Cruachan - Involved In Legal Battle With Debauchery
Here is another legal battle raging on courtesy of Debauchery or more like Cruachan vs.Debauchery. The German death metal band, Debauchery, via their mainman Thomas "The Bloodbeast" Gurrath claimed he has copyright for the two words 'Blood God' in the territory of Germany. And Cruachan's last album is titled Blood For The Blood God, so that was the problem. The matter was eventually settled with Trollzorn but the record label can no longer sell merchandise in Germany with the word 'Blood God', among other things. Naturally, Cruachan are not happy about it.
Cruachan released this statement today over their Facebook page: "Hi, Just to give you all an update on some legal crap that has been happening with the title of our latest album. Just before the end of last year our record label received an email from Thomas Gurrath from the German Death Metal band Debauchery. He told them (and showed them) that he has copyright for the 2 words 'Blood God' in the territory of Germany. He threatened our label and told them he will sue them for releasing our album which is called Blood For The Blood God. (Cruachan never heard of Debauchery before any of this). He demanded all products be taken off shelves and nothing be sold with the words Blood God on it. Our label tried to reason with him because this is completely ridiculous, petty and childish. Cruachan and Debauchery are two completely different bands and the name Blood God is relevant to Irish mythology and history as that is how some people refer to Crom Cruach. We really see no reason why he had this mission to stop our albums being sold. He did not care what our label had to say.
"We have never seen anything like this happen in the metal scene, you would expect it from much bigger bands. We fail to see how Cruachan using the name 'Blood God' will affect anything Debauchery do or affect their sales or whatever. So, as a result, our label have come to an agreement where we can sell off the existing Cruachan merchandise but can produce no more to sell in Germany. (We plan to use the title Blood For Crom Cruach going forward for Germany only). He has also received a financial compensation as well. From now on we cannot make any more merchandise that has 'Blood God' written on it. Cruachan have kept out of all of this and allowed the record label try and fix this issue. As they and Debauchery have reached an agreement we feel it was time to tell our fans what Thomas Gurrath has done to us. Our record label can no longer sell merchandise in Germany with the word 'Blood God', we can still sell outside Germany with the original title but Trollzorn are a German label, this is a real disaster for them. Thank you Thomas Gurrath for doing this to us for no real reason! What has happened to artistic integrity? Or empathy with bands trying to survive in this current musical situation, there should be solidarity between bands - not this disgraceful behaviour!"
Cruachan released this statement today over their Facebook page: "Hi, Just to give you all an update on some legal crap that has been happening with the title of our latest album. Just before the end of last year our record label received an email from Thomas Gurrath from the German Death Metal band Debauchery. He told them (and showed them) that he has copyright for the 2 words 'Blood God' in the territory of Germany. He threatened our label and told them he will sue them for releasing our album which is called Blood For The Blood God. (Cruachan never heard of Debauchery before any of this). He demanded all products be taken off shelves and nothing be sold with the words Blood God on it. Our label tried to reason with him because this is completely ridiculous, petty and childish. Cruachan and Debauchery are two completely different bands and the name Blood God is relevant to Irish mythology and history as that is how some people refer to Crom Cruach. We really see no reason why he had this mission to stop our albums being sold. He did not care what our label had to say.
"We have never seen anything like this happen in the metal scene, you would expect it from much bigger bands. We fail to see how Cruachan using the name 'Blood God' will affect anything Debauchery do or affect their sales or whatever. So, as a result, our label have come to an agreement where we can sell off the existing Cruachan merchandise but can produce no more to sell in Germany. (We plan to use the title Blood For Crom Cruach going forward for Germany only). He has also received a financial compensation as well. From now on we cannot make any more merchandise that has 'Blood God' written on it. Cruachan have kept out of all of this and allowed the record label try and fix this issue. As they and Debauchery have reached an agreement we feel it was time to tell our fans what Thomas Gurrath has done to us. Our record label can no longer sell merchandise in Germany with the word 'Blood God', we can still sell outside Germany with the original title but Trollzorn are a German label, this is a real disaster for them. Thank you Thomas Gurrath for doing this to us for no real reason! What has happened to artistic integrity? Or empathy with bands trying to survive in this current musical situation, there should be solidarity between bands - not this disgraceful behaviour!"
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| Band profile: | Cruachan |
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| TheMAGAmvm Soycrusher Posts: 1086  |
Now this is funny. I wonder how many other bands used this word either in a record, or in a song. The guy from Debauchery is really nuts. This was probably a way to seek some quick unearned cash.
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 62096  |
Idiots I will go to Irish side, that DM band sucks
---- I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens. Stormtroopers of Death - "Speak English or Die"  I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| Yavanna Posts: 616  |
REALLY? The guy has copyright over words? How did he even manage that? :p
---- Carry me to the shoreline Bury me in the sand Walk me across the water And maybe you'll understand
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| Vombatus Potorro Posts: 2394  |
That band wasn't even the first to use the words "Blood God" as a song/album title. And if now he seems to seem more understanding it's cause he will be getting a monetary compensation. Unscrupulous cunt. What's next? Register the word Satan? Also, Debauchery suck. A lot.
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| BloodTears ANA-thema Elite Posts: 11835  |
Debauchery also posted something on their Facebook. Sadly my German is not that good yet  All this seems silly to me.
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| Andreas Posts: 334 |
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| Cynic Metalhead Ambrish Saxena Posts: 7585  |
What an unwanted crap from Debauchery. What are they in for? Publicity? Yes, they not good at all. Such a shit band taking out on Cruachan is fucking pointless.
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| WinterPariah Posts: 18  |
I don't listen to either of the bands involved here but it is, nevertheless, quite sad to read about things like this. I can't even understand how this Thomas fellow even has any legal weight here seeing as Cruachan's album is called "Blood For The Blood God" and not just "Blood God" ... I thought he only had the phrase "blood god" copyrighted? Maybe I am totally missing the point but that seems like quite a stretch in of itself. Furthermore, the bands don't even share any kind of aesthetic similarities - Debauchery looks like some kind of (unfunny) comedy act while Cruachan is focused on their respective culture and heritage which has nothing to do with ugly shirtless men in leather chaps covered in blood pretending they can get laid. Oh well, you'd think an independent musician would try and work on treating other independent artists with decency and respect but, no, it seems vulgar greed has won the battle here.
----  ... no need to feel so afraid, colors last a lifetime and fade to gray ...
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| atrox Posts: 132  |
This is sick, mentally. I'll never listen to any Debauchery track again. Too bad the band is actually good, but there are enough other good bands...
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| Yavanna Posts: 616 |
Written by [user id=111071] on 29.04.2015 at 20:52 Well, that being the case, I would like to have copyright over the names of the days of the week. Also, over the word "beer" (now that would make me rich LOL )
---- Carry me to the shoreline Bury me in the sand Walk me across the water And maybe you'll understand
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| Rulatore Posts: 1108  |
Written by Yavanna on 29.04.2015 at 21:36  That was suicide, he's not getting good things from this
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| mz Posts: 4831  |
Let'd try and register the copyright for every single letter of any language.
---- Giving my ears a rest from music.
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| Promonex Cathemeral Elite Posts: 9720  |
Written by WinterPariah on 29.04.2015 at 21:30 Actually my first thought when hearing about Cruachan's album title was: "Well, let's see, if this won't get them into trouble with Thomas Gurrath." Debauchery's most famous track is called just like that and his hard rock project is called Blood God (whose latest album is called Blood Is My Trademark - self-fulfilling prophecy much?). Even though it shouldn't have been a big deal for Thomas in the first place, especially considering his own experiences with bureaucracy, I think he and Trollzorn settled it nicely in the background, enabling the label to sell all the existing merch and CDs for a one-off license fee. Cruachan weren't involved in the negotiations, yet they decided to make them public and conjure this kind of shitstorm. In my eyes both parties have lost some of my respect. One more so than the other.
---- All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now. - The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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| WinterPariah Posts: 18 |
Written by Promonex on 29.04.2015 at 22:26 I can understand this point of view although I can also see why Cruachan would want to get this situation off of their chest, too. After all, one of their albums is going to be temporarily unavailable in Germany so it seems they are the best ones to inform the fans. I am not a fan of either band so I don't have any leanings for one more than the other (myself, I hadn't even heard of Debauchery until now although I've known of Cruachan since the early 2000s), although I do feel bad that the label had to cough up money over the incident. It seems it would have been nice for Thomas to accept their offer to remove the Cruachan merchandise as a settlement for the deal instead of additional payment as well. I also can't help but to notice that numerous artists had used the title "blood for the blood god" before Debachuery did, including the popular and well-respected thrash band Sabbat from the United Kingdom. It seems rather hypocritical on Thomas' part to act the way he is over a phrase he didn't even coin or copyright.
---- ... no need to feel so afraid, colors last a lifetime and fade to gray ...
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| garmling Account deleted |
garmling
Account deleted Written by Yavanna on 29.04.2015 at 21:36 Don't be greedy  I would like to have rights on words "bear" and "deer", so I can sue you for using both of these in "beer" :D:D
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| SSM Massacred Posts: 236  |
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| Yavanna Posts: 616 |
Written by SSM on 29.04.2015 at 22:56 There has never been such thing as a civilized world 
---- Carry me to the shoreline Bury me in the sand Walk me across the water And maybe you'll understand
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| Promonex Cathemeral Elite Posts: 9720 |
Written by WinterPariah on 29.04.2015 at 22:54 Sure, it's their right to inform the fans. But the way they do it is childish. They could have just said: "well, somebody claimed the rights for the term in Germany, so we've got this situation." Everybody familiar with the German metal scene would have jumped to the correct conclusion and Thomas would have gotten the shitstorm he deserves without Cruachan even having to point at him. Because that's what they did: they publicly shamed the guy and played the "We are more underground than you are, you greedy prick!" card. It's their right to do so, but I still think it's childish.
---- All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now. - The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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| WinterPariah Posts: 18 |
Written by Promonex on 30.04.2015 at 02:57 I can agree with this statement. You're certainly right in that metal listeners would have been able to come to their own conclusions in regards to the situation without Cruachan's lengthy post. Ah well, I am no expert in law but I've had a few law classes, each one dealing with copyrights, and I've never come across a situation where a statement was copyrighted and, when used in a different context, was then enforacble by law - fair use, after all, generally protects against such scenarios. Since Cruachan's CD isn't just called "blood god" I have a hard time fathoming how the copyright law is even applicable here since the context plays a role of some importance, at least in my opinion, and would seemingly fall under fair use protection since each work is discernably different from one another. Maybe such laws are different in Germany?
---- ... no need to feel so afraid, colors last a lifetime and fade to gray ...
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| M C Vice ex-polydactyl Posts: 3413  |
Anyone else thinking the German schools board may have been right about the mental illness thing with Gurrath?
---- "I'm here to nunchuck and not wear helmets. And I'm all out of helmets." "I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples." " 'Tis a lie! Thy backside is whole and ungobbled, thou ungrateful whelp!"
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| Promonex Cathemeral Elite Posts: 9720 |
Written by WinterPariah on 30.04.2015 at 05:54 Actually I thought they aren't that much different from the US laws. After all Portland-based metal band Middian received a cease and desist demand by Milwaukee-based rock band Midian over the use of the name. And after looking up what fair use is all about, selling a phonorecord with a statement in its title that has been copyrighted in the context of music doesn't seem to fall under it. The biggest problem I actually see in this whole affair is that people are too quick to choose sides. Few media write about Gurrath's side of the story because the guy just doesn't seem to have a solid grasp of the English language. So Cruachan are spreading unverifiable information about behind-the-scenes business that is quickly soaked up by everyone, from the most insignificant metalhead to huge media like Vice (who have a history of spreading wrong or ambiguous information themselves), and nobody cares about the other side. Gurrath's calm and level-headed (German) explanations just don't seem be read by a mob that has been agitated by emotionally charged keywords like artistic integrity, freedom of speech and underground solidarity.
---- All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now. - The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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| WinterPariah Posts: 18 |
Written by Promonex on 30.04.2015 at 09:57 Now see, to me, the Midian/Middian case is a justifiable one. The word "midian" was copyrighted and was infringed upon because only one letter was added to the word that didn't ad any language-relevant significance to it (in other words, adding an additional "d" in "midian" doesn't change the meaning of the term legal or otherwise). On the other hand, I see "blood god" copyrighted and then see a statement that reads "blood for the blood god" and I don't see a correlation between the two. Then again, fair use can be tricky and is obviously open to interpretation - this is why, after all, there are courts and judges to settle these matters because oftentimes both sides have at least semi-legitimate claims. You said you feel "blood for the blood god" is a statement that should be covered by the copyright law which I can respect and appreciate. What if an album was called "I kneel before the grand blood god" or "the blood god of eternal mysticism" - would you say those, too, would be punishable by law? I am just curious. I would be interested to read Thomas' statements although I don't know German so, unfortunately, I am unable to. I get the feeling Debauchery are rather popular in Germany but perhaps not elsewhere? There are certainly many instances where a band receives great popularity in one country and no where else (I find this to be especially true in regards to Japan).
---- ... no need to feel so afraid, colors last a lifetime and fade to gray ...
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| WinterPariah Posts: 18 |
It looks like the affair has been settled after all: "UPDATE: After Cruachan made their initial statement and metal fans made their opinions of the matter known by flooding the Debauchery Facebook page with negative comments, it seems that Thomas Gurrath has retracted his demands. According to an update from Cruachan, "Earlier today we made a statement regarding legal issues with our new albums title Blood for the Blood God. Since that statement Keith and Thomas Gurrath have been in discussions pretty much all day. Thomas has agreed to remove the block on our album title in Germany so we can sell our cd's and merch there with the proper album name. Thanks to Thomas for this and thanks for all the support we have received. We now ask that this is forgotten and no more negative comments are left regarding Debauchery, I feel Thomas made an error in judgement and has fixed it and for that we say thanks." The aforementioned quoted information was pulled from the Vice article that Promonex was kind enough to link me to. I actually don't care much for the publication (it's far too "hip" for my tastes, I guess) but I'm glad to see that the matter has been settled in the favor of Cruachan. Everyone does make poor decisions, after all, and shouldn't be eternally vilified for them.
---- ... no need to feel so afraid, colors last a lifetime and fade to gray ...
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| SSM Massacred Posts: 236 |
Written by Yavanna on 29.04.2015 at 23:12 Civilized, as they call it. 
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| BitterCOld The Ancient One Admin Posts: 15290  |
Have no problem with Cruachan exposing twat behavior from Debauchery. none at all. it's two metal bands, definite veins, different genres, just tryin to make a living. unlikely anyone would confuse the two. don't terribly care for Cruachan, hadn't heard of Debauchery, but after this, i won't bother to check them out.
---- get the fuck off my lawn. Beer Bug Virus Spotify Playlist crafted by Nikarg and I. Feel free to tune in and add some pertinent metal tunes!
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| Cynic Metalhead Ambrish Saxena Posts: 7585 |
Next up, another random band among its contemporaries might be suing Cruachan over 2004 release("Pagan"). It's because Cruachan exploded with latest album "BFTBG" and everyone surrounding wanna suck Cruachan for dough. I really don't fucking understand why Debauchery sued the artist on the first place? If they clesrly running of money to run the corporation, they would have fucking crowdfunded it and made a survival. Just because it was in terrority so they decided to be sucking bee and spoil in metal news. Fucking idiots.
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