Written by Dane Train on 06.02.2009 at 23:20

Written by Bad English on 22.11.2008 at 13:43

Monomah - Rusian band, hard rock/HM band from 80's and its lyrics are in Russian and werry hard to get that band

Where did you learn about these guys?

My friend has a cassete of those guys, ok not friend but my friend friend has it and I listen those guys was OK, but only once , its werry hard to get in Russia , old band and rear to

Stryper, the singer's voice has no rival

Of all christian metal bands I've heard, there are close to none that even come close to rivaling Trouble. Psalm 9 is just too awesome not to mention.

Theocracy is better than any other Christian metal band. They actually sound like a regular very good band. We all know how Christian Metal bands kinda have this undefinable sound....usually with a bit of mediocrity thrown in the mix? As if they have to strip the music from its shine just so people know its Christian. Well not Theocracy!! They absolutely blew me away, first metal band to make me proud of being Christian.

Wow, Christian Metal? This is something I really have to check out. I've heard of so called "Unblack" Metal bands that more-or-less just play classic BM (a bit softer, though) but with lyrics that praise Christianity. Such are Antestor and Horde. Is Christian Metal just that which I just mentioned or is it a totally different style?

Written by Slayer666 on 10.02.2009 at 18:51

Wow, Christian Metal? This is something I really have to check out. I've heard of so called "Unblack" Metal bands that more-or-less just play classic BM (a bit softer, though) but with lyrics that praise Christianity. Such are Antestor and Horde. Is Christian Metal just that which I just mentioned or is it a totally different style?

If you read the first post, you'll see what we're talking about here:

"The Christian message is an ever-growing theme in Metal. From the early days it was looked at like a fluke, but now some of the biggest bands in Metal have Christian members, like, Iron Maiden, Megadeth and Dream Theater.

But there are those bands which put their faith in Jesus Christ at the forefront of the their music, and those are the bands that I wanted to poll. I picked what I thought were the 8 most popular bands from this faith, but left the "other" option just in case there are other choices. This list just deals with regular Metal bands, and not the Metalcore scene, which is heavily populated with Christian bands. So please don't pick "other" if your choice is a Metalcore band."

Written by [user id=1909] on 08.02.2009 at 16:45

Theocracy is better than any other Christian metal band. They actually sound like a regular very good band. We all know how Christian Metal bands kinda have this undefinable sound....usually with a bit of mediocrity thrown in the mix? As if they have to strip the music from its shine just so people know its Christian. Well not Theocracy!! They absolutely blew me away, first metal band to make me proud of being Christian.

Thanks for recommending this band! I've been listening to them now and they are amazing!
It's great indeed to finnaly hear a band and not get bored after a few listens!

Thanks man!

Has anyone heard Save Me From Myself by Head? This is one killer album. I have been playing it a lot the past few days.

I'll have to go with a more Metalcore band and say August Burns Red (feel free to flame away, haha)

Written by Dest on 12.02.2009 at 19:00

Written by [user id=1909] on 08.02.2009 at 16:45

Theocracy is better than any other Christian metal band. They actually sound like a regular very good band. We all know how Christian Metal bands kinda have this undefinable sound....usually with a bit of mediocrity thrown in the mix? As if they have to strip the music from its shine just so people know its Christian. Well not Theocracy!! They absolutely blew me away, first metal band to make me proud of being Christian.

Thanks for recommending this band! I've been listening to them now and they are amazing!
It's great indeed to finnaly hear a band and not get bored after a few listens!

Thanks man!

No worries dude....as you said they truly are an amazing band and whats even cooler is that they recently got another guitarist so that would make them even more potent if you ask me. Not only a fantastic Christian band with awesome lyrics and music but one of the best power metal bands to emerge in a long long time!

As I lay dying rules they are the only christian band I like.

I got to hang out the Becoming The Archetype last night. They are really great guys. I also came to find out that their drummer, Duck, is the brother-in-law to an old college mate of mine. Small world!

Written by Dane Train on 23.02.2009 at 20:47

I got to hang out the Becoming The Archetype last night. They are really great guys. I also came to find out that their drummer, Duck, is the brother-in-law to an old college mate of mine. Small world!

Sweet, you got to hang out with them?

Anyway, As I Lay Dying is my favorite Christian Metal band. Christian themes with awesome guitar riffs and Tim Lambesis' vocals. What more?

I say Demon Hunter is the best

Call me old fashioned but Christianity and metal do not and should not mix. Let's think of a new name for this "christian metal". How about Kind -of-almost-sort of-brutal-music-that-when-you-ignore-the-insipid-counter-progress-lyrics-and-shitty-guitar-work-you-have-an-almost-metal sound-that-certainly-should-not-,however,-ever-be-mistaken-for-metal. But that might be too scientific. How about we just refrain from using the term christian metal. It's offensive.

Written by wormdrink414 on 18.04.2009 at 09:54

Call me old fashioned but Christianity and metal do not and should not mix. Let's think of a new name for this "christian metal". How about Kind -of-almost-sort of-brutal-music-that-when-you-ignore-the-insipid-counter-progress-lyrics-and-shitty-guitar-work-you-have-an-almost-metal sound-that-certainly-should-not-,however,-ever-be-mistaken-for-metal. But that might be too scientific. How about we just refrain from using the term christian metal. It's offensive.

What is offensive about it? Why should they not mix? Should Christians not be allowed to play Metal?

That was my point exactly. But, of course, I was being a bit over-the-top-with-my-dashed-criticisms-and-do-not-actually-believe-that-christians-should-not-be-able-to-play-metal.

I think the whole idea of Metal music as an outlet for aggression, rebellion against the establishment, and the toppling of the status quo seems to go against the grain with Christianity. Of course, an elitist viewpoint will leave most ideas dead pretty quick, but it still seems a bit ironic to me that the whole thing stuck. Now, I'm all for an alternative interpretation to Christianity, if fact, I think it should be totally re-vamped, but that's just me. The iconoclastic nature of Metal just doesn't fit with Christianity.

Now perhaps we rewind to the original story of Jesus that everyone seems to have forgotten. He was quite the rebel himself, albeit a polite and gentile one. However, there is still to whole "clawing and gnashing of teeth" thing which fits nicely into the more brutal side of Christianity which may align with the aggressive tendancies of Metal, but on the whole, one wouldn't think Christianity and Metal would go together.

Does this mean it shouldn't? Of course not. I am a total proponent of people doing what they can to live their life to the fullest. But these are just some examples of why some people think Metal and Christianity should stay separate. Then again, in it's raw form, the whole Christianity story is quite Metal. I think Zombie Jesus the Baby-Slayer would fit quite well into any Cannibal Corpse album. Cheers.

P.S. As for "Christian Metal," I always enjoyed Incubus quite a bit. http://www.myspace.com/incubusthrash

Written by wormdrink414 on 20.04.2009 at 08:26

That was my point exactly. But, of course, I was being a bit over-the-top-with-my-dashed-criticisms-and-do-not-actually-believe-that-christians-should-not-be-able-to-play-metal.

So what exactly are you opposed to with the concept of Christian Metal? And please don't give us a spam answer but a rather well written, intelligent response.

Written by Clintagräm on 20.04.2009 at 09:51

I think the whole idea of Metal music as an outlet for aggression, rebellion against the establishment, and the toppling of the status quo seems to go against the grain with Christianity.

Or that fits in perfectly with Christianity. What about spiritual warfare, rebelling against materialism and the world, and protesting the evils of the world?

Written by Dane Train on 20.04.2009 at 19:38

Or that fits in perfectly with Christianity. What about spiritual warfare, rebelling against materialism and the world, and protesting the evils of the world?

The Christianity of the 20th and 21st centuries? Spiritual warfare is perpetuated by beliefs like one "true" doctrine is right while all others (and those that believe them) are subject to discrimination, oppression, and eventual destruction and death (don't forget "clawing and gnashing of teeth.") The Western world is largely Christian, and the Western world is largely material. Kind of an oxymoron, but most, if not all, Christians ignore Christ's calling to sell all of your stuff, give to the poor, and become a disciple that serves humankind. And my favorite: evils of the world. Again, the evils perpetuated by many of the Western countries with "God on their side" isn't very helpful.

Perhaps Christianity in it's "unperverted form" (which still doesn't meet the requirements of an ethical and moral belief system) would fit alright with Metal, but what it has become is what really matters, not what was original (which mind you isn't actually original.) So you see, perhaps people's arguments about why Metal and Christianity shouldn't mix are sound. Though I may not agree with them, I can sympathize with them. You can't really "go against the establishment" if you are a member of the establishment, take stock in it, and perpetuate it, can you?

P.S. I accidentally hit Extol for my vote, but meant it for other as I stated I liked Incubus, which I listened to again last night and re-realized how truly awesome they actually are. But other is winning anyways, so cheers to good "Christian" Metal.

Written by Clintagräm on 21.04.2009 at 01:55

Spiritual warfare is perpetuated by beliefs like one "true" doctrine is right while all others (and those that believe them) are subject to discrimination, oppression, and eventual destruction and death (don't forget "clawing and gnashing of teeth.")

I have a strong feeling that you don't know what spiritual warfare is or are at least very confused by the concept. But in all reality I don't expect non-Believers to understand it. While you may not agree that Christianity and Metal mix, I do. It is a difference of opinion, thats all.

I see the aggressiveness and beauty of an album like Storm The Gates of Hell really capturing many of the feelings I have when involved in spiritual warfare. Many of the songs by Living Sacrifice or Tourniquet express the way I feel towards corporations and the materialist world we live in today. I "go against the establishment" all the time so doesn't that fit with the Metal mentality?

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 03:49
I have a strong feeling that you don't know what spiritual warfare is or are at least very confused by the concept. But in all reality I don't expect non-Believers to understand it. While you may not agree that Christianity and Metal mix, I do. It is a difference of opinion, thats all.

I don't think this sort of conclusion is merited - this isn't a difference of opinion, it is a communication failure. It seems clear to me that people talk about Christianity in a broad sense. C.J.W.Wyatt even clarifies this by specifying "the Christianity of the 20th and 21st centuries." When people discuss the compatibility of Christianity and metal, they are talking about Christianity in broad strokes. General principles. It isn't that there is a difference of opinion, it's that there are different Christianities being spoken of. Most (all?) Christians consider themselves to follow "real" or "true" Christianity, they consider themselves to be followers of Jesus. The observer will surely note that there have been differences of opinion between these Christians throughout history (to say the least).

Therefore, I don't think you are doing a service to the discussion by proclaiming that "Christianity and metal are compatible" when what you really seem to mean that "Christianity as Dane Train has come to understand it and metal are compatible." Though common, it seems largely untenable for any individual perspective to hold a monopoly on "true Christianity." The Christian metal phenomenon can be a very interesting and productive area of discussion. But religion and art are very large and often ambiguous topics. We are better off taking a few pieces at a time and seeing if we can fit them together. Opinions can't be dismissed solely because someone doesn't "know" what "true Christianity" or "true metal" is, because on this level of abstract discourse there are no such things. There are metals, and there are Christianities, and there are places where they meet and there are places where such a collaboration could be quite dissonant. Essentializing either one of these concepts and then declaring an impasse doesn't help anyone learn anything.

Written by Clintagräm on 21.04.2009 at 01:55
Perhaps Christianity in it's "unperverted form" (which still doesn't meet the requirements of an ethical and moral belief system) would fit alright with Metal, but what it has become is what really matters, not what was original (which mind you isn't actually original.) So you see, perhaps people's arguments about why Metal and Christianity shouldn't mix are sound.

It isn't even so simple as this. You are correct in that mainstream Christianity as we know it isn't the most logical companion of metal. But there have been so many paths along the way that some are bound to be more compatible than others. I think we all need to remember that very often "Christianity" means very different things to different people, and it is very difficult to say who is "right."

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 03:49

...

Please excuse my ignorance on the subject, I was spilling out my definition of it in the broader sense of "religion vs religion" not "a religion's struggle with its demons." As for a difference of opinion, perhaps you didn't read my post too thorough, but I said of course Metal and Christianity should be allowed to mix. I really hope you'd think better of me. But this isn't the place for the debate. Be well, cheers.

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.04.2009 at 05:33

...

Indeed you are right, well said.

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.04.2009 at 05:33

I don't think this sort of conclusion is merited - this isn't a difference of opinion, it is a communication failure. It seems clear to me that people talk about Christianity in a broad sense. C.J.W.Wyatt even clarifies this by specifying "the Christianity of the 20th and 21st centuries." When people discuss the compatibility of Christianity and metal, they are talking about Christianity in broad strokes. General principles. It isn't that there is a difference of opinion, it's that there are different Christianities being spoken of. Most (all?) Christians consider themselves to follow "real" or "true" Christianity, they consider themselves to be followers of Jesus. The observer will surely note that there have been differences of opinion between these Christians throughout history (to say the least).

Therefore, I don't think you are doing a service to the discussion by proclaiming that "Christianity and metal are compatible" when what you really seem to mean that "Christianity as Dane Train has come to understand it and metal are compatible." Though common, it seems largely untenable for any individual perspective to hold a monopoly on "true Christianity." The Christian metal phenomenon can be a very interesting and productive area of discussion. But religion and art are very large and often ambiguous topics. We are better off taking a few pieces at a time and seeing if we can fit them together. Opinions can't be dismissed solely because someone doesn't "know" what "true Christianity" or "true metal" is, because on this level of abstract discourse there are no such things. There are metals, and there are Christianities, and there are places where they meet and there are places where such a collaboration could be quite dissonant. Essentializing either one of these concepts and then declaring an impasse doesn't help anyone learn anything.

You love bringing up this aspect of how everyone has their own version of Christianity and knows exactly what is "true" and so on. I've got to say that you and I obviously have experienced drastically different experiences, I honestly can't think of any Christians that I know who claim they have a grasp on 100% true Christianity. To claim that one would know exactly everything that is true is just ignorant arrogance. Yes, it is true that Christians disagree about many doctrinal issues, what living like a Christian looks like in the 21 Century, etc. But it is not these outer doctrinal issues that define what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ. There is a reason why Christians all over the world use the Nicene or Apostles Creeds.

"I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting."

That is the base of it. All the other things don't define a Christian. Is it Bapto or Baptizmo? Calvinism vs. Arminianism? Hymns or CCM?



And if people don't think Christians can listen to Metal or play in Metal bands or write Metal songs about their faith or hold a worship service with Metal music then I have two answers:
The Christian answer: turn the other cheek
The Heavy Metal answer: fuck off!

Written by Clintagräm on 21.04.2009 at 06:04

As for a difference of opinion, perhaps you didn't read my post too thorough, but I said of course Metal and Christianity should be allowed to mix. I really hope you'd think better of me. But this isn't the place for the debate. Be well, cheers.

I did read your post, it just seems I did not fully understand what you were saying. Your message was read in a rather mixed fashion.

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 06:08
You love bringing up this aspect of how everyone has their own version of Christianity and knows exactly what is "true" and so on. I've got to say that you and I obviously have experienced drastically different experiences, I honestly can't think of any Christians that I know who claim they have a grasp on 100% true Christianity. To claim that one would know exactly everything that is true is just ignorant arrogance.

You seem to be misinterpreting me, then. I'm not saying Christians all believe they know "exactly everything that is true." Rather, there is no Christian that believes someone who disagrees with them is correct, or has a better position. Some say the differences in doctrine don't matter. For others, a "minor" doctrinal difference could mean the difference between heaven and hell.

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 06:08
Yes, it is true that Christians disagree about many doctrinal issues, what living like a Christian looks like in the 21 Century, etc. But it is not these outer doctrinal issues that define what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ.

Says you, and this is my point. This is what you have decided it takes to be a Christian. But there have been too many debates, from thousands of years ago to modern bible debate internet forums, where one Christian accuses another of heresy, or false teachings, or not being a true Christian.

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 06:08
There is a reason why Christians all over the world use the Nicene or Apostles Creeds.

And there are reasons some don't. The Apostles' creed was formulated in large part because some Christians didn't think other Christians were true Christians! It was a way to legitimize their own Christianity and reject the Christianities of others. And we don't have to go back to the Gnostics for the Nicene:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed#Views_on_the_importance_of_this_creed
The Church of the New Jerusalem, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and similar groups, accept the Christian Scriptures in whole or in part, but reject post-Apostolic statements such as the Nicene Creed. They consider themselves Christians, an identification contested by others who consider acceptance of the Nicene Creed a key part of Christianity.

While not necessarily rejecting the Nicene Creed as erroneous, some evangelical Christians, on the basis of their sola scriptura view, consider it as in no way authoritative, since it is not part of the Bible, and do not recite it in their services.

I believe you're overly simplifying, indeed romanticizing, the entire situation. There have been Christians who don't think the OT laws apply. There have been Christians who think they do. There have been Christians who reject the authority of YHWH altogether.

If we want to discuss whether the beliefs in the Apostles' Creed are compatible with metal, we can certainly do that. But I think we'd all agree we need a little more to work with if we want to discuss the interaction of Christian and metal philosophies.

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.04.2009 at 07:01

But I think we'd all agree we need a little more to work with if we want to discuss the interaction of Christian and metal philosophies.

That's right! So either make a new thread or carry it to the Christianity thread. I've kind of given up on the whole debate for more rewarding activities. As for this thread, lets try and keep the discussion on bands and not ideology. I apologize for my convergence, but the debate is hard to shake.

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.04.2009 at 07:01

I believe you're overly simplifying, indeed romanticizing, the entire situation.

And that is your belief. Others have different beliefs. So how do we know you are correct in that statement. Maybe someone thinks you are over complicating everything, eh? The whole issue could be very simple but you just want to turn a molehill into a mountain. Maybe this is all some sort of quest for you to quench your undying thirst to argue and prove you are right about everything. Who knows? I obviously don't.


Look at the end of the day I really don't care what your opinion is. All you ever do is try and argue with me about every little issue. Frankly, it is just annoying. This thread is about OUR FAVORITE CHRISTIAN METAL BAND, so how about you let us all know what your favorite band is, eh?

Written by Clintagräm on 21.04.2009 at 08:19

...but the debate is hard to shake.

It sure is. Just wait till my essay on Christianity and Metal comes out in a few months.

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 08:19

Written by totaliteraliter on 21.04.2009 at 07:01

I believe you're overly simplifying, indeed romanticizing, the entire situation.

And that is your belief. Others have different beliefs. So how do we know you are correct in that statement. Maybe someone thinks you are over complicating everything, eh? The whole issue could be very simple but you just want to turn a molehill into a mountain. Maybe this is all some sort of quest for you to quench your undying thirst to argue and prove you are right about everything. Who knows? I obviously don't.

Look, this is why I try to bring facts into the discussion whenever possible. So that discussion can be more productive than an exchange of baseless musings. You bring up creeds that "Christians all over the world" use, asserting the unity of Christian belief. My response is to point out that there are plenty of people who consider themselves Christians who would also reject those creeds. If put forth a unifying set of beliefs that some Christians reject, well, this is hardly a matter of opinion, is it?

Written by Dane Train on 21.04.2009 at 08:19
Look at the end of the day I really don't care what your opinion is. All you ever do is try and argue with me about every little issue. Frankly, it is just annoying. This thread is about OUR FAVORITE CHRISTIAN METAL BAND, so how about you let us all know what your favorite band is, eh?

This isn't something that can be reduced to opinion quite so easily. There are individuals. They have different beliefs. This is reality. Furthermore, this is a public discussion forum. Assertions are made, positions can be challenged. Avoiding productive discussion through questioning motives and pleas for 'on-topicness' (which ought to be a moderators concern, in any case I'm not the one who started this particular tangent) isn't the most civil behaviour.

'Annoying' is dismissing a reasoned response as being 'my opinion' as if I just went on an unsubstantiated rant.

Oh, and I believe I already voted for Trouble a few pages ago.