.10.2008 at 02:59
Well then I guess I have bad taste in music because I like music which is unpredictable

btw @ totaliteraliter

give me an example of a band you think follows all those rules you think should be adhered to - would like to hear

You can be unpredictable without resorting to randomness. Opeth are just too often too shallow compositionally - a song like "Nectar", for example. You can remove any section from that song, or switch any of them around without impacting the song's overall effect because the individual parts have barely any connection to each other.

Bands that do this sort of thing with more consistency are not hard to find, listen to King Crimson, Enslaved, Yes, Pink Floyd, Crimson Massacre... bands that can do 10+ minute progressive epics without padding their songs with random sections which add nothing.

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.10.2008 at 06:29

Written by John Barleycorn on 21.10.2008 at 00:39
I think the descripton above (development of themes, creating coherent transitions...) applies to Opeth quite well, their songs don't sound random to me. Maybe one example of incoherence would be the "funk" part in "Lotus Eater" but this is an exception, quite amusing one, I should say.

Pretty much any of their more "progressive" songs that I've heard are just a mess. When they play it safe and take a more poppy approach as on songs like "The Drapery Falls" things work out better for them.

Written by [user id=1909] on 21.10.2008 at 02:59
Well then I guess I have bad taste in music because I like music which is unpredictable

btw @ totaliteraliter

give me an example of a band you think follows all those rules you think should be adhered to - would like to hear

You can be unpredictable without resorting to randomness. Opeth are just too often too shallow compositionally - a song like "Nectar", for example. You can remove any section from that song, or switch any of them around without impacting the song's overall effect because the individual parts have barely any connection to each other.

Bands that do this sort of thing with more consistency are not hard to find, listen to King Crimson, Enslaved, Yes, Pink Floyd, Crimson Massacre... bands that can do 10+ minute progressive epics without padding their songs with random sections which add nothing.

There progressive parts aren't ALL a mess, but I know what you mean. I hear that sometimes too, but it seems like the natural state of Opeth. And King Crimson? Err....'21st Century Schizoid Man' explodes into unstability and random jatter (I think I just made that word up, lol). They aren't totally random sections, but enough. Good reference though! Are you a fan? I'll look up your page after this!

I would LOVE to see them in Cologne, but on a Wednesday...its a bit difficult to say.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 21.10.2008 at 09:34
There progressive parts aren't ALL a mess, but I know what you mean. I hear that sometimes too, but it seems like the natural state of Opeth. And King Crimson? Err....'21st Century Schizoid Man' explodes into unstability and random jatter (I think I just made that word up, lol). They aren't totally random sections, but enough. Good reference though! Are you a fan? I'll look up your page after this!

"21st Century Schizoid Man" is pretty coherent, you really only have two main themes with while the solo sections can meander a bit but there is always at least an instrument holding on to the main thread of the song. You can hear certain elements like the dissonant horns in the main theme anticipating elements in the lengthy middle section. That middle section (the faster "jam" part of the song) works fine as a self contained musical experience - like most sections from Opeth songs. But in "21st Century Schizoid Man", the section is constantly moving forward and building momentum towards an explosive return to the main theme. This gives it a purpose, it works on its own while enhancing the impact of the section that follows. Compare this to a less competent Opeth song, and instead of that explosive reprisal of the main theme you would have another transition to another "random" section, then another, then another, then a few more, then we're done (of course, these random sections have probably alternated between heavy and soft, perhaps creating an illusion of coherence?). And yes I'm a fan, favourites are In the Court of the Crimson King, Red and Starless and Bible Black; also some of Fripp's solo work.

Opeth does have random clusters of riffs and what not which separate parts of some songs, but for the most part, they always come back to where they began.

21st holds that song together with these elements, but on a thin string. In other songs from the same album, its often like that. Its been awhile since I listened to it (maybe I should do that ). I think its 'Moonchild' when the music is broken down and then its just tinkering on the drum set.

However, I find these transitions with 'random sections' to hold a fair amount of interest. There are a few parts that get on my nerves sometimes though, but not many.

I <3 blackwater park.

I just heard "the grand conjuring" on the radio for the hundredth time or whatever--- still honestly a stunning song. just so tremendous. love it.

I just got Deliverance and Damnation on vinyl. This is what Opeth is supposed to sound like!

Written by [user id=31901] on 28.10.2008 at 09:00

I just heard "the grand conjuring" on the radio for the hundredth time or whatever--- still honestly a stunning song. just so tremendous. love it.

Conjuration.

I'd like to hear some of their earlier albums on vinyl...Damnation seems like the perfect Opeth album to hear on vinyl though

Oh right thanks Dr. Rock. Yeah wouldn't wanna mislabel such an awesome song.

Written by [user id=35601] on 28.10.2008 at 02:30

I <3 blackwater park.

...i usually listen to opeth randomly in my itunes...the past week i listened to blackwater park as it goes without the shuffle funciont and i noticed it can be a little bit repetitve and boring...idk why because i really like that album but i wont listen to it again like that...

Written by [user id=2084] on 29.10.2008 at 04:01

I'd like to hear some of their earlier albums on vinyl...Damnation seems like the perfect Opeth album to hear on vinyl though

Oh man, it is so good. Damnation sounds leaps and bounds better playing on my turntable than off iTunes.

Written by [user id=2084] on 29.10.2008 at 04:01

I'd like to hear some of their earlier albums on vinyl...Damnation seems like the perfect Opeth album to hear on vinyl though

I would love to hear their stuff on vinyl as well. But wouldn't call Damnation an ealry album by them.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 30.10.2008 at 22:11

Written by [user id=2084] on 29.10.2008 at 04:01

I'd like to hear some of their earlier albums on vinyl...Damnation seems like the perfect Opeth album to hear on vinyl though

I would love to hear their stuff on vinyl as well. But wouldn't call Damnation an ealry album by them.

Those were two seperate thoughts dude

Written by nana.MD on 30.10.2008 at 06:20

Written by [user id=35601] on 28.10.2008 at 02:30

I <3 blackwater park.

...i usually listen to opeth randomly in my itunes...the past week i listened to blackwater park as it goes without the shuffle funciont and i noticed it can be a little bit repetitve and boring...idk why because i really like that album but i wont listen to it again like that...

I know what you mean. Whenever I listen to the album from start to finish it gets a little homogeneous and somewhat boring. Its still one of the best Opeth releases because each song is so strong on its own.

Opeth Is A very wonderful band form the start to now

All they Albums Have an Excellent Rate In Metalstorm And they Albums the most heared in the world

Their Album Blackwater Park the best album to them in my opinion

I have just watched the Damnation part of the Lamentations DVD, and I really enjoyed Martin Lopez's drumming. Although he was asleep half of the time, some of his sections are really great.

I like the new members but I feel that Opeth has lost a lot of the Groovy Jazz sound of the previous works. Axe is a good drummer but his style of drumming is a bit too metal for the sound. Fredrick is a great guitarist though and fills in Lindgren nicely. I also feel that if Martin Mendez where to leave the band, Opeth would lose too much of the Opeth sound. Opinions?