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| Wow, incredibly high rating. This band is a fucking joke. Why is this band on MS and not Dethklok. Dethklok salutes Metal, Van canto poisons Metal |
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Written by RockeRoy on 02.12.2011 at 11:19
Wow, incredibly high rating. This band is a fucking joke. Why is this band on MS and not Dethklok. Dethklok salutes Metal, Van canto poisons Metal
Your opinion only. I honestly can't say why playing metal without stringed instruments is seen as a "poison of metal". Same thing happened when Apocalyptica came out. Just because a band doesn't have guitars doesn't make them any less metal. |
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Quote:
Your opinion only. I honestly can't say why playing metal without stringed instruments is seen as a "poison of metal". Same thing happened when Apocalyptica came out. Just because a band doesn't have guitars doesn't make them any less metal.
It will suprise me if i am the only one with this opinion, but if so, thats ok. Everyone is entitled have whatever opinion they have. Apocalyptica was fun for a while, when i was 13. And yes, no guitars = less Metal. And the band plays almoast just coversongs.. Pick up a guitar and make your own heavy music!! |
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Quote:
Written by RockeRoy on 02.12.2011 at 11:57
Your opinion only. I honestly can't say why playing metal without stringed instruments is seen as a "poison of metal". Same thing happened when Apocalyptica came out. Just because a band doesn't have guitars doesn't make them any less metal.
It will suprise me if i am the only one with this opinion, but if so, thats ok. Everyone is entitled have whatever opinion they have. Apocalyptica was fun for a while, when i was 13. And yes, no guitars = less Metal. And the band plays almoast just coversongs.. Pick up a guitar and make your own heavy music!!
Wait, you say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and then you just continue with thrash-talking? Van Canto is "poison", wtf?
You almost sound like a parody of a trve metalhead: NO GUITAR NO METAL ARRRH KVLTNESS HEAVYNESS |
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Written by RockeRoy on 02.12.2011 at 11:57
And yes, no guitars = less Metal.
I know some doom metal bands without guitars that would love to have a chat with you or just playing the shit out of their bass to shatter the silly old concept of "guitar = more metal".
This band? Is pretty fucking awful tbh
Metal? yeah, it's metal. Songwriting and sound techniques is also a part of a genre, not just instruments.
Posion? Meh, you care too much about it... There's nothing this band is doing that could affect the genre in any negative way.
...And just for the sake of argument: 13 covers (I'm only counting the covers that appear on regular cds, not bonus tracks because many bands have covers as bones), 45 songs in their discography (again, without counting bonus tracks. This will give around 29% of cover songs according to my wicked math skills... So no, it's not "most songs".
Oh and btw... the "fucking joke" you talked about isn't this band... It's the fact you just used Dethklok to prove a point. That's kind of a fail. |
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| One of the worst records ever recorded... |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 02.12.2011 at 12:55
...And just for the sake of argument: 13 covers (I'm only counting the covers that appear on regular cds, not bonus tracks because many bands have covers as bones), 45 songs in their discography (again, without counting bonus tracks. This will give around 29% of cover songs according to my wicked math skills... So no, it's not "most songs".
Mr. Doc, Thank you for responding instead of me  For me, they're the only power metal that won me over during the last couple of years by simply playing the music out of their heart and not being too cocky. Honestly, everyone can dislike the shit out of their cheesy approach and the catchiness of their tunes, I couldn't care less. But calling them non-metal AND resurrecting the ancient Dethklok argument? This is power metal if there ever was any.
RockeRoy, the reason why everyone's attacking you here is that, for an example, you won't see me around on Immortal boards posting how that's cheesy shit and how their corpsepaints are a joke, or on metalcore boards how those bands are "a poison of metal". Don't like something? Fine. Even saying "this sucks" is a whole lot better argument than what you've said. |
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Written by Milena on 02.12.2011 at 13:52
you won't see me around on Immortal boards posting how that's cheesy shit and how their corpsepaints are a joke
Both the band and most of the fanbase are actually aware of that fact. Immortal has always loved to just fuck around. We separate them immediatly from the rest of the BM pack.
But yeah, your argument still applies. |
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I really don't know how it's even possible to defend this cack... it's just really really horrible. In these cases it's not even a matter of taste anymore... it's objectively bad...  |
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| The first album was a fun gimmick. The second one was redundant. The fourth is abusing the gimmick so badly it's laughable. |
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 ParL - 02.12.2011 at 14:55
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| As with everything, my advice will be to make use more of "I don't like this, I do like this" instead of saying "This sucks because I say so". I believe that's the best way to show that you respect others people opinion even though you don't share the same thoughts or ideas/tastes. For someone to say "This genre/band sucks because of bla bla bla" will be offensive on any matter for that other person that does like and enjoy that genre/band, why do that? save your time and the others person time and just say "Oh I see, well I particularly don't like this band/genre because of..." don't say "Oh this band sucks!" |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 02.12.2011 at 14:18
Both the band and most of the fanbase are actually aware of that fact. Immortal has always loved to just fuck around. We separate them immediatly from the rest of the BM pack.
As I do with cheesy power bands, if I happen to like some
Written by Slayer666 on 02.12.2011 at 14:43
The first album was a fun gimmick.
I'm quite aware most people think this is a gimmick, but they don't actually use it to draw attention to themselves. They were a novelty around the first album, and then they just proceeded to play music their way. There was no "oh look we're so awesome we play without instruments aren't we awesome?" thrown from them. That's what I like about them the most I guess - if they played this music with guitars and bass, I'd still listen to it. In the vast sea of boring, soulless, cocksure power metal bands, they're one of the rare ones with genuine warmth.
Written by Merchant of Doom on 02.12.2011 at 14:21
I really don't know how it's even possible to defend this cack... it's just really really horrible. In these cases it's not even a matter of taste anymore... it's objectively bad...
I personally think it's a matter of taste. It's just that far from your taste your brain classifies it as alien. So you can freely use this as an argument to claim your taste is better than mine, I guess, but you appear to be a nice person, so I don't expect you to do that  |
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Written by Milena on 02.12.2011 at 15:11
I'm quite aware most people think this is a gimmick, but they don't actually use it to draw attention to themselves. They were a novelty around the first album, and then they just proceeded to play music their way. There was no "oh look we're so awesome we play without instruments aren't we awesome?" thrown from them. That's what I like about them the most I guess - if they played this music with guitars and bass, I'd still listen to it. In the vast sea of boring, soulless, cocksure power metal bands, they're one of the rare ones with genuine warmth.
I guess that's it, then. Even with that thing supposedly separating them from the rest, namely the lack of instruments, they still sound like just another drop in the endless sea of mega-boring power metal trite. To me, of course. |
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Written by Slayer666 on 02.12.2011 at 15:19
I guess that's it, then. Even with that thing supposedly separating them from the rest, namely the lack of instruments, they still sound like just another drop in the endless sea of mega-boring power metal trite. To me, of course.
More proof that tastes differ ridiculously much I wouldn't be so vocal about this band, except for the fact that I'm really, really picky about my power metal, and when I come across a band that has appeal (it's been, like, a couple of years since I've found any, and I can't say I haven't tried), I must share it with everyone. |
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Written by Milena on 02.12.2011 at 15:11
Written by Merchant of Doom on 02.12.2011 at 14:21
I really don't know how it's even possible to defend this cack... it's just really really horrible. In these cases it's not even a matter of taste anymore... it's objectively bad...
I personally think it's a matter of taste. It's just that far from your taste your brain classifies it as alien. So you can freely use this as an argument to claim your taste is better than mine, I guess, but you appear to be a nice person, so I don't expect you to do that
well, no I wouldn't say my taste is better than yours, just that your tasteless taste for tasteless music is tasteless... |
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Written by Slayer666 on 02.12.2011 at 14:43
The first album was a fun gimmick. The second one was redundant. The fourth is abusing the gimmick so badly it's laughable.
^this. Wow apparently I don't even need to post on here anymore because you say everything I want to before I get to the threads. 
First time I saw Van Canto I thought it was one of the coolest things ever...needless to say that feeling wears thin fast, especially when they keep the same things over and over again. It's been beat to death, I couldn't even listen through half the album before I got sick of it and had to turn it off. |
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Written by Milena on 02.12.2011 at 15:23
I wouldn't be so vocal about this band...
Pun intended? |
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Absak - 02.12.2011 at 17:52
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| Poorly executed gimmick music. This, in my opinion, is bad, Illud Divinum Insanus bad. I'm also very picky with power metal bands, only 3 Inches Of Blood, Blind Guardian, Charred Walls Of The Damned, and Sabaton for me. This, to me, is the lowest tier a power metal band could possibly be on. Only competent member of this band is the male lead singer. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 02.12.2011 at 17:42
Pun intended?
Hahahahahah, no, but my subconscious is more witty than I am, I suppose.
So, basically, in an alternate universe where every metal band is a-capella and there shows up a band who plays four albums with guitars, you'd say:"nah, those 'riff' things have been beat too fast, it's a gimmick that gets old." It's not a gimmick. Just a metal band who happens to do their shit without the guitars. If they wanted to play their metal on pots and pans, it would give you every right to call it a gimmick, but a-capella (have no idea whether I'm spelling it correctly?) is common practice in the music world, and frankly I've expected a band like this to emerge sooner.
I don't wanna sound stiff or biased, but if you all went out and said "this band sucks and they play sucky power metal" like Slayer and Merchant of Doom did, it would be much more reasonable than hating them for their "gimmick". |
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Ya I'm in agreement with the majority here. This is a completely redundant gimmick that's gone on for far too long. The only reason anyone noticed them was due to their big-name band cover songs and their Youtube videos so everyone's all "zomg they play music without INSTRUMENTS".
Terrible band, and the only song I listened to from this album was terrible. |
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If you want it so much:
It sucks because not even guitar riffs would make it good, it's still generic power metal and it goes without saying that no one would give a rat ass if this wasn't done this way... Unless you are someone that sucks up everything from the genre. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 02.12.2011 at 21:17
If you want it so much:
It sucks because not even guitar riffs would make it good, it's still generic power metal and it goes without saying that no one would give a rat ass if this wasn't done this way... Unless you are someone that sucks up everything from the genre.
Well thank you. Finally someone who would bash the music instead of the approach |
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Written by Milena on 02.12.2011 at 21:31
Written by Mr. Doctor on 02.12.2011 at 21:17
If you want it so much:
It sucks because not even guitar riffs would make it good, it's still generic power metal and it goes without saying that no one would give a rat ass if this wasn't done this way... Unless you are someone that sucks up everything from the genre.
Well thank you. Finally someone who would bash the music instead of the approach
Music? |
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Quote:
I know some doom metal bands without guitars that would love to have a chat with you or just playing the shit out of their bass to shatter the silly old concept of "guitar = more metal".
This band? Is pretty fucking awful tbh
Metal? yeah, it's metal. Songwriting and sound techniques is also a part of a genre, not just instruments.
Posion? Meh, you care too much about it... There's nothing this band is doing that could affect the genre in any negative way.
...And just for the sake of argument: 13 covers (I'm only counting the covers that appear on regular cds, not bonus tracks because many bands have covers as bones), 45 songs in their discography (again, without counting bonus tracks. This will give around 29% of cover songs according to my wicked math skills... So no, it's not "most songs".
Oh and btw... the "fucking joke" you talked about isn't this band... It's the fact you just used Dethklok to prove a point. That's kind of a fail.
I agree with you that there is exceptions, but first of all Van canto does not use bass guitar, second; bass guitar was counted as guitar in my mind(will explain down to the last detail next time) third; maybe your doom bands would be even heavier with heavy fucking guitars on top of the already heavy bass grooves. last; metal is not just play as heavy as you can, guitars brings in so many other things to make it Metal. I know some metal bands that would love to have a chat with you or just shredding the shit out of their guitars.
When you say this band doesn't do anything to hurt the genre, do you mean Metal in general or A Cappella power metal? if you mean metal in general, i think it leads new listeners away from all the great Death, black, grindcore etc. etc. and you get those who only listens to te Metllica and ozzy ballads.. and maybe some power metal ballades. Not that i care, i doesn't poison me, it poisons Metal.
Dethklok is the cure to this:) ahh. man, what would metal be without clichès? Dethklok nails it on the head. And Behind the cartoons that someone can't understand is not the one who plays the instruments.. behind is a genious comedian and musician, and when a rare multi talent like this are banned from the club, but fake ass van canto and their "riddeli-diddeli-diddeli-dom" have free enterance ,i can't help but to think that they have already poisoned Metal. |
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Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 02:15
I agree with you that there is exceptions.....
You missed the point of my comment. Where composition is just as much of a factor as instruments. But whatever.
You reasons to say that the band "poisons" metal in general are just your own subjective views without anything to back them up so yeah.... Not really an argument there. Nothing more to say from my part, as I have zero need of commenting here. |
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Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 02:15
tl;dr
Basically you think one gimmick is bad because it's a power metal band but another gimmick is good because it's a death metal band.
Airtight logic. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.12.2011 at 02:31
Basically you think one gimmick is bad because it's a power metal band but another gimmick is good because it's a death metal band.
Airtight logic.
Actually, I think that if they were playing a bit more "true" metal, people would be all over it and wouldn't mention its gimmicky-ness at all. But when the cheese of power metal is combined with a "gimmick" (again, I don't think it is one, they're not really using it to the extremes of marketing themselves), it's enough to make some people (not including some of you who simply dislike it of course) to claim it's a "poison of metal". I've interpreted his comment as saying that the music is too simple and it spoils metal so everyone will listen to just the easy stuff... and that it requires no talent, which clearly shows the dude knows shit about a cappella music.
I'll be the first one to say that out of all genres I've listened to, power metal has the least quality bands out of the vast sea of bands that play it... but despising it so much isn't a really good option either. |
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Written by Milena on 03.12.2011 at 03:34
Actually, I think that if they were playing a bit more "true" metal, people would be all over it and wouldn't mention its gimmicky-ness at all.
False. See Amon Amarth haters. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.12.2011 at 04:19
False. See Amon Amarth haters.
A lot more lovers than haters in a random batch o' people. |
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Written by Milena on 03.12.2011 at 09:25
A lot more lovers than haters in a random batch o' people.
Oh for sure, I just meant for comparison's sake. Those who hate AA for their gimmick are the same kinds of people who hate VC for their gimmick.
Vikings - a capella.
I think the latter receives more hate because it's bringing the cheese factor of an already cheesy genre even higher, whereas AA bring a cheese factor to a genre that doesn't even know how to spell cheese unless zombies are eating it with their human snack as an appetizer. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.12.2011 at 09:28
I think the latter receives more hate because it's bringing the cheese factor of an already cheesy genre even higher, whereas AA bring a cheese factor to a genre that doesn't even know how to spell cheese unless zombies are eating it with their human snack as an appetizer.
That was my point, except I think the rate of people who will hate a band simply for being power metal is higher. You're probably not the person to talk about this... but I DO need to hear some power metal from time to time, and I can never seem to get as much recommendations as for other metal genres because of metalheads' collective hatred towards it. The "true" power metal fans aren't a good place to ask, I've listened to all the Stratovarius, Blind Guardian and Hammerfall they swear by, but found no appeal in it. I do feel that if a good power metal band showed up again, it would completely pass by my radar. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 03.12.2011 at 02:22
Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 02:15
I agree with you that there is exceptions.....
You missed the point of my comment. Where composition is just as much of a factor as instruments. But whatever.
You reasons to say that the band "poisons" metal in general are just your own subjective views without anything to back them up so yeah.... Not really an argument there. Nothing more to say from my part, as I have zero need of commenting here.
Diddn't miss it, you said it yourself when you say composition is just as much a factor as instruments.. thats two factors, if you leave one out it's not Metal.
I always know it is my subjective view, just as beliving it does not poisons metal is your subjective view. So what i wonder is are you a big fan of van canto, do you listen a lot of a cappela power metal? whats so cool with metal without guitars?
Seemed like you had a little more than zero need to comment a couple of postes ago.. |
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Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 14:01
Seemed like you had a little more than zero need to comment a couple of postes ago..
Yeah, arguing with you is pretty useless. My bad.
To me: compostion > instrument.
You seem to think otherwise. I'll agree to disagree. If you ask "what's so cool with metal without guitars then I can only assume this shitty band is the only thing you've heard of that. So yeah, discussing with you was an error, I'm sorry. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.12.2011 at 02:31
Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 02:15
tl;dr
Basically you think one gimmick is bad because it's a power metal band but another gimmick is good because it's a death metal band.
Airtight logic.
you miss the point, hadn't been a problem if was a power metal gimmick, but it's not. it is a deadly seriouse a capella groupe |
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Could be worse... It could be a deathcore a capella band.
OR(!) a Lulu a capella interpetation. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 03.12.2011 at 14:05
Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 14:01
Seemed like you had a little more than zero need to comment a couple of postes ago..
Yeah, arguing with you is pretty useless. My bad.
To me: compostion > instrument.
You seem to think otherwise. I'll agree to disagree. If you ask "what's so cool with metal without guitars then I can only assume this shitty band is the only thing you've heard of that. So yeah, discussing with you was an error, I'm sorry.
Man are you that far out? do you isten to yourself you havent answerd one question i've asked, thats a part of a discussion, and when you do not contribute to the discussion, it's arguing with you that is pointless. I've argued pretty clear for my case when you asked, why you only bash me with this; discussing with you was an error and oh im so sorry. my bad etc- etc thats your answer to everything.
Anyway
Last you hear from me |
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| You two have a communication breakdown, definitely |
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I didn't answer to your questions because I found them irrelevant to the previous discussion (specially the first question I mean... I think I make it clear with my first couple of post that I didn't like this shit) but there you go:
Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 14:01
So what i wonder is are you a big fan of van canto?
do you listen a lot of a cappela power metal?
whats so cool with metal without guitars?
- No.
- No. I dislike pretty much all Power Mtal with one or two exceptions for mostly nostalgic reasons.
- Don't understand the question, there's nothing cool or not cool about it. It's just a different kind of band playing metal. That's all there is to it.
Written by Milena on 03.12.2011 at 14:51
You two have a communication breakdown, definitely
When you love someone, sometimes you have to let them go... If they return, you know he was truly yours.  |
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Written by RockeRoy on 03.12.2011 at 14:01
So what i wonder is are you a big fan of van canto, do you listen a lot of a cappela power metal? whats so cool with metal without guitars?
Seemed like you had a little more than zero need to comment a couple of postes ago..
Van Canto is probably in my top 3 favorite bands to be honest. I think their unique blend of a capella and power metal sets them apart from the rest of the scene. What makes them so cool even though they don't have guitars is the fact that they SING the riffs! That's just unbelievable. If someone like you can't understand how beneficial a band like Van Canto is to the realm of metal then sadly I don't think you have a right to comment on what's poison and what's a cure. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.12.2011 at 22:22
Van Canto is probably in my top 3 favorite bands to be honest....
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 03.12.2011 at 22:39
meme
I also love deathcore. |
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Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.12.2011 at 22:40
I also love deathcore.
Heheheh well, you were pretty convincing up there.
Also... you said you liked the latest CC you wrote about so it's not completely false. |
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Interesting discussion. I've got quite a few thoughts about Van Canto and their position within the heavy metal scene myself. And I've seen them live two months ago. It's been quite a noteworthy gig, maybe I'll write a report about it just to keep this whole discussion going
As for the review: I agree with everything said, but would've still rated the album 2 points lower. The review is spot on and I like how it doesn't explicitly mention the absence of strings, takes Van Canto's approach for granted instead and evaluates the songs by their quality, not by their "gimmickness". |
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Written by Promonex on 07.12.2011 at 04:40
As for the review: I agree with everything said, but would've still rated the album 2 points lower. The review is spot on and I like how it doesn't explicitly mention the absence of strings, takes Van Canto's approach for granted instead and evaluates the songs by their quality, not by their "gimmickness".
I mentioned the lack of strings in my guest reviews a while back, just so that people don't get confused when they play songs on youtube. Thanks man, I appreciate it.
Wish a fan or two could have stopped by to this thread so that we can have a more even set of opinions, but you dudes scared 'em off. We Van Canto fans are gentle little things  |
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Always the same "bla bla bla" about bands and styles preferences.
Well, moving along the trolling, I just wanted to say that this was the 2nd album Van Canto I listen (1st was their debut) to and I must say it's really a blow of fresh air from all same vibes we listen in other bands.
I actually loved the "Primo Victoria" song, probably my favorite right now and I never listened to Sabaton.
Hate it or Love it but Van Canto is an original band, a bright star in an ocean where bands repeat the same formulas over an over.
Curious fact: When I first listen to "Master of the Wind" I immediately thought about Manowar, but, I didn't knew it was a Manowar song. I think it's a fun fact because it shows that they successfully captured the song essence. |
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Written by The Norseman on 07.12.2011 at 15:41
Hate it or Love it but Van Canto is an original band, a bright star in an ocean where bands repeat the same formulas over an over.
Curious fact: When I first listen to "Master of the Wind" I immediately thought about Manowar, but, I didn't knew it was a Manowar song. I think it's a fun fact because it shows that they successfully captured the song essence.
They aren't really refreshing in style, it's basic power metal, but I think their attempt at making a twist on the original way metal is played is something that shouldn't be bashed, it should be praised.
And my experience with that song was the same! |
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Written by Milena on 07.12.2011 at 15:45
They aren't really refreshing in style, it's basic power metal, but I think their attempt at making a twist on the original way metal is played is something that shouldn't be bashed, it should be praised.
Well, yeah, it's still power metal but they didn't limited themselves to the known formulas. You know it's a Sonata Arctica song when you listen to it, the same way you know it's a Kamelot song when you listen to it, like Eluveitie with their hurdy gurdy, you don't need to know whos song is it to identity it. This is what makes bands great, when they manage to create their own unique sounds within a certain style or group of styles and Van Canto did this by using unique instruments, if someone would talk about this idea before Van Canto, people would laught at it (edit: actually, people still laught at it -.-').
You can hate it or love it, but they are unique.
Now, it's true we can't give them much credit about songwriting because they use mostly covers (for my knowledge) but still, unique. |
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Written by The Norseman on 07.12.2011 at 15:55
Well, yeah, it's still power metal but they didn't limited themselves to the known formulas. You know it's a Sonata Arctica song when you listen to it, the same way you know it's a Kamelot song when you listen to it, like Eluveitie with their hurdy gurdy, you don't need to know whos song is it to identity it. This is what makes bands great, when they manage to create their own unique sounds within a certain style or group of styles and Van Canto did this by using unique instruments, if someone would talk about this idea before Van Canto, people would laught at it.
You can hate it or love it, but they are unique.
Now, it's true we can't give them much credit about songwriting because they use mostly covers (for my knowledge) but still, unique.
Actually, there's only one third of covers, and I prefer their original work And I do love them, as you may see by the ratings Rakkatakka on!  |
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Slinky666 - 08.12.2011 at 04:16
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| I love how the resurrect the medieval sound. |
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