Written by Dr. Strawberry on 20.10.2014 at 13:21

The review is damn contradictary.

As the reviewer said, "...The album consists of 9 compositions yet it's really difficult to choose my favorite ones since it is so damn great...", eventually this album received 7.5 from him.

This album is their best !

Written by [user id=4365] on 20.10.2014 at 13:44

Yeah it seems pretty clear that this album did not score higher because it's not original. That shows good objective critiquing

Written by Zap on 20.10.2014 at 13:32

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 20.10.2014 at 13:21

The review is damn contradictary.

As the reviewer said, "...The album consists of 9 compositions yet it's really difficult to choose my favorite ones since it is so damn great...", eventually this album received 7.5 from him.

This album is their best !

When are you gonna explain what's contradictory about it?

Written by Vombatus on 20.10.2014 at 15:23

7,5 is a very good score... even if by MS standards everything less than 8 must be crap

Written by [user id=4365] on 20.10.2014 at 13:44

Yeah it seems pretty clear that this album did not score higher because it's not original. That shows good objective critiquing

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 09:07

Not original ? This is a traditional black metal style album, I don't know what is the expectation of the reviewer, it's not clearly stated.
Unless he thinks only avantgarde or experimental black deserves a 9 or 10.

Written by [user id=4365] on 21.10.2014 at 13:24

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 09:07

Not original ? This is a traditional black metal style album, I don't know what is the expectation of the reviewer, it's not clearly stated.
Unless he thinks only avantgarde or experimental black deserves a 9 or 10.

The first question that might come to the mind of the reader of this review is "do they play something new?" The answer is simple - "no, they don't play anything new and they won't lead the black metal scene anywhere innovative".

I guess this is an album for all the traditional Norwegian Black Metal adorers and I am sure that Tsjuder won't disappoint you! Don't expect anything new.

Sounds like the reviewer knows exactly what his expectations are. A band cannot keep reviving the same style over and over again and expect to get high scores. A band playing "traditional black metal" in 2004 that doesn't do anything out of the ordinary IS unoriginal and does not deserve anything above a 7.5. The reviewer quite clearly differentiates his personal like of the album and the objective notion that it's not that valuable on the whole.

Also there is a huge gap between a trad black metal band doing nothing new and bands that play experimental and avant-garde music. In fact most bands probably fall somewhere in between those two ideas so your comment about only avant-garde or experimental black deserving a 9 or 10 is invalid as bands can do more traditional styles whilst injecting unique ideas into them without being considered avant-garde.

Read, learn, understand

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 13:53

Yeah...fully understood. I forgot the magic of multiplication. Thanks !
"Now they're damn great but they only get 7.5, if they try to be more innovative then they should be able to score a 8.0 (damn damn great). Same theory applied, if they need a 9.0, then they got to be damn damn damn damn great !

Written by Ilham on 21.10.2014 at 13:45

7.5 is more than enough for this. People really have to stop thinking every piece of music that doesn't suck deserves a nine out of ten. In this case you have to weigh in the "relevancy" of the album as well. Music is produced in a context, and that context matters. Especially when it comes to Tsjuder, who never had anything new or interesting to add a black metal scene that was booming with innovation in the early 2000s.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 14:01

Context ? Interesting, so...Black Metal is a fashion ? Which band is in the right context and in the lead now ?

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 14:01

Written by Ilham on 21.10.2014 at 13:45

7.5 is more than enough for this. People really have to stop thinking every piece of music that doesn't suck deserves a nine out of ten. In this case you have to weigh in the "relevancy" of the album as well. Music is produced in a context, and that context matters. Especially when it comes to Tsjuder, who never had anything new or interesting to add a black metal scene that was booming with innovation in the early 2000s.

Context ? Interesting, so...Black Metal is a fashion ? Which band is in the right context and in the lead now ?

Written by [user id=4365] on 21.10.2014 at 14:09

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 14:01

Written by Ilham on 21.10.2014 at 13:45

7.5 is more than enough for this. People really have to stop thinking every piece of music that doesn't suck deserves a nine out of ten. In this case you have to weigh in the "relevancy" of the album as well. Music is produced in a context, and that context matters. Especially when it comes to Tsjuder, who never had anything new or interesting to add a black metal scene that was booming with innovation in the early 2000s.

Context ? Interesting, so...Black Metal is a fashion ? Which band is in the right context and in the lead now ?

In and around 2003, 2004 and 2005 you had boundary pushing / breaking black metal albums (regardless of whether or not you personally like them) from Drudkh, Blut aus Nord, The Axis of Perdition, Transcending Bizarre?, Dark Tribe, Enslaved, Velvet Cacoon, The Ruins of Beverast, Shining, Sigh, Alcest, The Meads of Asphodel, Ofermod, Lurker of Chalice and many more. There's your context and why this album is worth no more than 7.5. What the current context of black metal is is besides the point and off-topic here.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 14:17

I really don't like you to compare in this way as those bands mentioned tend to mix some "creative" elements in original black style. I like their new styles but I won't say that their "innovatios" shown "improvements". They're totally different and not comparable.

Written by [user id=4365] on 21.10.2014 at 14:09

In and around 2003, 2004 and 2005 you had boundary pushing / breaking black metal albums (regardless of whether or not you personally like them) from Drudkh, Blut aus Nord, The Axis of Perdition, Transcending Bizarre?, Dark Tribe, Enslaved, Velvet Cacoon, The Ruins of Beverast, Shining, Sigh, Alcest, The Meads of Asphodel, Ofermod, Lurker of Chalice and many more. There's your context and why this album is worth no more than 7.5. What the current context of black metal is is besides the point and off-topic here.

Written by [user id=126528] on 21.10.2014 at 21:35

You forgot Deathspell Omega, which released Circumspice this year as well

Written by [user id=4365] on 21.10.2014 at 14:22

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 21.10.2014 at 14:17

I really don't like you to compare in this way as those bands mentioned tend to mix some "creative" elements in original black style. I like their new styles but I won't say that their "innovatios" shown "improvements". They're totally different and not comparable.

Of course they're comparable. Many, if not most, of those bands have basically the same origins of style compared to Tsjuder, i.e. black metal, and those bands are doing far more creative things and showing ingenuity that in some cases have veins of influence that can be seen today because of them (your "improvement" in a way; making new paths for overly-tread black metal routes is an improvement). On the other hand Desert Northern Hell isn't even a footnote in black metal. Its history will show that it was a good album for fans of traditional black metal and nothing more because it didn't "improve" on anything, only replicated what was already done. Nothing special whatsoever, and this review records exactly that. Even if many of these bands play different styles of black metal it shows you the climate, the "context," of black metal at the time and how Tsjuder were not relevant in any way.

On a personal note I don't like this album, not my kind of thing at all. This kind of generic "norsecore" black metal should have died a long time before this album emerged. The mere existence of Funeral Mist's 'Salvation' renders this album totally pointless really.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 23.10.2014 at 10:54

I'm talking about the 2nd wave of black metal and you're commparing them with the 3rd wave..., the 3rd wave is not really mature and still evolving at the moment...
We are not in the same universe/ context.

Written by [user id=4365] on 23.10.2014 at 12:39

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 23.10.2014 at 10:54

I'm talking about the 2nd wave of black metal and you're commparing them with the 3rd wave..., the 3rd wave is not really mature and still evolving at the moment...
We are not in the same universe/ context.

Incorrect: it's the long-standing existence of second wave black metal which renders this album so unoriginal. By me saying this has been done before I am implying, and indirectly referencing, second wave black metal (and so was this review in a more direct way). This album should be compared to the climate it was originally made in, and this was not released back when second wave black metal was new and interesting; it was released when second wave black metal was tired and without ideas (exactly what this album is) and effectively obsolete. Try to think about what you're saying before you type it, or at least about concepts of originality when referenced in reviews.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 23.10.2014 at 13:01

Planet A :
"...it was released when second wave black metal was " TIRED " and " WITHOUT IDEAS " (exactly what this album is) and effectively " OBSOLETE "..."
Planet B :
I am still Not Tired of 2nd wave of black metal even in year 2014 !
This album is still considered Full of Ideas, I didn't find it repeating or copying any black album in the past therefore it was so Damn Great !
This is not pop so it can't be Obsolete.

See, we're not in the same universe.

Written by [user id=4365] on 23.10.2014 at 13:06

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 23.10.2014 at 13:01

Planet A :
"...it was released when second wave black metal was " TIRED " and " WITHOUT IDEAS " (exactly what this album is) and effectively " OBSOLETE "..."
Planet B :
I am still Not Tired of 2nd wave of black metal even in year 2014 !
This album is still considered Full of Ideas, I didn't find it repeating or copying any black album in the past therefore it was so Damn Great !
This is not pop so it can't be Obsolete.

See, we're not in the same universe.

Doesn't really matter when the reviewer is in the same universe as pretty much everyone else. Effective reviews take in consideration all areas of thought and that's why this album gets no more than a 7.5: he agrees this is a very good old-school black metal album for what it is but that its total lack of originality and new ideas means it gets nothing higher (and in my opinion an album such as this would never get higher). If we were to go with your methods reviews would be rendered totally useless.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 23.10.2014 at 13:59

This would be the most popular trend for now and forever !