I consider this a rather easy question, but I know a lot of people may think different about it, specially depending on the genre prefered by each. So the question is, for each you, what does a song need to have to be great?

IMO, to be excellent, first of all I think it needs to have a changing sound, I mean, slow parts, fast parts, heavy, low, etc. Also, I think that instead of being something really complex and difficult, as long as it sounds really good (even if it's simple), that's enough for me.

im quite open for different sounds and stuff, but something i need in a song is good lyrics. to me, the lyrics have to have some kind of message, or a story, to which i can listen. sure, i listen to alot of silly lyrics too, i mean, slayer for example hehe... the song "payback" has very very silly lyrics, but i like it anyway. but its still not a song that i could actually consider a "good" song... its just fun to listen to...
i write alot of song lyrics myself, and i always try to either tell a story, or present a message of some kind.

For a power metal song, it needs some killing riffs, a brilliant solo, some soaring vocals at the right parts, rousing singalong choruses, tempo switches and a suitably epic length.

Viking metal needs a brilliant melody, at least one part where the metal stops and the folk instrument plays for a bit, possibly with some chanting...oh yeah, a lot of chanting, suitably aggressive vocals, perhaps mixed with some more epic clean style, and interesting lyrics.

A good prog song needs a lot of changes, complex melodies, every instrument played to perfection (including vocals, the human instrument) and with a suitable complexity, preferably intelligent lyrics, interesting passages and a suitable length for such a masterpiece.

xP

@Achor: I agree with you, I completely forgot when I opened the thread. For me also the lyrics are very important. In fact, a lot of the bands I've gotten into were beacuse I read some of the lyircs first. Probably this is one of the reasons Sonata Arctica, Leaves' Eyes and others are among my favorite bands.

Yep, lyrics are very important also

sometimes people ask me just how much the lyrics mean to me. they ask me if it happens that i hear a good song, but later on read the lyrics, and just stop listening to it. it DOES happen actually, for example "flexing muscles" by entombed. the song itself is quite ok, with nice riffs and stuff, but the lyrics are just a little too silly for my taste...

Well for me, it at least needs some kind of Structure, something to give it some substance, even if it is Epic and seems kinda random. I think that quality Instrumentation/performance comes next, it's gotta be played well. Then I like good solo's, tight playing, duel guitar leads, and varied vocals from Death to power, along with maby some progressive feel.

Well in general a song needs to have at least some originality in any genre of Metal. For power metal, I usually expect a good solo with nice guitar riffs and melodies. Also, there needs to be some double kick drumming. It has to have decent vocals too. At times the vocals have to be quite diverse also, but not necessarily always. Technicality is always a bonus is songs, but not a necessity. Last of all, it has to have good musicianship. I find that one of the key elements in a band.

a good rythm, thats why doom sucks. If the song has a cool charging rythm then most guitar riffs you put around it will sound cool. But it still needs originality, dragonforce have a pretty good rythm in there songs but half there guitar riffs sound identical. But all in all I think it all comes down to composition, you can get away with being a crappy musician if you know how to put a song together just right.

Above anything else, a song needs soul. If the musicians playing the song don't feel it with every fiber of their being, the result will suck. Beyond that, every metal song needs a good riff.

Written by [user id=16136] on 28.11.2006 at 03:48

Above anything else, a song needs soul. If the musicians playing the song don't feel it with every fiber of their being, the result will suck. Beyond that, every metal song needs a good riff.

yep a sorrowful soul or a grim one. There can not be a good metal song without anger, despair and etc.
you can't speak about christians gathering around the fire, you shouldn't...

Energy! Soul! Power! It needs fucking power! Thousands of fucking Watts!

And I know what some of you are thinking about... that acoustic stuff is cool too, that power it's not a must. WRONG! I think the world was better off when people were living fast, loving hard and dying young because of Heavy Metal. Nowadays folks go slash their own wrists and do all kinds of unworthy shit because a certain kind of music, perhaps even a speciffic song, drives them to emphasize suicidal tendencies and other bullshit like that. Fuck that!

The songs I consider great seem to be very different compared to each other and don't seem to have one mutual non-abstract property. But I think they all have some common abstract/opinionated properties. So for me this is a very hard question and I don't think I can answer it very well. I surely know a great song when I hear one (be that once or many times, of course some of them need to be listened to many many times before anything happens).

The most dominating properties would be the soundscape/production and vocals fitting the song in question, catchiness and interesting structure. But there are numerous exceptions to all of those. So instead of trying to squeeze words out of the topic of what makes a great song, I will list things that for me have no significant effect.

Primarily unimportant properties for me (all of these can of course work as bonuses but have no deciding power on the song being good or not):
- lyrical quality (A song can be great with horrible lyrics. A good example of this is Sear's debut album, but I don't think many of you know them.)
- originality (Don't really care if "<insert legend> did this years ago!" Sometimes it can have a slight effect in some "obvious" cases.)
- theoretical rules
- length (A great song can be under 30 seconds or over 20 minutes long.)

ALWAYS unimportant factors for me:
- being true (A made-up, inexistent aspect.)
- genre (A great song is not dependent on genre.)
- difficulty factor (Even though I sometimes admire someone's technical skill, it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the song, although it opens more possibilities for the song to be good.)
- compatibility of lyrics and my own ideologies/thoughts (I don't care if the lyrics praise nazis, satan, gore or whatever... They can still be good lyrics. That's the only thing I see them as, lyrics. It's not like I will start worshipping satan, mutilate babies or become a nazi. For me, to be upset about "disgusting ideologies" within lyrics would be the same as being upset about fantasy lyrics like those of power metal. An example of this would again be Sear's debut. But in this case the lyrics are both incompatible and bad lyrics.)

To be great a song needs to be:

Moving and atmospheric: It needs to vary in chord proggressions and keys, otherwise you have monotonous music. And depending on the sound modified for recording, you can produce a certain type of atmosphere.

Technical: Applying differrent musical techniques like tremelo, vibrato, and arppreggios, can make a song feel alot more cultured. And also applying the palm mutes and rests when needed to give to feeling of dissonance and closure. If you dont end a measure correctly you get the feeling the song is undfinished.

Drumming: Needs to also be moving, and sometimes an offbeat pattern to give the right feeling during a chord proggression. In other words, make the drumming sound differrent but yet suiting at the same time. I hate boring drummers.

Soloing: random soloing and unneeded wankery can kill a song, if the soloing has to be slower to suit the song, it might even sound better. But it really depends on the speed of the song or the buildup that you are constructing.

Lyrics: Is the last ground to perfection IMO, indecipherable lyrics give the most atmosphere, but if you are going to make easily understood lyrics, you should do it intelligently so you dont sound like a gay ass emo kid, or a whining little punk.

well, after downloading the tab for transilvanian hunger by darkthrone, i realised it is the simplest, most primitive song ever. there are only 4 riffs in it, and i would ignore that fact if they had a bit of a feeling, anything in it. and they actually do, although the song's quality is very low...
that's it for technicality...
i want also a structure(not the usual intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-solo-bridge-chorus-outro structure) that kind of song structure makes some songs be only at 40 or 50% the quality they would have had if not for this age-old one. for textbook examples of fast paced metal songs that simply pwn, try judas priest-all guns blazing, rapid fire(live meltdown version), or therion-blood of kingu
i need some really killer riffs, catchy chorus, and the solos which are catchy are the best(sweet child o mine by guns n roses,tornado of souls by megadeth, and black star by yngwie), powerful vocals, and a decent rhythm
as for ballads, i like melancholic and sweet piano parts, that symphonic timpani drumroll, and maybe a violin (heart of steel by manowar is possibly the best ballad i have heard, and coming close is kuolema tekee taiteilijan by nightwish)

Written by Valentin B on 28.11.2006 at 15:55

well, after downloading the tab for transilvanian hunger by darkthrone, i realised it is the simplest, most primitive song ever. there are only 4 riffs in it, and i would ignore that fact if they had a bit of a feeling, anything in it. and they actually do, although the song's quality is very low...
that's it for technicality...

Dude, trve Black Metal is supposed to be primitive, y'know...
I'm not sure I get what you mean by the ending: "i would ignore that fact if they had a bit of a feeling, anything in it. and they actually do, although the song's quality is very low..."

Please explain.

the song's quality is very low because it's a 3 riff(not 4 actually) song that repeat themselves over and over and over and over and over again for about 4 minutes(i only have the guitar pro tab, so i heven't listened to the actual song, but hey, the info i got from it(an update description,showing that the guy who tabbed it is a tab-nerd ) shows that it's the real deal. and frankly, it's crap.really, do you find listening to the same riff for 1 minute, then another 1 minute riff, a "interlude" and then repeat? this is not "beautifully primitive" this is "crap"

Above anything else an excellent song needs to be played with great feeling, to really mean something for the band who is playing it and of course to be special and a bit different from the rest; you know that extra that makes the difference between a good song and a great song.
If it's difficult to play or not doesn't matter to me, as far as it sounds good and true..

Written by KryptoN on 28.11.2006 at 12:56

The songs I consider great seem to be very different compared to each other and don't seem to have one mutual non-abstract property. But I think they all have some common abstract/opinionated properties. So for me this is a very hard question and I don't think I can answer it very well. I surely know a great song when I hear one (be that once or many times, of course some of them need to be listened to many many times before anything happens).

The most dominating properties would be the soundscape/production and vocals fitting the song in question, catchiness and interesting structure. But there are numerous exceptions to all of those. So instead of trying to squeeze words out of the topic of what makes a great song, I will list things that for me have no significant effect.

Primarily unimportant properties for me (all of these can of course work as bonuses but have no deciding power on the song being good or not):
- lyrical quality (A song can be great with horrible lyrics. A good example of this is Sear's debut album, but I don't think many of you know them.)
- originality (Don't really care if "<insert legend> did this years ago!" Sometimes it can have a slight effect in some "obvious" cases.)
- theoretical rules
- length (A great song can be under 30 seconds or over 20 minutes long.)

ALWAYS unimportant factors for me:
- being true (A made-up, inexistent aspect.)
- genre (A great song is not dependent on genre.)
- difficulty factor (Even though I sometimes admire someone's technical skill, it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the song, although it opens more possibilities for the song to be good.)
- compatibility of lyrics and my own ideologies/thoughts (I don't care if the lyrics praise nazis, satan, gore or whatever... They can still be good lyrics. That's the only thing I see them as, lyrics. It's not like I will start worshipping satan, mutilate babies or become a nazi. For me, to be upset about "disgusting ideologies" within lyrics would be the same as being upset about fantasy lyrics like those of power metal. An example of this would again be Sear's debut. But in this case the lyrics are both incompatible and bad lyrics.)

When I think about all that you said there, I'm convinced you hit the nail right on the head.

There are so much that makes a song great. But what do my absolute favourite songs have in common? Well, they are epic, original and often contains immortal, fantastic, great keyboard or guitar riffs. So those 3 ingredients is what makes a song great!

I think that a good song needs a good message to give to a listener. If lyrics don't have something to say to me, I can't enjoy the song 100%. And vocals. For me it's very important how vocalist sings (well....not always sings ) specifical details of the song.

Obviously this only applies to a few types of songs, but for fun, I'll say that an awesome song needs -

1. An explosive, powerful intro (something like 'Painkiller' or 'Heeding the Call' by Hammerfall).
2. An ass-kickin' theme/riff that drives the song along and gives you goosebumps.
3. A masterful, emotional vocalist singing well thought-out, thematically-cool lyrics (about vengeance, power, prophets, visions, honour, stuff like that).
4. A memorable chorus that makes you want to sing along and rock out.
5. An interesting interludey kind of thing that creates a huge amount of tension, building up to...
6. A SCREAMING GUITAR SOLO, BURNING WITH THE FIRE AND DEDICATION OF ITS PLAYER. It should further the feel of the song, while being a showcase for the mind-explodingly virtuosic talent of the band.
7. An outro/ending chorus that combines the original melody, bitchin' guitar fills and Seb Bach-style powerscreams that say "WE ARE POWER PERSONIFIED, YOU ARE LISTENING TO THE QUINTESSENCE OF ELECTRICITY" at the listener, ending the song on a fast, high, loud, fiery note.

God that'd be an incredible song.

Written by Hyvaarin on 03.12.2006 at 12:27

Obviously this only applies to a few types of songs, but for fun, I'll say that an awesome song needs -

1. An explosive, powerful intro (something like 'Painkiller' or 'Heeding the Call' by Hammerfall).
2. An ass-kickin' theme/riff that drives the song along and gives you goosebumps.
3. A masterful, emotional vocalist singing well thought-out, thematically-cool lyrics (about vengeance, power, prophets, visions, honour, stuff like that).
4. A memorable chorus that makes you want to sing along and rock out.
5. An interesting interludey kind of thing that creates a huge amount of tension, building up to...
6. A SCREAMING GUITAR SOLO, BURNING WITH THE FIRE AND DEDICATION OF ITS PLAYER. It should further the feel of the song, while being a showcase for the mind-explodingly virtuosic talent of the band.
7. An outro/ending chorus that combines the original melody, bitchin' guitar fills and Seb Bach-style powerscreams that say "WE ARE POWER PERSONIFIED, YOU ARE LISTENING TO THE QUINTESSENCE OF ELECTRICITY" at the listener, ending the song on a fast, high, loud, fiery note.

God that'd be an incredible song.

Or an ending like Manowar - The Gods Made Havy Metal, I was on the fucking ground when I first that song!!!

I think it needs good combinations and riffs. Good cordination between all the instruments in the songs (whatever they might be). Fitting lyrics with the message the song portraits. And of course a very good solo ( specially a solo that bleeds an emotion or severeal emotions at the same time). I think that the voice in a song is also important, the voice should fit in the music and the feelings you want to get out.

Written by Xaphiris on 03.12.2006 at 14:46

Written by Hyvaarin on 03.12.2006 at 12:27

7. An outro/ending chorus that combines the original melody, bitchin' guitar fills and Seb Bach-style powerscreams that say "WE ARE POWER PERSONIFIED, YOU ARE LISTENING TO THE QUINTESSENCE OF ELECTRICITY" at the listener, ending the song on a fast, high, loud, fiery note.

Or an ending like Manowar - The Gods Made Havy Metal, I was on the fucking ground when I first that song!!!

Haha! The 'Blood of the Kings' ending is really cool like that, too.

1. Speed
2. Melody
3. Guitar Harmonies
4. Chorus chorus chorus
5. A solo of every instrument
6. The Lyrics must be about something positive
7. Double Bass Drum Pedal
8. Folk Instruments

Written by Doc G. on 28.11.2006 at 02:56

nongayity(no easy catchy melody), thats why power(except some bands like BG and Wintersun) sucks.

Fixed.

I think that it is the most important to the song to be looooong. 7-8 minutes at least. Just like Burzum for xample. But dont be Dream Theater and make long songs that are shit.

Written by Metalhead2 on 03.05.2008 at 10:28

Written by Doc G. on 28.11.2006 at 02:56

nongayity(no easy catchy melody), thats why power(except some bands like BG and Wintersun) sucks.

Fixed.

I think that it is the most important to the song to be looooong. 7-8 minutes at least. Just like Burzum for xample. But dont be Dream Theater and make long songs that are shit.

Man I made that post a looooong time ago, and frankly, opinions change, while I still agree Dream Theater are shit, my viewpoint has changed.

So to sum myself up (and more matured point of view) I stand by 80% composition, shitty musicians can make incredible songs, while great musicians can make shitty songs, its all based on who its put together. There are a few nitty gritty details that make up that last 20%, but that can all come down to opinion.

ok i had that opinion about doom metal too when i got into metal.
rofl 2006 xD

Hm, this is a though question, but I think a song in order to be great need to evoke some sort of reaction/emotion, or else it is useless. With that, some shitty songs can actually be good if you're in the right mood. I don't think I can be more specific than that.