This was a question that came up last night while sitting around a fire and drinking beer. Of the early Progressive Metal bands, which album was the most influential to the genre?

Now, before we get into it let me state a few things:

We defined "Early Progressive Metal" to be any band that was already established before 1994. That was the year that Dream Theater's Awake came out and the European Progressive Metal scene was beginning. Up until this point it was pretty much an American genre.

Also, it had to be an album from a Progressive Metal band. Some albums like ...And Justice For All, Nothingface and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son had very strong Progressive elements, but are still not considered Progressive Metal. Likewise, albums like 2112, Brain Salad Surgery and Tails of Mystery and Imagination were not considered because they were not full Metal albums.

So we narrowed it down to four albums, each representing the highlight of that bands early career, but we still couldn't decide. Thus, you, the Metalstormers, with your opinions, comments and debates shall help decide.

Please do not pick an album just because you like it better than the others, or you happen to like that band more. Also, it would really be great if you knew all four of these picks. Don't just say "Images and Words 'cause I never heard of King's X before."
Likewise, please explain why you picked the one that you did. Remember, this should turn into more of a debate than people just voting.

As for me, I actually have to go with Awaken The Guardian as the most influential. Yes, as many of you know I have a sick addiction to Images and Words, but I think Awaken The Guardian is more important to the ground work. It was this album that really pushed Mike Portnoy to write the music that would become I&W. It may have also been the first fully developed Progressive Metal album. It seemed that albums either leaned to the Prog side or the Metal side, but not a seamless mash-up. Awaken The Guardian did it, and it did it well.

I voted for Images & Words. Progressive metal had already started and many great albums had came out by then (Energetic Dissassembly, Mekong Delta, those you mentioned and even more) but Images and Words really inspired, by sales, critics opinions, fans, availability, marketing and of course music itself, a lot of people and bands to start moving toward the "progressive side" and spawned the term "heavily Dream Theater inspired".
Not the first, not my favorite band/album, but clearly very influential.

i also voted for images and words because not only it was the album that got them known as a prog band and took them out to the world, but beacuse imo it influenced a lot of bands after it, and also stated what dream theater was. i guess that album did a lot for prog music, and it's influence can still be thanked

"Images and Words" too. It has a consolidated and very strong line-up and for sure was a great influence on later bands. Also it is one of DT's best albums.

I vote operation Mindcrime. The thing is, it was released in 1988, and is considered to be the first real progressive metal album. It layed out the true ground work, so really the other albums could not have had more influence than it did. Basically, I disagree with the previous three statements, I would say four but I know nothing of Awaken the guardian.

Good thread. It's really got me thinking a fair bit. Dream Theater's "Images and Words" seems to be one of the most notable influential progressive albums although I still feel that "Awake" was their more influential album. While "Images and Words" was a very good album, I don't think it was one of the most influential of the genre, particularly when taking into account Dream Theater's entire discography.

For me, it is between "Awaken The Guardian" and "Operation: Mindcrime". Fates Warning's "Awaken The Guardian" was probably one of the best progressive albums of that time in my opinion however I just don't think it was as influential as it should have been. I suppose then, it leaves "Operation: Mindcrime". I'd probably have to say that this is one of the most influential albums, particularly for vocalists. I know many vocalists that have greatly been influenced by Geoff Tate and if you listen to the vocals on this album, it is no surprise why. Taking into account the year it was released, with thrash and speed metal dominating the scene, they managed to create something new and different.

I think that Operation Mindcrime was extremely influential on modern prog metal... So was Images and Words, but Images and words is still to this day the definitve Prog album in which prog metal is defined. I however would never take anything away from Queensryche and Rush who were/are ver tallented and awesome Prog metal bands.

I voted for another album, "Empire" of Queensryche, even i don't listen so mutch to that album but i think it was the one who realy had make defference in Metal scene

Hard choice actually, but I voted Images and Words. It's a seminal release in the progressive metal genre. And I also know so many people that got into the genre through this album.

Written by [user id=24650] on 01.08.2007 at 01:20

I voted for another album, "Empire" of Queensryche, even i don't listen so mutch to that album but i think it was the one who realy had make defference in Metal scene

Why did you pick Empire? Would you mind explaining your reasoning for that?

When I hear people praise "Images and Words", it's because of the musical content and not its influence, whereas it's the opposite with "Operation: Mindcrime", its influence also predates that of "Images and Words", obviously. So, to put these two in the same competition is almost pointless in the sense that "Operation: Mindcrime" was in circulation for a grater period of time prior to "Images and Words" and thus gained more attention. As for the previous 2 albums, they rarely even get any mention among influencing others and I can't think of too many bands that had definite influences from those albums. I'll vote "Operation: Mindcrime" for the sake of it, but keep in mind that I still think this poll is rather skewed, with quite a few people overlooking much.

Written by Charly546 on 30.07.2007 at 22:39

I voted for Images & Words. Progressive metal had already started and many great albums had came out by then (Energetic Dissassembly, Mekong Delta, those you mentioned and even more) but Images and Words really inspired, by sales, critics opinions, fans, availability, marketing and of course music itself, a lot of people and bands to start moving toward the "progressive side" and spawned the term "heavily Dream Theater inspired".
Not the first, not my favorite band/album, but clearly very influential.

I definitley agree with you here. Watchtower was highly influential with their prog. technical thrash. Cynic,Atheist and Death were really inspired by them, and they are very talented and respectable bands.

I vote other its Rush ''Movieng Pictures' I realy love that album good one, rely good, interesting and awsome my fav of Rush ¨
From list dunno 'Gretchen Goes to Nebraska' but I say its DT album or 'Awake The Guardians' but IMO there are a lot of prog metal albums I dont wanna give names because I dont remember I shood look but Im not at home, so

I always considered Voivod's "Angel Rat" to be a very progressive release and I think I'd choose it over all the other ones since Voicod had a knack of including highly innovative musical elements without ever sounding pretentious, overwrought or masturbatory.

As for influence, to me Voivod is a band that was influential to almost every style of metal and not only progressive metal, which is why I think they should be mentioned here. You always hear of bands like Neurosis or Meshuggah stating their love for the band, and its not uncommon to hear elements of their style in all kinds of genres, from Black Metal (Satyricon actually stole a bridge from Angel Rat and used it as a riff on "Rebel Extravaganza") to Industrial Metal.

Images and Words - one heck of a great prog metal album - has really shaped what prog metal is today!

Written by jupitreas on 02.08.2007 at 00:59

I always considered Voivod's "Angel Rat" to be a very progressive release and I think I'd choose it over all the other ones since Voicod had a knack of including highly innovative musical elements without ever sounding pretentious, overwrought or masturbatory.

As for influence, to me Voivod is a band that was influential to almost every style of metal and not only progressive metal, which is why I think they should be mentioned here. You always hear of bands like Neurosis or Meshuggah stating their love for the band, and its not uncommon to hear elements of their style in all kinds of genres, from Black Metal (Satyricon actually stole a bridge from Angel Rat and used it as a riff on "Rebel Extravaganza") to Industrial Metal.

I agree with you on VoiVod, but I would opt for Dimension Hatross instead of Angel Rat as more influential, but that probably also has to do with the fact I love Dimension but don't like Angel rat at all. As for the influences of VoiVod on Satyricon they are very very clear on Rebel like you said, there are a load of riffs on it whcih can also be traced back to Dimension

Written by Bad English on 02.08.2007 at 00:15

I vote other its Rush ''Movieng Pictures' I realy love that album good one, rely good, interesting and awsome my fav of Rush ¨

I agree... that's an awesome album in every way. Although I don't consider it to the be the most influental.

Written by Warman on 18.09.2007 at 12:29

Written by Bad English on 02.08.2007 at 00:15

I vote other its Rush ''Movieng Pictures' I realy love that album good one, rely good, interesting and awsome my fav of Rush ¨

I agree... that's an awesome album in every way. Although I don't consider it to the be the most influental.

But its old album and many of bands was listened Rush

Out of those I'd say Operation: Mindcrime.

I'm saying Awaken the Guardian because Fates Warning was the first band to mesh both metal and prog rock together.

I voted for "Other".

Rush - 2112

If I'd to chose one from the albums in the poll i'd decided for "Operation: Mindcrime"

But to what point these albums are "influential" is a difficult question. They all have influenced a lot of later bands/albums.

i think king crimson's in the court of crimson king is one of the most influential prog albums
also not to mention they were the main influence for my favorite band

Dream theater and rush but i don't know if you guys consider them as metal?

//Operation: Mindcrime because i think that brought the whole idea of a dark concept album into PROGRESSIVE metal. It was so dark and eerie. I know for a fact that Dream Theater was largely influenced by a lot of Queensryches work, especially Mindcrime. Such a great album, one of my favorites of all time, love the concept. pure genius (nothing taken away from Dream Theater by the way. One of my favorite bands. I like them more than Queensryche)//

Images and Words, but barely over operation:mindcrime. This is really for personal preference, i like both bands, but Dream Theater has always had a heavier edge than Queensryche which i like and think has more influence on metal today.

Images and Words I would say is the most "important" album in how it defined the prog metal sound and really started the growth of the genre...but come on, you can hear the Queensryche influence in it. IMO It has to be Operation: Mindcrime for providing the real foundation for the style to grow on: concept albums, esoteric lyrics, more complex song structure and of course, an undeniably metal sound. I would say Mindcrime is heavier too...Images had the sound that I associate more with modern metal, but I attribute that to it being made while producers were trying as hard as possible to NOT sound like they were from the 80s. But the story of Mindcrime is heavier than a lot of thrash material, and the music always resonates with me...Eyes of A Stranger is one of the first songs I think of when I want to listen to something HEAVY, right next to Angel of Death, Caught in A Mosh and Holy Wars, or even Porcupine Tree's The Creator Has A Masterpiece, which I consider the single most sinister song I have ever heard. Pull Me Under grabbed me, but not the way those other songs did when I first heard them. It also has to be said that Operation: Mindcrime II brought the same sound and story, 20 years later, and it still sounds like prog metal, proving that while the sound has evolved, it really hasn't strayed far from the undisputed original.

But to be perfectly honest, Mindcrime does drag in parts, Images is an easy listen the whole way through

Written by [user id=37096] on 13.01.2009 at 02:12

Images and Words I would say is the most "important" album in how it defined the prog metal sound and really started the growth of the genre...but come on, you can hear the Queensryche influence in it. IMO It has to be Operation: Mindcrime for providing the real foundation for the style to grow on: concept albums, esoteric lyrics, more complex song structure and of course, an undeniably metal sound. I would say Mindcrime is heavier too...Images had the sound that I associate more with modern metal, but I attribute that to it being made while producers were trying as hard as possible to NOT sound like they were from the 80s. But the story of Mindcrime is heavier than a lot of thrash material, and the music always resonates with me...Eyes of A Stranger is one of the first songs I think of when I want to listen to something HEAVY, right next to Angel of Death, Caught in A Mosh and Holy Wars, or even Porcupine Tree's The Creator Has A Masterpiece, which I consider the single most sinister song I have ever heard. Pull Me Under grabbed me, but not the way those other songs did when I first heard them. It also has to be said that Operation: Mindcrime II brought the same sound and story, 20 years later, and it still sounds like prog metal, proving that while the sound has evolved, it really hasn't strayed far from the undisputed original.

But to be perfectly honest, Mindcrime does drag in parts, Images is an easy listen the whole way through

That is an interesting look at the albums. Thanks for sharing. Question, did you ever hear about Bruce Dickinson's reaction to Mindcrime?

Written by [user id=37096] on 13.01.2009 at 02:12

...producers were trying as hard as possible to NOT sound like they were from the 80s...

Could you please elaborate on that? It's really interesting what made you draw that conclusion.

OMC all the way.

Two reasons:
1)One of the earliet concept albums in the entire metal genre(somthing that was a new concept in itself in that era).
2)The songwritting was ahead of its time.

But that can be expected....It's Queensryche after all. haha

I think Operation Mindcrime could be considered the most improtant, it came out in 1988 and influenced many bands.