Written by Guest on 25.09.2010 at 12:00

Written by RavenKing on 25.09.2010 at 03:39

I think the only band from Finland I'm listening to is Catamenia (until Location:Cold).

And most of the bands on the list are mainstream and barely metal, indeed, from my point of view.

Mainstream metal is still metal. Genres have nothing to do with popularity and everything to do with music. If Cannibal Corpse sold a hundred times more that wouldn't make them pop. Because pop is in fact a genre of it's own with (great) bands such as R.E.M., The Cure, Poets of the Fall etc.

Difference is Cannibal Corpse sound like nothing else than metal. Bands like Nightwish and Sonata Arctica sound like pop music. Even if CC were ten times more popular than Nightwish and SA, their music would still be a hundred times more metal than them.

Written by RavenKing on 25.09.2010 at 16:09

Difference is Cannibal Corpse sound like nothing else than metal. Bands like Nightwish and Sonata Arctica sound like pop music. Even if CC were ten times more popular than Nightwish and SA, their music would still be a hundred times more metal than them.

There is no such thing as more metal and less metal. Melodic metal is every bit as metal as brutal death. Cannibal Corpse is actually a lot further from the early metal bands like Zeppelin, Rainbow and Sabbath, than anything Sonata Arctica has ever done.

Written by Guest on 26.09.2010 at 14:17

Written by RavenKing on 25.09.2010 at 16:09

Difference is Cannibal Corpse sound like nothing else than metal. Bands like Nightwish and Sonata Arctica sound like pop music. Even if CC were ten times more popular than Nightwish and SA, their music would still be a hundred times more metal than them.

There is no such thing as more metal and less metal. Melodic metal is every bit as metal as brutal death. Cannibal Corpse is actually a lot further from the early metal bands like Zeppelin, Rainbow and Sabbath, than anything Sonata Arctica has ever done.

Total nonsense. So, for you, the more it sounds like some old 70s bands, the more metal it is, only because they were there so many years ago? Stupid reasoning. No logic at all.

Led Zeppelin were not metal in the first place. It's progressive hard rock. Precursors of metal but not metal themselves. As if Brutal death can be less metal than cheesy flowermetal... Geez, I wonder what kind of drugs people are taking nowadays to be so fucked up in their head.

And some things are definitely more metal than others. Everyone knows about it, apart from you and the few others who have been living in a cocoon for the last 40 years.

I checked your list of bands and it's obvious you enjoy only soft metal. There is some metal bands in your list but also non-metal bands. I don't mind if you like soft music, it's your own right. But, if you start spewing such nonsense as what we can read in your last post, expect some people will completely disagree with you.

Also, it's a fact, not an opinion, that genres like Thrash, Death, Black, Doom Metal are much farther from pop rock than genres like traditional Heavy Metal and Powermetal can be. Just try making non-metal fans listen to Heavy Metal or Powermetal, then put some Thrash, Death or Black Metal and check their reaction.

Let these people be, Raven, the open-mindedness/genre equality/etc. arguments are getting stale.

However, they are a good source of humor.

Written by vezzy on 26.09.2010 at 14:53

Let these people be, Raven, the open-mindedness/genre equality/etc. arguments are getting stale.

However, they are a good source of humor.

You know, I really start thinking this kind of people don't worth wasting time replying to them. Their ideas make no sense at all but it seems explications are futile because the switch will never turn on in their head. We should leave them to their delusions, indeed.

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 14:45

Total nonsense. So, for you, the more it sounds like some old 70s bands, the more metal it is, only because they were there so many years ago? Stupid reasoning. No logic at all.

No. I never said anything about what metal should sound like, you did. I pointed out, that the first metal bands did not use death grunts, so your idea that Cannibal Corpse is more metal than say Dream Theater or Kamelot is rubbish, because it is not even taking into account metal's origins. And as I said before: there is no "more metal" and "less metal". There is metal and then there is non-metal.

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As if Brutal death can be less metal than cheesy flowermetal.

No, it cannot. That was my point actually, stop stealing. Your argument was that bands CAN be more and less metal than others.

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Geez, I wonder what kind of drugs people are taking nowadays to be so fucked up in their head.

As if there were any drugs out there that you weren't familiar with.

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And some things are definitely more metal than others. Everyone knows about it, apart from you and the few others who have been living in a cocoon for the last 40 years.

So brutal death can be less metal then? Umm...I am confused here.

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I checked your list of bands and it's obvious you enjoy only soft metal. There is some metal bands in your list but also non-metal bands.

The only non-metal bands in my favorites are Guns N' Roses and Gary Moore. Everything else is metal.

Let's end it right there. I'm already bored out of my mind.

How come no one on Metalstorm knows how to end a conversation without sacrificing their dignity and credibilty?

Brutal death metal is more abrasive, down-tuned and generally less accessible than power metal, especially the European variety which is softer, much more melodic (whether in a good way or not), very accessible and a definite contender for the label "pop metal".

So yes, it is "more metal", though that really isn't a good way to describe it.

Extremity and abrasiveness generally take time to get into (although you can like it from the moment you hear it as well) as the mainstream and general consensus when it comes to music likes simpler, melodic and catchier songs, whereas extreme metal defies these concepts.

Written by vezzy on 26.09.2010 at 15:30

Brutal death metal is more abrasive, down-tuned and generally less accessible than power metal, especially the European variety which is softer, much more melodic (whether in a good way or not), very accessible and a definite contender for the label "pop metal".

1)Pop metal would be Def Leppard. And they sound nothing like power, symponic or prog.
2)Melodic music is not pop music, pop music is pop music. There are many genres that are more melodic than your average pop artist. The idea that symphonic scores and orchestral arrangements bring bands closer to pop is self-evidently ludicrous.

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So yes, it is "more metal", though that really isn't a good way to describe it.

Then it is your job to explain why brutal death is "more metal" than power, symphonic or prog. In my mind, it is just as metal, simply heavier.

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Extremity and abrasiveness generally take time to get into (although you can like it from the moment you hear it as well) as the mainstream and general consensus when it comes to music likes simpler, melodic and catchier songs, whereas extreme metal defies these concepts.

Generally speaking, symphonic metal defies simplicity at least as much as brutal death does. Writing orchestral parts to go with your riffs is about as far from simple as you can get.

True, glam can also be pop metal. But keyboard melodies and some mildly hard guitar riffs drained in them can also fit.

Ah, heavier. Yeah, that's the word that I was going to mention, but you beat me to it. Still, it is far more abrasive, intense, distorted, the imagery is macabre and grotesque usually, and when compared to the relative tameness and accessibility of European power, a lot of prog (it depends on what, if it's prog death/thrash, then maybe, maybe not) and symphonic. Though European power uses symphonic/orchestral elements as well, not the classic melodic speed metal though.

Many times it interferes with the guitar however, as the keyboard and orchestral parts override the riffs or they're simply basic and uninspired. Couple that with a falsetto or soprano rather than a growler or grunter, and it's quite easy to get into.

Written by vezzy on 26.09.2010 at 16:46

Many times it interferes with the guitar however, as the keyboard and orchestral parts override the riffs or they're simply basic and uninspired.

It's my opinion that lots of those so-called symphonic metal bands use those orchestral artifices to hide that they're basically mediocre metal bands. I mean, guitars, bass and drums are quite generic and not technical at all, so they try to draw the attention of the listener on other elements. It's also true for tons of Folk Metal bands.

Anyway, I don't like symphonic metal, even if I like metal and symphonic/classical music. Reason is, imo, when you mix them, you water down both of them.

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:00
It's my opinion that lots of those so-called symphonic metal bands use those orchestral artifices to hide that they're basically mediocre metal bands. I mean, guitars, bass and drums are quite generic and not technical at all, so they try to draw the attention of the listener on other elements. It's also true for tons of Folk Metal bands.

Totally agree with this. It sounds so majestic and makes many people pay less attention to the actual standard rock/metal instrumentation.

Written by vezzy on 26.09.2010 at 17:09

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:00
It's my opinion that lots of those so-called symphonic metal bands use those orchestral artifices to hide that they're basically mediocre metal bands. I mean, guitars, bass and drums are quite generic and not technical at all, so they try to draw the attention of the listener on other elements. It's also true for tons of Folk Metal bands.

Totally agree with this. It sounds so majestic and makes many people pay less attention to the actual standard rock/metal instrumentation.

Many fans of symphonic metal admit themselves that they usually don't like metal and listen to those bands because of the orchestral elements. In fact, many of them don't really care for the metal element. It's not the metal element they're looking for in music.

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:20

Written by vezzy on 26.09.2010 at 17:09

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:00
It's my opinion that lots of those so-called symphonic metal bands use those orchestral artifices to hide that they're basically mediocre metal bands. I mean, guitars, bass and drums are quite generic and not technical at all, so they try to draw the attention of the listener on other elements. It's also true for tons of Folk Metal bands.

Totally agree with this. It sounds so majestic and makes many people pay less attention to the actual standard rock/metal instrumentation.

Many fans of symphonic metal admit themselves that they usually don't like metal and listen to those bands because of the orchestral elements. In fact, many of them don't really care for the metal element. It's not the metal element they're looking for in music.

then go to opera , buy operatic CD's

Let's all just get over ourselves. Metal is metal, no way around it.

Written by vezzy on 26.09.2010 at 16:46

Many times it interferes with the guitar however, as the keyboard and orchestral parts override the riffs or they're simply basic and uninspired. Couple that with a falsetto or soprano rather than a growler or grunter, and it's quite easy to get into.

No one - at least not me - has ever disputed that European power metal is easy to get into. Especially when they release very commercial singles. The difference between Nemo and Ghost Love Score or Don't Say a word and White Pearl, Black Oceans however, is gigantic.

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:00

It's my opinion that lots of those so-called symphonic metal bands use those orchestral artifices to hide that they're basically mediocre metal bands. I mean, guitars, bass and drums are quite generic and not technical at all, so they try to draw the attention of the listener on other elements.

Or it could just be that they like what it sounds like when they mix orchestral elements with metal. But believe what you will.

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:20

Many fans of symphonic metal admit themselves that they usually don't like metal and listen to those bands because of the orchestral elements. In fact, many of them don't really care for the metal element. It's not the metal element they're looking for in music.

Then isn't it odd, that I listen to thrash, hard rock, heavy, power, prog, death, melodeath, black, folk, industrial, gothic and I still like symphonic metal most? I must be awesome.

Written by Guest on 26.09.2010 at 19:38

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 17:00

It's my opinion that lots of those so-called symphonic metal bands use those orchestral artifices to hide that they're basically mediocre metal bands. I mean, guitars, bass and drums are quite generic and not technical at all, so they try to draw the attention of the listener on other elements.

Or it could just be that they like what it sounds like when they mix orchestral elements with metal. But believe what you will.

Or some of them simply have this nerdy and snobbish attitude to consider that everything orchestral, bombastic and pretentious is pure genius and more mature. (just read Luca Turilli's interviews for an example)

By the way, it requires no special talent to compose generic flowermetal music, put Nintendo sounding keyboards over it, throw a few trumpets or whatever here and there, and then call the result symphonic metal. Everyone can pile layers over layers of orchestral shit and drown everything under orchestrations and keyboards. From my point of view, it requires more talent to write a memorable guitar riff than pile layers of cheese.

Of course, there is well-done symphonic stuff in metal but some people tend to automatically consider symphonic stuff as genius and awesome, which is far from the truth.

Written by RavenKing on 26.09.2010 at 19:50

Or some of them simply have this nerdy and snobbish attitude to consider that everything orchestral, bombastic and pretentious is pure genius and more mature. (just read Luca Turilli's interviews for an example)

Frankly, I don't care about attitudes. So long as Turilli keeps writing good music and playing cool solos, he can think whatever the hell he wants.

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By the way, it requires no special talent to compose generic flowermetal music, put Nintendo sounding keyboards over it, throw a few trumpets or whatever here and there, and then call the result symphonic metal.

There are horrible bands in every damn genre. It's not difficult to growl: DEAAATH! MUTILATIOOOON! either, but you don't see me bashing the brutal genre just because it is easy to suck at it.

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Everyone can pile layers over layers of orchestral shit and drown everything under orchestrations and keyboards. From my point of view, it requires more talent to write a memorable guitar riff than pile layers of cheese.

And everyone can growl: DEAAAAATH! MUTILATIOOOON! GENOCIIIIDE! BARBARA STREISEEEEND! By the way, I can prove this by growling into a mic, recording some crappy riffs and uploading the result to Youtube. Can you write a piece of symphonic metal and do the same?

Get this into your head: no metal genre is inherently superior to another. Good death beats bad symphonic, good symphonic beats bad death. Try and argue this if you can.

P.S. You do not want me to upload a video where I growl: MUTILATIOOOOON!

Holy Bloody Satan... You forgot Kalmah my friend, so I voted others !

My Fave finnish band would be them... followed closely by Finntroll which you also forgot to mention and was pretty obvious
Anyways Kalmah's melodies are always good and flows well in my ears..

Oh and Yeah about the stupid debate going on here...
How can you guys argue about music taste ? Like its nonsense from the beginning
Nobody will admit hes wrong... since its a question of tastes and musical beliefs...

Other because for me other = INSOMNIUM

Wintersun

Wintersun

Well. Half of my favorite bands are Finnish bands. Can't pick between children

Im gonna choose Other and pick Demigod, There first album "Slumber of Sullen Eyes" is superior to anything on this list IMO.

Not the best possible options to choose from. Well maybe these are known bands but quality of their releases is questionable (except Moonsorrow and Amorphis). My vote goes for Axegressor and A.R.G. or if it must be a known band, then it would be Kalmah.

Wintersun

^ [insert "are you fucking kidding me" meme]