Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 14:56

Thats my opinion! and when i said that i mean the people who are real christians, good christians and real satanists! not a wannabe chrisitan or satanist

then don't say it matter of factly.

you are 24 ffs, how can you have this kind of view on the world?

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 14:56

Written by Sunioj on 14.12.2007 at 14:18

Written by RockeRoy on 13.12.2007 at 16:14

i mean if you take one christian person and one satanist i think the christian would be the nicest person! usualy!

Really? Why is that?

Thats my opinion! and when i said that i mean the people who are real christians, good christians and real satanists! not a wannabe chrisitan or satanist

Hmm. Then I would like to meet the people who you say are real christians then. And to be fare, when dealing with contemporary Laveyist individualist satanism, its hard to draw the line to who is a real satanist and who is not. Actually many of the views that are portrayed in Satanism can be applied to people who don't even consider themselves Satanists. Because... alot of the views are echoed from other philosophies and thinkers throughout the ages. You can read about this thought in the previous pages should you choose to.

To me, real christians is a bit of a oxymoron, each sect proclaims as to why the next sect is false and why their following is the real christianity. I.E. Like some churchs don't care about sexual orientation while some don't .... like more traditional sects.

The fact is, LaVey founded his form of Satanism so people could do what they wanted to do, without being seen as hypocritical. An issue Christianity has yet to overcome.

@RockeRoy: you sound like you know a lot of good Christians and true Satanists as well as a lot of wannabe Christians and Satanist. I find that pretty hard to believe.

Written by Sunioj on 14.12.2007 at 15:19

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 14:56

Written by Sunioj on 14.12.2007 at 14:18

Written by RockeRoy on 13.12.2007 at 16:14

i mean if you take one christian person and one satanist i think the christian would be the nicest person! usualy!

Really? Why is that?

Thats my opinion! and when i said that i mean the people who are real christians, good christians and real satanists! not a wannabe chrisitan or satanist

Hmm. Then I would like to meet the people who you say are real christians then. And to be fare, when dealing with contemporary Laveyist individualist satanism, its hard to draw the line to who is a real satanist and who is not. Actually many of the views that are portrayed in Satanism can be applied to people who don't even consider themselves Satanists. Because... alot of the views are echoed from other philosophies and thinkers throughout the ages. You can read about this thought in the previous pages should you choose to.

To me, real christians is a bit of a oxymoron, each sect proclaims as to why the next sect is false and why their following is the real christianity. I.E. Like some churchs don't care about sexual orientation while some don't .... like more traditional sects.

When i was on rehab some years ago i was on a place where it only worked christians, they diddn't force any christianity upon us but there was a lot of "different" christians who worked there, but a couple of them the farmer who worked there and a women who worked there is maybe the two kindest and moast loving persons i have ever met, and they where christians, but diddn't talk about christianity at all, they where just the kindest persons! , and people like them are the one i call real christians! and i doub't a real satanist would have made the same inpression in me! i live in kongsberg in norway a town close to Notodden where the guys from Emperor and Darkthrone comes from, i don't think they are real satanists, but there lives a couple of real satanists in notodden, and i have meet them several times and i tell you they are not nice persons! but i also think that you should read the rest of what i said and don't hang up in the that sentence we are discussing right now, maybe i should have chosen my words a little differen't, but it's clearly a little difficult to explain my self just the way i wan't to in english! because you diddn't get my points!

Written by Xaphiris on 14.12.2007 at 15:25

The fact is, LaVey founded his form of Satanism so people could do what they wanted to do, without being seen as hypocritical. An issue Christianity has yet to overcome.

@RockeRoy: you sound like you know a lot of good Christians and true Satanists as well as a lot of wannabe Christians and Satanist. I find that pretty hard to believe.

I don't know hundreds but i know a few! I have been on rehab where it just worked christians, and there there was a couple of real christians and a lot of wannabes, i also live in a place witch have the moast of Satanists and wannabe satanists in Norway so what i say is based on the people i know, because it's stupid to talk about people you don't know.. Right? an by the way i have a great view on life!

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 15:32

When i was on rehab some years ago i was on a place where it only worked christians, they diddn't force any christianity upon us but there was a lot of "different" christians who worked there, but a couple of them the farmer who worked there and a women who worked there is maybe the two kindest and moast loving persons i have ever met, and they where christians, but diddn't talk about christianity at all, they where just the kindest persons! , and people like them are the one i call real christians! and i doub't a real satanist would have made the same inpression in me! i live in kongsberg in norway a town close to Notodden where the guys from Emperor and Darkthrone comes from, i don't think they are real satanists, but there lives a couple of real satanists in notodden, and i have meet them several times and i tell you they are not nice persons! but i also think that you should read the rest of what i said and don't hang up in the that sentence we are discussing right now, maybe i should have chosen my words a little differen't, but it's clearly a little difficult to explain my self just the way i wan't to in english! because you diddn't get my points!

I get your points, I also get that this is all based on your personal experiences right? Still, that doesn't hold much weight to what a 'real satanist' is though. That is almost completely relative. But I get that this is just your opinion, so I will leave it at that.

Written by Sunioj on 14.12.2007 at 15:48

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 15:32

When i was on rehab some years ago i was on a place where it only worked christians, they diddn't force any christianity upon us but there was a lot of "different" christians who worked there, but a couple of them the farmer who worked there and a women who worked there is maybe the two kindest and moast loving persons i have ever met, and they where christians, but diddn't talk about christianity at all, they where just the kindest persons! , and people like them are the one i call real christians! and i doub't a real satanist would have made the same inpression in me! i live in kongsberg in norway a town close to Notodden where the guys from Emperor and Darkthrone comes from, i don't think they are real satanists, but there lives a couple of real satanists in notodden, and i have meet them several times and i tell you they are not nice persons! but i also think that you should read the rest of what i said and don't hang up in the that sentence we are discussing right now, maybe i should have chosen my words a little differen't, but it's clearly a little difficult to explain my self just the way i wan't to in english! because you diddn't get my points!

I get your points, I also get that this is all based on your personal experiences right? Still, that doesn't hold much weight to what a 'real satanist' is though. That is almost completely relative. But I get that this is just your opinion, so I will leave it at that.

Jupp

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 15:32

When i was on rehab some years ago i was on a place where it only worked christians, they diddn't force any christianity upon us but there was a lot of "different" christians who worked there, but a couple of them the farmer who worked there and a women who worked there is maybe the two kindest and moast loving persons i have ever met, and they where christians, but diddn't talk about christianity at all, they where just the kindest persons! , and people like them are the one i call real christians! and i doub't a real satanist would have made the same inpression in me! i live in kongsberg in norway a town close to Notodden where the guys from Emperor and Darkthrone comes from, i don't think they are real satanists, but there lives a couple of real satanists in notodden, and i have meet them several times and i tell you they are not nice persons! but i also think that you should read the rest of what i said and don't hang up in the that sentence we are discussing right now, maybe i should have chosen my words a little differen't, but it's clearly a little difficult to explain my self just the way i wan't to in english! because you diddn't get my points!

The only thing that bugs me is that you call nice people good christians. why not just call them what they are? nice people. you yourself said it had nothing to do with their religious & moral views when u said there are satanist who are just as kind.

Written by Xaphiris on 14.12.2007 at 16:13

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 15:32

When i was on rehab some years ago i was on a place where it only worked christians, they diddn't force any christianity upon us but there was a lot of "different" christians who worked there, but a couple of them the farmer who worked there and a women who worked there is maybe the two kindest and moast loving persons i have ever met, and they where christians, but diddn't talk about christianity at all, they where just the kindest persons! , and people like them are the one i call real christians! and i doub't a real satanist would have made the same inpression in me! i live in kongsberg in norway a town close to Notodden where the guys from Emperor and Darkthrone comes from, i don't think they are real satanists, but there lives a couple of real satanists in notodden, and i have meet them several times and i tell you they are not nice persons! but i also think that you should read the rest of what i said and don't hang up in the that sentence we are discussing right now, maybe i should have chosen my words a little differen't, but it's clearly a little difficult to explain my self just the way i wan't to in english! because you diddn't get my points!

The only thing that bugs me is that you call nice people good christians. why not just call them what they are? nice people. you yourself said it had nothing to do with their religious & moral views when u said there are satanist who are just as kind.

You missunderstood me again! i don't say nice people is christians, moast people i know is not christians , and they are all nice people! but i am talking about chrisitans and satanists so...

Written by RockeRoy on 14.12.2007 at 16:26

they where just the kindest persons! , and people like them are the one i call real christians! and i doub't a real satanist would have made the same inpression in me!

no... i think i understood well enough...

Quote:
no... i think i understood well enough...

I am sure you diddn't because if you had you wouldnt have written what you wrote!:)

Quote:

Written by RockeRoy on 15.12.2007 at 14:29

no... i think i understood well enough...

I am sure you diddn't because if you had you wouldnt have written what you wrote!:)

It seems to me that we are mixing the concepts SATANISM and SATAN'S WORSHIPPING here, which are NOT the same thing. I can agree ,that usually the nicer guy from christian and satan worshipper is the christian, but if you claim a christian beeing usually nicer than satanist, I think you should do some study on the subject "Satanism"

I don't know much of these things, but Satanism and Satan's worshipping aren't the same thing.

Written by Guest on 03.01.2008 at 16:20


It seems to me that we are mixing the concepts SATANISM and SATAN'S WORSHIPPING here, which are NOT the same thing. I can agree ,that usually the nicer guy from christian and satan worshipper is the christian, but if you claim a christian beeing usually nicer than satanist, I think you should do some study on the subject "Satanism"

I don't know much of these things, but Satanism and Satan's worshipping aren't the same thing.

So here we are again. I must say it is not that simple... There's an interesting point of view: http://www.azazel.fi/text_satanism_and_satanworship.shtml

I know the text is long but I really hope you read it but there's the most important:


"1) Not all Satanists support the doctrine of the Church of Satan.
2) Not all devil-worshippers are criminals.
3) Satanism and devil-worship are not two completely different things but instead they are nearly identical.

If we accept the first point, new deductions will follow as is consistent:

1a) A Satanist can value both spirituality and bestiality; this title is not in any way a proof for the person being a hedonist or an egoist in the traditional interpretation of the word.
1b) As Church of Satan represents a very populistic kind of Satanism, the most serious and devoted satanists don't always or even very often value the view of Anton LaVey about the Satanic ideology.
1c) For any a serious Satanist, the name Satan does almost never stand as a mere symbolic title but a being that is most real (yet quite rarely the deceiver of men with goat's hooves and horns as presented by the christian church).

Same goes with the second notion:

2a) As criminal Satanism means lots of conflict, intelligent devil-worshippers are most commonly quite law-abiding. This is totally possible because for them Satan isn't an absolutely evil being as in the christian concept, but represents some kind of unique and rejected evolutive force or something of that nature.
2b) Devil-worshipper is not necessarily fanatic or mentally ill any more so than a representative of any other religion. Religiousness in the widest sense of the word is one of the essential functions of the human psyche, and as can be proven, many if not most of the developed pioneers and geniuses of mankind have been theists, not atheists.
2c) Devil-worshipping is not - as Satanism isn't - necessarily just youths follies for gaining attention, but instead it can be a completely serious and rational ideology of an adult human being independent of it's symbolics that are commonly taken as being quite challenging."

Written by Guest on 03.01.2008 at 19:08

Written by Guest on 03.01.2008 at 16:20


It seems to me that we are mixing the concepts SATANISM and SATAN'S WORSHIPPING here, which are NOT the same thing. I can agree ,that usually the nicer guy from christian and satan worshipper is the christian, but if you claim a christian beeing usually nicer than satanist, I think you should do some study on the subject "Satanism"

I don't know much of these things, but Satanism and Satan's worshipping aren't the same thing.

So here we are again. I must say it is not that simple... There's an interesting point of view: http://www.azazel.fi/text_satanism_and_satanworship.shtml

I know the text is long but I really hope you read it but there's the most important:


"1) Not all Satanists support the doctrine of the Church of Satan.
2) Not all devil-worshippers are criminals.
3) Satanism and devil-worship are not two completely different things but instead they are nearly identical.

If we accept the first point, new deductions will follow as is consistent:

1a) A Satanist can value both spirituality and bestiality; this title is not in any way a proof for the person being a hedonist or an egoist in the traditional interpretation of the word.
1b) As Church of Satan represents a very populistic kind of Satanism, the most serious and devoted satanists don't always or even very often value the view of Anton LaVey about the Satanic ideology.
1c) For any a serious Satanist, the name Satan does almost never stand as a mere symbolic title but a being that is most real (yet quite rarely the deceiver of men with goat's hooves and horns as presented by the christian church).

Same goes with the second notion:

2a) As criminal Satanism means lots of conflict, intelligent devil-worshippers are most commonly quite law-abiding. This is totally possible because for them Satan isn't an absolutely evil being as in the christian concept, but represents some kind of unique and rejected evolutive force or something of that nature.
2b) Devil-worshipper is not necessarily fanatic or mentally ill any more so than a representative of any other religion. Religiousness in the widest sense of the word is one of the essential functions of the human psyche, and as can be proven, many if not most of the developed pioneers and geniuses of mankind have been theists, not atheists.
2c) Devil-worshipping is not - as Satanism isn't - necessarily just youths follies for gaining attention, but instead it can be a completely serious and rational ideology of an adult human being independent of it's symbolics that are commonly taken as being quite challenging."

Okay, that straightend many things out. I think it kind of solved this debate. Thank you, Usvakorpi

Yes, no problem. I guess that some ppl have wanted to separate these two from each other because the media has given a very narrow, distorted and negative image of the phenomena. Then they've decided to call the gravestone-felling hooligan teenagers "satan-worshippers".

Written by Guest on 03.01.2008 at 19:38

Yes, no problem. I guess that some ppl have wanted to separate these two from each other because the media has given a very narrow, distorted and negative image of the phenomena. Then they've decided to call the gravestone-felling hooligan teenagers "satan-worshippers".

I fully understand the difference between the two, but here is my question: Why is it called "Satanism" when it is more "Egocentrism"?

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 20:13

I fully understand the difference between the two, but here is my question: Why is it called "Satanism" when it is more "Egocentrism"?

the sole reason imo is the terms shock value to every outsider.

Written by Damnated on 03.01.2008 at 20:58

the sole reason imo is the terms shock value to every outsider.

Interesting concept. But in all honesty, naming a religion after a rebellious Angel who had his ass kicked by a Jewish carpenter doesn't really shock me too much.

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 21:05

Interesting concept. But in all honesty, naming a religion after a rebellious Angel who had his ass kicked by a Jewish carpenter doesn't really shock me too much.

it might sound unbelievable, but it shocks a lot of people. in fact, most of the people i know are shocked by it one way or another. but then again people in these regions have very clouded views about religious things.

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 20:13

Written by Guest on 03.01.2008 at 19:38

Yes, no problem. I guess that some ppl have wanted to separate these two from each other because the media has given a very narrow, distorted and negative image of the phenomena. Then they've decided to call the gravestone-felling hooligan teenagers "satan-worshippers".

I fully understand the difference between the two, but here is my question: Why is it called "Satanism" when it is more "Egocentrism"?

So I assume you've read my previous post. You mean the difference between so-called satan-worshippers and the serious ones... Just say if I understood wrong.

Satanism, as far as I know, is a very egocentrical ideology. But they use the name "satan" symbolically, it's like some opposing force or characters of human nature which for example christianity want's to deny, or then some believe in a higher being called Satan literally. There surely is numerous variants of these... Mere egocentrism doesn't include anything religious, like rituals.

And ofcourse the name also shocks most ppl because satan represents the evil in many religions and most ppl have no idea what satanism is all about.

Written by Guest on 03.01.2008 at 21:38

So I assume you've read my previous post. You mean the difference between so-called satan-worshippers and the serious ones... Just say if I understood wrong.

Satanism, as far as I know, is a very egocentrical ideology. But they use the name "satan" symbolically, it's like some opposing force or characters of human nature which for example christianity want's to deny, or then some believe in a higher being called Satan literally. There surely is numerous variants of these... Mere egocentrism doesn't include anything religious, like rituals.

And ofcourse the name also shocks most ppl because satan represents the evil in many religions and most ppl have no idea what satanism is all about.

Yeah, I was referring to actual Satanism, not the "devil-worship". I am not sure what you meant when you said "opposing force..." Could you please explain this a bit more?

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 21:44


Yeah, I was referring to actual Satanism, not the "devil-worship". I am not sure what you meant when you said "opposing force..." Could you please explain this a bit more?

Ah, that one. Some belive in dualism in a way that there's a good and bad god-like beings or forces. Satan can then represent the good or the evil one which oppose each other, although according to some texts the idea is not so popular amongst the theistic satanists.

It makes it pretty difficult when satanist don't worship satan

Written by Guest on 14.04.2008 at 16:26

It makes it pretty difficult when satanist don't worship satan

Some do, some don't. For some, Satan is an actual theist being, for others it is a symbol that stands for strength, rebelling against the system, power, and whatever else one might find in it. Is it folly? Not if the person finds meaning in it I suppose.

Written by Guest on 14.04.2008 at 16:26

It makes it pretty difficult when satanist don't worship satan

i don't know much about it but i think they call themselves satanists because their moral lessons are the opposit of christiantiy. jesus said love eachother but satanism is very egocentrical

Written by belisarius on 14.04.2008 at 22:08

Written by Guest on 14.04.2008 at 16:26

It makes it pretty difficult when satanist don't worship satan

i don't know much about it but i think they call themselves satanists because their moral lessons are the opposit of christiantiy.

Not christiantiy,outright authority and anti-free thinking movments(like christianitiy).
There should be a luciferian thread...
(forgive me if there is one)

I would be Satanist if I were able to buy a Satanist bible. But my parents won't let me because they are of the many who believe Satan is "evil". I think of Satan as a revolutionary, who decided to rebel against a tyrant, who was trying to make people worship him, disciminate those who don't worship him, and follow an extremely strict and contradicting rulebook. Satanism is like freedom. It's basically like "Do whatever you feel like", instead of "Do what I say". And remember, the gates of Hell has turned down no one. So, really, which religion is more evil?

There's also something I don't get: Do you still get tortured in Hell.... or is there any torturing at all? Or if you want to tell someone to "go to Hell", do you have to tell them to "go to Heaven" instead? Do all non-Satanists have to "Burn In Heaven"?

Written by Haightredy on 17.04.2008 at 04:54

I would be Satanist if I were able to buy a Satanist bible. But my parents won't let me because they are of the many who believe Satan is "evil". I think of Satan as a revolutionary, who decided to rebel against a tyrant, who was trying to make people worship him, disciminate those who don't worship him, and follow an extremely strict and contradicting rulebook. Satanism is like freedom. It's basically like "Do whatever you feel like", instead of "Do what I say". And remember, the gates of Hell has turned down no one. So, really, which religion is more evil?

when I ordered the Satanic Bible at the age of 16, my dad ordered it off of amazon and I told him it was just the title of a novel that has a storyline involving the Satanic Bible. Like some kind of Anne Rice book or something.
My friend has my copy of that now, since I am not a satanist. My mother threw out the Satanic Rituals [follow up to the bible] book because she's sometimes an idiot.
Most of it bashes christianity and the establishment. I wish LaVey was more expansive about the actual ideology, although what is said is clear, concise, and comprehensibly categorised.

My suggestion to you is to perhaps start reading some Nietzsche. There are a lot of parallels. The Antichrist is one of his most known works. They're all easily accessible as e-books - The Satanic Bible may also be, but I'm not positive about that.

Anyway, I think the main conclusion for you seems to be - e-books! It's how I'm doing a lot of my Asatru and Shaman readings at the moment. Not for wont of accessibility, but for fvcking financial reasons! The Satanic Bible is commendably affordable, but that's because it is not researched, incredibly biased, small, limited and unaccompanied by the history and sovereignty that other scriptures/readings possess. I know I'm slagging it off, but I'm just being honest. It still made a great argument and some interesting insights.

Slightly offtopic: These books are fvcking expensive! It's like every one is priced as if it's a Book Of Shadows. A simple Thor's Hammer talisman costs over AU$100! Commercialism and exploitation is rife with any religion or system of beliefs/values. This is obvious but still infuriating.

Written by Haightredy on 17.04.2008 at 04:54

I would be Satanist if I were able to buy a Satanist bible. But my parents won't let me because they are of the many who believe Satan is "evil". I think of Satan as a revolutionary, who decided to rebel against a tyrant, who was trying to make people worship him, disciminate those who don't worship him, and follow an extremely strict and contradicting rulebook. Satanism is like freedom. It's basically like "Do whatever you feel like", instead of "Do what I say". And remember, the gates of Hell has turned down no one. So, really, which religion is more evil?

If you want a set of ideals professing freedom and "Do whatever you feel like" I'd suggest looking into Crowley's Thelema.