I have been slowly working on a bit of a chart keeping track of what I think the history of metal is and I now present it to you so that you can mock and deride it to your pleasure. From that, I should be able to extract some constructive criticism.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51621351/History%20of%20Metal%20According%20to%20Me.jpg

(Yes, it's a spreadsheet. Shut up.)

First of all, I should note that a lot of this is kind of general. I have a lot of bands lined up with years, but they are not meant to be exact.

Second of all, I'm sure you'll notice that I chart a lot of bands and styles that aren't heavy metal (psychodelic rock, grunge, etc.). They are mostly there for context.

I certainly don't think that my chart is perfect at all, but I figured I might as well show what I've got and see if I've missed anything. In fact, I think I'm already feeling the piercing glare of HellishStar for not including any US Power Metal (I just don't know what to do with it!)

Sam Dunn called. He wants his chart back.

Needs more black metal.

Written by [user id=5630] on 13.12.2011 at 08:01
Needs more black metal.

Needs more everything.

That aint such a bad list for someone to get their teeth into some of the better revered bands.

Seeing you put punk variants in there can you find somewhere for the Dead Kennedys.

Haha, Excelfag.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 06:40

Sam Dunn called. He wants his chart back.

Cute.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 08:08

Written by [user id=5630] on 13.12.2011 at 08:01
Needs more black metal.

Needs more everything.

This was never meant to be some kind of massive, all-inclusive kind of chart. I'm mostly interested in posting the most important and influential bands within their respective genres. I admit that I was inspired by Sam Dunn to make a better chart than his flawed one, but mine isn't without flaws either and that's why it's here. Regarding black metal specifically, I also admit that I have listed to very little of it and thus makes me very much not an expert. I thought I tried to get the biggest bands about when they were important, though arguably a few could be pushed above Grunge's Big Blue Line of Death. Any recommendations for more recent but important black metal bands?

Written by listmor on 13.12.2011 at 13:02

That aint such a bad list for someone to get their teeth into some of the better revered bands.
Seeing you put punk variants in there can you find somewhere for the Dead Kennedys.

I admit that I don't know them that well (weren't they on the first Tony Hawk game). Would you put them under Punk or Hardcore Punk? I would also like to know how influential they were to heavy metal; I simply don't know.

Written by vezzy on 13.12.2011 at 13:09

Haha, Excelfag.

Technically, it's OpenOffice, but yeah. It's mostly because I don't have photoshop skills (yet). Otherwise, I would try to make it look more dynamic, like by having the bands official logos.

Written by bj_waters on 13.12.2011 at 17:27
Any recommendations for more recent but important black metal bands?

Darkthrone (early, later turned to crust punk), Dissection (their last was melodeath), Satyricon (relevant in their early years, garbage nowadays), Rotting Christ (pretty solid mix of gothic elements), Samael (pre-industrial stuff), Abigor (similar situation to Satyricon), Absu (for black/thrash), Dimmu Borgir (with the exception of the debut, pure sympho-black), Marduk (because how do you have Mayhem without Marduk?), Carpathian Forest (nice punk-inspired black metal - could add Impaled Nazarene here too), Enslaved (sort of that viking metal approach), Behemoth (before their death metal days), Summoning (for cheesy atmospheric Tolkien-inspired black metal)...

Those are some of the big-name bands that should help get you through most of the '90s, but there are still dozens of important bands you could include.

And there's also stuff like Judas Iscariot, Master's Hammer, Grand Belial's Key...

Stuff like Abruptum and Beherit.

Although I don't know how "popular" those would be for people just getting into the genre.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 21:06

Darkthrone (early, later turned to crust punk), Dissection (their last was melodeath), Satyricon (relevant in their early years, garbage nowadays), Rotting Christ (pretty solid mix of gothic elements), Samael (pre-industrial stuff), Abigor (similar situation to Satyricon), Absu (for black/thrash), Dimmu Borgir (with the exception of the debut, pure sympho-black), Marduk (because how do you have Mayhem without Marduk?), Carpathian Forest (nice punk-inspired black metal - could add Impaled Nazarene here too), Enslaved (sort of that viking metal approach), Behemoth (before their death metal days), Summoning (for cheesy atmospheric Tolkien-inspired black metal)...

Those are some of the big-name bands that should help get you through most of the '90s, but there are still dozens of important bands you could include.

And there's also stuff like Judas Iscariot, Master's Hammer, Grand Belial's Key...

Stuff like Abruptum and Beherit.

Although I don't know how "popular" those would be for people just getting into the genre.

Wow, this is really helpful. Despite the fact that I can count the number of black metal songs I've listened to on two hands, I recognized about half of those bands. I went ahead and fixed it up and replaced the old one, but here's the link again so you don't have to go back to the top of the page.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51621351/History%20of%20Metal%20According%20to%20Me.jpg

Just in general, I'm not going to focus so much on the fusion genres or variations. I really want to stay within (what I consider to be) the main genres of metal: Heavy (or Traditional), Power, Progressive, Thrash, Death, Black, Doom, Folk, and Gothic (with Viking and Symphonic being treated as additional twists than any specific genre). Anything that doesn't beyond those nine subgenres are either variants within a genre (brutal death, funeral doom) fusions between metal genres (progressive power, blackened thrash), or fusions with other genres that push the music outside the scope of (what I call) metal (nu metal, metalcore). To be honest, I probably have too much metalcore on there already.

Because I don't want to clutter up the chart with every band in each scene, I mostly want to list those who innovated or pushed their genre forward in some way, with popularity being a secondary reason.

Written by bj_waters on 14.12.2011 at 01:24
Because I don't want to clutter up the chart with every band in each scene, I mostly want to list those who innovated or pushed their genre forward in some way, with popularity being a secondary reason.

Understandable. I have a few other problems with this. Whether you wanna fix it or not (because it's more of an opinion and yours might differ) is up to you.

For hard rock you actually list a lot of general rock bands. As you go up in years, you seem to add more AOR/soft rock type bands.

And I'm not sure if you really wanna tie grunge and post-grunge into a metal chart. It seems contradictory.

And you list "proto metal" and "traditional metal" but not NWOBHM. Metalcore should also be much closer to hardcore punk (you should also look into adding Cro-Mags) with black after thrash since Venom by all accounts were a thrash band that influenced black metal. (Although that's a 1st gen BM vs. 2nd gen BM argument, where someone like me refers to Mercyful Fate as heavy metal.)

Also, your death metal list is lacking, especially since you decided to add Swedish death metal. If you're going to do that, you might as well add the Florida and New York scenes from the US for death metal. And then you've got all the Finnish stuff like Insomnium, Be'lakor, Omnium Gatherum...

Written by bj_waters on 14.12.2011 at 01:24

Because I don't want to clutter up the chart with every band in each scene, I mostly want to list those who innovated or pushed their genre forward in some way, with popularity being a secondary reason.

Then I would reccomend adding Avant-Guarde on there. It is IMO one of the most important genre these days in term of innovation. Bands like Unexpect, Sigh or Diablo Swing Orchestra to name the most popular contributed a lot to the music and how metal is perceived. I think also in the psychedelic rock or proto-rock Blue Oyster Cult deserves a place. I don't know enough about history to say if they just followed in the footstep of the others, but I deffinetly feel a Metal vibe when I hear them.

There's a few bands in the wrong genre but that's not that big of deal. You could add another wave of Black Metal but again this is your list and if you don care about black metal that's your call.
Here's somthing i found that maybe you'd want to see it's similar to what you've done here, just more inclusive.

http://mapofmetal.com/#/home

Written by listmor on 13.12.2011 at 13:02

Seeing you put punk variants in there can you find somewhere for the Dead Kennedys.

I admit that I don't know them that well (weren't they on the first Tony Hawk game). Would you put them under Punk or Hardcore Punk? I would also like to know how influential they were to heavy metal; I simply don't know.

I would put them under Hardcore Punk, and only suggested it since you did have the punk genre's listed. Whether they had any influence (or where influenced) by metal I aint the one to make that call. They did have some fantastic albums though.

Nice chart but why put DoomSword in there who are of no relevance to the doom scene whatsoever. Yes, they are enjoyable but not of any importance.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.12.2011 at 08:53
Nice chart but why put DoomSword in there who are of no relevance to the doom scene whatsoever. Yes, they are enjoyable but not of any importance.

I was waiting for you to drop by. I didn't mention anything about doom - figured you'd clear up any problems.

You could probably help out a lot with OSDM as well.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 01:39

For hard rock you actually list a lot of general rock bands. As you go up in years, you seem to add more AOR/soft rock type bands.

This progression is actually intentional. I personally feel that there is very little difference between the likes of Boston and Journey and the Pop Metal scene with Van Halen, Def Leppard, and Europe. I kind of consider it to be a transition of one type of radio-friendly rock to another.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 01:39

And I'm not sure if you really wanna tie grunge and post-grunge into a metal chart. It seems contradictory.

Maybe it's because I'm American, but I really think that one cannot talk about the history of metal without bring up the influence and impact of grunge. If I was using something more dynamic like photoshop, I could show it leading into sludge and (arguably) nu metal.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 01:39

And you list "proto metal" and "traditional metal" but not NWOBHM. Metalcore should also be much closer to hardcore punk (you should also look into adding Cro-Mags)

This will probably make your (and many other people's) teeth grind, but I'm placing NWOBHM within Traditional Metal by including (what I'm assuming to be) the two biggest acts from that scene: Saxon and Iron Maiden. I also admit my lack of crossover thrash and the connection from hardcore punk to metalcore, but with the later I would suggest that since metalcore is on the fringes of (what I consider) metal, hardcore punk has more to do with thrash. Probably to-may-to, to-mah-to.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 01:39

Also, your death metal list is lacking, especially since you decided to add Swedish death metal. If you're going to do that, you might as well add the Florida and New York scenes from the US for death metal. And then you've got all the Finnish stuff like Insomnium, Be'lakor, Omnium Gatherum...

Duly noted.

Written by Edmund Fogg on 14.12.2011 at 01:46

Then I would reccomend adding Avant-Guarde on there. It is IMO one of the most important genre these days in term of innovation. Bands like Unexpect, Sigh or Diablo Swing Orchestra to name the most popular contributed a lot to the music and how metal is perceived. I think also in the psychedelic rock or proto-rock Blue Oyster Cult deserves a place. I don't know enough about history to say if they just followed in the footstep of the others, but I deffinetly feel a Metal vibe when I hear them.

I will admit that this chart very much reflects with my experience with the various genres of heavy metal and I haven't really listened to Avant-Garde ANYTHING, let alone metal. I'd be tempted to put them under Progressive Metal (as a new category), but I just haven't listened to enough of it to really understand where it would fit on my chart. As for Blue Oyster Cult, they're already hiding under my hard rock genre. I know they are considered early heavy metal by some and, again, my experience with them is limited, but what I have heard I would classify as classic rock or hard rock.

Written by Fade To Black on 14.12.2011 at 02:56

There's a few bands in the wrong genre but that's not that big of deal. You could add another wave of Black Metal but again this is your list and if you don care about black metal that's your call.

If there is a 3rd wave of black metal, I would certainly be open to some band names.

Written by Fade To Black on 14.12.2011 at 02:56

Here's somthing i found that maybe you'd want to see it's similar to what you've done here, just more inclusive.
http://mapofmetal.com/#/home

I'm very well aware of that website and have even directed others to it. However, my goal with this isn't really to publish it as some kind of definitive stamp on the history of metal. It's mostly for myself as a reference for various metal history discussions, but after tinkering with it for a while, I felt I had reached the limit of what I could do by myself, which is why I posted it here.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.12.2011 at 08:53

Nice chart but why put DoomSword in there who are of no relevance to the doom scene whatsoever. Yes, they are enjoyable but not of any importance.

Once again, my lack of knowledge gets me into trouble. If not DoomSword, then who would be better to represent the later years of Doom Metal? While Heaven Wept?

Written by bj_waters on 14.12.2011 at 08:58
...

Technically you should scrap names like Judas Iscariot and Grand Belial's Key, since as far as I know they weren't exactly revolutionary.

I know you don't want sub-sub-genres, so you'll most likely be leaving out most of the symphonic/melodic black metal bands that spawned as a result of Borgir's popularity. But then you've got the pagan black metal stuff like Temnozor (also NS but whatever), Drudkh, Negura Bunget, Nokturnal Mortum (also NS), Drautran, Kampfar, etc. and the depressive black metal stuff (like Bethlehem (first few releases), Shining (before the became more progressive black), Xasthur (mix of atmospheric and depressive), Leviathan, Lifelover (who incorporate punk elements)...

As for a third wave of black metal - that would be happening right now (people are referring to it as "blackgaze" - black metal + shoegaze like Alcest, Les Discrets, Deafheaven, etc.).

I know that's a lot to take in just for one genre, but that's not even close to what you'd need if you want a proper chart of metal. This is a very big project you're undertaking.

No Symphonic or Viking? Although both aren't always considered genres in the're own right. And no Gothic (which would come from Doom, like Death came from Thrash).

Written by M C Vice on 14.12.2011 at 09:51

No Symphonic or Viking? Although both aren't always considered genres in the're own right. And no Gothic (which would come from Doom, like Death came from Thrash).

actually gothic has nothing do with doom and is actually a genre outside of metal, think The Children, Southern Deathcult etc.

It's only when Gothic rock started to cross pollinate with doom that gothic metal came to be. so it's not like it grew out of doom

I'd lend you a hand with prog but I don't know exactly where to start, suggestions will come tomorrow what do the years represent, the formation or the first album? Because 2000 for Sonata Arctica is off for both.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.12.2011 at 09:56

It's only when Gothic rock started to cross pollinate with doom that gothic metal came to be. so it's not like it grew out of doom

Well, Gothic Metal kind of offshooted from Doom, as a loose hybrid of Gothic Rock and Doom Metal. I didn't mean that all gothic music was from Doom metal, just the metal variety.

Nice list, tho I think I miss some subgenres like Pagan Metal (Falkenbach, Moonsorrow, Graveland,..) or Viking Metal (Thyrfing, Einherjer, Windir)... I also think that Suomi Metal could be a kind of subgenre, tho it is a bit complicated cause it might be made of different styles, but the melancholic feeling of Timo Rautiainen, Amorphis, Before The Dawn, Eternal Tears of Sorrow is distinctive in my point of view. Tho this is just an opinion

Well done sir. You've got a pretty nice selection of bands that are representative of the genres. Still, I think you could have fit a little more in the progressive metal section, and Kansas is definitely more on the progressive rock side. There's always room for improvement, but it's pretty good. And Yes is great!

Written by enumaelis on 14.12.2011 at 18:17
...Amorphis, Before The Dawn, Eternal Tears of Sorrow...

None of those bands are "Suomi metal".

I've never seen the term used anywhere outside of Metal Storm, but from what I understand it's basically pussified melancholic rock, basically the exact same thing as goth rock.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 21:06
And there's also stuff like Judas Iscariot, Master's Hammer, Grand Belial's Key...

Heh,l maybe I don't know as much BM as I thought because I don't know how bands like Judas Iscariot are relevant at all.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 14.12.2011 at 23:22
Heh,l maybe I don't know as much BM as I thought because I don't know how bands like Judas Iscariot are relevant at all.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 09:11
Technically you should scrap names like Judas Iscariot and Grand Belial's Key, since as far as I know they weren't exactly revolutionary.

Written by Milena on 14.12.2011 at 11:09

I'd lend you a hand with prog but I don't know exactly where to start, suggestions will come tomorrow what do the years represent, the formation or the first album? Because 2000 for Sonata Arctica is off for both.

Yeah, you're probably right. I remember having a different idea about that, but changing them to 1999 might be better.

Written by enumaelis on 14.12.2011 at 18:17

Nice list, tho I think I miss some subgenres like Pagan Metal (Falkenbach, Moonsorrow, Graveland,..) or Viking Metal (Thyrfing, Einherjer, Windir)... I also think that Suomi Metal could be a kind of subgenre, tho it is a bit complicated cause it might be made of different styles, but the melancholic feeling of Timo Rautiainen, Amorphis, Before The Dawn, Eternal Tears of Sorrow is distinctive in my point of view. Tho this is just an opinion

To be honest, I really want to stick to the nine major genres I mentioned earlier. I'd probably put Pagan and Viking under Folk or Black, depending on the band. (Unless it's Amon Amarth, obviously). To be honest, I have no idea what Suomi metal even is. Whenever I punch those bands into MA, I get gothic, so maybe they'd fall under gothic metal?

Written by [user id=123392] on 14.12.2011 at 22:30

Well done sir. You've got a pretty nice selection of bands that are representative of the genres. Still, I think you could have fit a little more in the progressive metal section, and Kansas is definitely more on the progressive rock side. There's always room for improvement, but it's pretty good. And Yes is great!

Fair enough, I'll put them more in between the two.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 09:11
Technically you should scrap names like Judas Iscariot and Grand Belial's Key, since as far as I know they weren't exactly revolutionary.

Reading the posts before posting is overrated anyways...
But still... Master's Hammer? Or where they included in the "names like.." list?

Written by X-Ray Rod on 14.12.2011 at 23:32
But still... Master's Hammer? Or where they included in the "names like.." list?

I think they're very important for symphonic black metal, as much as Dimmu Borgir to be honest. And their experimental stuff rivaled the importance of Samael and Ulver.