Swallow The Sun - Originality Or RipOff ?!?!

Just had a dicussion with a few friends on a danish metal forum about this band, one of them claims that they are ripping off what Anathema did on "The Silent Enigma"...What the HE!! is he talking about.

I think they have their own little niche (pretty original) so i cant see what he means...i cant see the resemblance except maybe the atmophere/mood might be alike...but the compositions and the way they play are in my opinion far from each other...And i'm not saying anything bad abot the silent enigma...it's been on my top 10 list ever since the release.

What ya think, is me wrong or is he wrong ?

I think you're wrong

Of course STS is a rip-off. Of course it is not original, last time I saw an original band must have been 15 years ago. Originality doesn't exist in metal anymore (this is no ranting, just a fact). If Azhidahak was here, he'd tell you that some guy said that original bands are those who hide their influences best, which I definitely agree with.

Now, to STS, they are ripping off The Silent Enigma (if you can't see the similarities, listen to The Silent Enigma and imagine it's slowed down a bit and has a more modern production - and you notice that STS is a less complex version of this album), a bit of My Dying Bride for the atmospheres, a bit of about every other doom/death band for the vocals and that's it. Their originality, if they need to have one, is that they kind of mellowed down their doom and made it more melodic so it's accessible to more people. This is no criticism since I really like this band, I even think this is a good thing to finally hear a "non-elitist", easy-listening doom band.

BUT they are in no way original. Just like every young band, they were inspired/ripped off elder, better-established bands. That is normal.

I couldn't care less if StS were a "rip-off" band, they're one of my fave bands and I love both their albums

Written by Deadsoulman on 19.05.2006 at 11:53

I think you're wrong

Of course STS is a rip-off. Of course it is not original, last time I saw an original band must have been 15 years ago. Originality doesn't exist in metal anymore (this is no ranting, just a fact). If Azhidahak was here, he'd tell you that some guy said that original bands are those who hide their influences best, which I definitely agree with.

Now, to STS, they are ripping off The Silent Enigma (if you can't see the similarities, listen to The Silent Enigma and imagine it's slowed down a bit and has a more modern production - and you notice that STS is a less complex version of this album), a bit of My Dying Bride for the atmospheres, a bit of about every other doom/death band for the vocals and that's it. Their originality, if they need to have one, is that they kind of mellowed down their doom and made it more melodic so it's accessible to more people. This is no criticism since I really like this band, I even think this is a good thing to finally hear a "non-elitist", easy-listening doom band.

BUT they are in no way original. Just like every young band, they were inspired/ripped off elder, better-established bands. That is normal.

I mostly agree with DSM although i'd draw a line between inspired/influenced and ripped off. Originality doesn't mean that noone else ever did the same sort of thing before, like said it's absolutely impossible to be truly orginal now a days when everything has been tried and done several times, so only way a band can reach originality is to find their very own way to do all the old riffs, solos and songs again.
Now what comes to Swallow The Sun, I don't think they're totally rip off band, they are atleast trying to add some own touch in old doom recipe and my personal opinion is that they've succeed on it pretty good, of course they're still young band and it will take time to establish their very own sound but i would never ever call them as a rip off band, i mean most certainly they're not just copy/pasting like so many bands now a days.

I bought the first alumb "The Morning Never Came" just to hear it after reading all the hype and I enjoyed it, i grew tired of it quickly but it was a good alumb "Through Her Silver Body" & "Out of This Gloomy Light" being the tracks i enjoyed the most, now i agree that orginaltiy is hard to come and we are all influenced by some one or the other so to me is just antoher Doom Band on the scene and i am happy for that. I honselty found some things on the alumb inovoative (if i may use the word) lol.

In terms of "Ghosts Of Loss" i got it last week and i found they are trying some new things , clean vocals here and there with some Anthema and MDB elements. So change is good.

Hmm in the manner in which I hear music, Swallow The Sun is not a direct rip off of Anathema's "The Silent Enigma," because the production and the smooth arrangements are present in STS's music, whereas in "The Silent Enigma" to created a lot of its greatness from being a bit raw, and at times even abrasive to the ear. I can hear and feel the negativity and disgust in a track like "Restless Oblivion", whereas STS never try for something like this. Perhaps musically there are numerous similiarities, but in terms of atmosphere, I do not feel remotely the same listening to a track like "Out Of This Gloomy Light" after hearing "Restless Oblivion."

But much of my focus in music is derived not just from guitar riffs, but from production and vocals. I do not feel STS are original--but there is an atmosphere that is all their own. To me, finding one's own niche in terms of sound is very important. A "very good band" with a unique atmosphere is 10 times more interesting than a "masterful band" with an overused atmosphere.

I agree that STS are an accessible version of greats like MDB, Anathema, and others. I also hear some atmosphere taken from Graveworm's "As The Angels Reach The Beauty" era (which, in the previous thread about this same subject, I couldn't get anyone to notice or agree for that matter lol). But so what? Their debut is a great disc, their 2nd is nearly as good (though less interesting as the atmosphere and production are so similar that I became bored), and it's is about time to have some doom bands that are accessible to fans like me who grow often tired of "elitist" or whatever type of doom it is that I have not been enjoying all these years. I love "derivative" doom, and make no apologies for it.

It all depends on ones definition of the term rip off. No one is entirely original, and relatively speaking no one can create anything without inspiration.
I think anyway. I do not think swallow the sun are a "rip off", the morning never came and ghosts of loss are both very good albums.

The melodic death/doom/prog genre is so defined, that there are bound to be similarities between different bands.
I admire bands that can effectively create original music, without being afraid to show some of their influences. Swallow The Sun are no exception.

Finally, the melodic death/doom/prog genres are starting to spawn some great new bands
such as Swallow The Sun, Draconian, While Heaven Wept, Mourning Beloveth, and Shape Of Despair etc.
Black Sabbath, Candlemass, Anathema, and My Dying Bride deserve much recognition as pioneers of the genre.

Written by SteTech on 19.05.2006 at 18:26

I couldn't care less if StS were a "rip-off" band, they're one of my fave bands and I love both their albums

I agree with this dude
It dont matter .... if they jam right then just listen to them .... dont study them to get something wrong on them and start complaining like bitches

no offence to anyone

Written by Deadsoulman on 19.05.2006 at 11:53

I think you're wrong

Of course STS is a rip-off. Of course it is not original, last time I saw an original band must have been 15 years ago. Originality doesn't exist in metal anymore (this is no ranting, just a fact).

I don't think so. There is still some originality left out there, though it seems to be taking it's damn sweet time getting here. Something will come along that will blow our minds one day, have patience.

I think bands always show a bit of their influences in their final product and concepts. Swallow the sun is no exception to that. And I love the album by the way. And it did remind me of Anathema's atmosphere, but that just made it better because Anathema is one of my favourite bands.

Tell me dudes some band which doesn't have any influences.They don't need to hide them, we can hear them on the album, anyway it's not possible to invent something new..everybody learns from somebody else..
What can you say about English band Esoteric?/I think you can't classify it as rip-off/DDD
Their music is so addictive in d sence of originality. It's unprecedented

Im not shore I had hera only ''The Morning Never Came'' and Im not shore if thay Anathema ''The Silant Enigma'' i think no because Swallow the sun, thay had diferent influencies, maybe thay are simmilar, but in Finlands couldness people can get influencies from diferent thinks, that I can say all death metal band scoppy cannibal Courpse, Quo Vadis coppy Death and Nocturnus and all bm bands coppy Darkthrone

If StS is a rip-off, than it is from the silent enigma. Right? Thats what I concluded after reading this discussion. But let's face it too; Anathema does no longer sound like on The Silent Enigma. So, fans of that album could listen to StS if they wanted to hear something more or less like it. At least thats my opinion

i just can say that STS is one of my favorite bands, they're good musicians, and as doom metal rules say: "insist that every band is pioneer, even if they sound exactly like any other" or something like that

Some people in this trhead seem to see "unoriginality" as a negative point, which couldn't be more wrong. To say a band is unoriginal is just to say that they don't belong to the 0.000000000000001% of groups whoch can be labelled as "original"... and those selected bands are not necessary good either

I agree with Angelique on this one. There is a big difference between being a rip-off and being inspired/influenced by some other bands. Without going into the differences, I think that Swallow the Sun has a lot of influences from not only Anathema - The Silent Enigma but (like DSM mentioned earlier) also some influences from My Dying Bride and I would also add Katatonia - Dance of December Souls to the list of their influences. So although they are a really boring band without anything new to offer to the doom scene, they are still not a rip-off IMO.

Well, I don't think "boring" is the proper way to describe their music as they're pretty easy-listening (at least "The Morning Never Came, never heard the new one) and the whole album flows like water... but yes I agree that Swallow The Sun are nothing of groundbreaking.

Ages ago I posted a topic about a ballet performance to a Swallow the Sun song, I think it was also mentioned on their website. Anyway, there's a clip below if anyone is interested. Might have already been posted but I havent been around for ages so wouldn't know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L87MlhO-GHM

Generic would probably be a better word than boring. I truly like them though, they are such a pleasant listen.

I just got "Hope" and, while they added close to nothing new to their sound, it's great, and I can't rate it lower or higher than their previous works, it's at the same level. "Don't Fall Asleep" is actually much better in the longer version, by the way. My favourite song is "The Justice Of Suffering". I'm pretty sure no fan will be dissapointed.

In fact i don't care. I listened their music and it seems to be good. What else should i care about?

I think that Swallow The Sun is a great band. I can't really hear the Anathema influence though. And you don't have to be 100% original to sound good

I think you can see the katatonia influence clearly in this new cd. "Hope" is a good album, ive been listening to it and it didnt disappoint me. They maintained their formula and that isnt necessarily a bad thing. They still have good songs and thats what counts for me.

Swallow The Sun is so unique that there is no way they are ripping off Anathema's Silent Enigma or any work of other doom metal band. Of course there must be some influences, but no rip off, come on! The guy who is claiming that Swallow The Sun is ripping off is an absolute loser

Honestly, everyone and anyone can say "this band ripped off another".
If you can compare one band, to any other bands, obviously they aren't original.
I own the 3 StS albums, but if anything, they're copying themself.
I tend to hear too much similarity between riffs, but hey, who am I to say.
They have more money than me.

But definately not Silent Enigma. I've listened to that album countless times, I hear very few similarities.

And who cares if someone is ragging on a band you like? As long as you like them, everything is dandy

is anything original anymore? No because theres very little room for experimentation and there's hundreds of bands out there. Only way a new metal band could possibly be original is being inspired by pop or some other blasphemous genre. Far as i'm concerned, swallow the sun sounds a lot different then other doom metal bands. If the concern of lacking originality should be anywhere, it should be grindcore and death metal.

I agree that StS is rip off, but i also think that even if they are in some way ripping off Anathema or MDB, they are one of the most creative band in whole doom scene, together with Draconian and MDB.

about the question, i don't care , they're an awesome band!

Written by [user id=3047] on 19.05.2006 at 11:32

Swallow The Sun - Originality Or RipOff ?!?!

Just had a dicussion with a few friends on a danish metal forum about this band, one of them claims that they are ripping off what Anathema did on "The Silent Enigma"...What the HE!! is he talking about.

I think they have their own little niche (pretty original) so i cant see what he means...i cant see the resemblance except maybe the atmophere/mood might be alike...but the compositions and the way they play are in my opinion far from each other...And i'm not saying anything bad abot the silent enigma...it's been on my top 10 list ever since the release.

What ya think, is me wrong or is he wrong ?

Im with you,
No Relevant....

well,
I've never heard Anathema, but with Doom Metal how original can you be?
I mean yeah, Opeth are an original off-shoot ov Doom, but shit man!
Swallow The Sun are a good listen for any Doom fan, correct?
So why try to bust their chops as the topic starter is?

Written by [user id=160] on 18.05.2008 at 03:41


Swallow The Sun are a good listen for any Doom fan, correct?

Nope, not for me, I find them a totally yawn inducing overhyped band nowadays. The Morning Never Came I found alright but after that, sigh, totally lacking in all departments for a doom band for me. Way to slick, overproduced, targeted at the angsty teeny girls and boys scene IMO. I always call them a sort of metalcore version of good doom Stylized clothing etc. more outer styling than substance.

And yes, I am a huge doom fan.