I really wish they didn't retread songs that were on the first S&M. There are so many songs on their 90s albums that would have been interesting choices to blend with a symphony.

I'd put No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith, Unleashed In The East, and KISS Alive II up there in terms of influential live albums, but yeah, the "important metal live albums" are a rarefied bunch, and I'd doubt any of them sold as well as S&M. I'm a little curious about the Death Magnetic tracks and, thinking about it, there's still a lot of the first S&M that I've left unplayed, though that's because the concept just doesn't interest me that much. It's very rare that the metal band + orchestra concept yields as much as it promises, and Metallica is not one of those bands that immediately strikes me as a good fit; a lot of bands seem to do it just because it's now a thing that bands do.

Given that there's already one S&M out there and I'm kind of sick of the endless avalanches of live material that Metallica has been putting out, I'll probably make it my business to forget about this as soon as I leave here. Thanks for going into such detail; it makes me very confident in that decision.

Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 29.08.2020 at 08:08

I'd put No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith, Unleashed In The East, and KISS Alive II up there in terms of influential live albums, but yeah, the "important metal live albums" are a rarefied bunch, and I'd doubt any of them sold as well as S&M. I'm a little curious about the Death Magnetic tracks and, thinking about it, there's still a lot of the first S&M that I've left unplayed, though that's because the concept just doesn't interest me that much. It's very rare that the metal band + orchestra concept yields as much as it promises, and Metallica is not one of those bands that immediately strikes me as a good fit; a lot of bands seem to do it just because it's now a thing that bands do.

Given that there's already one S&M out there and I'm kind of sick of the endless avalanches of live material that Metallica has been putting out, I'll probably make it my business to forget about this as soon as I leave here. Thanks for going into such detail; it makes me very confident in that decision.

I'm definitely not an expert on live albums, you're probably right about all of those (although the only one I have any particular awareness of is No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith). I think the Metallica + orchestra thing as it was initially done was quite gimmicky, but I think they also showed a solid level of conviction in trying to pull it off, even though it sounded fairly awkward on their big songs (it was more the second tier tracks that it seemed more synergistic with). However, I certainly wouldn't consider it a high point in the attempted fusion of the styles, and I would say that your decision is very sensible.

I don't know if I'll listen to this, probably a pass from me.

Written by Hyamendacil1450 on 29.08.2020 at 14:45

I listened to a few songs, but as expected, it feels disjointed most of the time. The orchestra playing its own things while Metallica its own thing. The two don't blend together. The fact that the band included some of its worst songs doesn't help either. I especially laughed at "For Whom The Bell Toll". Skip this one guys. You won't miss anything. In fact, skip everything this band has made since 1988 (ok, minus Sad But True). Corpohoetallica is not worth your time, unless you have some ear impairment.

Corpohoetallica? They don't have a contract with a big label anymore, they have plenty of money to create their own.

While their music has not been as interesting and inspired as their 80s work, there are still, for me at least, enjoyable songs on their post '88 albums, well except for St Anger.

Written by Hyamendacil1450 on 29.08.2020 at 17:23

They are still pretty much a corporate band and have been one since 1991. Since 1988 they have made only one good song. The rest was either bluesy garbage, nu-metal inspired drivel, rehashed thrash-lite material and that hipster travesty called Lulu. if everything was up to Hetfield, he would no longer write and record anything. But every now and then the corpohoes need to drag their asses to the studio to release more pointless material just to keep the money flow going. Slayer ditto, but at least they've said they are calling it quits (finally!).

I don't see how they are corprorate when they have their own label, they're independent. So they have their own business.

Pointless material?! Just because you don't like it, it does not mean it's pointless. Sure, I find their 90s and Death Magnetic uneven albums and St Anger is unlistenable, but I was pleasantly surprised by Hardwired... And they have to go on tour, it's how they earn their money, nothing wrong with that, as long as there is a demand for them. I've seen them live long ago, on their Garage Inc tour and I loved it.
Oh well...

I didn't care much for the original S&M and agree with a previously made point about it sounding slightly disjointed. It has been years since I've listened because I fell into that "heard it once; don't need to hear it again" category, but I'm not sure if my mind would be changed with another revisitation... I will have to give this second around at least a fair shot considering Metallica is the band that catapulted me into metal when I was a young kid.

To dismiss the Black Album as "pointless" feels almost criminal and should not be lumped into their post-1991 shitshow of inconsistent and insipid drivel. With the exceptions of Reload and St. Anger, I'm not sure I find anything in their primary discography that I'd label pointless.

Written by [user id=269684] on 29.08.2020 at 20:06

I didn't care much for the original S&M and agree with a previously made point about it sounding slightly disjointed. It has been years since I've listened because I fell into that "heard it once; don't need to hear it again" category, but I'm not sure if my mind would be changed with another revisitation... I will have to give this second around at least a fair shot considering Metallica is the band that catapulted me into metal when I was a young kid.

To dismiss the Black Album as "pointless" feels almost criminal and should not be lumped into their post-1991 shitshow of inconsistent and insipid drivel. With the exceptions of Reload and St. Anger, I'm not sure I find anything in their primary discography that I'd label pointless.

Even ReLoad has a couple of tracks I dig (Fuel, Memory Remains, Fixxxer), even if it's a bloated inconsistent mess as a whole. St Anger was a disaster, and Lulu a trainwreck, but the other guy's being somewhat excessive about their post-80s material.

There's no harm in giving this one a go, but I would be prepared to feel the same as you felt about the first one

Written by musclassia on 29.08.2020 at 20:36

Written by [user id=269684] on 29.08.2020 at 20:06

I didn't care much for the original S&M and agree with a previously made point about it sounding slightly disjointed. It has been years since I've listened because I fell into that "heard it once; don't need to hear it again" category, but I'm not sure if my mind would be changed with another revisitation... I will have to give this second around at least a fair shot considering Metallica is the band that catapulted me into metal when I was a young kid.

To dismiss the Black Album as "pointless" feels almost criminal and should not be lumped into their post-1991 shitshow of inconsistent and insipid drivel. With the exceptions of Reload and St. Anger, I'm not sure I find anything in their primary discography that I'd label pointless.

Even ReLoad has a couple of tracks I dig (Fuel, Memory Remains, Fixxxer), even if it's a bloated inconsistent mess as a whole. St Anger was a disaster, and Lulu a trainwreck, but the other guy's being somewhat excessive about their post-80s material.

There's no harm in giving this one a go, but I would be prepared to feel the same as you felt about the first one

I really, really tried with Reload. Fuel is a fun "1am, at the bar, 10 shots in" jukebox song, The Unforgiven II was I guess passable... but it all really felt like a Load bonus disc that wore out its welcome heavily.

St. Anger was kind of enjoyable as a meme album. It's a fun listen, but not for the right reasons.

Written by Hyamendacil1450 on 29.08.2020 at 19:44

So if you go solo, turning your band into a corporate entity, you are no longer a corpohoe because you left the mainstream music corporate establishment? Uhh...

The material is pointless as it mostly based on either awful tunes or rehashed, inferior riffs from their older days. The 90s albums are awful, particularly the Load and Reload albums. Becoming the Bon Jovi of thrash is not exactly a good idea in terms of musical quality. Hardwired was a total hack, same like Death Magnetic. A feeble attempt to go back to a heavier sound which failed. Simply put, Hetfield no longer recognizes a good riff and melody from a bad one, and Lars is too preoccupied to get more boners whenever Metallica sells a million more records.

Live they still sound good for their age, but at this point, most bands still sound decent live, even among old bands. Slayer sounds decent too live, despite them not releasing a good tune since the early 90s. The point was never how they sound live. It was about how the music they've made after 1988, measures up with their classic phase. And it does not hold a candle. 1 good tune in 32 years is kinda poor for a band that pretty much revolutionized metal music in the 80s.

how is Metallica a corporate entity?
I disagree with some of the things you say here. "Bon Jovi of thrash" made me giggle.
I rate Death magnetic a 6/10. I can't say i like the production, few songs could have been shorter. But the album was a great success, so what do I know.

I enjoyed the last one, but that's me. I'm gonna listen to it a bit tomorrow.

I understand people's disappointment with post AJFA albums, but I do enjoy some of the stuff they did afterwards.
To each their own...

SOOO many songs they could have used for this. Still going to listen to it several times.

Am I the only one who likes St. Anger? Probably yes. I will show myself out.

Written by Hyamendacil1450 on 30.08.2020 at 12:39

How it isn't? It has acted like one for well roughly 30 years, with the pursue of money and fame mostly and with questionable decisions, such as the corporate spearheaded Napster fiasco. Just because they are now independent (mostly on paper, but they are still linked with multinational corporations), that does not mean they are less corporate than they were in the past when they were signed to major labels directly.

Load and Reload is literally Bon Jovi with heavier guitars. The level of sell out and embarrassment on those two records can only be compared with Bon Jovi and the spandex glam prostitutes. Aptly enough, they made a symphonic rendition of The Memory Remains, hands out the worst song in their discography, with that babbling hipster nepotist preppy Marianne Faithful mumbling like an old hag on it.

Death Magnetic is more like a 4/10. Decent production, and some 2-3 decent sections, but other than that, it has no good songs at all. Hetfield can no longer discern between good and bad melodies. Great success it was. In this day and age of fanaticism, you just need to tape a banana on a portrait and label it post-modernist at and the rabble will flock to it, giving it words of praise and making you think that is worth spending tens of thousands of $ on it just because. Metallica can release any dung it wants. People are still gonna buy it simply because THEY released it. Metallica fans sometimes are more fanatical than ISIS suicidal bombers.

wow, I feel like I opened a can of worms or something. Don't you think you're exaggerating a little bit?
I'm gonna quietly walk away...

Written by John_Doe on 30.08.2020 at 12:48

wow, I feel like I opened a can of worms or something. Don't you think you're exaggerating a little bit?
I'm gonna quietly walk away...

This is the consequence of making it big in any area in life -- the more exposure you get, the more people will develop a hatred for you, to balance the adoration. Two opposing extremes while everyone else in the middle is capable of having a rational discussion about such things without resorting to hyperbolic comparisons to terrorist groups, for instance.

Also a word to the wise: tread carefully in this thread, you may get cuts and scrapes from all the edge

Written by Hyamendacil1450 on 30.08.2020 at 12:39

Metallica fans sometimes are more fanatical than ISIS suicidal bombers.

And yet your keyboard frothing has only gone to show how deserving you are of each other. It almost begs asking for you to show everyone on the doll where Metallica touched you if not for your commitment to the shtick. Like we get it, you don't like Bon Jovi 👍

I'm having a hard time discerning whether he hates post-1988 Metallica more as a band or as people.

If you can look at everything they made post-AJFA objectively rather than comparatively, I think there's a sizable handful of material with merit. Just because it's bad for a Metallica album doesn't inherently make it a bad album and I find it egregiously unfair to try and hold everything they create next to their first four albums, which are four of the greatest albums in metal... five, if you include the Black Album. That was the start of their downfall, yes, but to say the only worthy track is Sad But True is Sad And False.

Man, this hypamedicine1450 dude or whatever has almost won Metallica Hater Bingo! All he's gotta do now is mention Mustaine writing all their riffs and Jason being screwed over on Justice and he'll win a prize!

Written by tintinb on 30.08.2020 at 07:53

Am I the only one who likes St. Anger? Probably yes. I will show myself out.

no, at least compared to what they created in the 90s i"d rate it much higher

When you consider the depth of the band's catalogue, the reuse of songs that were on the original album seems like a cop out; add to that none of them better their prior iterations then it makes for a poor listen.

Personally I feel that if the album stood on it's own merits rather than being shielded by the Metallica brand it would have gotten a far worse reception.

Why does this even exist?

Can Metallica ever please anyone? It's a solid album. Good mix between old and new, IMO not as good as the original S&M, but still very good. I feel like Metallica has reached such high that no matter how good their releases are it will always be benched market with their golden era.

It's an unfairly high standard. S&M 2 is one of the best live albums to come out in 2020.

Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 29.08.2020 at 08:08


Given that there's already one S&M out there and I'm kind of sick of the endless avalanches of live material that Metallica has been putting out, I'll probably make it my business to forget about this as soon as I leave here. Thanks for going into such detail; it makes me very confident in that decision.

Are You Serious right now?

I accept not enjoying This Live record (Personally I find it much less entertaining that original S&M) but jumping on "Metallica sellout" bandwagon is just plain clickbait from your side. As far as I'm concerned Metallica didn't release official live albums besides S&Ms which are unique especially the first one what is underlined in the review. Everything is bootlegs you may or may not order if you wish. Even ?Live Shit Binge & Purge". Same as eg. Pearl Jam.

Nobody finds Iron Maiden gold diggers who release two official Live albums & best of every time new original material sees light of the day...🙄

Written by OzzFest on 19.09.2020 at 03:57

Words

I said nothing whatsoever about Metallica "selling out." Nothing about my comment is "clickbait," either. If I had commented with the phrase "7 Ways Metallica Totally Sold Out on This Album (#3 Will Make You Write Unnecessary Comments About Jason Newsted!!)" and then followed it with a link to my personal blog where I detailed all seven of those ways, then yes, that would have been clickbait. I gain nothing from you reading my comment on this website except another headache.

Whether or not you consider Metallica's other live releases "official" is irrelevant, because they have released a smorgasbord of live material for your paid consumption, and the second S&M at the very least is anything but unique, some of the reasons for which you'll find outlined in musclassia's review. Maybe there's a better case to be made for the first one, but nowadays, recording with a symphony is almost a cliché; plenty of bands do it, and Metallica is even less special for having done it a second time. I cannot begin to imagine how Pearl Jam factors into this conversation, unless we're talking about bands that never should have lasted beyond the '90s.

As for the Iron Maiden comparison, first of all, going by our archives, they've had 6 live releases this century compared to Metallica's 22 (counting different formats of the same release as one). That's a pretty big difference right off the bat, and that's just a cursory look at live material. More to the point, Maiden is a metal band. Metallica are rock stars. Perception is key, and there are plenty of people out there who are sick of Metallica's drama but have no personal quarrel with Maiden. That's a conversation for another forum, however.

Written by OzzFest on 19.09.2020 at 03:57

Written by ScreamingSteelUS on 29.08.2020 at 08:08


Given that there's already one S&M out there and I'm kind of sick of the endless avalanches of live material that Metallica has been putting out, I'll probably make it my business to forget about this as soon as I leave here. Thanks for going into such detail; it makes me very confident in that decision.

Are You Serious right now?

I accept not enjoying This Live record (Personally I find it much less entertaining that original S&M) but jumping on "Metallica sellout" bandwagon is just plain clickbait from your side. As far as I'm concerned Metallica didn't release official live albums besides S&Ms which are unique especially the first one what is underlined in the review. Everything is bootlegs you may or may not order if you wish. Even �Live Shit Binge & Purge". Same as eg. Pearl Jam.

Nobody finds Iron Maiden gold diggers who release two official Live albums & best of every time new original material sees light of the day...🙄

It must take a lot of effort to read so much into a comment that isn't there; SSUS casually mentioned that there's a lot of live material available from Metallica, so he doesn't feel a need to listen to more, nothing there about selling out or clickbait (what is he even saying to click on??)

I think the following non-exhaustive list indicates that there have been a lot of Metallica live performances released in the last decade or so:
-2009: Metallica - Francais Pour Une Nuit - Live DVD from Metallica
-2009: Metallica - Orgullo, Pasión Y Gloria - Tres Noches En La Ciudad De México - Live DVD and album from Metallica
-2010: The Big Four: Live From Sofia, Bulgaria - Live DVD/album featuring Metallica
-2012: Metallica - Atlantic City - Live DVD
-2012: Metallica - Quebec Magnetic - Live DVD (the first released on Metallica's own record label)
-2013: Metallica - Through The Never - CD of the live performance that was filmed for the movie
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: San Juan, Puerto Rico - Live album
-2016: Metallica - Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité, Metallica! - Live DVD released as a fundraiser for Bataclan victims
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: Minneapolis, MN - Live album
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: Webster Hall In New York, NY - Live album
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: House Of Vans In London, United Kingdom - Live album
-2017: Metallica - Live Metallica: Seoul, South Korea - January 11, 2017 - Live album
-2017: Metallica - Live Metallica: Shanghai, China - January 15, 2017 - Live album (the above 5 releases are all from the same tour, and are all available for purchase on the band's website)
-2019: Metallica - Helping Hands... Live And Acoustic At The Masonic - Limited edition release for charity purposes
-2019: Metallica - May 3, 2019 Madrid, Spain. Valdebebas - Live album

Yes a couple of them are (or at least initially were) region-specific, but that's a lot of different ways to watch them play Enter Sandman live, the vast majority of which are listed on the band's website, many of them currently in stock, so claiming that what people think are a lot of live Metallica releases are actually just a lot of bootlegs is blatantly untrue. A bootleg is "an audio or video recording of a performance not officially released by the artist or under other legal authority"; these releases are being released and distributed by the band on their official website, so they're clearly not bootlegs. I think the length of the above list makes an innocuous comment such as "I'm kind of sick of the endless avalanches of live material that Metallica has been putting out, I'll probably make it my business to forget about this" entirely justified, and your response misdirected and unnecessary. And no, he didn't mention Iron Maiden, but they are possibly the only metal band that can compete with Metallica on this front.

Written by 4look4rd on 19.09.2020 at 02:22

I feel like Metallica has reached such high that no matter how good their releases are it will always be benched market with their golden era.

It's an unfairly high standard. S&M 2 is one of the best live albums to come out in 2020.

I doubt many people with more than a passing interest in metal have seen Metallica's output in the last 20 years and considered them to have set an unattainbly high standard of quality to be judged by. If you like the album, that's fine, I thought it was okay, but it was hardly a flawless performance that's being unfairly non-praised for not reaching some godlike level. As far as live albums released in 2020 go, S&M 2 is the only one that I've heard, so it's both the best and worst 2020 live album that I've encountered. We have about 70-odd live albums from this year currently in our database - given the stature of bands putting out most of them, S&M 2 is certainly going to be by far the most polished-sounding, but I wouldn't be surprised if the actual performances on at least a dozen of those albums outshone Metallica's on here.

Written by musclassia on 19.09.2020 at 12:06

It must take a lot of effort to read so much into a comment that isn't there; SSUS casually mentioned that there's a lot of live material available from Metallica, so he doesn't feel a need to listen to more, nothing there about selling out or clickbait (what is he even saying to click on??)

I think the following non-exhaustive list indicates that there have been a lot of Metallica live performances released in the last decade or so:
-2009: Metallica - Francais Pour Une Nuit - Live DVD from Metallica
-2009: Metallica - Orgullo, Pasión Y Gloria - Tres Noches En La Ciudad De México - Live DVD and album from Metallica
-2010: The Big Four: Live From Sofia, Bulgaria - Live DVD/album featuring Metallica
-2012: Metallica - Atlantic City - Live DVD
-2012: Metallica - Quebec Magnetic - Live DVD (the first released on Metallica's own record label)
-2013: Metallica - Through The Never - CD of the live performance that was filmed for the movie
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: San Juan, Puerto Rico - Live album
-2016: Metallica - Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité, Metallica! - Live DVD released as a fundraiser for Bataclan victims
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: Minneapolis, MN - Live album
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: Webster Hall In New York, NY - Live album
-2016: Metallica - Live Metallica: House Of Vans In London, United Kingdom - Live album
-2017: Metallica - Live Metallica: Seoul, South Korea - January 11, 2017 - Live album
-2017: Metallica - Live Metallica: Shanghai, China - January 15, 2017 - Live album (the above 5 releases are all from the same tour, and are all available for purchase on the band's website)
-2019: Metallica - Helping Hands... Live And Acoustic At The Masonic - Limited edition release for charity purposes
-2019: Metallica - May 3, 2019 Madrid, Spain. Valdebebas - Live album

Yes a couple of them are (or at least initially were) region-specific, but that's a lot of different ways to watch them play Enter Sandman live, the vast majority of which are listed on the band's website, many of them currently in stock, so claiming that what people think are a lot of live Metallica releases are actually just a lot of bootlegs is blatantly untrue. A bootleg is "an audio or video recording of a performance not officially released by the artist or under other legal authority"; these releases are being released and distributed by the band on their official website, so they're clearly not bootlegs. I think the length of the above list makes an innocuous comment such as "I'm kind of sick of the endless avalanches of live material that Metallica has been putting out, I'll probably make it my business to forget about this" entirely justified, and your response misdirected and unnecessary. And no, he didn't mention Iron Maiden, but they are possibly the only metal band that can compete with Metallica on this front.

The only ones of these that were actual album releases are Francias/Orgullo, Big 4, Quebec Magnetic, and Through the Never (the last one, which was 7 years ago). The rest that you listed are not live albums, they are (for the most part) recordings of live performances (and usually unproduced) that were released independently on Metallica's website. In the early 2000s, Metallica starting doing this with EVERY live performance, making them available for purchase through LiveMetallica.com. It is really meant for diehard fans only (some have only been made available to fan club members) and/or as a memento for attending a show (the attendees would often get a free live recording of the show they attended). But implying that these are "live albums" is simply incorrect. Live albums are produced/mixed, and receive mass international distribution through a record label. Metallica's record label is Blackened Records, and the last live album they distributed internationally was Through the Never.

And the dude comparing Load and Re-Load to Bon Jovi... Hahaha, seriously, what a joke. Everything you're saying is hot air, spoken like a a true consumer of haterade. Napster? Bon Jovi? Death Magnetic? ISIS? Really? You know, just because you don't like or agree with something, doesn't mean you can treat your opinion as fact; it's not. Take me for example: I completely disagree with literally everything you said, and could very easily present a counter argument to every point you made. So what? It's just an interpretation. But mine being different than yours just goes to show you that yours ain't fact.

S&M 2 is awesome by the way.