Written by Slyfang on 27.02.2010 at 21:05

i STOPPED already, so shut up. and no it isn't all subjective

Opinions can only be subjective... what else could they be?

Written by Slyfang on 27.02.2010 at 21:05

i STOPPED already, so shut up. and no it isn't all subjective

so shut up? me? you are the one with a handful of useless posts in this review huh? sorry, i posted within 10 minutes of your last ... there was no clear cut "i'm done here" remark on your end, and your discussion is going in on the thread regarding the review i posted. i don't see what's wrong with me retorting.

and please tell me what objective forms of rating music exist. i am eager to hear.

Written by BitterCOld on 28.02.2010 at 01:26

Written by Slyfang on 27.02.2010 at 21:05

i STOPPED already, so shut up. and no it isn't all subjective

so shut up? me? you are the one with a handful of useless posts in this review huh? sorry, i posted within 10 minutes of your last ... there was no clear cut "i'm done here" remark on your end, and your discussion is going in on the thread regarding the review i posted. i don't see what's wrong with me retorting.

and please tell me what objective forms of rating music exist. i am eager to hear.

yes, shut up as in i don't appreciate your condescending sarcasm. i admit i explained myself very badly and wrote carelessly. the "i'm done here" was clear cut enough for the person i was talking to earlier when i admitted my mistake.. there was no need for you to start poking

as for how to judge music objectively, i shouldn't have to explain it to you. objective doesn't mean being based on cold empirical fact, objective means detached, unbiased, it means judging something for what it is, and not looking at something through the distorted lens of preference. objective criticism looks at progression, structure, technical and harmonic achievement, innovation, creativity, lyrical skill and more, all within proper context of course, and within the context of music in general if needed.. it doesn't have to be perfect. in reality most objective judgements have something subjective in them, but you know what i mean

now enough. no need to waste more space here

Written by Slyfang on 28.02.2010 at 06:40

...as for how to judge music objectively, i shouldn't have to explain it to you. objective doesn't mean being based on cold empirical fact, objective means detached, unbiased, it means judging something for what it is, and not looking at something through the distorted lens of preference. objective criticism looks at progression, structure, techical and harmonic achievement, innovation, creativity, lyrical skill and more, all within proper context of course, and within the context of music in general if needed.. it doesn't have to be perfect. in reality most objective judgements have something subjective in them, but you know what i mean...

This is great. The explanation is perfect or at least it's a very good try; the only thing that mars it is the fact that you missed 'n' in 'technical'.

@Slyfang: The moment music is judged "objectively" by physical skill and structured/uber-technical ability is the moment you know music as we know it is dead. Your criteria for judging music with objectivity pretty much contradicts a vast majority of punk rock, and I bet I can find a couple hundred thousand people on this planet who would disagree with you.

You were wrong, admit it and knock off the overly-defencive back pedalling. Sometimes condescending sarcasm is warranted.

Im enjoying this album very much...also agree with what Konrad said - the album is pushing metal into new avenues and experimenting and evolving which I think is great. Ihsahn is trying his hand once more at marrying different styles of music into a very coherent whole, with impressive lyrics, and interesting concept and musicianship which as always is supreme. This is what I call interesting metal and what Ive always meant when talking about my preference to bands not stagnating. I love this..

Written by Slyfang on 28.02.2010 at 06:40

objective means detached, unbiased, it means judging something for what it is, and not looking at something through the distorted lens of preference.

Humans are incapable of doing this. Especially with something as subjective as musical enjoyment.

Written by Baz Anderson on 01.03.2010 at 01:09

Written by Slyfang on 28.02.2010 at 06:40

objective means detached, unbiased, it means judging something for what it is, and not looking at something through the distorted lens of preference.

Humans are incapable of doing this. Especially with something as subjective as musical enjoyment.

well i wasn't talking about simply enjoying music, by objective i meant of course fairly judging the music, based on the music itself, not one's own expectations or emotions only, which humans are definitely capable of. for example understand why opera is a great form of music, but i just don't enjoy listening to it. i'm not attacking you, simply explaining what i was talking about

Good stuff. A 9 from me. Got into it fairly quickly... need to check his earlier releases...

The only album in the top 20 of 2010 at the moment that I truly believe should stay there in the end. Very well done...this may even crack the top 5 for me!

I play the saxophone myself and I thought that incorporation was killer; not too self indulgent or detracting but providing an interesting atmosphere as the original reviewer suggested. Great work, Ihsahn!

Rating (compared to 2010 so far): 10.
Actual Rating compared to all metal: 8.8.

Oh, and this goes out to Baz and Slyfang and every one else arguing over the stupidest stuff... STFU and enjoy the music.

Written by [user id=100467] on 31.05.2010 at 23:55

Oh, and this goes out to Baz and Slyfang and every one else arguing over the stupidest stuff... STFU and enjoy the music.

Hey, thanks for responding to an argument that is, what, 90 days gone now? nice work, we really needed that input.

Written by BitterCOld on 01.06.2010 at 00:00

Written by [user id=100467] on 31.05.2010 at 23:55

Oh, and this goes out to Baz and Slyfang and every one else arguing over the stupidest stuff... STFU and enjoy the music.

Hey, thanks for responding to an argument that is, what, 90 days gone now? nice work, we really needed that input.

Ahahahaha...nice sarcasm. I just find that whole sort of argument to be pretentious and interfering. When I want to look through comments I want to look at different reactions to the music, the good and bad qualities of the review, and other recommendations or similar artists.

Anyway, I quite enjoyed the album and this review actually summed it up pretty nicely. Ihsahn's song-writing is quite amazing and surprisingly coherent; it could have been a disaster, but he honed in his sound and kept it from becoming repetitive to me. I also like, as you addressed, After, which was almost a ballad. The fresh ways of changing his sound and keeping the listener's attention make this one of the most coherent works in 2010 I have come across. I also enjoyed Alcest's newest, although that is in a completely different category. Both managed to make fresh, interesting metal, and I certainly can't wait to see the other works that come to the same level of quality in 2010. Nice review.

Written by Konrad on 26.02.2010 at 10:02

I respect the review and think BitterC0ld was fair in giving Ihsahn an 8. I gave the album a 10, because I think it helps the metal genre enter an entirely new area. The sax was also used in the drowned at sea 3 pt. epic from nachtmystium...so it isn't anything new...but as a jazz fan who has always thought the instruments, musicianship, and overall song structure were similar b/t jazz and metal...this album is the beginning of the two genres starting to merge. I respect Ihsahn for what he has done throughout his entire career. He not only produced what is arguably one of the best black metal albums of all time (welkin...) but has now arguably written, recorded, and mastered an album that carries metal into the new decade.

Coming from someone who lives in the city of jazz, what Ihsahn has accomplished here is far from pretentious. He was innovative with his concepts and has invited countless musicians to enter the world of metal. Thank you Ihsahn!

Sorry, but I have to remind you some snippets of jazz/metal lore (among others)
- Pan.Thy.Monium had a sax since the very beginning (1991). Totally not in a jazz way, but still.
- Both Cynic (check Focus) and Atheist (check Unquestionable Presence) used jazz song structures and playing in the early nineties.
While these examples are not the only ones, they do show that the jazz/metal fusion is nothing new. I don't say this to critisize Ihsahn, on the contrary, because he does this in his own, personal way, which is always nice.

Why does this album have the lowest rating of Ihsahn's albums (I'm talking about overall, not just this review)?
It's the best, imo

Written by Auntie Sahar on 02.10.2011 at 17:56
imo

Because all votes are based on opinion. And majority rules.