really looking forward for this album

Well, damn!
Expectations are seriously high now.

Not bad, but then again I listened this and thought is this really Timo Kotipelto who sings?

Genericfest.. This could be like an Amaranthe song.. I really don't understand why this band exists after Tolkki left. The sound is completely different. Kupiainen is not a good songwritter and the rest of the band should just retire.

Written by aeonnumb on 04.07.2022 at 17:26

Genericfest.. This could be like an Amaranthe song.. I really don't understand why this band exists after Tolkki left. The sound is completely different. Kupiainen is not a good songwritter and the rest of the band should just retire.

Well, if you say so they should really do it. I mean, why would they look at the very high ratings they've been getting for the past four records (just check metal-archives.com or... you know, metalstorm.net)?
And the way you talk about Tolkki one would think he did masterpiece after masterpiece after leaving Stratovarius. Hell, both Elements and the S\T Stratovarius have worse scores than any of the latest four albums.

Keep in mind that I'm only using the scores as a means of evaluating both eras and for pragmatism sake. I'm of course excluding personal feelings because they mean 0 when the general consensus can easily be measured.

Written by aeonnumb on 04.07.2022 at 17:26

Genericfest.. This could be like an Amaranthe song.. I really don't understand why this band exists after Tolkki left. The sound is completely different. Kupiainen is not a good songwritter and the rest of the band should just retire.

Agree with you on this track specifically... but aside from that, I actually enjoy their newer albums more than their older ones. "Nemesis" being their greatest album IMO.

Written by RaphaelThorne on 04.07.2022 at 20:33

Written by aeonnumb on 04.07.2022 at 17:26

Genericfest.. This could be like an Amaranthe song.. I really don't understand why this band exists after Tolkki left. The sound is completely different. Kupiainen is not a good songwritter and the rest of the band should just retire.

Well, if you say so they should really do it. I mean, why would they look at the very high ratings they've been getting for the past four records (just check metal-archives.com or... you know, metalstorm.net)?
And the way you talk about Tolkki one would think he did masterpiece after masterpiece after leaving Stratovarius. Hell, both Elements and the S\T Stratovarius have worse scores than any of the latest four albums.

Keep in mind that I'm only using the scores as a means of evaluating both eras and for pragmatism sake. I'm of course excluding personal feelings because they mean 0 when the general consensus can easily be measured.

You obviously know nothing about me..Also please do not put words in my mouth. Stratovarius have been nowhere near their old glory, in both sales and crowds in their lives (i ve been seeing them live since the mid 90s).
Scores in a site from about 10 people per album, you cannot really call it a representative sample.
If you ask me, the last good album Tolkki did with Strato was Infinite. Elements was meh and the self titled is awful. But still i prefer the elements albums than any of the Kupiainen ones. Damn the Nemesis opener he wrote has the most overplayed 4 chords progression in music ever, which is criminal..

Written by aeonnumb on 06.07.2022 at 21:21

You obviously know nothing about me..Also please do not put words in my mouth. Stratovarius have been nowhere near their old glory, in both sales and crowds in their lives (i ve been seeing them live since the mid 90s).
Scores in a site from about 10 people per album, you cannot really call it a representative sample.
If you ask me, the last good album Tolkki did with Strato was Infinite. Elements was meh and the self titled is awful. But still i prefer the elements albums than any of the Kupiainen ones. Damn the Nemesis opener he wrote has the most overplayed 4 chords progression in music ever, which is criminal..

"I really don't understand why this band exists after Tolkki left"
Not putting words in your mouth, you said it.

And are you using the music industry as your means of comparison?! Sales figures? Even Britney Spears' sales figures nose-dived since the '90s; that's an industry issue, not a Stratovarius issue. As for the crowds in their live shows, again, it cannot be compared. Not only because the numbers dropped pretty much everywhere and, more importantly, because back then there where only a handful of bands playing power metal... now there's hundreds. The competition grew exponentially and that divides the crowds.

Are they near their former glory? No, they are not, you're right on that. But they didn't lose quality. Their lowest point was with Tolkki and they are better off without him, I have little doubts about it.

Now, you say 10 people in a site is not a representative sample, well, you're wrong. Those 10 people tell you that 8 out of 10 really like those records. If you grab those numbers and match it with the scores given by the press and you can actually measure the official ratings and the peoples ratings... that's literally how it works. Now, do I agree that it's a small sample? of course, but it's far from useless and, in this type of cases, it works, mainly because we're talking about a big act and everyone has something to say.

As for the 4 chords thing, that's just unimportant. Who cares which chords are used if the song sounds good? Are you saying those 4 chords should not be used ever again because they're in the most used progression in history? Should an artist impose limits to his\hers own vision just because of some arbitrary notion of what should or should not be acceptable? It's amazing how even the chord progressions are being the target of judgement nowadays.

The bottom line is, in the end it's all about taste. You either like it or you don't. Whether the band should continue or not, should be more progressive or more power, should they change the composer or not, that's completely up to them. Your either remain a fan or not. Whichever path you choose is fine, as well as it is also fine if the band finds new people that enjoys their music, which they clearly did just by looking at the numbers.

Cheers

Written by RaphaelThorne on 07.07.2022 at 11:26

Written by aeonnumb on 06.07.2022 at 21:21

You obviously know nothing about me..Also please do not put words in my mouth. Stratovarius have been nowhere near their old glory, in both sales and crowds in their lives (i ve been seeing them live since the mid 90s).
Scores in a site from about 10 people per album, you cannot really call it a representative sample.
If you ask me, the last good album Tolkki did with Strato was Infinite. Elements was meh and the self titled is awful. But still i prefer the elements albums than any of the Kupiainen ones. Damn the Nemesis opener he wrote has the most overplayed 4 chords progression in music ever, which is criminal..

"I really don't understand why this band exists after Tolkki left"
Not putting words in your mouth, you said it.

And are you using the music industry as your means of comparison?! Sales figures? Even Britney Spears' sales figures nose-dived since the '90s; that's an industry issue, not a Stratovarius issue. As for the crowds in their live shows, again, it cannot be compared. Not only because the numbers dropped pretty much everywhere and, more importantly, because back then there where only a handful of bands playing power metal... now there's hundreds. The competition grew exponentially and that divides the crowds.

Are they near their former glory? No, they are not, you're right on that. But they didn't lose quality. Their lowest point was with Tolkki and they are better off without him, I have little doubts about it.

Now, you say 10 people in a site is not a representative sample, well, you're wrong. Those 10 people tell you that 8 out of 10 really like those records. If you grab those numbers and match it with the scores given by the press and you can actually measure the official ratings and the peoples ratings... that's literally how it works. Now, do I agree that it's a small sample? of course, but it's far from useless and, in this type of cases, it works, mainly because we're talking about a big act and everyone has something to say.

As for the 4 chords thing, that's just unimportant. Who cares which chords are used if the song sounds good? Are you saying those 4 chords should not be used ever again because they're in the most used progression in history? Should an artist impose limits to his\hers own vision just because of some arbitrary notion of what should or should not be acceptable? It's amazing how even the chord progressions are being the target of judgement nowadays.

The bottom line is, in the end it's all about taste. You either like it or you don't. Whether the band should continue or not, should be more progressive or more power, should they change the composer or not, that's completely up to them. Your either remain a fan or not. Whichever path you choose is fine, as well as it is also fine if the band finds new people that enjoys their music, which they clearly did just by looking at the numbers.

Cheers

The words in mouth were refering to "masterpiece after masterpiece" you said, where i never said. I do think that the albums from dreamspace to visions are amazing but i never said or implied what you wrote.
We obviously disagree on most things I guess. Sales and attendance on lives is a good indicator when you compare it to the band's past performance. How else can one measure success in the music industry? THere are other measures these days like streams etc. And i completely disagree with regarding live attendance. It absolutely proves they are not in their primes and that is a result of their latest albums.
If you think 10 people are enough to say if an album is good, i rest my case. It is self explanatory.

Again i agree it is a matter of taste. I think they should have stopped after the awful self titled album, and their presence these days is a very good proof of it, in my opinion.

Written by aeonnumb on 07.07.2022 at 20:11

The words in mouth were refering to "masterpiece after masterpiece" you said, where i never said. I do think that the albums from dreamspace to visions are amazing but i never said or implied what you wrote.
We obviously disagree on most things I guess. Sales and attendance on lives is a good indicator when you compare it to the band's past performance. How else can one measure success in the music industry? THere are other measures these days like streams etc. And i completely disagree with regarding live attendance. It absolutely proves they are not in their primes and that is a result of their latest albums.
If you think 10 people are enough to say if an album is good, i rest my case. It is self explanatory.

Again i agree it is a matter of taste. I think they should have stopped after the awful self titled album, and their presence these days is a very good proof of it, in my opinion.

Well, then I didn't put any words in your mouth, nor was I even trying, as I said; "one would think". It means that you didn't say it, just that it looked like that that was your preference. And I said that because you were talking about Tolkki as if he was something that he was not... and he stopped being that "something" when he was still in Stratovarius. You don't like the new dude's composition and prefer the former one, that's ok. We can disagree and still be friends.

Nevertheless, there's something you still don't get; I never said attendance and sales figures are not good indicators, just that you cannot compare the current times with the '90s. There's no comparison possible. No one buys records nowadays and as for the shows, come on, other than the summer festivals the rest is just too small to even count - at least that's the reality in Portugal. If to that you add streams, live dvd's and stuff like that, the need to go to gigs just nose-dived. The bands complain about ways to make money for a reason. More, with more bands, the crowds divided and the need to pay bills and having to pick which shows to go to (and I'm excluding the effects of covid), we can easily figure out why the public on the venues got smaller.

And I've already said it, you're right when you say they are not on their prime. But do you really think that the last records are not good? Then ok, that's your opinion, but that goes against what the general opinion (lead by the press).

And as for the way to measure a group's opinion, yeah, 10 opinions is not a perfect way of measurement but IT IS enough. That's a sample, albeit a small one, but a sample none the less because those 10 actually took their time to write a solid review (most of the times anyway). If 7 out of 10 agree on something you have a majority. If to that you add the notes from the press, the comments and number of likes in the social media, the number of downloads and views on music platforms, then I would say the last 3\4 Stratovarius records had a more than acceptable reception by the public. However, if you're expecting sold out stadiums to see them live I can see your disappointment, but I'm gonna tell you right now, not many metal (or rock) bands nowadays would be able to do sold out a stadium.

Now, you think a band should be over because you didn't like their last records. Ok, again, a valid opinion. I however, looking at the number of people happy and enjoying their recent music I could not disagree more.

Cheers