Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 18:17

I agree. I think in most female fronted bands, they female tends to be judged on a mixture of appearance and vocal talent. Which is why I think, say, Ann-louice (or however you spell her name, can't remember) from Diablo Swing Orchestra never made it as big as she, or the band, could have, because she didn't have what most would consider a 'marketable' appearance. And she is arguably better than all those pseudo-operatic vocalists - she recently left the band because of a career in opera.

But anyway, my point was less about female fronted (there is a billion of them) and more about all-female or majority-female bands, such as Blackthorn or Dreadnought or Myrkur. Female fronted bands tend to be all male musicians with the added 'sex appeal' of a super attractive gotho-hoe, as you call them. The ones who don't have a super attractive front lady don't tend to make it as big.

The one variable I haven't been taken into account are bands that have a minority of female members who aren't vocalists. I don't know enough about them, really.

True. Just a shame that "in the first place" was like, 40/50 years ago. Difficult to "fix" the problem when it is so rooted in the culture.

Yeah we are having this conversation a bit late.

Okay, but I don't think it is that important to make a distinction between female-fronted and all-female members. There is a majority of mediocrity in both. Look at Astarte for example, all female, and kinda shitty bm. Or Hole haha.
Maybe the ones with a less attractive female in the front don't make it as big, but no one can deny it still gives them extra attention. My point was really about the gender and the attention it gets, not really about the levels of attention it gets them compared to the level of their attractiveness.

But yeah we agree I suppose.

Also I forgot that you asked me if I knew about good one-woman projects or all female bands in metal. I actually don't think I know any that I like. And you already seem to know of much more about that than I do. I really hate female vocals most of the time .

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 18:34

Look at Astarte for example, all female, and kinda shitty bm.
really hate female vocals most of the time .

But Ilham... Astarte was cool
Just wanted to say that some of them are great though well yeah you hate them

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 18:34

Written by angel. on 10.09.2014 at 18:25

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 18:17


But anyway, my point was less about female fronted (there is a billion of them) and more about all-female or majority-female bands, such as Blackthorn or Dreadnought or Myrkur. Female fronted bands tend to be all male musicians with the added 'sex appeal' of a super attractive gotho-hoe, as you call them. The ones who don't have a super attractive front lady don't tend to make it as big.

oh wait but the girl who is playing in Dreadnought is really talented, she's multi-instrumentalist and has different styles of vocals and also as far I know she's one of the main songwriter in the band, I have never noticed that she promoted her music by her appearance.

I never said that. Or I didn't mean to say that. I might have fucked up my wording. My original point, way back yonder in the thread, was related to all-female or majority-female bands, such as those listed there, but it wasn't to do with promoting music using their appearance. That was a point Ilham brought up about female-fronted bands (I'm assuming such as Nightwish, Amaranthe, Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil etc). I may have made a mistake going back to my original point there. So, my bad.

But really Dreadnought girl is not mediocre at all, her musicianship is top notch and it doesn't have anything to do with her gender, just saying.

You are missing the point of this discussion Frit. It is not about whether this band or the other is cool or not. It's about the publicity they get because their main composer is female. Most of the ones we talked about wouldn't be known, or not as known if their members were male. That's all we're saying.

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 16:36

It is already, look at the number of people who listened to this and commented in the album thread in the last 24 hours.

You're making it worse. I blame you.

Damn I try to get what she says in denske but I cant get only few words , damn is this female band?

Written by [user id=114127] on 10.09.2014 at 19:34

You're making it worse. I blame you.

Haha. Yeah. Well it's not shit music, it's not like it doesn't deserve to be talked about. But you're a man and I'm woman, so I'll shut up if you tell me to.

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 20:15

Haha. Yeah. Well it's not shit music, it's not like it doesn't deserve to be talked about. But you're a man and I'm woman, so I'll shut up if you tell me to.

God I love the patriarchy.

I think Ilham you're not getting me again, I'm not considering or talking about these bands just because they have female musicians, but because they're really deserve my attention as they have artistic values, how would you think that a band like Madder Mortem, or Obscure Sphinx or Dreadnought or Royal Thunder or even Virgin Black get attention of the audience just because of their female members ? I think you didn't even check them out before you make your opinion about them.

Well, you keep focusing on details of the discourse and examples rather than on the general thesis I'm trying to develop. I never said I didn't like those, I never said there aren't any good female musicians out there.

Cool to see everyone talking about what they think of this EP.

Excuse us for not just throwing random "I like it!"/"I hate it!" comments around. We discussed the music itself earlier, and in the album thread.

Written by angel. on 10.09.2014 at 19:03

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 18:34

Written by angel. on 10.09.2014 at 18:25

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 18:17


But anyway, my point was less about female fronted (there is a billion of them) and more about all-female or majority-female bands, such as Blackthorn or Dreadnought or Myrkur. Female fronted bands tend to be all male musicians with the added 'sex appeal' of a super attractive gotho-hoe, as you call them. The ones who don't have a super attractive front lady don't tend to make it as big.

oh wait but the girl who is playing in Dreadnought is really talented, she's multi-instrumentalist and has different styles of vocals and also as far I know she's one of the main songwriter in the band, I have never noticed that she promoted her music by her appearance.

I never said that. Or I didn't mean to say that. I might have fucked up my wording. My original point, way back yonder in the thread, was related to all-female or majority-female bands, such as those listed there, but it wasn't to do with promoting music using their appearance. That was a point Ilham brought up about female-fronted bands (I'm assuming such as Nightwish, Amaranthe, Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil etc). I may have made a mistake going back to my original point there. So, my bad.

But really Dreadnought girl is not mediocre at all, her musicianship is top notch and it doesn't have anything to do with her gender, just saying.

They are. I never said Dreadnought was mediocre, nor that their musicianship is or is not top notch because of the gender of the members. Both Dreadnought girls are fantastic, as are the boys - I'm a huge fan of Dreadnought. I liked their first album and I'm looking forward to what they do in the future. It was just an example I used to represent what I was talking about initially - in their specific case a majority-female band. Though in Dread's case its 50-50, but still. Though if you wish to discuss about Dread, then I could argue that because they have not released a music video, their music can only be judged on it's merit. Not that it shouldn't be even if there is a video, but not having released a video means a lot of the "ermagerd, she is so pretty" groupies who only like them because of the females don't exist. Yet. But yeah, Dreadnought is awesome, and I'm not arguing that.

As I said after, it might not have been clear, but the bit where I say, "Female fronted bands tend to be..." is not related to Dreadnought, or Blackthorn, or Myrkar - because they aren't what I meant by "female-fronted" bands. Sure, they are fronted by a female (and I guess that might be a source of confusion) but it's not what I meant when I said it. So apologies.

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 21:25

Well, you keep focusing on details of the discourse and examples rather than on the general thesis I'm trying to develop. I never said I didn't like those, I never said there aren't any good female musicians out there.

"Most of the ones we talked about wouldn't be known, or not as known if their members were male" I think this statement of you says that you don't believe there is any qualified musician among women, but you just see them musicians who use their gender to promote their music rather than their musicianship.

Written by Zap on 10.09.2014 at 21:28

Cool to see everyone talking about what they think of this EP.

That's really what riled me up.

Written by angel. on 10.09.2014 at 21:32

"Most of the ones we talked about wouldn't be known, or not as known if their members were male" I think this statement of you says that you don't believe there is any qualified musician among women, but you just see them musicians who use their gender to promote their music rather than their musicianship.

First of all, I wasn't saying the musicians USED it as a way to promote themselves. It's more a comment on the fans than on the musicians. Plus, you're extrapolating, I can say "most" all I want and still recognise there is true musicianship in some bands with female members. One does not exclude the other. You're really just putting words in my mouth.

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 21:31

Excuse us for not just throwing random "I like it!"/"I hate it!" comments around. We discussed the music itself earlier, and in the album thread.

Haha don't worry about it, I was just pointing it out. I just thought it was funny that !J.O.O.E.! said at the beginning of this thread that a lot of her success came from her being a woman, and then seeing the thread fill up with comments about women in metal etc.
For the record, when I listened to the first song released I didn't even know it was a one-woman band.

EDIT: What I meant to say here is that people are complaining that she gets all the attention because she's a woman, but at the same time, the only things they're discussing is the fact that she's a woman. Seemed kind of ironic to me since all that discussion made this the most popular thread on Metal Storm.
I was too tired to articulate my thoughts well I guess

Written by Zap on 10.09.2014 at 21:45

Haha don't worry about it, I was just pointing it out. I just thought it was funny that !J.O.O.E.! said at the beginning of this thread that a lot of her success came from her being a woman, and then seeing the thread fill up with comments about women in metal etc.
For the record, when I listened to the first song released I didn't even know it was a one-woman band.

Okay . Streamed on Pitchfork for just that debut EP. 4000 listeners on Last.fm after two months of existence on the web. Lurker Of Chalice is at 20 000. And not nearly the same level of bm. Says it all really.

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 21:37

First of all, I wasn't saying the musicians USED it as a way to promote themselves. It's more a comment on the fans than on the musicians. Plus, you're extrapolating, I can say "most" all I want and still recognise there is true musicianship in some bands with female members. One does not exclude the other. You're really just putting words in my mouth.

CHILL OUT ! No you didn't mean that musicians wanted to use their gender to promote their music but wait you believe that their gender which is being a female is the main factor that they come to attention for majority of fans rather than their musical talent and musicianship, that's not really fair, that's already pinning women to their gender not their musicianship or skill, it's their fans' problem, they're not responsible for how the fans respond back to their music which might be just for fact that they are women in metal scene, that's the problem comes from the fan base who are mostly patriarch, they, the fans must have already learned that they were getting excited extraordinarily about a band because of a female member. I really hate all these discussions that rise only when a female musician step up this scene.

Written by Ilham on 10.09.2014 at 21:52

Okay . Streamed on Pitchfork for just that debut EP. 4000 listeners on Last.fm after two months of existence on the web. Lurker Of Chalice is at 20 000. And not nearly the same level of bm. Says it all really.

Yeah, I agree with you. It's just that this whole thread isn't gonna lessen the hype. Au contraire, it's the hottest topic on MS at the moment

Written by angel. on 10.09.2014 at 21:53

CHILL OUT ! No you didn't mean that musicians wanted to use their gender to promote their music but wait you believe that their gender which is being a female is the main factor that they come to attention for majority of fans rather than their musical talent and musicianship, that's not really fair, that's already pinning women to their gender not their musicianship or skill, it's their problem, they're not responsible for how the fans respond back to their music which might be just for fact that they are women in metal scene, that's the problem comes from the fan base who are mostly patriarch, they, the fans must have already learned that they were getting excited extraordinarily about a band because of a female member. I really hate all these discussions that rise only when a female musician step up this scene.

Hey, I'm chill. It's kind of a mistake to caps-lock someone and order them to chill, it usually has the opposite effect. Be thankful I don't have nerves like that.

You're kind of saying exactly what I said, I really don't understand why you keep quoting me thinking I said something wrong about women.

I don't think anyone said it was the women's problem or anything. I hope I didn't come across like that in my posts.

I used caps-lock to emphasize it for you, for the reason you though I was pushing words to your mouth and extrapolated. However, I'm off of this thread, and you people go on with you rants about a fucking woman who made music, not a musician !

Sorry for agreeing with you, you just don't seem to be able to see it.

Written by angel. on 10.09.2014 at 22:03
you people go on with you rants about a fucking woman who made music, not a musician !

Hmmm.

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 17:06
...female musicians in metal as a whole. If there were more female musicians...

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 17:35
...how does on inspire other aspiring musicians, whether worse or better musicians than Myrkur, to start a band?

I guess I didn't call her a musician.

It seems to me that the band is only getting press because it is a one-woman black metal project. The music is trash bin worthy, in my opinion, so there really isn't any other reason to be found for the random support Myrkur has been getting all of a sudden. I can think of too many bands to even count that deserve equal or more praise than this drivel, but similarly, press isn't something black metal has ever or should strive for, so I suppose lack of press is a good thing! Anyways, I wonder what the flavor of October will be? Maybe a one-armed kid with a solo grindcore band. Sounds pretty kvlt to me

Written by Doge of Venice on 10.09.2014 at 16:51

As for the whole "ermagerd, woman!" thing, well, I've got a weird view on that, I think. Though I should point out it's when a band is one-woman band or an all female, or majority female, band. Even if the music isn't great or 100% original I think they should be given publicity - purely so that other women see it and think, 'Fantastic, we don't just have to be the lead vocalist who shows a tonne of cleavage!".

To be honest, I disagree with that. Let's imagine publicity is actually linked to quality (even though these days it obviously isn't, but let's pretend we're in the ideal world and that is the case i.e. quality stuff should get publicity) then I say if there's 5 male only bands and 5 female only bands and 5 spots in a magazine or whatever open, and the male only ones are all better, then screw the other ones, and vice versa. By giving attention to the subpar music for non-musical elements it's just keeping up the patronizing.

So imagine it this way: using that previous example, let's say the 5 male only bands were clearly much better than any of the female only. But the magazine includes 3 male only bands and 2 female only bands just to be patronizing and in an attempt to look like "hey guys we include everyone on the playground" type of thing. Then 2 bands who are actually better than the ones who got patronized get screwed, even though they have more to contribute to the listener, etc.

I understand what you are saying about having more female artists out there inspiring people, but to be honest, the whole point of the equal opportunity stuff to me is that women are trying to show they are capable of doing the same stuff men are (and they are capable, in fact they excel in areas like sandwich-making and cleaning***). The way I see it if someone is actually a strong person with a passion for music they shouldn't need someone of a certain gender to inspire them, they should be inspired by the music and not need to be helped out by all the patronizing. And if their stuff is good, it gets attention, and if it's not, there should be an equal amount of people not giving a fuck about it. Hopefully you sort of understand what I'm saying.

***inb4 someone who doesn't understand sarcasm goes apeshit

Written by Electes on 10.09.2014 at 23:41

The music is trash bin worthy, in my opinion

I agree with that too, listened to a couple minutes and had to turn it off as it's pretty much dogshit

Listened to the stream for about 15 minutes, loved the music, then went on Bandcamp and purchaed a physical copy of the CD.
Don't really care about the fact that she's a woman; I'm amazed by any musician who handles all instruments and vocals on a black metal album.
Sort of reminded me of Avichi's Catharsis Absolute, one of my favourite albums of 2014 so far,

Ilham and Doge of Venice, came back here to say I guess I misread your comments, apologies.