Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.05.2014 at 23:18

I haven't listened to this but what constitutes "metal" these days is becoming increasingly subjective (as per deadone's thread about what is metal these days). I know you like to categorize things in terms of black and white but in the case of Agalloch it isn't that simple.

To be honest, I indeed like to categorize things (in general), but I won't ever say Agalloch are a 100% metal band. But saying they aren't metal anymore simply isn't true. They have at least enough metal in their sound to be considered a metal band.

But not factually true. There are certain perspectives that would not deem this metal because of how far it's strayed from metal's roots. You can't say they are objectively wrong thus this is not "factually" metal.

What Joe said. You have the perspective that this is predominantly metal, Erik, but others have the perspective that it isn't. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's just opinion as Opethian pointed out.

Their worst album !!!!!!!!

^This

Not the best but I like it.

Pretty much a more straightforward version of Ashes that favors aggression over atmosphere and that's never a good thing in regards to Agalloch. By far the worst album in their discography for me.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.05.2014 at 23:27

Pretty much a more straightforward version of Ashes that favors aggression over atmosphere and that's never a good thing in regards to Agalloch. By far the worst album in their discography for me.

If we count only studio albums then this is their "worst" one, still listenable but I can't see myself going through my Agalloch collection and picking this one over any of their other albums.

Written by [user id=150128] on 29.05.2014 at 01:18
If we count only studio albums then this is their 'worst', still listenable but I can't see myself going through my agalloch collection and picking to listen to this over their other stuff.. like ever..

Exactly. I think they released a remix EP called The Grey or something that was terrible and far worse than this but in terms of full-lengths this just doesn't have enough going for it. Why bother with it if I can listen to Ashes or The Mantle since both of those do what this tries to do but far better. And then of course there's The White EP which I love but has a completely different sound.

Yeah i like the white and even the first song on grey, but for totally different reasons than any of the full lengths.

Lots of 8s here, seems about right. Its not a bad record, in fact its a good record, but its just not as monumental as some of the earlier albums, 2 and 3 especially.

An awesome album, great if i want to judge it separate from their original style, anyway, i did't like the new theme, it has more doom material than before and i think it's parting from the old Agalloch i love...
it's great in it's own way and i love it, but hoped it was like before

As I said in the Agalloch best album thread, my favorite thing about this band is that they manage to reinvent themselves with each new release. That's something I respect an awful lot artistically, but it is also risky as a business decision. If you're a popular band and change styles, there are going to be a lot of fans of your older stuff that shit all over you for not just rehashing the stuff that they fell in love with years ago. Meanwhile, if you get high ratings from the critics, the people that didn't like you to start with are going to be even more annoyed at your success and claim that you're overrated even more loudly than usual.

Don't get me wrong; sometimes the new stuff just isn't as good as the old stuff (sorry, Katatonia.) But many times, the new stuff is very good in its own right. I think that is the case here. Where will I see it fitting in to the discography overall? That's hard to say until I've had time to fully absorb it and reflect on it. But I definitely like it, and appreciate the band's willingness to try something new with each record.

Very disappointed with this. Just... boring

I seems to lack a lot of the memorable and beautiful moments that albums like The Mantle or Ashes Against the Grain had.

Well, this band seems to now be subject to "Metallica Syndrome"

Everyone is complaining about how its not as good as the Mantle or Ashes against the Grain. Simply because this album is not as great as the previous albums, it gets shit on, akin to Metallica's Load, which was a fairly great rock album, just for not being dictionary definition thrash.

This album is great, "Celestial Effigy" already becoming one of my favorite Agalloch songs. This album is every bit "Agalloch" as the rest of them. Bands need to eventually progress, otherwise we get things like Slayer, who just release generic thrash music that isn't very original.

8.9/10

Written by Rsrdaman on 22.06.2014 at 11:23

Well, this band seems to now be subject to "Metallica Syndrome"
Everyone is complaining about how its not as good as the Mantle or Ashes against the Grain. Simply because this album is not as great as the previous albums, it gets shit on, akin to Metallica's Load, which was a fairly great rock album, just for not being dictionary definition thrash.

Yeah, any band that manages to become relatively famous and release more than a couple albums will suffer from that.
Those who have heard their first stuff as an introduction to the genre will carry the "first contact" feeling inside themselves and unconsciously associate that with those first albums...
Then whenever they hear something new by that band, if it's on the same line as their previous works, they'll not get that "first contact" feeling again and claim that it's boring or that the band is copying itself.
And if the band tries to release something new, different form their previous stuff, they'll say that the change sucks and the previous works were infinitely better. The band can never win.

I think it can also be carried to more unknown bands on the same genre. For instance, an underground band can make something based on Agalloch's works which sounds every bit as well written and everything, but on the head of the listener he isn't listening to what he associated Agalloch's first albums with, and thus it will always seem worse than Agalloch's stuff. Meaning that no folk/doom/black band can ever be as good as Agalloch or something like that. That's why underground bands keep underrated =P

Why are people bringing up Metallica and Slayer in an Agalloch album thread? Load is a crap album regardless of genre and has nothing to do with being compared to Metallica's previous works. As a stand-alone album it isn't any better or worse than when held up against the likes of their thrash material from the '80s. This album, however, still follows the same formula Agalloch have become renowned for. It doesn't stray from the path they've been walking since they formed as a band, but it is far more straightforward and doesn't have the same enveloping atmosphere as Ashes or The Mantle.

That's what people are complaining about (or not, depending on what you're looking for from this). It has nothing to do with this so-called Metallica syndrome.

This is rapidly losing its value for me. Think that it's even worse than MotS, which at least had stand out track with great atmosphere. This one, on the other hand, is flat and dry.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 22.06.2014 at 17:30

Why are people bringing up Metallica and Slayer in an Agalloch album thread? Load is a crap album regardless of genre and has nothing to do with being compared to Metallica's previous works. As a stand-alone album it isn't any better or worse than when held up against the likes of their thrash material from the '80s. This album, however, still follows the same formula Agalloch have become renowned for. It doesn't stray from the path they've been walking since they formed as a band, but it is far more straightforward and doesn't have the same enveloping atmosphere as Ashes or The Mantle.

That's what people are complaining about (or not, depending on what you're looking for from this). It has nothing to do with this so-called Metallica syndrome.

You just did exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You along with many others continually say things like "doesn't have the same enveloping atmosphere as Ashes or The Mantle", making this album lesser by comparison. Just because it isn't like its predecessors, its bad? Put this album standalone from a new underground band and it would have no doubt gotten much higher ratings.

Written by Rsrdaman on 23.06.2014 at 06:42
You just did exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You along with many others continually say things like "doesn't have the same enveloping atmosphere as Ashes or The Mantle", making this album lesser by comparison. Just because it isn't like its predecessors, its bad? Put this album standalone from a new underground band and it would have no doubt gotten much higher ratings.

This album is lesser than its predecessors by comparison because it's simply derivative of those albums without expanding upon the sound. It isn't unlike its predecessors at all actually, which (if anything) is a big reason why people claim that it's one of the weakest - if not the weakest - Agalloch album to date.

Put this album standalone from a new underground band and the only people who would likely care about it are the ones who make a concerted effort to dig that kind of stuff up. Because this is an Agalloch album it's getting all kinds of widespread attention and with that comes expectations from fans and newcomers alike. While that might make for some unwarranted negative reactions (we all know how hype tends to impact mainstream appeal), overall I think people (particularly users on Metal Storm) are judging this according to what they hear rather than basing it on how similar or dissimilar it is to previous Agalloch albums.

If it was released by some other underground band, it would get labelled as Agalloch clones / wannabes anyway

Very solid stuff. Like many have said already, this probably is Agalloch's weakest effort, but that's actually a testament to how good their back catalog is.

It's more simplistic and streamlined compared to their other stuff, which is not necessarily a bad thing, so I'll consider this Agalloch's "fun" album. It delivers a signature Agalloch style without requiring too much attention, so it's almost tailor-made for some easy listening, when you want something like Agalloch but not quite as taxing. Agalloch "lite", if you prefer.

I couldn't relate to it at first but now I am in love with it. reminds me of the early works. very well done. Always my favorite band.

Im not into this one...

Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.06.2014 at 06:53

Written by Rsrdaman on 23.06.2014 at 06:42
You just did exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You along with many others continually say things like "doesn't have the same enveloping atmosphere as Ashes or The Mantle", making this album lesser by comparison. Just because it isn't like its predecessors, its bad? Put this album standalone from a new underground band and it would have no doubt gotten much higher ratings.

This album is lesser than its predecessors by comparison because it's simply derivative of those albums without expanding upon the sound. It isn't unlike its predecessors at all actually, which (if anything) is a big reason why people claim that it's one of the weakest - if not the weakest - Agalloch album to date.

Put this album standalone from a new underground band and the only people who would likely care about it are the ones who make a concerted effort to dig that kind of stuff up. Because this is an Agalloch album it's getting all kinds of widespread attention and with that comes expectations from fans and newcomers alike. While that might make for some unwarranted negative reactions (we all know how hype tends to impact mainstream appeal), overall I think people (particularly users on Metal Storm) are judging this according to what they hear rather than basing it on how similar or dissimilar it is to previous Agalloch albums.

I agree with these sentiments. The Serpent & The Sphere does sound very sonically similar to the band's previous works and atmospherically it especially reminds me of Ashes Against The Grain. I understand Agalloch were trying to go with a more "cosmic" theme this time around but the music, to my ears, doesn't really reflect this - it still all sounds very earthy and "rooted" if you will. I do not fault the band for sounding like, well, themselves and I do like The Serpent & The Sphere more than Marrow Of The Spirit (which is my least favorite release of theirs but that's another story) but it does seem that the band is losing a bit of steam somewhere though I admit that it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what it is. All the same, I think it's a good album but not amidst Agalloch's best.

My opinion is that Agalloch managed to record an album worthy of a band's fame. It mostly sounds similar to the band's previous works, but still it sounds fresh and interesting enough. Not the album of the year, by any means, but definitely a great addition to a collection of any fan of Oregon quartet.
My personal favourites: Celestial Effigy, Vales Beyond Dimension, Plateau of the Ages.

Probably my favorite album of the year. Unless something comes up or I here something else, anyway.

This album is very creative in areas, particularly The Astral Dialogue and (Serpens Cauda), but I felt the creativity lacked in other areas of the album. Especially mid way through. But it's made up well with the overall consistency, overall a solid album with cool songs

Pretty boring album. It's not bad by any means, but wow... does it go nowhere! No standout songs, no bad songs... just flat...