Written by RottingDeathHead on 23.10.2013 at 22:38
Then you've obviously never read any death metal lyrics, because I've heard many bands sing about about cutting a few throats.

Gore lyrics are hardly the be all and end all of metal though, are they? Metal had existed for a few years before any metal bands started making those sorts of lyrics.

It's like the idiot on this site a few months ago, who said that sex and drinking alcohol were "metal"... I don't see what those things, or slashing throats for that matter have to do with liking a certain type of music... :\

What a shitty thing to do. Hope they catch the psycho that did it.

Written by [user id=4365] on 23.10.2013 at 21:48

Technically Zep. your opinion on this matter is incorrect as you referred to El Paso as a "town" when by any standard in the US it would be cosidered a city. a "podunk city" would be somewhat of an oxymoron

You've obviously never been to the south-central US.

No its all about perspective, all I am saying is cutting throats is metal. But in no way do I think people should go out & start slashing throats left and right just because they hear lyrics of that nature.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 23.10.2013 at 19:08

Now that's fucking metal.

No that is not metal, because metal fans are supposed to support and help protect each other at shows. Pull people up from the pit when they fall down, help people crowd surf, stage dive, and break up fights as soon as they happen. This is simply disgraceful

Written by RottingDeathHead on 23.10.2013 at 22:38

Then you've obviously never read any death metal lyrics, because I've heard many bands sing about about cutting a few throats.

Are you fucking serious? That's all tongue-in-cheek stuff man, horror-esque lyrics designed for shock and entertainment value. Do you actually think that when Chris Barnes writes about ripping a girl's intestines out of her vagina he's really advocating doing it?

An update can be found on MetalSucks:

http://www.metalsucks.net/2013/10/23/broken-hope-guitarist-jeremy-wagner-comments-violence-show/

Apparently the attack took place NEAR the venue and not AT the venue.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 23.10.2013 at 23:27

Written by Boxcar Willy on 23.10.2013 at 19:08

Now that's fucking metal.

No that is not metal, because metal fans are supposed to support and help protect each other at shows. Pull people up from the pit when they fall down, help people crowd surf, stage dive, and break up fights as soon as they happen. This is simply disgraceful

I completely agree with your thoughts here. The grand majority of metal culture follows these implicit guidelines; I even thought (perhaps naively) that, given Randy Blythe's recent blog post about the fan who died at the Lamb of God show, metalheads would be more aware of their actions at shows and how they affect the individuals around them. But I guess fan safety at shows is, to some extent, a dialogue that needs to be continued, in spite of how rare incidents like these truly are. Attending shows is a recreational endeavour, and no one should be harmed outside of the limits they set for themselves.

EDIT: We'll see if it happened outside of the venue. It would still be the sign of a minor cultural problem plaguing metal, though, in my honest opinion.

Written by Diverge on 24.10.2013 at 00:23

But I guess fan safety at shows is, to some extent, a dialogue that needs to be continued, in spite of how rare incidents like these truly are

It's a bit of a tricky argument though, because how do you really define "fan safety?" People not getting beaten up and bruised from moshing, stagedivers, etc? Well that to me is something that you can't really prevent, because it's almost inevitable, and quite frankly I think that people have very little right to complain about getting hurt from it when it's almost to be expected in the first place. If you don't like it, don't go to a metal show, basically. On the other hand, serious incidents such as this do need to be addressed. Why did the perpetrator have a box cutter on him, anyway? I totally support venues frisking people before they go in for weapons and other suspicious devices that can be used to harm.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.10.2013 at 20:01

dumbest comment, ever, on this site.

This is fucking metalstorm, remember. And, I was of course 100% serious with my comment.

Seriously though, the whole "metal" thing is absolutely stupid. But that's another discussion.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 24.10.2013 at 00:48

Written by Diverge on 24.10.2013 at 00:23

But I guess fan safety at shows is, to some extent, a dialogue that needs to be continued, in spite of how rare incidents like these truly are

It's a bit of a tricky argument though, because how do you really define "fan safety?" People not getting beaten up and bruised from moshing, stagedivers, etc? Well that to me is something that you can't really prevent, because it's almost inevitable, and quite frankly I think that people have very little right to complain about getting hurt from it when it's almost to be expected in the first place. If you don't like it, don't go to a metal show, basically. On the other hand, serious incidents such as this do need to be addressed. Why did the perpetrator have a box cutter on him, anyway? I totally support venues frisking people before they go in for weapons and other suspicious devices that can be used to harm.

Oh yes, I think that any sort of metal show does come associated with a set of risks that are never going to be made negligible. For example, certain parts of the venue (ie. the pit) obviously involve an increased awareness of one's surroundings because there is more danger associated with that position. You need to be ready in case your situation changes rapidly (ie. someone stagedives or is passed along in the air by other fans towards you). I haven't really thought that much about how I would define fan safety, to be honest, and I think it is a very difficult issue to address because of the inherent danger to these shows. That being said, we need to talk about what we can do to address these minor concerns (either as promoters, security people or as fans who value our well-being in the long term). As I've said, these situations are still pretty rare, but Blythe has thoroughly convinced me that this is a conversation that needs to happen. Frisking people is, in addition, a reasonable step in the right direction, in my mind.

Funny some people consider assault with a deadly weapon metal.

semantics aside, El Paso fucking podunk. I've been there. it's not just podunk, it's shady podunk. sure it qualifies as a "city" for you literal nerds who base it just upon raw numbers as to what defines a city, but that doesn't make a "city" a CITY. it's a place to stop, get gas and grab a meal and maybe catch some z's before you continue your road trip to a proper destination.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 23.10.2013 at 19:08

Now that's fucking metal.

Now that's a fucking retarded comment. Even as a joke, it is far from funny.

Written by Angelic Storm on 23.10.2013 at 22:46

Gore lyrics are hardly the be all and end all of metal though, are they? Metal had existed for a few years before any metal bands started making those sorts of lyrics.

It's like the idiot on this site a few months ago, who said that sex and drinking alcohol were "metal"... I don't see what those things, or slashing throats for that matter have to do with liking a certain type of music... :\

You know, that's a reason why I hate gore lyrics: because I'm afraid there are people stupid enough to take them seriously and it can lead to an atrocity. Of course, you will tell me that if someone acts like this because of gore lyrics, then the person was insane from the start and didn't need gore lyrics to act like this. But still, no one will convince me that we need this kind of lyrics in music.

As you mention, Metal existed long before this kind of lyrics appeared and there are many other kinds of lyrics in Metal. My opinion is there are countless other lyrical subjects, aside from gore, much more interesting, intelligent and captivating without loosing our time with braindead gore lyrics.

About sex and alcohol being Metal, it's only a ridiculous stereotype. As if fucking and getting drunk have anything to do with the kind of music you're listening to.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 23.10.2013 at 23:27

metal fans are supposed to support and help protect each other at shows. Pull people up from the pit when they fall down, help people crowd surf, stage dive, and break up fights as soon as they happen.

I remember Tom Araya saying something along those lines on "Decade Of Aggression".

Written by Lord_Regnier on 24.10.2013 at 03:40

Written by Auntie Sahar on 23.10.2013 at 23:27

metal fans are supposed to support and help protect each other at shows. Pull people up from the pit when they fall down, help people crowd surf, stage dive, and break up fights as soon as they happen.

I remember Tom Araya saying something along those lines on "Decade Of Aggression".

"Hey man, if you see someone going down in the pit, help him out, all right? That's what we're here to do. Help each other out." I think it was pre-Mandatory Suicide. Might be wrong.

Best part of the Slayer pit was when I got knocked on my ass, immediately six arms reach down to grab you and hoist you up.

Written by Lord_Regnier on 24.10.2013 at 03:28
You know, that's a reason why I hate gore lyrics: because I'm afraid there are people stupid enough to take them seriously and it can lead to an atrocity. Of course, you will tell me that if someone acts like this because of gore lyrics, then the person was insane from the start and didn't need gore lyrics to act like this. But still, no one will convince me that we need this kind of lyrics in music.

As you mention, Metal existed long before this kind of lyrics appeared and there are many other kinds of lyrics in Metal. My opinion is there are countless other lyrical subjects, aside from gore, much more interesting, intelligent and captivating without loosing our time with braindead gore lyrics.

About sex and alcohol being Metal, it's only a ridiculous stereotype. As if fucking and getting drunk have anything to do with the kind of music you're listening to.

I can see your point, but how far would you want to go, as far as censoring certain lyrical content in metal? Slayer have been accused in the past, more than once, of influencing certain unbalanced people to carry out murderous acts. There was one case, a few years ago, where 3 teenage boys raped and murdered a 15 year old girl in a ritualistic way, which the girl's parents claimed was inspired by Slayer's music. The case against Slayer was thrown out of court, but metal music has a long history of being accused of inspiring murders and suicides. And Slayer's lyrics are nowhere near as extreme as some gore band's lyrics, so where do you draw the line at what's acceptable and what isn't? Some people would love to see Slayer censored and banned for their lyrical content.

The sad fact of the matter, is that extreme genres of metal will always attract a sizeable minority, for whom a lust for violence and obnoxious behaviour is inexplicably entwined with "being metal". Just to use Slayer as an example once again, I love Slayer, but a lot of their fans are total morons, and I'm embarrassed to share my musical tastes with such people, because to non-metal listeners who are ignorant, it's people like that who embody what people who like metal are like. Metal (especially the more extreme genres) will always attract a certain "tough guy" crowd, for whom liking metal is all part and parcel of their vulgar and over the top personalities.

I don't believe violent music, movies, or games can change a perfectly nice, stable, empathetic human being into a psychopath. But there are some people who are pre-disposed to certain unsavoury behaviours, and are already disturbed mentally, and for those sorts of people, violence in media can serve as a "trigger", or give people ideas for how to carry out specific harm, that they may not have had otherwise. But aside from banning depicting all violence in all media, there is no way of preventing this from happening.

I have a friend who doesn't listen to metal who once said he thought I was "too nice" to be into metal, which I think is the perfect embodiment of the attitude that non-metal listeners have towards people who do like metal. I'm not a bad person because I like bands like Slayer and Cannibal Corpse, but lots of people would wrongly assume so just because I listen to such bands. Incidences like this one are horrifying, but I don't think censoring content is the answer... *sighs*

Written by Lord_Regnier on 24.10.2013 at 03:40
I remember Tom Araya saying something along those lines on "Decade Of Aggression".

You know, as soon as I read that post from Apothecary, THAT speech from Tom Araya on "Decade Of Aggression" was what I immediately thought of. haha The thing about Tom, is he always comes across as being the polar opposite personality wise of many of the band's fans. He plays and sings such aggressive and venomous music, but he's always very laid back, sweet, polite, and reserved when addressing the crowd. Sadly, the complete opposite of what most people would imagine, from the content of the band's music/lyrics.

(Post edit, as I started writing my post before Bittercold made his. lol)

@Bittercold: If memory serves me correctly, that speech from Tom is just before the band plays (ironically!) "War Ensemble". I think Tom's speech before "Mandatory Suicide" is about paying tribute to American soldiers fighting and dying in the first Gulf War.

This threads gone too long since i read it this morning but i would like to say two things
small towns can still be ruthless
and, Box car willy's comment was dumb, but no reason to get all upset

Written by Angelic Storm on 24.10.2013 at 05:21

Written by Lord_Regnier on 24.10.2013 at 03:28
You know, that's a reason why I hate gore lyrics: because I'm afraid there are people stupid enough to take them seriously and it can lead to an atrocity. Of course, you will tell me that if someone acts like this because of gore lyrics, then the person was insane from the start and didn't need gore lyrics to act like this. But still, no one will convince me that we need this kind of lyrics in music.

As you mention, Metal existed long before this kind of lyrics appeared and there are many other kinds of lyrics in Metal. My opinion is there are countless other lyrical subjects, aside from gore, much more interesting, intelligent and captivating without loosing our time with braindead gore lyrics.

About sex and alcohol being Metal, it's only a ridiculous stereotype. As if fucking and getting drunk have anything to do with the kind of music you're listening to.

but he's always very laid back, sweet, polite, and reserved when addressing the crowd.

Exactly.

Back in when i was in Slayer gig, I had a visual of Tom Araya as aggressive and angry person in real life which encapsulates in Slayer music clearly. But, when i met him backstage, he was very humble, polite, sweet and soft talking guy. LOL.

I remember when Slayer's Disciple came out it was raining controversies around the world, why? because it has some strong lyrics against the god. Same goes with Cannibal Corpse first 3 records' lyrics too.

Well, people tends to have an impression of reading such gory lyrics day to day that at one point of time they get influenced to ACT on them, which for me is very stupid and careless. You should be mature enough to understand the consequences of implementing it.

Written by RottingDeathHead on 23.10.2013 at 22:38

Then you've obviously never read any death metal lyrics, because I've heard many bands sing about about cutting a few throats.

Just wanted to add that once Alice Copper mentioned in an interview that heavy metal themes is kinda caricature, you know ?

Edit : on the topic, as was my first impression when I read the news : I have never been to shows before only once,but planing to attend deals of them hopefully in future when I move out, but that makes me feel like some of the shows are not safe to attend them without any company :/

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.10.2013 at 21:20

might be the case but calling El Paso a small town is of course ridiculous. For instance the Netherlands doesn't have a single city with more than 1 million people in it. And I am sure that our five biggest cities have a lot more going on there then many a 1 million plus city in the US

Amsterdam 805,000 which is comparable to El Paso Metropolitan
Rotterdam 600,000
The Hague 507,000

are the three biggest

number four is
Utrecht 323,000
five is
Eindhoven 220,000

pfft. Bangalore >> 9 million

The media is going to be all over this again and start the whole "metal creates angry teenagers" bullshit. And I agree with people here about mosh pits, you fall down and someone does pick you up always. People don't watch you fall and kick the shit out of you when you're down, that never happens 99.99% of the time.

Talking about Tom Arya, he is a damn cool dude. The show here in India, he stopped the set coz there was a security guard beating a guy who was leaning on the barricade.

Finally, killing/hurting someone is not metal at all! We might joke about it being metal and shit, but in the real world it ain't!
It's just douchebags who think hurting people is what metal is about.

Also someone needs to put up the Glen Benton drama with Broken Hope. It's sad that these guys are seeing so much drama on this tour.

Written by Spirit Molecule on 24.10.2013 at 14:42

And I agree with people here about mosh pits, you fall down and someone does pick you up always. People don't watch you fall and kick the shit out of you when you're down, that never happens 99.99% of the time.

talkling about falling down and people picking you up. The more extreme the music the more that happens. I have noticed at loads of non extreme metal gigs people falling over and not being helped up even to the extent that people stand on them so as to get a better view of the band (happend at both Fates Warning and Queensryche gigs I was at).

Written by Spirit Molecule on 24.10.2013 at 14:42
The media is going to be all over this again and start the whole "metal creates angry teenagers" bullshit. And I agree with people here about mosh pits, you fall down and someone does pick you up always. People don't watch you fall and kick the shit out of you when you're down, that never happens 99.99% of the time.

I have seen some real douchebags at certain concerts I've been too, who actually do want to hurt people. But I've also had complete strangers offer me help at concerts too. I remember seeing Anthrax in 2005, and I thought I was well out of the way of the mosh pit, when these 3 lunatics came charging at me deliberately like bulls in a china shop, and knocked me over, and my glasses fell off. Immediately afterwards, a guy in front of me (NOT one of the guys who'd actually bowled me over) came over and asked me if I was okay, and helped me search for my glasses, and eventually found them, though they were badly damaged from being trampled on, so I couldn't see the rest of the show. That was an interesting incident, because I saw the worst and the best types of metalheads within moments of each other. The problem is, it's the morons that make the rest of us look bad in the eyes of those who don't understand metal and it's fans...

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 24.10.2013 at 14:50

talkling about falling down and people picking you up. The more extreme the music the more that happens. I have noticed at loads of non extreme metal gigs people falling over and not being helped up even to the extent that people stand on them so as to get a better view of the band (happend at both Fates Warning and Queensryche gigs I was at).

Written by Angelic Storm on 24.10.2013 at 14:57

I have seen some real douchebags at certain concerts I've been too, who actually do want to hurt people. But I've also had complete strangers offer me help at concerts too. I remember seeing Anthrax in 2005, and I thought I was well out of the way of the mosh pit, when these 3 lunatics came charging at me deliberately like bulls in a china shop, and knocked me over, and my glasses fell off. Immediately afterwards, a guy in front of me (NOT one of the guys who'd actually bowled me over) came over and asked me if I was okay, and helped me search for my glasses, and eventually found them, though they were badly damaged from being trampled on, so I couldn't see the rest of the show. That was an interesting incident, because I saw the worst and the best types of metalheads within moments of each other. The problem is, it's the morons that make the rest of us look bad in the eyes of those who don't understand metal and it's fans...

Well that is true, there are always assholes, but most of the time you have people who are just there to have fun and enjoy a bit of moshing. Can't speak about the people into hardcore dancing and those ninja shit, those guys are quite annoying.

I've always been picked up and have always picked up people who have fallen in a mosh. Most of the time you get pulled up and they pat the dust off your back and you're back in the pit again. I haven't been in a pit in ages though, but I've noticed that some of them do sometimes get quite violent. I'm quite safe on stage though, but I do love watching pits break out while we're onstage, it's an awesome feeling for some reason

I remember someone from security staff at a festival who told me that registering people was very necessary, because they discovered someone trying to introduce a "machete" hidden in the back earlier that day.

Written by immortal83 on 24.10.2013 at 16:36

I remember someone from security staff at a festival who told me that registering people was very necessary, because they discovered someone trying to introduce a "machete" hidden in the back earlier that day.

I remember that a guy wanted to smuggle a hatchet on a black metal gig, luckily the security staff stopped him. Also, on a reggae show, someone threw teargas into the club, took the club staff several hours to vent the gas out.

Written by Angelic Storm on 24.10.2013 at 14:57


I have seen some real douchebags at certain concerts I've been too, who actually do want to hurt people. But I've also had complete strangers offer me help at concerts too. I remember seeing Anthrax in 2005, and I thought I was well out of the way of the mosh pit, when these 3 lunatics came charging at me deliberately like bulls in a china shop, and knocked me over, and my glasses fell off. Immediately afterwards, a guy in front of me (NOT one of the guys who'd actually bowled me over) came over and asked me if I was okay, and helped me search for my glasses, and eventually found them, though they were badly damaged from being trampled on, so I couldn't see the rest of the show. That was an interesting incident, because I saw the worst and the best types of metalheads within moments of each other. The problem is, it's the morons that make the rest of us look bad in the eyes of those who don't understand metal and it's fans...

I lost my glasses on an Iron Maiden concert a few years ago. A drunken guy was wawing around and hit me in the face, a few people tried to help me find the glasses, but almost nothing survived, only small pieces. The concert was a blur from then on

Written by BitterCOld on 24.10.2013 at 02:25

Funny some people consider assault with a deadly weapon metal.

semantics aside, El Paso fucking podunk. I've been there. it's not just podunk, it's shady podunk. sure it qualifies as a "city" for you literal nerds who base it just upon raw numbers as to what defines a city, but that doesn't make a "city" a CITY. it's a place to stop, get gas and grab a meal and maybe catch some z's before you continue your road trip to a proper destination.

Apparently the proper definition of a city is a large settlement that has a cathedral in it, not sure how true that is... or where I heard that from.

Written by IronArkadius666 on 24.10.2013 at 19:09

Apparently the proper definition of a city is a large settlement that has a cathedral in it, not sure how true that is... or where I heard that from.

I think it varies per country. Here it has to do with possessing some sort of charter.

btw the wikipage is quite clarifying I would say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City

What a fucking douchebag.

Edit: Oops. No idea why I wrote this here, was intended for the Glen drama.

Quote:
I think it varies per country. Here it has to do with possessing some sort of charter.

btw the wikipage is quite clarifying I would say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying that.

Written by Angelic Storm on 24.10.2013 at 05:21

I can see your point, but how far would you want to go, as far as censoring certain lyrical content in metal? Slayer have been accused in the past, more than once, of influencing certain unbalanced people to carry out murderous acts. There was one case, a few years ago, where 3 teenage boys raped and murdered a 15 year old girl in a ritualistic way, which the girl's parents claimed was inspired by Slayer's music. The case against Slayer was thrown out of court, but metal music has a long history of being accused of inspiring murders and suicides. And Slayer's lyrics are nowhere near as extreme as some gore band's lyrics, so where do you draw the line at what's acceptable and what isn't? Some people would love to see Slayer censored and banned for their lyrical content.

The sad fact of the matter, is that extreme genres of metal will always attract a sizeable minority, for whom a lust for violence and obnoxious behaviour is inexplicably entwined with "being metal". Just to use Slayer as an example once again, I love Slayer, but a lot of their fans are total morons, and I'm embarrassed to share my musical tastes with such people, because to non-metal listeners who are ignorant, it's people like that who embody what people who like metal are like. Metal (especially the more extreme genres) will always attract a certain "tough guy" crowd, for whom liking metal is all part and parcel of their vulgar and over the top personalities.

I don't believe violent music, movies, or games can change a perfectly nice, stable, empathetic human being into a psychopath. But there are some people who are pre-disposed to certain unsavoury behaviours, and are already disturbed mentally, and for those sorts of people, violence in media can serve as a "trigger", or give people ideas for how to carry out specific harm, that they may not have had otherwise. But aside from banning depicting all violence in all media, there is no way of preventing this from happening.

I have a friend who doesn't listen to metal who once said he thought I was "too nice" to be into metal, which I think is the perfect embodiment of the attitude that non-metal listeners have towards people who do like metal. I'm not a bad person because I like bands like Slayer and Cannibal Corpse, but lots of people would wrongly assume so just because I listen to such bands. Incidences like this one are horrifying, but I don't think censoring content is the answer... *sighs*

You know how much I despise gore lyrics and don't see the point. I made my opinion very clear a few times already.
Now, should we ban this kind of lyrics? No, I wouldn't go that far. It is censorship and I stand for freedom of speech.
If you have issues with lyrics, just don't listen to bands who use this kind of lyrics.

In my case, it can be a bit strange, because I have no problem with lots of violent lyrics, while I can't stand gore. Being a fan of extreme Metal genres, I think it would be a real problem for me if I took issues with lyrics too easily. My choice would be way too limited. In the case of gore lyrics, bands that use them usually belong to the Brutal Death genre, so I would not listen to them anyway because I don't like this kind of music. I don't think I miss any music I would otherwise enjoy, only because of lyrical content.

It is impossible to draw a line at what's acceptable or not. It depends on the perception of the person and it varies from an individual to another. For example, I know that lots of people would have issues with lyrics in many bands I'm listening to, even if I don't have.

Slayer have been sued many times in the past and have been accused of pretty much everything a band can be accused of, but it never prevented me to be a huge fan of their material until "Seasons In The Abyss". But I know many people who will frown just at the mention of the name 'Slayer'.

Yes, violence in any kind of media can act as a trigger for mentally insane people. But there is nothing we can do about it. For me, banning violence in all medias is not an option.