Well, this is simple, this thread will just be dealing with the way Metal has evolved. From its beginning, some 30 years ago, or more, to now.

So many things have changed, so many genres, sub genres and bands have been created, thus, Metal music itself has changed. Just to mention some examples, i am especially thinking about Nu Metal, which was supposed to bring about a "revolution" in Metal, or some bands that have totally changed their sound (please dont bash Metallica or In Flames XD).

Personally, i am someone who changes a lot, as a consequence, my tastes in music have really been transformed with time. Because of this, id say i like when things change, i dont like things to remain static and unchanged for a long time. It bores me.
Therefore, i dont mind when some bands try to give their sound something new, which will keep me interesed and curious, as ill always be longing for their next album, to see if something has changed or not. Moreover, i dont think there is a "true metal" genre which would refer to the first Metal bands.
To me, Metal is neither better now than before, nor worse. I dont think i am able to judge, because i like both "oldschool" Metal, and new Metal ( i didnt say "nu" but "new"), eventhough most of my favourite bands are .. kinda new.

There are so many things to say about it, and i am sure many people would disagree with me. This is the reason why id like to ask you how you feel about it. Do you think Metal is improving ? Or on the contrary, decaying ? And dont be afraid of being talkative, give arguments .

Prsonally,all my sadness is metal name is used for sth like nu metal.Worst side of evolution is this.A commercial pop art that is tred to have a relationship with metal.It feels-according to darwin theory- metal's becoming an ape again from mankind.

Well, I don't listen to the radio nor do I watch MTV (I don't have cable), so I have no clue who the current mainstream radio bands are. All I know is that death metal is getting more brutal and grind is strong again.

I definitely think the evolution of metal has headed in a good direction. I know that a lot of people disagree with the creation of nu-metal, however I think that even nu-metal has had a very important part in the evolution of metal. Nu-metal has drawn many new fans over there last decade or so into metal. I am sure that without nu-metal a lot of the younger generation here wouldn't even be listening to metal right now. Whether you like it or not, the commercialised metal genre has done a lot for metal.

Anyway, most of my favourite bands could be considered old school, although there are many newer bands that are original, innovative and generally just very good bands. Change is very important in everything. I don't want to hear Iron Maiden writing the same material over and over again. I don't want to hear another Powerslave album. I want to hear something new from them. I know that a lot of people did not like A Matter of Life and Death, although if Iron Maiden had not progressed with their sound and continued writing Powerslave type material, I think a lot of people would be bored and uninspired by it after a while.

Now, there are a lot of Iron Maiden clone bands, with no originality whatsoever, although there are many newer bands that I think have the potential to be very influential in the metal scene. Things evolve, things progress... if every band were to just be playing old-school type metal, I think their would be a rapid decline within the metal scene pretty quickly.

So therefore, to summarise it, yes, I definitely to agree with the evolution of metal and am quite happy with the way things are going right now.

Nu-metal seems pretty dead, but like I said, I have no clue what the current radio bands are. It seems like these metalcore wannabe bands are the current trend. Oh well. It will pass eventually.

nu metal is dead!
emo you are next!!

We can't talk about metal as a whole only thing. The sub-genres and the bands are taking different directions, some of them are getting better, some others are getting worse, some other bands return to their first releases' sound after a long time, and some others only changed their direction but we can't say if it's good or bad (it's up to everyones opinion). For example, some of the most famous former death/doom and gothic/doom metal bands moved towards to an atmospheric rock direction, examples include Katatonia, Paradise Lost, Anathema, The Gathering, Tristania, Sirenia, Theatre of Tragedy (this one is "industrial" metal now) and many more. That's why we can't say "metal is getting better or worse" only because some bands or some genres.

Well nu metal might not be as big as it was, but nevertheless that doesn't cover the fact that a lot of current metal fans were introduced to metal through nu metal. I remember reading in the old forum's "How did you get into Metal?" (or whatever it was called) thread most of the younger fans got into it through bands like Korn, Slipknot, Disturbed, System of a Down, Killswitch Engage and then they found the more heavier stuff. I mean the airwaves currently seem to be playing mainly metalcore and emo bands, but even some of these bands like Trivium, Bleeding Through etc are introducing people to metal. I know a number of people that were listening to Trivium and from it have now discovered death metal, thrash metal etc.

I can understand were u are comein from with the whole "change" thing but do u not think that bands can change so much that they really arent worth listening to anymore? As for the evolution of metal if u asked me this say around the early ninetys with the emergence of amearican death metal such as death and morbid angel i would say it is amazing as opposed to the glam music that controlled the air ways, but now metal is not evolving imo. It has nothing to evolve into if your not understandin an example is Norweigen Black Metal. I am a huge fan of some of it, but most of it is bands tryin to out do the other with the satanic imagery, and evil deeds, and things of that nature, also in america we have bands movein or "changein" as u put it from a metal style to a more emoish style and i really cant stand that......stuff. A perfect example is Bullet for my Valentine, and Every Time I Die. So i guess what im sayin is metal is at a stand still. It has come a long way for the Blue Cheer, and Sabbath days, but now it has nothing elese to change into, but unlike many genres such as disco and grunge, metal will be around for as long as fans buy albums and listen to their fav. bands weather it be metallica, emperor or even poison lol (joke), metal will always be here for the masses.

Thanks Human error for createing this discussion.

I think the main difference between the 70's and today's metal scene is that now we have way more variety! Back then it was just heavy metal and thrash (begining of the 80's). That's just two genres! Now...

Still, i guess more variety ultimately means 'better', but the quality of music hasn't really progressed OR regressed!

As for the whole nu-metal thing, i think, just like the name suggests, that it is metal wether you like it or not. And it definately serves as a portal to getting people into "better" metal! I started out with Linkin Park and now i even listen to Burzum.

I think if the metal scene continues like it has we should be fine!

I am not a fan of today's metal scene, it is horrible, there are millions of labels and billion of bands, quantity destroyed quality, every idiot can ger record deal and everybody sharing and no body buying.
There are more than 300 metal bands in Serbia, I can say that 5 or 6 are good, and that is encourageing people to creat more and more shit music. We have Nu Metal and we have Emo, the biggest shit in the world.
Mtv is creating bunch of bands, Papa Roach, The Rasmus... Second thing I hate is that metal is becoming trend, I hate when some goth chiks saw me on street with cigaret in one hand and say that I am not romantic!!! Hey people, I am metalhead not St. fuckin Valentine. Everybody care just to buy t-shirt of some new band from some new metal genre and then to appear to pub and say to me that Grave Digger are fags and that their hair is fag too, what kind of crap is that?!?, some emo guy with Rasmus shirt tells me that Grave Digger is gay, that is metal evolution. There are too many sub genres, and scene is huge, in any other ocation it would be good, but we have situation that bands like Destruction and Candlemass played in front of 400 people few mounths ago in Belgrade and on tribute to Marylin Manson came more than 100 people?!?! Metal is becoming trend. I hate most of new bands and all subgenres like gore core, nu industrial core... I dont need evolution, thanx

Indeed that's what i wanted to say.The new guys in the scene somehow misses the sincerity of 80's.Unfortunately pure metal begin to lose.

My favourite metal tends to come from between the time when tech death started, and earlier. I tend to seriously agree with the MS rule joke that most of a band's better material comes from the start of their career, and my favourite bands are generally fairly old (perhaps this is skewed by respect for innovation and/or longevity) or in the case of Deadfall, play in an oldschool manner. Some bands are doing new things which I appreciate (Mastery, instrumental thrash thank you) but Aronax is right, there is a TON of shit out there retreading the same boring steps.

I really do not like the current trend to have punk elements and bs folk elements but I suppose all the good trends (that's an oxymoron as far as I know) are underground and I unfortunately don't know about them. I would really hesitate to judge but I don't think I like where metal is going...

Metal evolution was always a good thing, no matter what side effects it has, for example as said above - Nu. Eventually it will die, coz it is played and done without any sort of a talent, in my humble opinion.

I like and hate the evolution of metal.

I hate it because of nu-metal, most metalcore, stoner metal and all those shits which are more appreciated then old school metal by many (not talking about underground fans).

Then again many bands like Sodom, kreator and Exodus came back with new styles and are doing very well now, and more underground bands are experimenting with styles and becoming better.

Hard to say, since I, like many others around don't have more than around 5 years since we're into metal. So, at least for me, technically, metal started when i got into it, and everything before that time, is..let's say, a lot of catching up to do ... And listening to Mercyful fate alongside Nile or Diablo Swing Orchestra can be pretty confusing, as the diversity in today's metal is a ..good thing.. in..a..democratic.. point of wiew..i guess, but can ultimately alter one's sense of prespective, and general view..

Written by darksun on 17.02.2007 at 02:24

Prsonally,all my sadness is metal name is used for sth like nu metal.Worst side of evolution is this.A commercial pop art that is tred to have a relationship with metal.It feels-according to darwin theory- metal's becoming an ape again from mankind.

Written by Guest on 30.04.2007 at 04:35

I hate it because of nu-metal, most metalcore, stoner metal and all those shits which are more appreciated then old school metal by many (not talking about underground fans).

These kind of posts are hilarious. To help you two out of your dream, playing nu-metal, metalcore or stoner metal require just as much talent as playing "real" metal. Nu-metal is just a subgenre that came from metal that was very different than what metal originally was. That doesn't mean it is by definition bad. Every genre, even american pop music, have artists with talent.

To involve Darwin's theory in this, which is a funny comparision of course. According to Darwin, evolution is not more than adaptation to the surroundings. This happens with different processes, such as selection. Now, has your argument that "according to Darwin's theory metal is becoming an ape again" something to stand on? No, unless all metalheads started to listen to nu-metal because that would increase the surviving rate of our specie. Metalheads obviously didn't do that, for obvious reasons. And I don't see why you have any right to say that nu-metal is like an ape..or something.

Now about the evolution of metal. I think that is going fine. Metal isn't declining and there is still a big fanbase who support the scene proudly. Of course, things changed compared with years ago. Other genres became more popular, or genres became more accessible. Personally I think black metal made a really positive progress. It started with noisy music made by rebellious teenagers(talking about the second wave here now) but now it became a lot more open-minded, and a lot of new (pleasant) subgenres raised from it. Perhaps it is not the future that the original fans hoped for their precious black metal, but personally I am glad with this development. For the other genres, I can only speak for the genres I am into, but besides black metal I cannot really think of another genre that made such a drastic development the last, let's say 10 years.

I like metal evolution, because, almost all the metal I listen exists because of the evolution.
Metal used to be more unite, but now, there is metal for every situation of life and every mood. People who can't relate well to 80's trash, can still find metal that suits for them. I think that is very good.
Main line of metal has always been a bit rebellious, from the wild harley-rider image, evolving to brutal satanic image. Even nu-metal tries to be angry. But I find that the goods thing begun when some bands decided, that they need another direction, evolving to become more grandiose instead of agressive. I am not specialist of metal history, but I know that somewhere in mid-90's, some bands started using symphonic orchestra and choirs, I think Therion was one of the first. This started a new era, as they were not trying to be rough anymore, but beautifully powerful and atmospheric instead. I doubt that oldschool metallers would have quessed, that soon, female opera singers and violin solos will be part of metal.
If metal would have evolved in straight line, keeping to roots and expanding in that direction, instead of spawning many different ways, we wouldn't have for example
Symphonic europower
Epic folk-black
Female fronted gothic metal
Funeral doom
You personally might not like all of these, but these all have a place, and if these genres wouldn't exist, the world of music would be much poorer, there would be unfilled gap. I know I would have nothing to listen to, because I like music that is epic and romantic, the classic,symphonic,folk,atmospheric and so on side is what matters most to me(but ofcourse I need good heavy riffs too). I hope that some bands evolve even more, to be more bombastic and take the symphony further.

About black, it used to be very extreme, but some new melodic black bands can be even sometimescalled beautiful.

Written by Guest on 30.04.2007 at 04:35

I hate it because of nu-metal, most metalcore, stoner metal and all those shits which are more appreciated then old school metal by many (not talking about underground fans).

And you care about this why?

Who cares if someone likes stoner metal more than "old school"?

And anyone who reads that statement carefully realizes the real crux of the problem. It's that they hate genres because OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THEM.

As has been posted by numerous MSers on this and the aforementioned "what got you into metal" thread on the prior incarnation of this forum, Nu-Metal and Metalcore have been 'gateway drugs' for metalheads to discover other genres.

Food for thought there.

And frankly you ought to get off your (tired, boring re-tread) soapbox and give a listen to Sleep or Kyuss. They're stoner metal and they are awesome. Too bad your own prejudices towards fan bases preclude you from ever being able to enjoy these bands...

And that serves the narrow-minded the way he deserves. I recently decided to listen to a band like Hatebreed, despite it being very untr00, and guess what: I quite liked it!

So I second BitterCOld here, just stop caring about what OTHER people think of a band, none of your business. You are closing in yourselves.

Written by BitterCOld on 03.05.2007 at 01:19

Written by Guest on 30.04.2007 at 04:35

I hate it because of nu-metal, most metalcore, stoner metal and all those shits which are more appreciated then old school metal by many (not talking about underground fans).

And you care about this why?

Who cares if someone likes stoner metal more than "old school"?

And anyone who reads that statement carefully realizes the real crux of the problem. It's that they hate genres because OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THEM.

As has been posted by numerous MSers on this and the aforementioned "what got you into metal" thread on the prior incarnation of this forum, Nu-Metal and Metalcore have been 'gateway drugs' for metalheads to discover other genres.

Food for thought there.

And frankly you ought to get off your (tired, boring re-tread) soapbox and give a listen to Sleep or Kyuss. They're stoner metal and they are awesome. Too bad your own prejudices towards fan bases preclude you from ever being able to enjoy these bands...

This poll is about discussing whether you like or dislike the evolution of metal, I just stated my opinion truthfully hoping to get a friendly response.

So what if mainstream metal attracts fans to metal? that's not what this thread is even about, i'd think it's about whether you like the sound and I just simply don't like most metalcore, most stoner metal and I dislike basically all nu metal.

I don't hate bands like that because theyre mainstream, infact none of those styles are mainstream in my town so your comment was pretty dumn, THEY JUST SOUND BAD TO ME! sorry not everyone can have your taste in music.

And what the heck is "get off your soap box" supposed to mean lol? because i'd hate to think a person on this site would have the nerve to insult 70's and 80's metal.

Oh and I don't hate Stoner metal or metalcore (i realize i might've come off as if i hate them), i just don't like their sounds but i can easily respect people who like those styles and the composers, it's just that feeling you have where you want more people to like what you like that i was trying to express.

Re-read your statement, hoss. You didn't denigrate those genres because of artistic reasons. You denigrated them because other people appreciate them more than 'old school' metal.

And the "get off your soap box" comment was directed at you for using the same, boring, tired, played out, no thought involved, disrespect nu-metal/metal core post that I've seen no less than once per week from one board warrior or another...

Seriously, if I played the "MetalStorm Drinking Game" and had to drink a good sized gulp of beer for each time I've read a post bashing NM/MC without a quality supporting statement, in the 2 1/2 years I've been here, I would probably have consumed enough beer to get the state of Rhode Island drunk.


And, finally,

"your comment was pretty dumn... ...not everyone can have your taste."

1. You might want to spell check the word "dumb" next time you decide to direct it at another poster.

2. I don't own either a MetalCore or Nu-Metal release. I don't care for them. I just choose not to bash them. I acknowledge them for what they are - a branch on the metal tree that does not appeal to me - and move on. It's a bit more of a high road than most "true metal" board warriors are willing to take - which I find horribly amusingly because I am willing to bet a huge chunk of them probably discovered "true" metal as a result of getting into nu-metal.

Written by darksun on 17.02.2007 at 02:24

Prsonally,all my sadness is metal name is used for sth like nu metal.Worst side of evolution is this.A commercial pop art that is tred to have a relationship with metal.It feels-according to darwin theory- metal's becoming an ape again from mankind.

gotta agree... because of all those nu genres metal is being confused with cheap pop shit and even worst all that emo scene... but in my opinion true metal is evolving and if you look back to the early banal Heavy/Thrash bands you can see we have made a huge step forward.

@ BitterCold: And how would you know why I dislike Metalcore and Nu- Metal? exactly you have no idea why, I just find it odd that nu-metal is more appreciated then styles like Heavy Metal and thats why i even typed that statment.

Nu-metal and most metalcore (except for God Forbid) don't appeal to me either, that's why i said i didn't like them because that's what this thread is about, saying whether you like evolution of metal. If metalstormers bash these styles why would you care if they did it or not? they are expressing their opinions and most of them hate the sound of nu-metal, not that it's mainstream.

Where I am from no type of metal is really mainstream and I still dislike those styles, why can't you except the fact that some people hate the sound of metalcore, nu metal and stoner metal?

And once again you assume things which arent true, the first metal band i've ever heard was Black Sabbath and the second was Metallica (80's material), that's what got me into metal.

I don't know why you like or dislike Metalcore or nu-metal because prior to now you have never stated why - which is the biggest reason I am wasting my time, and everyone else's, posting with you. You said you didn't like an aspect of metal's evolution. I want to know why, and have been asking 'why?'

The reasons you stated in your initial posts were that you disliked them them because other people liked them more than "old school" metal. That's not a knock against the music - it's a knock against a fanbase.

Disliking a group of people who like a metal genre is NOT the same is disliking the genre itself. Frankly, I don't like a lot of metalheads - but that does nothing to dampen my enjoyment of metal.

Can you not see the difference?

And even NOW you have still not explained WHY you dislike them. "They don't appeal to me" is not exactly a clarifying statement.

Finally, I didn't assume anything in regards to your pathway to metal - I made a general statement. Sorry that flew over your head. Then again, virtually every point I have made has done likewise.

The only thing I can say about the issue is that Metal begin to be repeatitive. New bands tend to sound like old ones.

@BitterCold: Okay, but up in your first post you implyed that I didnt like the styles because theyre mainstream, and I don't see you asking me to explain my opinions anywhere other then your last post. I'll tell you why i don't like the styles and let this be over because we aren't getting through to eachother anyways. I don't like nu-metal because it's hardly metal in the sense that it is a fusion of many styles other then metal and I honestly don't like anything about it (the riffs are loud and annoying, i've seen some nu-metal bands make the drums sound like cans). I don't like metalcore once again because it is a fusion of hardcore and metal, and I really dislike hardcore, I don't like most of the riffs and the screaching/screamo vocals annoy me (but I do like the band God Forbid for some reason). Stoner Metal was always a little too slow for me, don't like the low noted guitars and the riffs in the same song sound a lot like eachother to me, which bores me.

And once again I do not hate styles because theyre mainstream or the groups that like those styles, I think i have said that in every post, I just can't believe that more people like newer styles of metal more then classical metal, but I do not hate nu-metal, metalcore or stoner metal because of that.

Metal is evolving, for good or bad, and I think that it's time to stop searching for new generes or expect that metal could stay always the same. The metal has diversified so much, that it's almost impossible to found a new "unique" genere, for this, bands can't innovate because there's no room for that, it's time to explode creativity and found original sounds taken from the existing ones.

I think metal has evolved quite nicely, considering all the new genres we've got.
I know that I would've been much less into metal if we only had "Traditional Metal" or so.

Written by Guest on 05.05.2007 at 07:44

@BitterCold: Okay, but up in your first post you implyed that I didnt like the styles because theyre mainstream, and I don't see you asking me to explain my opinions anywhere other then your last post.

And once again I do not hate styles because theyre mainstream or the groups that like those styles, I think i have said that in every post (BitterCOld interjection: EXCEPT THE FIRST ONE), I just can't believe that more people like newer styles of metal more then classical metal, but I do not hate nu-metal, metalcore or stoner metal because of that.

/em begins banging his head into his desk in absolute frustration

"I hate it because of nu-metal, most metalcore, stoner metal and all those shits which are more appreciated then old school metal by many (not talking about underground fans)."

Re-read what you wrote.

Clearly, you dislike these genres specifically because of musical attributes and not because other people's tastes differ from your own.

You've spent the entire thread tap dancing around your initial response.

You claim that the popularity of these bands isn't the reason you dislike them, it's all about the music - but right there, in your first post, before you were called out, you very clearly made it OBVIOUS to anyone with more than two brain cells the reasons why you feel the way you do.

Thank you for finally giving a (MUSICAL) reason as to why you dislike these genres. Thanks.

But even then you make the remark that I 'implyed' you hated these bands because they were mainstream.

Ladies and metalheads of the jury, I submit to you Exhibit A:

"I hate it because of nu-metal, most metalcore, stoner metal and all those shits which are more appreciated then old school metal by many (not talking about underground fans)."

You still have yet to admit your opening response was horribly lame and absolutely paints the impression you don't like these genres is simply because other people appreciate them more than 'old school metal.'

I am done talking with you - it's pointless.

However, I had my lovely assistant break out her accordion to provide you with some accompaniment while you continue to tap dance around the idiocy of your first post.