Evolution (and some Creationism, too)
Original post
Posted by Götter, 08.04.2007 - 02:05
Okay, so what do we have? Evolution is at present (and, hopefully, in the future) THE way of seeing our world. It's the only one that has some scientific credibility tagged to it. These days, religions are rightfully required to adjust themselves to science, not the opposite; world-views that blatantly deny evolution, like intelligent design, are running out on their lease of life. I am not a qualified statistician or a seer, I cannot tell whether the entirety of religion is in its death throes, but creationism does seem to hint at something like that. Christianity had been slowly adapting itself to science when that heap of nonsense popped up in the twentieth century.
Now I am not trying to bash anyone just because they believe God created Heaven and Earth, but please look at the facts - the Theory of Evolution, despite its loose ends and controversies, is a working and proven theory. You should get used to it, or it's your loss. I know a lot of scientists are both religious and still they manage to accept evolution. In fact, despite what creationists would have us believe, there is no controversy in the scientific community regarding the evolution vs creation dispute. None at all - the scientists are unanimously in support of what Darwin started. What is happening in America is a bunch of overly religious people have found themselves in a situation where they can legally present their views as hard science and teach it in schools as such.
I guess me, being an European, shouldn't be overly concerned about all that - it'll never happen here. Yet if American children start getting such education, the entire world will be affected and our near future could get fucked up significantly. So I appeal to you all, especially Americans: fight against creationism (cretinism?) and for evolution. It's the only way.
Yes, I didn't actually post any scientific evidence for evolution, nor did I provide any links to sites containing that. What I also didn't do is refer to any specific creationist conspiracies and lies. The Internet is full of both of these things, look it up yourself. Start with Wikipedia, for instance. I do give a link to my current favorite song, "Creation Science 101" by Roy Zimmerman. Enjoy this, and common sense!
Poll
You don't disbelieve evolution, do you?
Nope.
175
I actually do for some weird reason.
39
Total votes: 214
| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306  |
Written by Shadrahk on 12.08.2011 at 17:34 Evolution is as much a theory as the existence of a great creator.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Shadrahk Posts: 23 |
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Shadrahk on 12.08.2011 at 17:45 You speak in facts? Sweet. Where's your proof?
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Dangerboner Lactation Cnslt Posts: 7262  |
Written by Shadrahk on 12.08.2011 at 17:45 Are you retarded, or just from the South?
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099  |
Written by Guest on 13.08.2011 at 01:30 Proof isn't needed to say that it's not true, as mentioned above it's a theory therefore not truth. Truth is only manifest in facts, Evolutionary theory is not fact it is a theory designed to make sense of observable objective facts. Since we cannot observe the entire process of evolution of any particular organism etc, it must follow that the theory isn't truth However, as this theory has been applied for so long and seems to accurately ascertain what it hypothesizes, in this sense, despite any unobserveable phenomena, it has been considered as "truth". But this is not absolute truth, it is a kind of truth which relies heavily upon the theory itself rather than what we can objectively perceive, that is to say this "truth" is "theory-laden". I rather doubt this is what Shadrahk had in mind though, otherwise he would have said "Except it's not absolutely true".
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| Shadrahk Posts: 23 |
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Shadrahk on 14.08.2011 at 06:20 Ya, I always thought Christianity was air-fucking-tight. Moving on...
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Shadrahk Posts: 23 |
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| rekkuza- Posts: 102  |
Please, Shadrahk, we would all love to hear your disproving of the theory of evolution. For starters, Charles Darwin was a bitter, bitter, crotchety old man who hated God and smoked weed on Tuesdays. Continue. 
---- The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it- Oscar Wilde
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| Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071  |
Written by Shadrahk on 14.08.2011 at 23:58 first major problem. Adam and Eve the first two people on earth created by God. They had two sons, one killed the other leaving one son... still those three populated the earth in the long run. Nice incestuous relationships and inbreeding going on there.
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099 |
Written by Guest on 15.08.2011 at 03:32 It applies to and is based upon unobservable as well as observable phenomena.
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Shadrahk on 14.08.2011 at 23:58 Do you really need another atheistic illustration of why your religion is considered a joke to so many people? It's the internet. I'm sure you can find enough information on that without me wasting my time explaining. What I am interested in, however, is how you claim evolution has too many holes in it but fail to back it up with any evidence. And there's (not surprisingly) hardly any valid counter-arguments that disprove evolution. In fact, I'm pretty sure the pope had something to say about evolution...along the lines that he believes in it or something. No big deal though, he's only like your god's right-hand man.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| jupitreas hi-fi / lo-life Staff Posts: 6659  |
Besides, evolution, as a scientific theory, allows for the possibility that it might be disproved by new evidence that is discovered. It will inevitably happen. I think this is really the essence of this conflict though - science vs. religion. In science, you constantly strive to understand reality better through objective means and you are not opposed to having your views disproved. After all, if evolution is ever disproved, this will allow for the formation of an even better theory. In religion, this is not the case. There is the word of God and you have to accept it no matter what your intuition and intellect tell you.
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099 |
Written by Guest on 17.08.2011 at 16:37 Very true but not ALL mutations which have occurred have been observed. In fact a minuscule amount of these mutations have been observed, what we base our theory of evolution upon is a small 'sample' of how mutation works. Prior to the development of this theory no-one 'observed' these mutations, at least in light of the theory because, obviously, it didn't exist yet. Even today when we apply this theory to the mutations we actually do observe, there are also those we do not (e.g some deep sea marine life). So the truth of the theory depends upon the notion that what we HAVE observed can accurately determine the nature of what we haven't observed. I'm not arguing against the theory, far from it, it's clearly an extremely useful idea that forms a core aspect of understanding of our humanity and where we come from. But the fact that it depends so heavily upon assuming that the unobserved stuff works just like what we have observed.
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| Valentin B Iconoclast Posts: 10084  |
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| ErnilEnNaur Account deleted |
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted Written by Valentin B on 17.08.2011 at 22:38 Don't be sure. You have no idea what some people think about the theory of evolution. It's validity has been challenged by invoking bananas and peanut butter for heaven's sake. Then there's Stephen Baldwin asking why are the monkeys still here. Someone on Youtube had a good response to that - if Americans came from Europeans, then why are the Europeans still here? 
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ThunderAxe1989
Account deleted Written by Guest on 07.11.2012 at 21:22 If only all christians thought like you do 
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| M C Vice ex-polydactyl Posts: 3353  |
Written by Guest on 07.11.2012 at 21:22 I don't mean to start a fight or anything, but does anything actually state that Adam was "human"? Not man, human. Maybe god made Adam as a monkey and humans evolved from there (or something farther back the evolutionary tree)? Like you said, the bible gives metaphors.
---- "Another day, another Doug." "I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples." " 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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| ThunderAxe1989 Account deleted |
ThunderAxe1989
Account deleted
@ M C Vice: Not to fixate on the "trivial", But the Theory of Evolution doesn't actually state that man came from monkies though. That's a common misconception, the Chimpanzee is genetically our nearest cousin Totally different species. Obviously we couldn't have come from them, because they would have evolved along with us if that were the case anyway, here's a nice mentally stimulating documentary I found: Charles Darwin was so fucking awesome, respect!
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| Rasputin Posts: 559  |
How about both theories are just theories, and we have no idea where, how and why we are here, and how we came to be?
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| Candlemass Defaeco Posts: 828  |
Written by Rasputin on 25.04.2013 at 21:52 As Newton's theory of gravitation or Quantum Theory are only theories? How about NOT? Evolution is a theory that extrapolates using scientific experiments - unlike Creationism that is; "Scientifically [Creationism is] worthless, philosophically it is confused, and theologically it is blinkered beyond repair. The same is true of its offspring, Intelligent Design Theory. But do not underestimate its social and political power." - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. And indeed we should not underestimate the social and political power of people who crawled from under rocks shepherded by annoying religious clergy to pollute our minds and our children's minds via our educational systems, at times using deception and outright lying under oath as they did at the Dover trials. Our origins are made and will made clearer by the sciences - and sadly humanity will keep being stalled by power hungry clergy.
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| Rasputin Posts: 559 |
Written by Candlemass on 26.04.2013 at 00:33 They are still theories last time I checked. Our periodic table is still theoretical, math is an abstract concept, and so on and so forth. Finite knowledge, finite mind cannot comprehend this reality, and this reality is another construct of our minds in this time and space, and time is an abstraction, and space is limitless, or so we think. Intelligent Design Theory makes more sense, than the random Big Bang, proverbial swamp of human existence, evolution from primates...I have no problem believing that we were created by something, but I have a problem in assuming that that something is still here. Science has been changing, therefore it is constant, it is not frozen in one spot. But science is the other coin of faith, and I think that creationism and scientific research actually have more connecting points, only, both faiths like to fight each other.
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| Candlemass Defaeco Posts: 828 |
Written by Rasputin on 26.04.2013 at 02:36
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