Written by RavenKing on 25.07.2010 at 00:37

Written by [user id=101272] on 23.07.2010 at 02:54

Honestly, I don't know why going commercial is bad for Metal.
Who cares as long as they make their songs good and stick too their roots?

Please tell me how a METAL band can stick to their roots and go commercial at the same time. It's impossible. Going commercial means writing softer, more accessible and mainstream-oriented music. You can't stick to your metal roots and do this at the same time. What you're saying is totally non-sensical.

that is not entirely true. there is an assumption that "going commercial" means selling out and a band altering their style to make more radio-friendly, accessible music.

that is not always the case. trends come and go, and trends are sometimes generated by a swell of grassroots support rather than being picked by radio/labels to be the next big thing.

Iron Maiden was part of that. They were huge. But not only were they huge, they became so while playing their best music. The band peaked in popularity in the mid-80s, before the glam thing really took off. based upon MS user scoring, '84's "Powerslave" is the 4th best metal album of all time and '88's "Seventh Son" is the 6th best. Maiden was so big in the 80s that MTV played their videos and even had little Iron Maiden tidbits entering into and exiting of commercial breaks with little quotes by Bruce on various topics. And it wasn't a case of Maiden needing MTV, but the fledgling network needing to pull in Maiden's audience to gain viewers.

Maiden also had the advantage of rising at a time when Metal was still largely just a blanket term for a whole bunch of bands and without too many subgenres and subgenres with nice invisible walls around them. Sure, there were other subgenres of music starting to evolve, but it was still developing and coalescing... metalheads didn't grow up with rigid distinctions already firmly in place.


Pantera in the 90's is another example, to an extent. at a time when metal was no longer considered cool and all but ignored by exterior sources, "Far Beyond Driven" debuted at #1 in the States. There certainly wasn't much of anything radio-friendly about the style of that album...

So it remains possible that another band could conceivably do something really cool that a lot of 'underground' (used extremely loosely) fans could get behind... something that would appeal to the folks in both the harsher spectrum as well as the more melodic spectrum, and gain such a following that the "above ground" culture would have to take notice. if something will sell or push products, you can bet your ass it will get snapped up.

however i think it highly unlikely that it will happen.

Written by Ellrohir on 13.06.2010 at 22:31

Currently i would say Sabaton has the potential...

after seeing their gig yesterday, i am acknowledging my statement

i two days they totally sold out two really big (i would say up to 2K visitors) club venues in such a small country as Czech republic is (+ Sabaton are here twice or more pro year in last years)...and damn i swear the whole crowd including the balconies jumped with them, shout with them, sang along with them...i was quite in the back of the hall and still the atmosphere here was awesome, almost noone was just standing although i would say yesterday it was "the least metal looking crowd" i have seen so far...but all of them totally excited in seeing Sabaton live and have fun, including my brother who isnt any metalhead at all

the only thing they need now is the next tour in big halls and then the next one on stadiums...and new metal legend is here

Ok, I'm a maiden fan, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. To me, they seem too soft for this modern metal generation of death, thrash, black etc. If another band played the same songs but had a different name, things would be different. People bag the shit out of Black Sabbath, who (supposedly) invented metal, but no one (seems to) bash the shit out maiden. Why?

Well i'd say the most metalcore bands would have the potential but i'm not sure about the respect from the more brutal metallers. im no big fan of metalcore but i think it's the metal genre that connects the most with "mainstream".

but i that power metal bands like stratovarius and sonata arctica also have to potential... and they are quite mainstream in finland at least...and respected..

Written by moe5512 on 09.11.2010 at 17:46

but i that power metal bands like stratovarius and sonata arctica also have to potential... and they are quite mainstream in finland at least...and respected..

Some Flowermetal bands can easily appeal to the mainstream and, in this sense, could become very big, indeed. But it's only one side of the coin.

I don't think it will happen because most of them are on their decline and by softening and getting more and more commercial, the Powermetal genre gains fans in the mainstream spheres, becoming more popular among people who are usually non-metal fans, while in the meantime they loose lots of fans among metalheads, along with the respect of the metal community. That's the other side of the coin.

I believe what they gain from getting more commercial and mainstream, they loose it (at least partially)
from the other side.

Written by RavenKing on 10.11.2010 at 14:27

Written by moe5512 on 09.11.2010 at 17:46

but i that power metal bands like stratovarius and sonata arctica also have to potential... and they are quite mainstream in finland at least...and respected..

Some Flowermetal bands can easily appeal to the mainstream and, in this sense, could become very big, indeed. But it's only one side of the coin.

I don't think it will happen because most of them are on their decline and by softening and getting more and more commercial, the Powermetal genre gains fans in the mainstream spheres, becoming more popular among people who are usually non-metal fans, while in the meantime they loose lots of fans among metalheads, along with the respect of the metal community. That's the other side of the coin.

I believe what they gain from getting more commercial and mainstream, they loose it (at least partially)
from the other side.

I totally agree with you. The biggest bands that I could think of that still could be respected are Mastodon and Opeth, but maybe they play a little too difficult music to hit commercially? In Sweden where I come from In Flames has reached commercially success and are still respected among metalfans, but I understand that they have lost more respect from metalfans in other countries. HammerFall has also reached commercially success, but they haven't got the same respect from metalfans. Maybe power metal is more respected in Finland than in Sweden?

Written by Aristarchos on 26.12.2010 at 16:54

Written by RavenKing on 10.11.2010 at 14:27

Written by moe5512 on 09.11.2010 at 17:46

but i that power metal bands like stratovarius and sonata arctica also have to potential... and they are quite mainstream in finland at least...and respected..

Some Flowermetal bands can easily appeal to the mainstream and, in this sense, could become very big, indeed. But it's only one side of the coin.

I don't think it will happen because most of them are on their decline and by softening and getting more and more commercial, the Powermetal genre gains fans in the mainstream spheres, becoming more popular among people who are usually non-metal fans, while in the meantime they loose lots of fans among metalheads, along with the respect of the metal community. That's the other side of the coin.

I believe what they gain from getting more commercial and mainstream, they loose it (at least partially)
from the other side.

I totally agree with you. The biggest bands that I could think of that still could be respected are Mastodon and Opeth, but maybe they play a little too difficult music to hit commercially? In Sweden where I come from In Flames has reached commercially success and are still respected among metalfans, but I understand that they have lost more respect from metalfans in other countries. HammerFall has also reached commercially success, but they haven't got the same respect from metalfans. Maybe power metal is more respected in Finland than in Sweden?

I can't talk for Finland, as I'm living in America. What I can tell you, having followed metal since the 80s, is Powermetal has never been liked much and respected in America, from what I have seen and heard. Powermetal is not popular at all here. Most likely less than Thrash and Death.
Black Metal is not popular either.

How about Tool? They are already huge around the world with no 1 charts, and both "Lateralus" and "Aenima" have 8.9 here on Metalstorm, so it seems that they are accepted by metalfans, even if I am not a fan of them. Maybe they're a it too much alternative to be counted?

Written by Aristarchos on 26.12.2010 at 18:52

How about Tool? They are already huge around the world with no 1 charts, and both "Lateralus" and "Aenima" have 8.9 here on Metalstorm, so it seems that they are accepted by metalfans, even if I am not a fan of them. Maybe they're a it too much alternative to be counted?

Yeah pretty much. Not saying their is anything wrong with them, they're just not really straightforward metal.

I said the same thing about Rammstein, and I'm a big fan of that band, so yeah.

When I looked through the old post I saw a lot of talk of Opeth and Dream Theater. I think Dream Theater are too old to get any bigger. They have already have their Number of the beast (Images & words) and Seventh Son (Metropolis pt. 2), and they had single hits already in 1992, so perhaps they could already be said to be the closest a "new Maiden" in the more straightforward metal. But I do think Opeth have the potential to become bigger than Dream Theater, although not as big as Maiden. If you look at besteveralbums.com, where people could vote for best albums ever, Opeth have 5 albums on top 1000, ranks as the 169th best band and has a total score exceeding Madonna and 50% more than Abba! So even if they do not sell as many records as many other groups (yet), the ones who buy them love them more than those of many others band.

Many also mention Nightwish, but I don't think, as I said earlier, that they or any other power metal band could be accepted enough among metal fans. Nevermore is a band that is accepted enough by metal fans, but I don't think they ever will reach commercial success. They have been around too long and not become bigger; only their last album have charted on Billboard (no 132; compared to no 23 for Opeth's last, a band who has been around as long as Nevermore, and 6 for Dream Theater's last), even if they charted 13 in Germany, which is not uncommon these days for a metal band.

I am most curious what you think of Mastodon. I am not a fan of them, but I have seen them growing bigger and bigger (last album charted 11 on Billboard). I do not know what group of fans they have or which genre they could be counted as, and are they widely accepted by metal fans?

Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2010 at 14:42

I am most curious what you think of Mastodon. I am not a fan of them, but I have seen them growing bigger and bigger (last album charted 11 on Billboard). I do not know what group of fans they have or which genre they could be counted as, and are they widely accepted by metal fans?

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album. But I do see them get a fair amount of praise and I think they have a fairly devoted fan base.

Written by Xim on 27.12.2010 at 21:45

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album.

That's weird c oming from these moronic elitists there. Usually they will bash the newest album and praise the first two.
Btw imo their first is still by far their best

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 21:57

Written by Xim on 27.12.2010 at 21:45

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album.

That's weird c oming from these moronic elitists there. Usually they will bash the newest album and praise the first two.

Not all of them are elitists. Some of them simply dare to say things that are true but most people don't really want to hear, as they prefer comforting themselves in their delusions. And a certain level of elitism is not bad in itself. It's only when you push it too far (like pretty much everything else in life) that it becomes bad.

It's just like revisionism. If you push it too far, it can become ridiculous but some revisionism is welcome to rectifiy falseties that were carried on for years sometimes.

Written by RavenKing on 27.12.2010 at 22:12

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 21:57

Written by Xim on 27.12.2010 at 21:45

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album.

That's weird c oming from these moronic elitists there. Usually they will bash the newest album and praise the first two.

Not all of them are elitists. Some of them simply dare to say things that are true but most people don't really want to hear, as they prefer comforting themselves in their delusions. And a certain level of elitism is not bad in itself. It's only when you push it too far (like pretty much everything else in life) that it becomes bad.

It's just like revisionism. If you push it too far, it can become ridiculous but some revisionism is welcome to rectifiy falseties that were carried on for years sometimes.

I am quite an elitist myself but most on the MA forums are of ridiculous kind the true keyboard internet warriors, if you know what I mean. There they are being elitist to conform to the people there. There most of them don't have an opinion of their own at all they just ape and parrot what the other people on MA say. Same with 99% of the people on ANUS.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 22:19

Written by RavenKing on 27.12.2010 at 22:12

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 21:57

Written by Xim on 27.12.2010 at 21:45

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album.

That's weird c oming from these moronic elitists there. Usually they will bash the newest album and praise the first two.

Not all of them are elitists. Some of them simply dare to say things that are true but most people don't really want to hear, as they prefer comforting themselves in their delusions. And a certain level of elitism is not bad in itself. It's only when you push it too far (like pretty much everything else in life) that it becomes bad.

It's just like revisionism. If you push it too far, it can become ridiculous but some revisionism is welcome to rectifiy falseties that were carried on for years sometimes.

I am quite an elitist myself but most on the MA forums are of ridiculous kind the true keyboard internet warriors, if you know what I mean. There they are being elitist to conform to the people there. There most of them don't have an opinion of their own at all they just ape and parrot what the other people on MA say. Same with 99% of the people on ANUS.

I was talking only about the reviews there. I never checked the forums.
As for ANUS, I have zero respect for them.

Written by RavenKing on 27.12.2010 at 22:24

I was talking only about the reviews there. I never checked the forums.
As for ANUS, I have zero respect for them.

Well you know what comes out of an ANUS. Only....?

I was talking about the MA forums not the reviews. the reviews are hit or miss.
There are some morons on there but also some who actually put some thought into it.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 22:28

I was talking about the MA forums not the reviews. the reviews are hit or miss.
There are some morons on there but also some who actually put some thought into it.

I agree about the reviews being hit or miss. Sometimes I can recognize my own thoughts in reviews but some of them are so off-the-track I wonder what those who wrote them had in mind. There's a complete lack of logic and coherence at times.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 21:57

Written by Xim on 27.12.2010 at 21:45

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album.

That's weird c oming from these moronic elitists there. Usually they will bash the newest album and praise the first two.
Btw imo their first is still by far their best

Well I think it's because their earlier albums have groove/metalcore influence or whatever, while their latest is a more straight forward prog album. But I really don't know, I just call them prog-sludge, maybe some atmospheric sludge for their latest output.

Written by Xim on 28.12.2010 at 11:04

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.12.2010 at 21:57

Written by Xim on 27.12.2010 at 21:45

They get a lot of bashing at Encyclopaedia Metallum, except for their most recent album.

That's weird c oming from these moronic elitists there. Usually they will bash the newest album and praise the first two.
Btw imo their first is still by far their best

Well I think it's because their earlier albums have groove/metalcore influence or whatever, while their latest is a more straight forward prog album. But I really don't know, I just call them prog-sludge, maybe some atmospheric sludge for their latest output.

Remission could be labeled post hardcore or noisecore imo but not groove/metalcore. Ah well who cares. I still find Remission to be the superior album

Written by Xim on 26.12.2010 at 21:33

Written by Aristarchos on 26.12.2010 at 18:52

How about Tool? They are already huge around the world with no 1 charts, and both "Lateralus" and "Aenima" have 8.9 here on Metalstorm, so it seems that they are accepted by metalfans, even if I am not a fan of them. Maybe they're a bit too much alternative to be counted?

Yeah pretty much. Not saying their is anything wrong with them, they're just not really straightforward metal.

I said the same thing about Rammstein, and I'm a big fan of that band, so yeah.

I just think it is quite interesting that an alternative band receive such high rate on a metal site.

My vote goes for Mastodon.

Written by Aristarchos on 28.12.2010 at 12:07

Written by Xim on 26.12.2010 at 21:33

Written by Aristarchos on 26.12.2010 at 18:52

How about Tool? They are already huge around the world with no 1 charts, and both "Lateralus" and "Aenima" have 8.9 here on Metalstorm, so it seems that they are accepted by metalfans, even if I am not a fan of them. Maybe they're a bit too much alternative to be counted?

Yeah pretty much. Not saying their is anything wrong with them, they're just not really straightforward metal.

I said the same thing about Rammstein, and I'm a big fan of that band, so yeah.

I just think it is quite interesting that an alternative band receive such high rate on a metal site.

Well they are alternative METAL. And whether they're metal or alternative, they make some good music.

There has been a lot of discussion of opeth on here, and that is something that confuses me. Sure there songs are extremely melodic, especially in their later albums, but they still have a lot of key/time signature changes and there songs drag on for upwards of 10 minutes. Yet, I walked into a music shop today and bought Still Life today, and a girl with blue and pink hair, wearing a paramore shirt said: "OMG! Opeth is like the most amazing band ever." Wtf?

Opeth.. Maybe in Europe they're huge but for the most part in America, the only Opeth fans are the "seasoned" metalheads if you will. Pretty unfortunate yeah? I think the closest thing to the next Iron Maiden was Pantera. But who knows, there's some promising young bands starting to grow

Written by CzirjakMan on 31.12.2010 at 04:54

Opeth.. Maybe in Europe they're huge but for the most part in America, the only Opeth fans are the "seasoned" metalheads if you will. Pretty unfortunate yeah? I think the closest thing to the next Iron Maiden was Pantera. But who knows, there's some promising young bands starting to grow

They're huge in Australia. Anyone who likes metal at all, including nu metal or metalcore seems to like them.

Written by CzirjakMan on 31.12.2010 at 04:54

Opeth.. Maybe in Europe they're huge but for the most part in America, the only Opeth fans are the "seasoned" metalheads if you will.

That's the impression I have. Not that I care for Opeth anyway. I only heard a few songs from Opeth in my life and I was bored out of my mind.

Written by CzirjakMan on 31.12.2010 at 04:54

Opeth.. Maybe in Europe they're huge but for the most part in America, the only Opeth fans are the "seasoned" metalheads if you will. Pretty unfortunate yeah? I think the closest thing to the next Iron Maiden was Pantera. But who knows, there's some promising young bands starting to grow

I would say Opeth!
But they have to create a greater base Here, in Latin America!
They fill the profile of South American Metalheads, they just have to tour more around here and consolidate their name as a great Metal band!

And that, is the first step to be an "Iron Maiden" some day!

Written by O Sinistron on 03.01.2011 at 21:36

Written by CzirjakMan on 31.12.2010 at 04:54

Opeth.. Maybe in Europe they're huge but for the most part in America, the only Opeth fans are the "seasoned" metalheads if you will. Pretty unfortunate yeah? I think the closest thing to the next Iron Maiden was Pantera. But who knows, there's some promising young bands starting to grow

I would say Opeth!
But they have to create a greater base Here, in Latin America!
They fill the profile of South American Metalheads, they just have to tour more around here and consolidate their name as a great Metal band!

And that, is the first step to be an "Iron Maiden" some day!

If we're talkin south America, then it would be Angra! My buddy from Brazil says they're huge down there

Written by CzirjakMan on 04.01.2011 at 05:50
If we're talkin south America, then it would be Angra! My buddy from Brazil says they're huge down there

Yes there's a great fanbase of Angra here in South America.

But what I was saying is that the type o of metal Opeth plays, and their style in general has a great commercial and cultural appeal in South American countries. Mainly Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Brasil!
So I believe that if they conquer this countries, they will become a Huge band in SA. Once they're huge in South America they'll grow to the rest of Latin America (Central America, México and Caribe). And then they will be able to conquer USA and Canada.
Once it's done, they'll rule the world.

It's like an WAR (The Game) strategy!

Written by O Sinistron on 04.01.2011 at 06:00

Written by CzirjakMan on 04.01.2011 at 05:50
If we're talkin south America, then it would be Angra! My buddy from Brazil says they're huge down there

Yes there's a great fanbase of Angra here in South America.

But what I was saying is that the type o of metal Opeth plays, and their style in general has a great commercial and cultural appeal in South American countries. Mainly Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Brasil!
So I believe that if they conquer this countries, they will become a Huge band in SA. Once they're huge in South America they'll grow to the rest of Latin America (Central America, México and Caribe). And then they will be able to conquer USA and Canada.
Once it's done, they'll rule the world.

It's like an WAR (The Game) strategy!

Oh for sure man. I think they just need to promote themselves better here I mean you wouldn't believe how many Americans don't even know about them! There's a huge market for them they just need to find it I think