Written by Ilham on 23.12.2014 at 13:22

But for now, just remember the difference between Doom and Hatebreed and you'll be able to differentiate between at least 50% of what you see called hardcore or hardcore punk.

Would you say the tags for Hatebreed are accurate? MS has them under metalcore + hardcore

Cryptopsy has technical death metal from 2007 onward. I think that should be changed to (2012 - ) since The Unspoken King is labelled as deathcore and that was released in 2008 and the release before that is (2005) is bdm. Just seems redundant.

Written by LeKiwi on 23.12.2014 at 13:40

Would you say the tags for Hatebreed are accurate? MS has them under metalcore + hardcore

Oh I didn't see there was the metalcore tag. I don't remember hearing any to be honest, especially in the early stuff. But I have to go through their whole discog again, the last time I did that was in 2007 or something. I'll do that today and I post my "assessment" .

Written by Ilham on 23.12.2014 at 13:50

Oh I didn't see there was the metalcore tag. I don't remember hearing any to be honest, especially in the early stuff. But I have to go through their whole discog again, the last time I did that was in 2007 or something. I'll do that today and I post my "assessment" .

Looking forward to hearing it

Written by LeKiwi on 23.12.2014 at 13:51

Looking forward to hearing it

Yeah okay, I understand where the metalcore tag for Hatebreed comes from. It refers to the original meaning of the term. It was used for bands that were mixing a very metallic sound to hardcore punk bases (exactly like Hatebreed), but the word now is used for stuff that sounds more like Killswitch Engage. Same problem. We have a term that has an original meaning, and got derailed. It's a matter of choice for the staff, because technically Hatebreed do play "real" metalcore, but the term must be confusing now, since bands tagged metalcore now are extremely different:

Example:

Written by LeKiwi on 21.12.2014 at 22:07

I've deleted all the following comments and put them all into one post:

...and Devin Townsend's Addicted is progressive industrial metal and Ki is progressive industrial metal + atmospheric (progressive) rock...or something like that...I'm not too sure about the latter Perhaps change the progressive industrial metal tag to 1996-2009 and add some rock thing to Ki.

Saturnian sounds quite similar to modern Dimmu, so their styles should be the same, whether that's extreme symphonic or symphonic black.

done, I mean Saturnian, Devin I wont deal whit let his experts and fans do I never even have hear anything from him
others, give me time I will walk true, but I don't promise anything

Written by Bad English on 23.12.2014 at 16:40

done, I mean Saturnian, Devin I wont deal whit let his experts and fans do I never even have hear anything from him
others, give me time I will walk true, but I don't promise anything

Awesome Can you fix Cryptopsy, All Pigs Must Die, and God Macabre? They're the most obvious changes

Also, Cryptopsy's The Unspoken King should be technical deathcore imo.

Written by LeKiwi on 23.12.2014 at 17:08

Also, Cryptopsy's The Unspoken King should be technical deathcore imo.

I didn't say I will fix all, I need to try and Devils Blood PM marcel, he is bands fan (well Lex said he is) I dunno that band so well, I need listen

Written by LeKiwi on 23.12.2014 at 08:41

3 things

God Macabre - Fixed once I fixed the styles

Jason Newsted - Done

All Pigs Must Die - Done. And it's funny y'all talking about Hardcore vs Hardcore Punk and Industrial vs Industrial Metal, Hardcore is also used to refer to Gabber - which is NOTHING like modern metallic Hardcore or Hardcore Punk.

Written by psykometal on 23.12.2014 at 19:22

And it's funny y'all talking about Hardcore vs Hardcore Punk and Industrial vs Industrial Metal, Hardcore is also used to refer to Gabber - which is NOTHING like modern metallic Hardcore or Hardcore Punk.

Yeah I've heard it's mostly used in England. You ask for the name of a hardcore venue and you end up in techno club.

But what's your take on hardcore/hardcore punk? From the first page of visible bands with the "hardcore" tags, I see no apparent problem as the ones who have the "punk" vibe are labelled as such. So I guess we just go on making the distinction as MS always have?

I'm sorry Kiwi I didn't make the effort to see if the distinction was respected on MS before starting that chain of posts.

Written by psykometal on 23.12.2014 at 19:22

Written by LeKiwi on 23.12.2014 at 08:41

3 things

God Macabre - Fixed once I fixed the styles

Jason Newsted - Done

All Pigs Must Die - Done. And it's funny y'all talking about Hardcore vs Hardcore Punk and Industrial vs Industrial Metal, Hardcore is also used to refer to Gabber - which is NOTHING like modern metallic Hardcore or Hardcore Punk.

what did he asked about Newstad?

Disillusion - put extreme prog
Jucifer - let staff do it
Schammasch - MC Vice and Ilham discussed it I did not saw conclusion
Atejist stays
Nero Di Marte - dunno band, have no clue , I wish new style mutant bands would have new genre mutan metal where goes djent, math, prog rock anything what has no standard
Aeternam - cant be oriental, its not middle east
Myrath - done
MaYaN - stays same, I dunno either
Sunpocrisy - done
Samael album - sounds like Symphonic BM to me, edd
Whispered - I don't think so

Written by Ilham on 23.12.2014 at 19:52

I'm sorry Kiwi I didn't make the effort to see if the distinction was respected on MS before starting that chain of posts.

I'm not sure what you did wrong, so no worries

Ancient Ascendant - I remember one day in the past bane members edited this band and Lex send them PM

Written by Bad English on 23.12.2014 at 20:50

Disillusion - put extreme prog
Jucifer - let staff do it
Schammasch - MC Vice and Ilham discussed it I did not saw conclusion
Atejist stays
Nero Di Marte - dunno band, have no clue , I wish new style mutant bands would have new genre mutan metal where goes djent, math, prog rock anything what has no standard
Aeternam - cant be oriental, its not middle east
Myrath - done
MaYaN - stays same, I dunno either
Sunpocrisy - done
Samael album - sounds like Symphonic BM to me, edd
Whispered - I don't think so

Cheers for those edits

The front-man is from the Middle East as far as I'm aware. Have a listen to this - sounds pretty oriental to me:



For Sunpocrisy, you can remove atmospheric sludge; post-metal pretty much covers that. Also, the prog death tag should be (2007-2011) and a progressive metalcore tag should be added (2012-).

I think Far Eastern folk is an integral part of Whispered's sound. Check this out (or any track of any of their albums):

@BE Read back to see Kiwi comment about Jason.

@Ilham Hardcore is also the common term for Gabber in the States; I've never heard the term Gabber used here, always Hardcore. My first experience with Gabber was due to a confusion over a then coworker telling me he likes Hardcore (which I was really into modern metallic Hardcore atm) and I'm thinking Hatebreed and so I was surprised when he gave me a list of Hardcore bands that if never heard of - I thought he was one of those Hardcore super nerds. Lol. Boy was I surprised to discover that what he gave me was a list of "techno" bands. I went back to him all like "Wtf, dude?! That shit ain't hardcore!" Haha! Funnily enough he had no clue what I was talking about with Hardcore. We then had a discussion in which we explained to each other what our respective Hardcores were. Lol

Written by psykometal on 23.12.2014 at 21:55

@BE Read back to see Kiwi comment about Jason.

can not find it

Written by Bad English on 23.12.2014 at 23:45

can not find it

Written by LeKiwi on 23.12.2014 at 08:41

IR8 needs to be removed from Jason Newsted's profile. He was only part of Sexoturica which wrote a compilation with IR8.

Written by psykometal on 23.12.2014 at 21:55

@BE Read back to see Kiwi comment about Jason.

@Ilham Hardcore is also the common term for Gabber in the States; I've never heard the term Gabber used here, always Hardcore. My first experience with Gabber was due to a confusion over a then coworker telling me he likes Hardcore (which I was really into modern metallic Hardcore atm) and I'm thinking Hatebreed and so I was surprised when he gave me a list of Hardcore bands that if never heard of - I thought he was one of those Hardcore super nerds. Lol. Boy was I surprised to discover that what he gave me was a list of "techno" bands. I went back to him all like "Wtf, dude?! That shit ain't hardcore!" Haha! Funnily enough he had no clue what I was talking about with Hardcore. We then had a discussion in which we explained to each other what our respective Hardcores were. Lol

As far as I understand it gabber is a specific form of hardcore. I don't pretend to know the specifics (probably based on BPM) but gabber is hardcore, but hardcore is not necessarily gabber.

BTW Stievie Young, is not he full time member now in the band?

Written by psykometal on 23.12.2014 at 21:55

@BE Read back to see Kiwi comment about Jason.

peak of a devil ....
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/jason-newsted-has-no-immediate-plans-to-revive-newsted-band-says-mike-mushok/

what to do man put hiatus, broke up? or its bullshit?

Any one else reckon Summoning's last 2 albums have enough orchestration to also be symphonic black? Although Oath Bound's not very black, even by their standards.

Written by M C Vice on 25.12.2014 at 03:26

Any one else reckon Summoning's last 2 albums have enough orchestration to also be symphonic black? Although Oath Bound's not very black, even by their standards.

The last one definitely needs a different tag, but I haven't heard the others. I think symphonic black wouldn't fit because it would remind people of bands in the vein of Dimmu's style. I think orchestral black metal would be better, if that's acceptable to the staff.

Written by LeKiwi on 25.12.2014 at 12:11

Written by M C Vice on 25.12.2014 at 03:26

I think symphonic black wouldn't fit because it would remind people of bands in the vein of Dimmu's style. I think orchestral black metal would be better, if that's acceptable to the staff.

Not necesseraly. Emperor were also symphonic black and don't sound like Dimmu Borgir. And since Dimmu use an orchestra these days, having both symphonic and orchestral black metal styles might be confusing.

Written by M C Vice on 25.12.2014 at 13:04

Written by LeKiwi on 25.12.2014 at 12:11

Written by M C Vice on 25.12.2014 at 03:26

I think symphonic black wouldn't fit because it would remind people of bands in the vein of Dimmu's style. I think orchestral black metal would be better, if that's acceptable to the staff.

Not necesseraly. Emperor were also symphonic black and don't sound like Dimmu Borgir. And since Dimmu use an orchestra these days, having both symphonic and orchestral black metal styles might be confusing.

in those days we did not have such mess up genre definitions as nowadays
I agree whit you about Summoning, I might look into it at eve

@BE It's legit, so put in as break up for now.

@Vice/Kiwi Vice is right about symph black having a fairly wide range of meaning, so symph black is good enough. Plus there is no orch metal sub, and symph and orch are basically the same thing anyway, so that will just create a needless discussion about how the 2 are supposed to be different.

My bad, I was half asleep when I replied. I just realised symphonic and orchestral are basically the same word

Intronaut's styles seem to have some redundancy - atmospheric sludge and post-metal are mutually exclusive IMO. I think for the last two albums, atmospheric sludge should be changed to progressive sludge because the band sounds so damn similar to Mastodon. I'm not sure about previous years because I haven't heard much of their music beyond Valley Of Smoke. At the very least, either post-metal or atmospheric sludge should be removed for those years.

It should look something like this:
- Atmospheric sludge (2004 - 2009)
- Progressive sludge (2010 - )

Written by LeKiwi on 28.12.2014 at 09:51

Intronaut's styles seem to have some redundancy - atmospheric sludge and post-metal are mutually exclusive IMO.

Post-metal has evolved beyond sludge metal, which has rendered your definition obsolete (needs a more accurate descriptor). Cult of Luna has both of these tags as well.