Satanism

Satan is more mentioned in the bible then the actual name of Lucifer, which if you do a search on an online bible, you will only find a reference in Isaiah. Which a prophet is talking in reference to Babylons fall as did the morning star.

Now, in Later translations of the bible to Latin ( By Jerome in the Vulgate in the 5th century ) took the reference of the morning star and translated that into the latin word lucifer, which means light bearer. The foremention of Satan being the one fallen from grace is in
Revelations:

12:9The great dragon was hurled down?that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

So together with the translation of the falling of the morning star to lucifer in latin, to the parallel of Satan being cast down from heaven are the reason I think people link them together. It sounds confusing, but most of the time, it is Satan is who is the actual deciever and lord of lies, nothing is actually mentioned about lucifer being evil except the parallel that they are both mentioned as falling from grace.

Written by Sunioj on 01.02.2007 at 15:23

@Arian
Did you know that the inverted cross is originally a Catholic symbol? It is a St. peters cross which is supposed to portray his humility cuz he got crucified upside down.

I do believe in context of anti-christianity, the inverted cross has its origins in the Norse culture. Many believe the mjolnir pendant was used to show one's disaproval for Christianisation and in fact, such pendants appeared only in areas where intensive conversions caused apparence of Norsemen wearing crucifix pendants.
And doesn't mjolnir look like an inverted cross?
Especially the Icelandic one
"This second style is most familiar from the Icelandic Thor figure (fig 2) and resembles an inverted crucifix (indeed one amulet from Iceland looks exactly like an inverted cross and the merging of the two symbols was probably deliberate)."
Alternatively the anti-christian symbol might have no connections with the past (it doesn't really require much brain power to simply invert symbol of something you don't like).

But the connection with St. Peter's cross is (imo) highly doubtful.

Yeah, I wouldnt think that the St. Peters Cross has a connection to the anti christian context that would be weird though. That makes more sense.

Written by [user id=1868] on 04.02.2007 at 17:07

Written by Sunioj on 01.02.2007 at 15:23

@Arian
Did you know that the inverted cross is originally a Catholic symbol? It is a St. peters cross which is supposed to portray his humility cuz he got crucified upside down.

I do believe in context of anti-christianity, the inverted cross has its origins in the Norse culture. Many believe the mjolnir pendant was used to show one's disaproval for Christianisation and in fact, such pendants appeared only in areas where intensive conversions caused apparence of Norsemen wearing crucifix pendants.
And doesn't mjolnir look like an inverted cross?
Especially the Icelandic one
"This second style is most familiar from the Icelandic Thor figure (fig 2) and resembles an inverted crucifix (indeed one amulet from Iceland looks exactly like an inverted cross and the merging of the two symbols was probably deliberate)."
Alternatively the anti-christian symbol might have no connections with the past (it doesn't really require much brain power to simply invert symbol of something you don't like).

But the connection with St. Peter's cross is (imo) highly doubtful.

the mjølner you mentioned often also have the head of Fenris bitting on the top of it... my old historie teacher who were working at a Viking museum told us that people began to wear these kinds of necklaces when christianity came to Denmark and they both wanted to show that they were christians but also still wanted blessings from the old gods.

Written by [user id=16496] on 06.02.2007 at 19:29

Written by [user id=1868] on 04.02.2007 at 17:07

Written by Sunioj on 01.02.2007 at 15:23

@Arian
Did you know that the inverted cross is originally a Catholic symbol? It is a St. peters cross which is supposed to portray his humility cuz he got crucified upside down.

I do believe in context of anti-christianity, the inverted cross has its origins in the Norse culture. Many believe the mjolnir pendant was used to show one's disaproval for Christianisation and in fact, such pendants appeared only in areas where intensive conversions caused apparence of Norsemen wearing crucifix pendants.
And doesn't mjolnir look like an inverted cross?
Especially the Icelandic one
"This second style is most familiar from the Icelandic Thor figure (fig 2) and resembles an inverted crucifix (indeed one amulet from Iceland looks exactly like an inverted cross and the merging of the two symbols was probably deliberate)."
Alternatively the anti-christian symbol might have no connections with the past (it doesn't really require much brain power to simply invert symbol of something you don't like).

But the connection with St. Peter's cross is (imo) highly doubtful.

the mjølner you mentioned often also have the head of Fenris bitting on the top of it... my old historie teacher who were working at a Viking museum told us that people began to wear these kinds of necklaces when christianity came to Denmark and they both wanted to show that they were christians but also still wanted blessings from the old gods.

I have a necklace with that exact cross on it, I bought it when I went to Jorvik Viking Museum in York last year. The explanation on the back said that it was known as the 'Dragon Hammer' and it's a replica of one that they excavated at Fossi in Iceland. It also said that it was a deliberate merging of the Viking and Christian symbols, so that the wearer would have protection from both. It looks a lot like an inverted cross, but somehow I don't think that it would have a St. Peter connection. I mean, I know that he was crucified upside down on Vatican Hill and everything, but I think the origin of the 'Satanic' inverted cross was just to symbolising the exact opposite of Christianity. Where Christians regard the cross as being holy, Satanists defile it by inverting it's good meaning.

Written by Zombie, M.D. on 02.02.2007 at 08:27

Could someone who is familiar with the biblical Satan explain to me why he was called Lucifer, which translates roughly to light-bringer/light-bearer?

Ok, Lucifer and Satan were two different beings all together, fell for two different reasons, and Lucifer means "The morning star" so Satan was yet a simple Angel, while Lucifer was the highest in heaven other then god. He had fallen for trying to which I believe rise up to god rather then above him, sort of the son wanting to follow in there fathers foot steps kind of thing, and he was then mainly shot down and sent to wander the earth for a millenia, and then sent to hell. PM me if you want to discuss more about the subject.

People saying i am satanist here in turkey mostly the ones who take part in the ceremonies just to have sex with girls.

Written by [user id=20725] on 16.02.2007 at 18:11

Written by Zombie, M.D. on 02.02.2007 at 08:27

Could someone who is familiar with the biblical Satan explain to me why he was called Lucifer, which translates roughly to light-bringer/light-bearer?

Ok, Lucifer and Satan were two different beings all together, fell for two different reasons, and Lucifer means "The morning star" so Satan was yet a simple Angel, while Lucifer was the highest in heaven other then god. He had fallen for trying to which I believe rise up to god rather then above him, sort of the son wanting to follow in there fathers foot steps kind of thing, and he was then mainly shot down and sent to wander the earth for a millenia, and then sent to hell. PM me if you want to discuss more about the subject.

i hate to sound like a nerd, but what you said is not entirely correct. in the christian mithology, satan and lucifer are one and the same. Lucifer was the greatest of kerubs, and by time, he became envy of god, thus he became his adversary(satan). there was a big battle, but eventually god wone, and he excomunicated Lucifer and his followers: 1/3 of all the angels in heaven. Satan became the rex mundi, the king of earth.

in roman and greek mithology lucifer is also the morning star, but there's no satan here. satan is present in the hebrew mithology. the christian satan is the mixure of these two.

Written by Damnated on 16.02.2007 at 18:49

Written by [user id=20725] on 16.02.2007 at 18:11

Written by Zombie, M.D. on 02.02.2007 at 08:27

Could someone who is familiar with the biblical Satan explain to me why he was called Lucifer, which translates roughly to light-bringer/light-bearer?

Ok, Lucifer and Satan were two different beings all together, fell for two different reasons, and Lucifer means "The morning star" so Satan was yet a simple Angel, while Lucifer was the highest in heaven other then god. He had fallen for trying to which I believe rise up to god rather then above him, sort of the son wanting to follow in there fathers foot steps kind of thing, and he was then mainly shot down and sent to wander the earth for a millenia, and then sent to hell. PM me if you want to discuss more about the subject.

i hate to sound like a nerd, but what you said is not entirely correct. in the christian mithology, satan and lucifer are one and the same. Lucifer was the greatest of kerubs, and by time, he became envy of god, thus he became his adversary(satan). there was a big battle, but eventually god wone, and he excomunicated Lucifer and his followers: 1/3 of all the angels in heaven. Satan became the rex mundi, the king of earth.

in roman and greek mithology lucifer is also the morning star, but there's no satan here. satan is present in the hebrew mithology. the christian satan is the mixure of these two.

I think X is right. The Biblical Satan isn't really linked with the name Lucifer directly. People just assume this is case due to fact that the Falling Star and Satan both happen to fall out of heaven (although cast out would probably be a better word in the case of Satan).

then pls explain to me why do chrsitan books and christians in genral refer to Satan as the lord of the light, the one in the light?

Written by Damnated on 16.02.2007 at 19:09

then pls explain to me why do chrsitan books and christians in genral refer to Satan as the lord of the light, the one in the light?

They jump to a lot of conclusions by various means. Its a faith based religion not a fact based one so they rarely come good when they speak of facts. As far as I know the Bible doesn't equate the two of them. In fact their occurances seem to occur at two different times so no proof that Lucifer = Satan!

Written by Damnated on 16.02.2007 at 19:09

then pls explain to me why do chrsitan books and christians in genral refer to Satan as the lord of the light, the one in the light?

Trust me, I may be only 16, but I've done research on this, the bible is flawed, extremely flawed, there are some things that confuse satan with Lucifer[Note how I didn't capitalize the "S" in "satan" and but spelled "Lucifer with a capitalization.] Lucifer was to proud of himself, satan was jealous, they are simply mainly insulting him by calling him satan, satan was just an angel, nothing more mind you, I forgot what Lucifer was called, and no it wasn't an arch angel, it started with an S and no it's not satan. It's like saying Damien who is Lucifer's son is evil, mind you he is an arch angel. Like I said though, you can PM me if you want to talk more about it, or add my MSN, it should be on my profile, but my MSN and email are the same thing. And I am always up for talking about this stuff.

Written by darksun on 16.02.2007 at 18:16

People saying i am satanist here in turkey mostly the ones who take part in the ceremonies just to have sex with girls.

I am considered a "Satanist" because I worship Lucifer, who is the devil, mind you he is not "satan" but either way, people just say we do rituals and such because all they hear about is that kind of stuff, some people DO do actual rituals, but, that isn't common where I am from.

@X yes what you say or do not common here.We have real satanists too but the common ones are who would fuck up if they saw real satan

Written by [user id=20559] on 16.02.2007 at 19:35

They jump to a lot of conclusions by various means. Its a faith based religion not a fact based one so they rarely come good when they speak of facts. As far as I know the Bible doesn't equate the two of them. In fact their occurances seem to occur at two different times so no proof that Lucifer = Satan!

i don't want to discuss christianity here. i was talking about the satan and lucifer in christianity, the way he's presented in the new testament. there, satan and lucifer are one and the same. i don't care how it is in other mithologies, christianity clearly sais that Lucifer=Satan. i even talked to a priest about this, and he confirmed what i'm saying.
and read the bible, for christ's sake

I always thought that it was kinda clear that Lucifer and Satan is the same (in christianity). Still, I'm certainly no expert at this subject

This topic is so fucking boring, I came here once in a mouth and always read the same, why don't you give some sub-question, and the discuss about that, and not about who is Lucifer for two mounths.

tell us, why aren't you a devil worshipper? i know i'd be interested...

I am atheist, I don't believe in Satan, Devil, Lucifer ot whatever you want, since I don't believe in them I don't believe in God. I would like to believe in anything but I can't, it is just to syupid for me. Some guy with supernatural powers, like some Marvel's hero. I read bible more than once in my search for faith, I was laughing while reading it, but literaturaly it is good book, but nothig more. I read LaVays book too, and it is better but he never mensioned that he reallly believe in devil and he never had any visions. I refused to read Alister Crowley. I read Christianity thread and this one every day with hope someone will say something that I will translate into real fate, but you are reapiting one the same for a very long time...

Written by APOHAKC on 17.02.2007 at 15:31

I am atheist, I don't believe in Satan, Devil, Lucifer ot whatever you want, since I don't believe in them I don't believe in God. I would like to believe in anything but I can't, it is just to syupid for me. Some guy with supernatural powers, like some Marvel's hero. I read bible more than once in my search for faith, I was laughing while reading it, but literaturaly it is good book, but nothig more. I read LaVays book too, and it is better but he never mensioned that he reallly believe in devil and he never had any visions. I refused to read Alister Crowley. I read Christianity thread and this one every day with hope someone will say something that I will translate into real fate, but you are reapiting one the same for a very long time...

Well you wont find real faith in christian dieties... If you really want to find faith in something put your faith into friends and family and dont bother with existensial questions. When you die everything will be known, patience is the key.

Written by [user id=5394] on 17.02.2007 at 16:08

Written by APOHAKC on 17.02.2007 at 15:31

I am atheist, I don't believe in Satan, Devil, Lucifer ot whatever you want, since I don't believe in them I don't believe in God. I would like to believe in anything but I can't, it is just to syupid for me. Some guy with supernatural powers, like some Marvel's hero. I read bible more than once in my search for faith, I was laughing while reading it, but literaturaly it is good book, but nothig more. I read LaVays book too, and it is better but he never mensioned that he reallly believe in devil and he never had any visions. I refused to read Alister Crowley. I read Christianity thread and this one every day with hope someone will say something that I will translate into real fate, but you are reapiting one the same for a very long time...

Well you wont find real faith in christian dieties... If you really want to find faith in something put your faith into friends and family and dont bother with existensial questions. When you die everything will be known, patience is the key.

Pur your faith into the music that makes you happy, makes you feel complete.

Written by Black Mass on 18.02.2007 at 08:10

Pur your faith into the music that makes you happy, makes you feel complete.

Very true!

Written by [user id=20725] on 16.02.2007 at 18:11

Written by Zombie, M.D. on 02.02.2007 at 08:27

Could someone who is familiar with the biblical Satan explain to me why he was called Lucifer, which translates roughly to light-bringer/light-bearer?

Ok, Lucifer and Satan were two different beings all together, fell for two different reasons, and Lucifer means "The morning star" so Satan was yet a simple Angel, while Lucifer was the highest in heaven other then god. He had fallen for trying to which I believe rise up to god rather then above him, sort of the son wanting to follow in there fathers foot steps kind of thing, and he was then mainly shot down and sent to wander the earth for a millenia, and then sent to hell. PM me if you want to discuss more about the subject.

There is no direct reference to Lucifer being synomous with Satan other than the parallel of Satan falling from grace as mentioned in revelations and the translation of morning star ( in Isaiah ) falling as a metaphor for Babylons destruction.

If you see passages saying otherwise, I'd be glad to read them.

Written by Sunioj on 18.02.2007 at 15:12

Written by [user id=20725] on 16.02.2007 at 18:11

Written by Zombie, M.D. on 02.02.2007 at 08:27

Could someone who is familiar with the biblical Satan explain to me why he was called Lucifer, which translates roughly to light-bringer/light-bearer?

Ok, Lucifer and Satan were two different beings all together, fell for two different reasons, and Lucifer means "The morning star" so Satan was yet a simple Angel, while Lucifer was the highest in heaven other then god. He had fallen for trying to which I believe rise up to god rather then above him, sort of the son wanting to follow in there fathers foot steps kind of thing, and he was then mainly shot down and sent to wander the earth for a millenia, and then sent to hell. PM me if you want to discuss more about the subject.

There is no direct reference to Lucifer being synomous with Satan other than the parallel of Satan falling from grace as mentioned in revelations and the translation of morning star ( in Isaiah ) falling as a metaphor for Babylons destruction.

If you see passages saying otherwise, I'd be glad to read them.

You just said yourself "There is no direct reference to Lucifer being synomous with Satan" and, if you had researched about them, you would know, they fell for two different reasons. You can believe all you want, but you should also know that all the different religions which have a evil and good in it, they all say something different. Do you want me to go over how they both fell?

Lucifer had too much pride, and believed he should be a god, as he attempted to rise up towards god, and mainly got shot down. As he was meant to roam the earth for a millenia[Or how ever the fuck you spell it.] until he was sent to well, as embarrassing as this is, I forgot how to spell it. Either way, he was sent to await his punishment, then sent to hell.

Satan, he fell for tricking eve into eating the forbidden fruit. Either by enchanting a serpent or becoming one himself, that was his crime. He was jealous of god's love for Adam, which I guess could be seen as Lucifer and God, in a way, but either way, Satan was an angel, not as high as Lucifer, not even close.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense, I just woke up not to long ago, and I only go by what I researched, so, there are some things that I don't know about it, but I do know that satan and Lucifer are not the same.

Written by APOHAKC on 17.02.2007 at 15:31

I am atheist, I don't believe in Satan, Devil, Lucifer ot whatever you want, since I don't believe in them I don't believe in God. I would like to believe in anything but I can't, it is just to syupid for me. Some guy with supernatural powers, like some Marvel's hero. I read bible more than once in my search for faith, I was laughing while reading it, but literaturaly it is good book, but nothig more. I read LaVays book too, and it is better but he never mensioned that he reallly believe in devil and he never had any visions. I refused to read Alister Crowley. I read Christianity thread and this one every day with hope someone will say something that I will translate into real fate, but you are reapiting one the same for a very long time...

The bible is extremely flawed, I won't even bother looking at it, humanity and the bible are as flawed as eachother, I use to be atheist myself, then I decided to do research, considering the story of Lilth[Spell Check?] and Adam, I found God to be sexist. Adam was an asshole, and Lilth stood up for herself. I usually talk with others about this stuff, but not to the point of what I see here. This is suppose to be simple talk about Satanism, yet, I only feel like everybody is arguing with each other. Kind of disappointing.

Oh, and by the way, there are many other religions and gods you could have faith in, some might not be as far fetched as God. Who apparently represents all that is good in the world, yet, he is sexist. I don't believe in jesus though, because I saw Lucifer as god's true son. I will check back at a later time, so ya.

Written by darksun on 17.02.2007 at 00:30

@X yes what you say or do not common here.We have real satanists too but the common ones are who would fuck up if they saw real satan

Satanism is the worship of an anti god, Lucifer is among them. Sorry for repeating myself, this is to clarify but, as I read it, you either said I wasn't one of the common Satanists here, or I am not one, so please clarify that for me.

Written by [user id=20725] on 18.02.2007 at 17:05

Written by Sunioj on 18.02.2007 at 15:12

Written by [user id=20725] on 16.02.2007 at 18:11

Written by Zombie, M.D. on 02.02.2007 at 08:27

Could someone who is familiar with the biblical Satan explain to me why he was called Lucifer, which translates roughly to light-bringer/light-bearer?

Ok, Lucifer and Satan were two different beings all together, fell for two different reasons, and Lucifer means "The morning star" so Satan was yet a simple Angel, while Lucifer was the highest in heaven other then god. He had fallen for trying to which I believe rise up to god rather then above him, sort of the son wanting to follow in there fathers foot steps kind of thing, and he was then mainly shot down and sent to wander the earth for a millenia, and then sent to hell. PM me if you want to discuss more about the subject.

There is no direct reference to Lucifer being synomous with Satan other than the parallel of Satan falling from grace as mentioned in revelations and the translation of morning star ( in Isaiah ) falling as a metaphor for Babylons destruction.

If you see passages saying otherwise, I'd be glad to read them.

You just said yourself "There is no direct reference to Lucifer being synomous with Satan" and, if you had researched about them, you would know, they fell for two different reasons. You can believe all you want, but you should also know that all the different religions which have a evil and good in it, they all say something different. Do you want me to go over how they both fell?

Lucifer had too much pride, and believed he should be a god, as he attempted to rise up towards god, and mainly got shot down. As he was meant to roam the earth for a millenia[Or how ever the fuck you spell it.] until he was sent to well, as embarrassing as this is, I forgot how to spell it. Either way, he was sent to await his punishment, then sent to hell.

Satan, he fell for tricking eve into eating the forbidden fruit. Either by enchanting a serpent or becoming one himself, that was his crime. He was jealous of god's love for Adam, which I guess could be seen as Lucifer and God, in a way, but either way, Satan was an angel, not as high as Lucifer, not even close.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense, I just woke up not to long ago, and I only go by what I researched, so, there are some things that I don't know about it, but I do know that satan and Lucifer are not the same.

Maybe Im a bit confused, because I was replying to what you said about Lucifer, sorry if I wasnt clear. Where in the Bible does it say all information? I think we both agree that they arent the same, but Im just perplexed, in the context of the 'Christian lucifer' where is he mentioned in further detail about the rising against detail?

Followers of orthodox satanism as in "anti-god" or any for of satanic diety at all are not any better than a christian / jew or a muslim, because by creating their anti-god they accept the being of a god. Thus it is incredibly retarded to even worship something that is anti something that is supposed to be good.

To create an anti something, there has to be a something. Your satanic logic is really flawed.

Written by [user id=20725] on 18.02.2007 at 17:21

Written by darksun on 17.02.2007 at 00:30

@X yes what you say or do not common here.We have real satanists too but the common ones are who would fuck up if they saw real satan

Satanism is the worship of an anti god, Lucifer is among them. Sorry for repeating myself, this is to clarify but, as I read it, you either said I wasn't one of the common Satanists here, or I am not one, so please clarify that for me.

Yes what i tried to say you are REAL one for me.Satanists in turkey-herer refers to turkey not ms- try to act like satan worshipers although they are not.

@darksun
Who tries to act like a satanist? And what is a real satanist in your opinion?