Well I really look forward to seeing them when they do tour here. It's such a cock tease that they can't make it this time around. Until then, I'll be blasting AToED.

Nothing like bureaucracy when it comes to work for the citizen. Two friends of mine are currently in the US, both working on their dissertation in Boston, both doing the exact same work, staying for the exact same time (and even living in the exact same house) and one had to pay the ridiculous amount of 500? to get his visa while the other got hers for fee.

Truly American...

Yeah, the immigration services here have been fucking insane since 911. The govt. needs to keep providing the illusion that there are lots of terrorists so that we are scared into believing them.

Written by Konrad on 18.11.2009 at 19:07

Yeah, the immigration services here have been fucking insane since 911. The govt. needs to keep providing the illusion that there are lots of terrorists so that we are scared into believing them.

Which leads to the US collecting fingerprints of every poor soul that crosses their borders without providing information as to the duration these data are held or how they are processed. For most of us that means that another country's government has data about us that not even our own country does. I can't say that's a welcoming thought.

Oh, it's turning into Stasi country man...just wait and see how ridiculous it gets. Police are already being trained that the first terrorists of this country were the "founding fathers", because they disobeyed their British Govt. Kids are being paid to tell govt. officials if their parents are too "patriotic". It's terrible...and nobody understands history so they just let the same shit happen over and over again. Fuck govt. tyranny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Of course, us government is specialized in manipulating the americans

Pentagram withdrew from their show in London last month with Trouble for the same reason, as I heard from one girl who works in the venue. Immigration authorities in UK are going nuts as well. Fuck'em All.

I kinda feel bad for Alexi who had to work to learn the Hypocrisy songs all for nothing.

This could turn into an eventual headlining tour. Not all is lost.

True.. I hope they come back in 2010 as headliners... They deserve it!

Written by Overlord_PT on 18.11.2009 at 20:08

Of course, us government is specialized in manipulating the americans

Umm...generally all governments specialize in manipulating their people. If you don't believe this, you're as naive as the ignorant US citizens.

I went to this tour (obviously they weren't there) ...Ensiferum were awesome but the turnout to this show was very weak. I think it turned alot of others off when they heard Hypocrisy wasn't gonna show. Hopefully they'll make it back soon.

Written by Konrad on 18.11.2009 at 19:24

Oh, it's turning into Stasi country man...just wait and see how ridiculous it gets. Police are already being trained that the first terrorists of this country were the "founding fathers", because they disobeyed their British Govt. Kids are being paid to tell govt. officials if their parents are too "patriotic". It's terrible...and nobody understands history so they just let the same shit happen over and over again. Fuck govt. tyranny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

ummm what? American police don't get that kind of training. I happen to live in a district that has the 3rd longest police academy in this entire country and I know someone who went through this academy and he did NOT get this sort of training at all. (This person happens to be my boyfriend so, I would know thanks)

As for kids getting paid for that, I don't know if that has actually happened or not but it would not surprise me if it has.

sorry for getting off topic here...just had to rant

and yes, I agree that this will result in a headlining tour...that would be awesome!

Written by MetallicA on 19.11.2009 at 00:31

Written by Konrad on 18.11.2009 at 19:24

Oh, it's turning into Stasi country man...just wait and see how ridiculous it gets. Police are already being trained that the first terrorists of this country were the "founding fathers", because they disobeyed their British Govt. Kids are being paid to tell govt. officials if their parents are too "patriotic". It's terrible...and nobody understands history so they just let the same shit happen over and over again. Fuck govt. tyranny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

ummm what? American police don't get that kind of training. I happen to live in a district that has the 3rd longest police academy in this entire country and I know someone who went through this academy and he did NOT get this sort of training at all. (This person happens to be my boyfriend so, I would know thanks)

As for kids getting paid for that, I don't know if that has actually happened or not but it would not surprise me if it has.

sorry for getting off topic here...just had to rant

and yes, I agree that this will result in a headlining tour...that would be awesome!

Watch the last 30 minutes of the Documentary I provided in my previous post.

Hmph, USA visa processing, if I'm correct, has cancelled several bands from getting over here in the USA. What is up with that? That is of extreme inconvenience.

Written by Konrad on 18.11.2009 at 23:31

Written by Overlord_PT on 18.11.2009 at 20:08

Of course, us government is specialized in manipulating the americans

Umm...generally all governments specialize in manipulating their people

true.. but the american one its even worst

i hate politics anyway

Written by Overlord_PT on 19.11.2009 at 01:30

Written by Konrad on 18.11.2009 at 23:31

Written by Overlord_PT on 18.11.2009 at 20:08

Of course, us government is specialized in manipulating the americans

Umm...generally all governments specialize in manipulating their people

true.. but the american one its even worst

i hate politics anyway

Yeah, right now America is one of the worst...but that always changes over time. Actually, the British Govt. controls much of what America does. Well, European and American international bankers really have influences over the majority of western governments. Many middle eastern/eastern govts. are against them but they aren't exactly good either. I don't like most politicians but politics is more than that...politics are what makes everything happen.

@Konrad - do you believe everything you see or read? I'm talking from experience here...not from something I saw. You have to think critically about topics such as this...question what it is you are reading/ watching, do some research to see if it is true, somewhat true or not. See where they bend something in their favor. Also look at the source of their information...is it just radical stuff or do they get their sources from all different places to get a more well rounded perspective? Seriously, if you do all this then you'll be able to see whatever it is you read or watched is garbage or not.

I watched that part...the historical parts (about WWII, the Russian commisars etc) are true. Everything else concerning present day (or events that happened recently) is so not true! They totally put a spin to everything on they say to make what they're saying look good. This is just propaganda dude. Seriously, check your facts. And the parts that are true, like the US military are not allowed to police the citizens, was totally botched. They mentioned that the military policed in New Orleans (I looked at your profile and it turns out that's where you're from) and they stated that the military is not suppoed to do that. They are allowed to do so in a state of emergency...if hurricane Katrina wasn't an emergeny then I don't know what was. And they said FEMA recruited 'citizen spies'? SERIOUSLY!?! FEMA? Do you even know what FEMA stands for? They have nothing to do with spying. That's the CIA's job. And that police video about the founding fathers? That looks like it was recorded just for this documentary AND notice the date in it was before Sept 11. Do some research before you post something like this.

Written by MetallicA on 19.11.2009 at 04:44

And they said FEMA recruited 'citizen spies'? SERIOUSLY!?! FEMA? Do you even know what FEMA stands for? They have nothing to do with spying. That's the CIA's job.

I worked Hurricane Katrina with the Red Cross doing bulk distribution. We had to share a warehouse with FEMA. Those people couldn't organize a pallet of Nature Valley granola bars, let alone a team of "citizen spies".

While I think that it's great for people like Alex Jones to have the freedom and the nerve to put himself out there, I think it can also be dangerous for people to just watch his documentaries and take it all as fact. On the other side of the spectrum, people that just sway listlessly through life accepting everything their governments tell them are equally as dangerous. People like Alex Jones who make these documentaries should be deemed valuable only in that they should raise questions. They should inspire people to do their own research. Taking what they say as hardcore fact is just as irresponsible as accepting everything our governments try to feed us. They can create a complex recipe of easily digestible, ready-to-eat truths mixed in with harder-to-prove half-truths and outright lies... but some people pull a few of the soft facts and immediately decide that the whole documentary is true.

Also, more on topic.. I love Hypocrisy and, quite frankly, this whole visa thing has pissed me off. They're putting all this work and frustration into keeping out hard-working, easily traceable, very recognizable bands while millions of undocumented strangers flood the borders and blend in seamlessly with the rest of the population. Not that I am ridiculing those who come here for a "better life", but come on.. which poses the real danger? Which has the potential to wreak greater harm?

Written by MetallicA on 19.11.2009 at 04:44

@Konrad - do you believe everything you see or read? I'm talking from experience here...not from something I saw. You have to think critically about topics such as this...question what it is you are reading/ watching, do some research to see if it is true, somewhat true or not. See where they bend something in their favor. Also look at the source of their information...is it just radical stuff or do they get their sources from all different places to get a more well rounded perspective? Seriously, if you do all this then you'll be able to see whatever it is you read or watched is garbage or not.

I watched that part...the historical parts (about WWII, the Russian commisars etc) are true. Everything else concerning present day (or events that happened recently) is so not true! They totally put a spin to everything on they say to make what they're saying look good. This is just propaganda dude. Seriously, check your facts. And the parts that are true, like the US military are not allowed to police the citizens, was totally botched. They mentioned that the military policed in New Orleans (I looked at your profile and it turns out that's where you're from) and they stated that the military is not suppoed to do that. They are allowed to do so in a state of emergency...if hurricane Katrina wasn't an emergeny then I don't know what was. And they said FEMA recruited 'citizen spies'? SERIOUSLY!?! FEMA? Do you even know what FEMA stands for? They have nothing to do with spying. That's the CIA's job. And that police video about the founding fathers? That looks like it was recorded just for this documentary AND notice the date in it was before Sept 11. Do some research before you post something like this.

You seem to be getting pretty riled up here...all I did was post a documentary and tell you to check it out. Nothing about my post says that I agree with everything that is presented in it. I have, however, studied 20th century Germany quite intensely, and I lived there for 2 years. A lot of what America is doing currently, particularly the neo-cons, resembles exactly the events which took place before the Nazi party came to power. If you want to watch a factual documentary on how Terrorism is used to frighten and manipulate us, check this out. It won awards for best factual documentary of the year:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727&ei=ndYES9jUKJverQKm9e3rCQ&q=the+power+of+nightmares&hl=en#

And with all due respect, I am the one thinking critically here. Sure, Alex Jones' documentaries are not entirely factual, but he's raising questions. I also don't need to get into a pissing contest with you and compare who knows more police officers, but I have a fair share of friends in the Military and on the Police Force. Tell me, if the video is just propaganda, what is Alex Jones' objective? To tell lies just for fun? You are telling me to do research, assuming that I haven't. Where is your research? Your boyfriend on the police force?

There's an old Chinese saying, if you put your head in the sand, you'll get fucked in the ass. Well, maybe I might take some things to be factual that you might not agree with, or that are impossible for either one of us to either prove or disprove. But history tends to repeat itself and although many things that our government does seem benign, they resemble how previous corrupt governments have ruined their countries. If you would like to discuss this further, you can either pm me or find another forum (there are a couple) regarding this matter. Thanks.

Well... its not like its the first time. I just hope Ensiferum has a good night here in SF and doesn't play like shit.

Oh and you people need to chill out here... leave the political gvmnt shit out. It is what it is and leave it at that. Go drink a beer and shut the hell up. It could be worse... the whole tour could have been axed.

faded

Yeah is a big problem!!! USA want to control the U.S citizen but they dont know! that the people already know that! but they dont do nothing because they are afraid of the "strong laws of this goverment" that because if you do a manifestation they will think that you are a terrorist and that is F** up. But i have a question, the European need visa? to visit U.S.A, because i think that they just need the Passport to come in. Please if somebody knows something about me tell me. Because if they can come with the European Passport, Hypocricy can do the shows with out the working visa.

I think any European can come to the states, but if they wish to stay for a certain amount of time, they need to obtain a visa. Also, if anyone comes here to work, they need to have a work visa. This could be why they wouldn't let the band come in. Since the recession, they have been even stricter on work visas.

Whatever the actual reason, I'd say assuming a fully working manipulation-machine behind this is just ridiculous. As if an operation as big as the US government didn't have better things to do than denying visa to bands. What good would that do anyway? There has to be a reason on the level of visa-laws and the according offices. I frankly don't even know how exactly all that is handled over there but my example from the beginning of this thread was to serve as proof for this whole process being somewhat selective or even random. And in this particular case just plain unlucky for everyone eager to see hypochrisy live.

@Konrad - ehhh not really. You never specified if you agreed with everything or with only some of the things. You posted it and I don't think I'm the only one here who assumed you believed it all to be fact because you never said so. No, my research is not my boyfriend...I used him as an example because he went through the academy and could tell me what he did and did not get trained in. That had nothing to do with anything else in the film, just the "founding fathers" example and the terrorist example.

I don't think Alex was telling "lies for fun". He does put alot of historical facts in there but at the same time, alot of it is just opinion. Opinions aren't lies, they're just what someone thinks. I think he firmly believes that what he is telling is the truth. I don't know about you but I'm not taking someone else's opinions to be fact just because they had enough money to make some fancy documentary. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. But that doesn't mean the opinion is right or wrong. Hell I'll use you as an example here too...you have said some things earlier in this discussion that I agree with 100%. It doesn't mean I'll agree with you 100% of the time. Come to think of it, I think the only thing I really disagreed with you on is this damn documentary.

Also, I do agree with your statement "Well, maybe I might take some things to be factual that you might not agree with, or that are impossible for either one of us to either prove or disprove." But please tell me you didn't believe the part about FEMA recruiting citizen spies!

Written by Got Mayhem? on 18.11.2009 at 22:18

I kinda feel bad for Alexi who had to work to learn the Hypocrisy songs all for nothing.

Exactly!!!!

Something fammiliar huh US costums sucks so much, they dont let good people in but non wellcome they let, if it works good then there wont be 11 september, so how Europian can be elegal imigrant? Simply cant