Also, i know the dead horse can't take any more, but seeing as many mods are watching this thread closely i have to say i agree with him that NS bands should be added to metal storm. i'm as far from a nazi as i can be, but the freedom of expression thing (as in, what you can say/write/sing about) is either black or white, there is NO middle path. you either have complete freedom of expression for whatever you want to say, however hateful or violent (and we know there are many extremely offensive bands on MS which are not national-socialist so it won't make any difference) or there is no freedom of expression. actually i can't care less about the NS bands themselves, i've been a member here for 5 years and do not think this website will be enriched in any relevant way from featuring them, but it's totally a matter of principle.

Written by Valentin B on 02.03.2011 at 14:15

...but it's totally a matter of principle.

And that's the precise reason we don't feature them

Its simple, really. We don't want to give bands with NS views any free publicity.

And yes, we feature many extremely offensive bands here but there is a fundamental difference between just being offensive and being racist. For example, Satanic bands hate Christians but being Christian is a CHOICE, whereas belonging to a race is not a choice. Similarly, many other bands spew hatred on various kinds of people but since the objects of their attacks made the chocie to behave the way they do, their music can be seen as criticism and this is completely fine. NS music does not criticize anything, it just supports hatred for innocent people.

Written by jupitreas on 02.03.2011 at 15:01

Its simple, really. We don't want to give bands with NS views any free publicity.

You'll have to be slightly corrected there, mate.

I.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.03.2011 at 14:28

Written by Valentin B on 02.03.2011 at 14:15

...but it's totally a matter of principle.

And that's the precise reason we don't feature them

so the "principle" you invoke is lack of freedom of speech? i know what you're probably going to say, that it preaches violence, hate and whatnot. but there is a whole world of difference between saying and doing something. out of millions of black metal musicians and fans, most of which preach anti-christianity, only Varg and a handful of others ever actually did something that mimics their ideology. death metal and grindcore score even lower, as i've heard of precisely no people associated with these movements that killed someone in order to prove a point about their way of life and thinking.

if you're violent, you'll find ANY excuse to do evil things, for example the case with the Judas Priest trial in 1990: did those boys kill themselves because Rob told them to? or were they just crazy and violent by nature? same with Varg: did he burn Fantoft Stave Church because the guys at Bathory told him to through their music? that's absolutely ridiculous.

@Jupitreas you make a valid point. but then again there are (for example) some people who aren't Christian by choice, they were simply brought up in a very religious environment and could never see the world otherwise, it's a part of their lives. then again it is possible to change that but with ethnicity it's impossible. that's a good enough reason to oppose NS i guess.

Written by Ivor on 02.03.2011 at 15:08

Written by jupitreas on 02.03.2011 at 15:01

Its simple, really. We don't want to give bands with NS views any free publicity.

You'll have to be slightly corrected there, mate.

I.

Hahahah, good catch. Such a huge difference one word makes!

Written by Valentin B on 02.03.2011 at 15:09

then again it is possible to change that but with ethnicity it's impossible. that's a good enough reason to oppose NS i guess.

precisely

Written by Valentin B on 02.03.2011 at 15:09

my point is that as long as there are extremely few ACTIONS done in the spirit of this ideology(and there are only very rare incidents) then how is it in any way a problem?

There are quite a number of actions to refer to when it comes to racism. There's discrimination, beating people up, murdering people and even genocide. Pick your favorite. I've been following your discussion here and it seems you both have very valid points. But as the provider of a webservice, you may draw your own line between freedom of speech and open discrimination. Freedom of speech is only a right so long it doesn't vernture into harming people. NS stuff is a difficult topic there because it's more than just a ideology It has been put to use in the most cruel way imaginable. And ignoring that by declaring it a theoretic construct is an affront to everyone of it's victims.

Okay, it seems i'm bested in argumentation. now i know why, and agree with the fact that, NS bands are not allowed here.

Written by corrupt on 02.03.2011 at 15:24

... discrimination, beating people up, murdering people and even genocide.

Plenty of bands around that touch on those topics. There isn't any high road here IMO.

I might have been able to understand his decision to leave if the new MS featured something like a thumbs down/thumbs up button for albums and you could no longer rate albums from 1 to 10, like YT did, because that would have been ass as fuck, but I really don't see anything wrong with the new layout. The only thing I'd change, is I'd put the shoutbox back on the right side for nostalgia's sake, but that's bloody well it. Never thought Ellrohir would react like this and I never had any trouble with him either. Weird...

I can't see the video, makes me sad...



Errr.. What's this topic about? oh yeah...

Wow. OP is the very definition of 'cry baby'. Such sorrow, makes Lord Loss seem like the happiest entity 'alive'

Lol this was fucking pathetic.

Nothing against Ellrohir, but seriously dude, that was idiotic.

It doesn't really reach me how a site's design change (I wouldn't say it's the worst design we have now... it's just different from the goode olde one but the main functions are still here) can push someone to a "virtual suicide"... it's a mystery...

Written by Ernis on 07.03.2011 at 23:08

It doesn't really reach me how a site's design change (I wouldn't say it's the worst design we have now... it's just different from the goode olde one but the main functions are still here) can push someone to a "virtual suicide"... it's a mystery...

There are plenty of other sites like metalstorm out there and if somebody doesn't agree with a design, why not move to another one. That's not to justify this theatrical nonsense though. But I can't say that I'd have settled here if ms had this design three years ago. It's just the kind of clumsy space-wasting design that makes you move forward as soon as you got somewhere.

Written by corrupt on 08.03.2011 at 09:47

There are plenty of other sites like metalstorm out there and if somebody doesn't agree with a design, why not move to another one. That's not to justify this theatrical nonsense though. But I can't say that I'd have settled here if ms had this design three years ago. It's just the kind of clumsy space-wasting design that makes you move forward as soon as you got somewhere.

But if he said that this website meant so much for him and didn't even giver it a chancem not even a day.... Then he's just an hipocrite who doesn't appreciate the website as much as he says he does.

MEH for him.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 08.03.2011 at 10:05

But if he said that this website meant so much for him and didn't even giver it a chancem not even a day.... Then he's just an hipocrite who doesn't appreciate the website as much as he says he does.

As I said, too theatrical and childish

Written by corrupt on 08.03.2011 at 09:47

Written by Ernis on 07.03.2011 at 23:08

It doesn't really reach me how a site's design change (I wouldn't say it's the worst design we have now... it's just different from the goode olde one but the main functions are still here) can push someone to a "virtual suicide"... it's a mystery...

There are plenty of other sites like metalstorm out there and if somebody doesn't agree with a design, why not move to another one. That's not to justify this theatrical nonsense though. But I can't say that I'd have settled here if ms had this design three years ago. It's just the kind of clumsy space-wasting design that makes you move forward as soon as you got somewhere.

i cannot find one site as great as MS, with a forum, the rating system, so many bands and album, so easy to search them etc... can you suggest me some if you know...?

Written by Deadmeat on 08.03.2011 at 11:14

i cannot find one site as great as MS, with a forum, the rating system, so many bands and album, so easy to search them etc... can you suggest me some if you know...?

And we're not even talking about the awards + other events...
Or our relantionship with Hellfest, quoting Jeff:

Quote:
MS has a deal with the festival since 2008 and let me tell you that LOT of other magazines are jealous and are ready to sell their mother to take MS' place.

...Our interviews (and now video-interviews!), lots of info and links, etc...

The OP is throwing his toys out of the pram and completely overreacting. lol As someone else said, god help him if he ever comes across any real hardships to deal with in life...

I don't like how the new layout makes it harder to find things that were once easily seen and accessible. (IE: the shoutbox/birthday lists) All these things should still be on the main forum page I think, just for easy access. But otherwise, I see no problem with it, and I certainly wouldn't leave such a great site like this one over such a minor quibble. MS is by far the best metal forums Ive ever been to, and I can't imagine another being any better. It's Ellrohir's loss really, and I think he needs to grow up.

Written by Angelic Storm on 08.03.2011 at 13:30


I don't like how the new layout makes it harder to find things that were once easily seen and accessible. (IE: the shoutbox/birthday lists) All these things should still be on the main forum page I think, just for easy access. But otherwise, I see no problem with it, and I certainly wouldn't leave such a great site like this one over such a minor quibble. MS is by far the best metal forums Ive ever been to, and I can't imagine another being any better. It's Ellrohir's loss really, and I think he needs to grow up.

I agree its werry hard find thinks and also hard to read , its big minus of new loyout and there week and I never will use to it , but about forum yes its yrue even I wish see 20 new topics per day but still there no better metalforums

Written by Angelic Storm on 08.03.2011 at 13:30

MS is by far the best metal forums Ive ever been to, and I can't imagine another being any better. It's Ellrohir's loss really, and I think he needs to grow up.

For me, it is one of the two really good metal forums I've been to, the other one being MA. They're good for completely different reasons though.

MS:
* Laid back atmosphere and a nice small town feel to the place.
* A worthwile discussion pops up now and then.
* People are generally not complete douches.
* There is a problem with the rehashing of very old discussions (usually concerning very well known bands), and only rarely does something new to talk about emerge.

MA:
* Discussion tends to be on a higher level (and concern more underground bands), with people involved who are total maniacs (for better or worse).
* Starts to be funny once you get the internal jokes, before that it may seem very unwelcoming.
* Way more posters than on MS, discussion goes faster.
* There is a dedicated trading community where you can get some rare or at least semi-rare stuff while avoiding eBay (and ridiculous eBay prices) completely. Most people trade CDs though, not that many trade vinyl and cassettes.
* Although, I must admit that there are certain posters that... Well... Let's just say I'd be surprised if they had a lot of friends (or, in fact, any at all).
* Have made efforts to combat the doucheness. This is illustrated by an annoncement in the general forum last year (it's still there).

Definitely the best metal forum I've been to. Heck, its the only one I've ever come back to. Not too thrilled about the new changes, mainly because I dont like the fonts and the home page. I rarely check out the home page though so that doesn't really matter to me. Gets easier after seeing it for a bit I guess. Now if we can get all those good old members back, it'll be Christmas.

MA forums are fucked up,i tryd discuss it there but its lame and to many users and hard to follow, I never be there a poster, I only update bands(what I like of corse) there, MA is only for datebase, best waht thay can do is shut down forum to save a server spave, MA are for band datebase only !!!!

Agree about MA, it's the best for band info. As for MS, I think the strong points are news/events stuff.
As for the forum, they are similar coz most of the time same old never-ending discussions come up and douches are everywhere when it comes to internet discussion. Also on MA people seem much more into extreme side of metal and more underground knowledge whereas MS is much more maistream and laid back ( most of the time )

Agree about MA. They have a much larger selection of bands in there and the comments and reviews about the music are probably much better and more detailed. In terms of music its probably the better site to visit.

However in terms of the community and people, MS has no equal. Far more intersting forum discussions about life in general on here and its probably these reasons that keeps me coming back here over the years.

MA are only site in the world where is 99% of bands other sites hardly come close, maybe doom-metal where almst all doom bands so and non ever never will make better datebase how MA has about those bands because many has 1 demo tape , no bad pic, no demo cover and non remeber when band split up and demo copy has maybe 20 samples of it

I was more talking about the MA forum than the site itself. And let's face it, I basically only use metalstorm for the forum at this point. Have considered writing some reviews at some point though.

Expect one for Burzum's fallen since I have a bet with Mr. Doctor.