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The original post

Posted by Zealot644 on 24.01.2012 at 06:03
This is not a flame thread (Although, it might be inevitable).

I'm young, so maybe I dont know shit. Either way, here's a stupid kids thoughts ^^

I am interested in opinions on having a religion, not having a religion, detesting religions, etc from metal listeners points of view.

To keep it brief:

Things I like about religions:
-Set of rules or philosophies to live by which we adapted into modern society.

This can give people rules to live by that are generally enjoyed by people.

-Amazing historical works and definitely amazing stories.

Not much to say here besides the obvious. I would like to say they are great works of "fiction" but that would mean I would have to openly deny any gods or the likes. Take in what you would like from that.

-Can help people feel like they have a purpose during and after life.

Live your life and die? Or live your life and then go to a so called dream world? Which sounds more appealing ^^? Not to mention we are afraid of death as it is one of our great 'unknowns'

Things I dislike about religions:
-Fanaticism (Including trying to force religions upon others)

Brainwashing, obsession, whatever. I feel the number of people who take it too seriously is far too high - I consider those in this category to be weak minded.

-Wars (Directly related to fanaticism)

Same as above. Weak mindedness.

-Intolerance (Related to the previous two. Basically, the nonacceptance of any religions but one's own)
-Hypocritical at times
-Ignorance of modern day science.

Many years ago when religion and god was 'law' we were okay with that. Our knowledge of the universe was relatively limited and there were many great wonders to us, very much like today. Back then we decided "I dont understand this. I shall call it god." but with today's knowledge of many different things I dont think it is entirely acceptable to stand behind that same shroud of "Oh, it must be god" when we have scientists who are working very hard at making the universe around us make sense and to unlock its true potential for the human race (As destructive and stupid as we can be).

-People still thinking that without books such as the Bible or the Koran we wouldnt have society today in relation to morales, values, laws, etc

To me, saying that humanity is incapable of doing anything on our own without dusty old books written by nomadic desert tribes thousands of years ago is quite simply insulting.

My viewpoints on the matter?

I will try and keep this as unbiased as possible, but that is prettymuch impossible with an opinion. Anyways, I feel that religion is good and bad in many ways I have already described. My personal view on whether a person should or shouldnt believe in religion comes down to a couple of considerations which I feel are of utmost importance.

-There has been absolutely zero legitimate proof that an all mighty being(s) exists that created the world and universe as we know it.
-Scientists are finding some absolutely amazing secrets within the universe around us. Despite this, we haven't even scratched the surface of everything out there nor have we been able to prove that there wasn't some sort of being that created everything as we know it.
-As we have learned, intricate things REQUIRE intelligent design.
-If we were intelligently designed by something, what made it, and it, and it...
-The concept of suddenly 'existing' or even the concept of 'existence' is still far beyond us.
-We still cannot describe the 'human condition' of conciousness with any clarity.

TL;DR - Personally I think that you are a fool to either:
A)Believe entirely in religion without ever questioning the existence of a celestial being who nobody has ever been able to prove exists.
B)Believe entirely against religion when it has not been disproven by any legitimate means.

IMO a person should be:
C) Undecided, In between, both, etc. You may enjoy aspects of religion and believing in the purpose that it gives you for various things in life, pray to god, etc, but you do not mindlessly follow. And, as a modern and intelligent human, you should question an age old belief that has no completely legitimate proof of its existence but keep in mind that there is no legitimate proof of its non-existence.

Anyways, this has been on my mind a lot recently and I figured here might be an okay spot to discuss it and put out my thoughts on the internet. I'm sure with what I wrote I stepped on a few toes (apologies) and I hope if I did, you come in and debate it. The dawn of the internet is one of mankind's greatest triumphs and should be used to its full potential to advance the human race through the absolute complete sharing of knowledge and opinions. Things that are discussed now could lead to all that much of a better future for your children and mankind.

Page 5 of 5

Troy Killjoy

Posts: 18929
From: Canada

  01.07.2014 at 08:25
(Carried over from the Islam thread.)

Written by deadone on 01.07.2014 at 08:20

Written by Ganondox on 01.07.2014 at 07:24

One question to ask is, is a focus individual freedom actually better? You're tying secularism to individualism, but it should be noted that it can bed aruged that individualist cultures are actually worse off for the average individual because they lack social support, for example mental illness is much, much more rampant in individualist societies as a result. While religions often place less emphasis on personal freedom, they also put more focus on doing more to help others. It's not black and white at all.

People have families, friends etc for support. There's also professional services.

As for rampant mental health, that's a baseless allegation. It could be people are more willing to speak out about their illness than somewhere where they might suffer persecution.

Also secular countries are usually filthy rich so can afford to treat mental health far more than a lot of more religious inclined countries who are often poor and struggle with treating basic disease let alone mental illness.

I work in mental health by the way.

And collectivist groups do tend to hide things more and people are less willing to speak out against bad things due to fear of "rocking the boat." Individuals are often punished for not adhering to group values or for speaking out against group activities.

Indeed pedophilia was often not reported in 1950s-70s due to people not talking about it due to greater emphasis on collective.

I know of instances where pedophiles were known to community but no-one reported to police because it was close knit community and speaking out against a neighbour or relative was viewed as bad form. Indeed charges weren't laid until 40 years later (it was someone I knew).

And the massive amounts of allegations about Christian pedophile rings was also not reported until modern era because it was not acceptable to speak out against Church in the period before the 1970s.

As for religion helping, sure it does. But there's a lot of dodginess involved. The rather timid Church of England for example has been embroiled in child sex scandals as well as been involved in such nasty things as taking children away from their parents because they were poor or black (all with government sanction).

Even the Salvation Army has been rocked with massive allegations of widespread child abuse.

Figured this would be a better place for the discussion at hand.
Prettier than BloodTears.
St. Anger

Posts: 4108
From: Germany

  14.08.2014 at 14:22
Not needed anymore.
"The Bees Made Honey In The Lion's Skull"

Posts: 155
From: USA

  26.07.2016 at 20:59
There are two opposing forces in religion that I think inevitably must be in constant conflict, which is what keeps these faiths "alive," as opposed to ancient Egyptian religion which is just archeaological or whatever (no longer evolving, and no one outside of Nile really is interested in it very much, lol). Those two forces are:

Purity, as in maintaining the traditions and teachings, keeping the religions consistent over time. This is necessary for many reasons, but the most important is probably so Christianity doesn't turn into Billy Bobianity and some guy saying he is Jesus telling everyone to go kill everybody else. Wait? That actually happens, but only on a small scale. A governing body like The Roman Catholic Church has systemic problems, obviously, but they tend to be the same types of problems today as always. Corruption, sure. Fighting with other religions (turf battles I would say). What it probably won't do is devolve into some type of other thing that is totally unpredictable. It's the same flawed beast varying only slightly over the decades, with the occasional Great Schism or Vatican 2.

Practicality as in taking what is useful and kind of conveniently ignoring the rest. Most Catholics I know are very practical in their practice. They go to church, pray and all of that, but birth control? Catholics take some birth control! This is important because something like the RCC just cannot evolve quickly enough to keep up with reality. The problem here is people start sort of doing whatever they want, and where do you draw the line?

"Thou shalt not kill? HA!"

If you start picking and choosing the parts you want to follow then at some point you have people pushing extremes and bad things can happen because they aren't listening to the authorities enough, and you lose consistency and it really does devolve into some weird, secular chaos.

A religion that is too traditional is static. It dies because eventually consistency becomes obsolescence (as in Egyptian religion, like Ra and Osiris). A religion that is too all over the place turns into a cult and grows so rapidly its like a cancer.

Or maybe I'm just full of shit. Probably.

Edit: I got thinking about Islam after I typed this, and I think what we are looking at there is the religion itself is at a different phase of evolution than Christianity. Christians have realized, for example, that there are gay people around (well, 98% of them have, anyway). By and large, I think, a greater proportion of the Islamic world is more conservative in terms of accepting all of these things, so they tend to freak out in ways that Christians did maybe 300-400 years ago.

You have secular Muslims who are pretty much chill with everything, drink alcohol, eat at Wendy's, but they aren't getting all the headlines. Unfortunately for them, and the rest of us, you have a large number of these violent idiots like ISIS/L doing a bunch of stupid shit because they take some extremist ultra-conservative view of it.

I bet if we could look at a crystal ball a hundred years from now the proportion of psycho idiot ISIS/L types would be a lot smaller, basically a fringe like the 700 Club and everyone would simply laugh at them. I hope that's the case, anyway.

I also feel like resource-based economies are volatile and tend towards polarization (power concentrated in a few people at the top). He who has the oil tends to treat everyone like shit, so life is pretty miserable in those places. Even in the US oil is a destructive force, I think. US is diversified, though. We have Tech, for example. What else does Saudi Arabia do? It's a damn desert.

Not only is Islam younger and more conservative, its population is concentrated in basically worthless areas where a handful of people sit on all the wealth. That's a problem.

Posts: 32

Age: 33
From: Bulgaria

  07.08.2016 at 01:37
Its something that was needed before globalization occurred and absolutely harming human advancement in today's age. Without it, we may not exist today but with it - we may not exist tomorrow.

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